Same as Illius. Played to 60 with friends. Then quit. Then came back and switched factions. Leveled 0-70. Quit. Came back and leveled to 80. Quit. Back again, leveling other 60s up to 80 now, lol.
You return to WOW because of all mmorpg's, WOW has the most standard video game mechanics. (tight controls in PvP/PvE, difficulty scaling in boss fights, scores,...)
The other MMO's concentrate too much on using standard mmorpg mechanics. (grinds, fixed grinds, level grinds, time grinds...)
While standard video games don't have the progression cycle and huge playing options of an mmorpg (world, classes, etc).
WOW combines the two worlds. Logical because Blizzard is a video game maker. The others were and are (mmo)rpg creators.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Nope. Because I am not naive enough to let hype mask the fact that Blizzard has progressively removed everything that made WoW great.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
This thread made me laugh . I did find that I always returned no matter how much I swore I would'nt but now so much has changed in terms of ease of gameplay that I can't see myself ever going back now . The straw that broke the camels back for me was the cross server looking for a group system which robbed me of the thing I most enjoyed about WoW , world pvp . Everyones in instances ,arenas or battlegrounds these days . So few bother to quest . I don't think the Cataclysm will change that .
I ve played wow during vanilla times few good months, after TBC few months and after Wotlk came out few months. Alwyas enjoying it. Few days ago i ressubed along with my brother and I can say I am really enjoying playing ally character for first time with my bro sitting next to me as my healer... I have a blast despite the fact i am huge fanboy of sandbox games like EVE or Ryzom even though I HATE END GAME AND GEAR GRINDING.
Wow is really chilling me out after hard day at university and work + its really polished, simple and entertaining. It just fullfill its role in mmo industry imo.
Ah and I really like wow's graphics and artstyle...
edit: yayitsandy thx for correcting me, i meant chilling me out, dont know how stressing out came out of my head ;P
I ve played wow during vanilla times few good months, after TBC few months and after Wotlk came out few months. Alwyas enjoying it. Few days ago i ressubed along with my brother and I can say I am really enjoying playing ally character for first time with my bro sitting next to me as my healer... I have a blast despite the fact i am huge fanboy of sandbox games like EVE or Ryzom even though I HATE END GAME AND GEAR GRINDING. Wow is really stressing me out after hard day at university and work + its really polished, simple and entertaining. It just fullfill its role in mmo industry imo.
Ah and I really like wow's graphics and artstyle...
I think you mean its chilling you out . If it were stressing you out it would be making a hard day at uni worse . I agree it does fullfill a certain niche . WoW unfortunatly is not a game for someone that wants much challenge or submersion in terms of gameplay anymore . This is one reason i wish Blizzard would bring in different server options that offer either a classic wow experiance or a harder gameplay experiance for those of us that wish it . I know a few current players vehemently oppose this idea but I'm sure Blizzard would love to win back the subsribers that have left because of the games ease now .
I would dissagree, if you want challenge there is challenges to be had. only 625 guild world wide have beaten the Lich King on normal 25 man; noone has beaten the heroic version yet. For comparison 27294 have beaten Marrowgar and 6256 have beaten Putricide. For 10 man raids the numbers are respectively 2195 for LK10, 39165 for Marrow10 and 17084 for Putri10. I would claim that the numbers give a clear indication that for anyone not on the very bleeding edge there are quite a few challenges around.
Non raid PvE has never been hard, so it's not worth concidering really. Vanilla PvP was never very challenging, certainly not on par with the higher end of current PvP.
it seems to have become fashionable to claim that the game is easy; though strangely enough very often from people who have no sensible reason to make the claim. I heard it from a chap still stuck in the middle of Ulduar not too long ago. I'm sure there are some top guilds who think it's too easy, but they're very few. Players leaving because "the game is too easy" are mostly just flattering themselves too much.
I play off and on. The only reason I play now is almost like a side job. Got rid of one 80 druid and when my friends and their raiding guild knew I was pretty good with all three spec's I pretty much get raid priority and drops in new ICC if I can use it. But other than that WoW has gotten kind of static for me.
"If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."
I would dissagree, if you want challenge there is challenges to be had. only 625 guild world wide have beaten the Lich King on normal 25 man; noone has beaten the heroic version yet. For comparison 27294 have beaten Marrowgar and 6256 have beaten Putricide. For 10 man raids the numbers are respectively 2195 for LK10, 39165 for Marrow10 and 17084 for Putri10. I would claim that the numbers give a clear indication that for anyone not on the very bleeding edge there are quite a few challenges around. Non raid PvE has never been hard, so it's not worth concidering really. Vanilla PvP was never very challenging, certainly not on par with the higher end of current PvP. it seems to have become fashionable to claim that the game is easy; though strangely enough very often from people who have no sensible reason to make the claim. I heard it from a chap still stuck in the middle of Ulduar not too long ago. I'm sure there are some top guilds who think it's too easy, but they're very few. Players leaving because "the game is too easy" are mostly just flattering themselves too much.
WoW encounters can be challenging, but on a different level than some of us enjoy. I like to be pushed to the limits of my classes abilities. In EQ, after a raid or two, it was easy to pick out the good healers from the bad ones. In WoW, the challenge is less about being great at your class and more about memorizing a complicated script.
After completing most of the LK raids on my Mage and Priest, my son asked me to play his Druid tank when he was sick. He was one of his Guilds few tanks so with him not showing, they would have had to cancel the raid. I had never tanked in a WoW raid and I had never played a Druid, but because I knew the script each boss would follow, we cleared the place with only one wipe and that was from our only Paly being disconnected at the beginning of a pull.
So WoW raiding might be challenging and fun for some people, if you consider learning a complicated script fun, but there is little to no challenge at all in WoW classes. Obviously PvP is a different matter, but for PvE, it does not take much effort to be 'good enough' with a class to raid effectively.
I would dissagree, if you want challenge there is challenges to be had. only 625 guild world wide have beaten the Lich King on normal 25 man; noone has beaten the heroic version yet. For comparison 27294 have beaten Marrowgar and 6256 have beaten Putricide. For 10 man raids the numbers are respectively 2195 for LK10, 39165 for Marrow10 and 17084 for Putri10. I would claim that the numbers give a clear indication that for anyone not on the very bleeding edge there are quite a few challenges around. Non raid PvE has never been hard, so it's not worth concidering really. Vanilla PvP was never very challenging, certainly not on par with the higher end of current PvP. it seems to have become fashionable to claim that the game is easy; though strangely enough very often from people who have no sensible reason to make the claim. I heard it from a chap still stuck in the middle of Ulduar not too long ago. I'm sure there are some top guilds who think it's too easy, but they're very few. Players leaving because "the game is too easy" are mostly just flattering themselves too much.
So true.
The raids these days tend to have 4 different difficulty settings (ever since ToTC) 10 man normal - 25 man normal - 10 man heroic - 25 man heroic.
These settings are based on playing techniques and the highest gear requirements. To beat 25 heroic ToTC and ICC everything has to be perfect. The slightest hic up is a whipe.
The ones above saying it is easy are talking about Raids 3 steps down on normal mode with 4 levels higher mode gear. That's not challenge seeking, that is just boasting you can kick against a ball without playing football.
Most Raiding guilds that got the content down in TBC just before the newer patch are now hanging in there between 25 normal and 10 heroic. Very few advance decently in 25 heroic.
If you talk about "hard" and want to mention the monthly long timesinks you needed to put into Vanilla WOW to just enter old Nax, than you are right. But let's see : grinding out reputations for weeks just to enter a dungeon or a Raid has nothing to do with being "hard" video game wise.
Also the new LFG tool did not end the world adventures at all. In fact stating this now is very strange (first the Love festival and now the Moon hollidays). For weeks players have been visiting all the world places to get the achievements and awards done.
If you want world pvp: easy these days: you just stealth around a common "Elders" site (about 200 or so world wide) and you can get your world pvp in no time on a pvp server.
Some of these elders lay right into or in front of the capitols of the opposing factions.
Two times a bad example of someone who no longer plays... He should be returning really.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I left after getting geared out from Naxx January 2009. I then went back after the Trials of the Champions instance/raid was release to catch back up so I can raid the Lich King, but the community just turned me off to raiding. The community is overly obsessive. They want to raid several hours at once, instead of breaking it up into smaller chunks to be done through out the week. I didn't have to worry about this next issue I have, since I had a good guild, but many people here complain that the community has gotten so snobby that they won't invite you into a raid group unless you have a certain set of Achievements, and are already overly geared for the content you're facing. For the overly gear part, it's sort of like people wanting you to have all the best blues and purples you could get from 5 man instances and Heroics when Naxx was the only raid, when the developers specifically said numerous amounts of times that Naxx was designed for a brand new 80 to walk right in and do fine.
So this type of behavior from the community has driven me away from raiding. If I'm not going to raid, then why am I going to resub to WoW. Why resub to WoW later, knowing that I'm several raids behind? You see, every month that goes by without me returning only ensures that I'll never return, since every month that goes by, the less likely it is that I'll find a guild who's about to start Ulduar.
Other than the raids, the rest of the game offers nothing that I've not done before or am interested in. When Cataclysm releases, I was going to resub, but now I likely won't. I've played every class to death, so leveling to see the new content will just leave me bored from playing the same class again. The new races being introduced aren't that interesting. I'm big on my looks, so I don't want to play a dog that walks on two legs, or a little gremlin. I like playing Humans or Elves. So while the content may be new from 1-60 when the expansion releases, it won't be good enough to make rerolling a class I've already played worth doing when there's other MMORPG's out there I can play.
I'm currently playing STO and I'm having a lot of fun. There's other MMO's and single player games coming out this year that'll keep me busy until Star Wars comes out next year, so I don't need to check out WoW, knowing that I'll just end up disappointed.
I haven't had the game installed in over a year, but lately I've been thinking about the times I enjoyed in game. You forget all the boring times after a while I suppose.
Make no mistake, I have fond memories of playing WoW. However, I'm experienced enough in this genre (from trial and error) to know that going back won't guarantee more fond memories. Once you've done something or played something to death, it just won't be the same there after. Sometimes it's just wiser to move on and cherish the memories you do have. My first MMO was DAoC, and I finally let that game go for good last year. So I know how tough it is to let a game go, and how much fond memories keep drawing you back when you think you're done for good.
I left after getting geared out from Naxx January 2009. I then went back after the Trials of the Champions instance/raid was release to catch back up so I can raid the Lich King, but the community just turned me off to raiding. The community is overly obsessive. They want to raid several hours at once, instead of breaking it up into smaller chunks to be done through out the week. I didn't have to worry about this next issue I have, since I had a good guild, but many people here complain that the community has gotten so snobby that they won't invite you into a raid group unless you have a certain set of Achievements, and are already overly geared for the content you're facing. For the overly gear part, it's sort of like people wanting you to have all the best blues and purples you could get from 5 man instances and Heroics when Naxx was the only raid, when the developers specifically said numerous amounts of times that Naxx was designed for a brand new 80 to walk right in and do fine. So this type of behavior from the community has driven me away from raiding. If I'm not going to raid, then why am I going to resub to WoW. Why resub to WoW later, knowing that I'm several raids behind? You see, every month that goes by without me returning only ensures that I'll never return, since every month that goes by, the less likely it is that I'll find a guild who's about to start Ulduar. Other than the raids, the rest of the game offers nothing that I've not done before or am interested in. When Cataclysm releases, I was going to resub, but now I likely won't. I've played every class to death, so leveling to see the new content will just leave me bored from playing the same class again. The new races being introduced aren't that interesting. I'm big on my looks, so I don't want to play a dog that walks on two legs, or a little gremlin. I like playing Humans or Elves. So while the content may be new from 1-60 when the expansion releases, it won't be good enough to make rerolling a class I've already played worth doing when there's other MMORPG's out there I can play. I'm currently playing STO and I'm having a lot of fun. There's other MMO's and single player games coming out this year that'll keep me busy until Star Wars comes out next year, so I don't need to check out WoW, knowing that I'll just end up disappointed.
Already your post proves you missed out on the gearing up from the new LFG system. Gearing 80 alts is peanuts these days: they did that to widen the exprience.
These mechanics changed and so you are talking about the old old old. Yes I know sometimes even 4 months is enough to refer to mechanics that changed already.
The same with the PvP: the new LFG tool for BG's is now already being used on the PTR and yes Arena gear is already out for the BG's as we speak.
That's the difference: it changes all over all of the time. Btw: classes are changed all over in CATA as are the end game leveling (Path of Titans), guild leveling and PvP competitions.
So I don't see the use of referring to old class mechanics and leveling systems which change.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
WoW encounters can be challenging, but on a different level than some of us enjoy. I like to be pushed to the limits of my classes abilities. In EQ, after a raid or two, it was easy to pick out the good healers from the bad ones. In WoW, the challenge is less about being great at your class and more about memorizing a complicated script.
After completing most of the LK raids on my Mage and Priest, my son asked me to play his Druid tank when he was sick. He was one of his Guilds few tanks so with him not showing, they would have had to cancel the raid. I had never tanked in a WoW raid and I had never played a Druid, but because I knew the script each boss would follow, we cleared the place with only one wipe and that was from our only Paly being disconnected at the beginning of a pull.
So WoW raiding might be challenging and fun for some people, if you consider learning a complicated script fun, but there is little to no challenge at all in WoW classes. Obviously PvP is a different matter, but for PvE, it does not take much effort to be 'good enough' with a class to raid effectively.
You can't tell the difference between a good and a bad healer? I find that hard to belive. "Memorizing a script" only gets you so far, I've seen plenty of players who know the script, but still fall short. Frankly I'm still baffeled that you can't tell the diffrence between a good and a bad player? I have no problem doing so what so ever.
So I guess the question is, what content did you do? Seeing as you don't say and that leaves me non the wiser. Are we talking Naxx or are we talking firefighter here?
Originally posted by pencilrick There once was a man who lived on a remote farm. He had an ugly wife and some farm animals. Once in awhile, he would grow disgusted with his wife and leave her. And every time he swore, he returned to .... his wife (not the farm animals; didn't sink that low). Morale of story: Returning to an ugly wife time and time again does not prove she is beautiful. WOW is still popular because there just isn't anything thing out there right now. Watch when FF XIV or EQ Next releases. In fact, I predict EQ Next will seize the MMO crown and Sony will be on top once again.
While I think your story isn't exactly correct I agree that wow dominates, because the market is filled with mediocre games.
However I am curious what gives you such hope that soe will do exceptionally well with the rumored EQ Next?
I can't even remember the last time soe has done anything that made me think they understood fun gameplay or even valued it over the direction they have been pushing all their games.
I am willing to bet the EQ Next (if it even exists) will turn out to be just another shallow game in the same mold as free realms with a bunch of shitty minigames tacked onto the most basic framework of what an mmo is.
It isn't like soe did a good job with the eq title on its sequel, so I doubt they will somehow get connected to exceptional gameplay on the third try.
Final fantasy looks really impressive, but we have all been down that road before with other mmos and I am not putting high expectations on any unreleased mmos.
So why am I thinking about returning to take part in the next expansion? I have no doubt that this next trip into Azeroth will be a short one, but something is drawing me to grab the expansion and play it again. Maybe it's that wish to return to Vanilla WoW when everything was new and the game wasn't reduced to bar graphs and data charts to get the best dps. Either way, I think I'll enjoy the expansion and running through the content once. I'm just hoping I can do so off the free month that comes with the expansion! Anyone else have this feeling?
While Cat will probably be the best medicine for the bit I highlighted above, a game can only be new, once.
Just like with MMO's in general; the genre can only be new, once. I just wish more folks understood how nostalgia can fog your hindsight and make you cynical of the present.
I think I played WoW at the beginning of 2005, before any of the expansions, where I played for about 3 months then quit; I enjoyed it, but it just got a bit too tedious after awhile. Seemed like gameplay didn't offer many new surprises as you leveled other than bigger shoulder pads and glowy-er weapons.
I'm tempted to resub again just before Cat and run a new character, then get Cat and see the difference. That is saying something because I haven't really been interested in going back to WoW in 5 years.
Originally posted by Robsolf Just like with MMO's in general; the genre can only be new, once. I just wish more folks understood how nostalgia can fog your hindsight and make you cynical of the present.
WoW encounters can be challenging, but on a different level than some of us enjoy. I like to be pushed to the limits of my classes abilities. In EQ, after a raid or two, it was easy to pick out the good healers from the bad ones. In WoW, the challenge is less about being great at your class and more about memorizing a complicated script.
After completing most of the LK raids on my Mage and Priest, my son asked me to play his Druid tank when he was sick. He was one of his Guilds few tanks so with him not showing, they would have had to cancel the raid. I had never tanked in a WoW raid and I had never played a Druid, but because I knew the script each boss would follow, we cleared the place with only one wipe and that was from our only Paly being disconnected at the beginning of a pull.
So WoW raiding might be challenging and fun for some people, if you consider learning a complicated script fun, but there is little to no challenge at all in WoW classes. Obviously PvP is a different matter, but for PvE, it does not take much effort to be 'good enough' with a class to raid effectively.
You can't tell the difference between a good and a bad healer? I find that hard to belive. "Memorizing a script" only gets you so far, I've seen plenty of players who know the script, but still fall short. Frankly I'm still baffeled that you can't tell the diffrence between a good and a bad player? I have no problem doing so what so ever.
So I guess the question is, what content did you do? Seeing as you don't say and that leaves me non the wiser. Are we talking Naxx or are we talking firefighter here?
I never said I cant tell the difference, please dont try to twist what I said. I said it was easier, not impossible. We left last summer when Ulduar was the end game, just before ToC was released. Oh how I love the smell of Saronite in the Morning!
If I can jump into a raid on a character/class/role I've never played before and tank XT or Yogg, is knowing the class that important? I believe having the proper gear and knowing the script is far more important in WoW than player skill which to me was just not fun. As I said before, some people might enjoy it, I just dont find it fun.
I left after getting geared out from Naxx January 2009. I then went back after the Trials of the Champions instance/raid was release to catch back up so I can raid the Lich King, but the community just turned me off to raiding. The community is overly obsessive. They want to raid several hours at once, instead of breaking it up into smaller chunks to be done through out the week. I didn't have to worry about this next issue I have, since I had a good guild, but many people here complain that the community has gotten so snobby that they won't invite you into a raid group unless you have a certain set of Achievements, and are already overly geared for the content you're facing. For the overly gear part, it's sort of like people wanting you to have all the best blues and purples you could get from 5 man instances and Heroics when Naxx was the only raid, when the developers specifically said numerous amounts of times that Naxx was designed for a brand new 80 to walk right in and do fine. So this type of behavior from the community has driven me away from raiding. If I'm not going to raid, then why am I going to resub to WoW. Why resub to WoW later, knowing that I'm several raids behind? You see, every month that goes by without me returning only ensures that I'll never return, since every month that goes by, the less likely it is that I'll find a guild who's about to start Ulduar. Other than the raids, the rest of the game offers nothing that I've not done before or am interested in. When Cataclysm releases, I was going to resub, but now I likely won't. I've played every class to death, so leveling to see the new content will just leave me bored from playing the same class again. The new races being introduced aren't that interesting. I'm big on my looks, so I don't want to play a dog that walks on two legs, or a little gremlin. I like playing Humans or Elves. So while the content may be new from 1-60 when the expansion releases, it won't be good enough to make rerolling a class I've already played worth doing when there's other MMORPG's out there I can play. I'm currently playing STO and I'm having a lot of fun. There's other MMO's and single player games coming out this year that'll keep me busy until Star Wars comes out next year, so I don't need to check out WoW, knowing that I'll just end up disappointed.
Already your post proves you missed out on the gearing up from the new LFG system. Gearing 80 alts is peanuts these days: they did that to widen the exprience.
These mechanics changed and so you are talking about the old old old. Yes I know sometimes even 4 months is enough to refer to mechanics that changed already.
The same with the PvP: the new LFG tool for BG's is now already being used on the PTR and yes Arena gear is already out for the BG's as we speak.
That's the difference: it changes all over all of the time. Btw: classes are changed all over in CATA as are the end game leveling (Path of Titans), guild leveling and PvP competitions.
So I don't see the use of referring to old class mechanics and leveling systems which change.
1. You're right, I haven't gone back since the new LFG system has been implemented. As you said though, it's mainly used to gear up. Having 5 people thrown together in an instance does not build the strong community ties I'm looking for. Most community members care about getting the best gear at the cost of all else. I don't care about having the best gear, I just want to play all of the content. I just happen to get the best gear in the process. You see, that's where the majority of people who play WoW and I part ways. They care only what your gear score is, what achievements you have, or whatever, while I care more about who is playing that character. That mindset is what drove me away from the game and the mindset that will ensure that I'll never return. Niether you or any other WoW player need feel a loss for my absence, because there's plenty of people who have the same goals as the majority and I for one am happy playing the latest MMO's.
2. For me, a game must capture me the first time I start playing it and do everything to keep me subscribing. The community must also be cohesive and strong, like SWG's, EQ's, UO's, and DAoC's community was. Otherwise, when I do all there's to do, I leave and only return when there's more stuff to do. The problem with WOW is that when I went back to do the new content that released, I found that the community became more snobbish, elitist, and the hours required by typical guilds per raid session was rediculous. So I left again without ever catching up on content. So if I wasn't willing to do what it'd take to do the content the last time I resubbed, what makes you think I'd be willing to do it now? From what I've seen and read on the forums, the community has only gotten more snobbish and elitist since I left. Luckily, the last time I played people didn't treat me that way, but I seen people treat others that way and it made me sick. Luckily I had a decent guild with people I knew through others. However, they wanted to raid in the middle of the night. I'm sick and tired of playing with people with unhealthy gaming habits and the majority of the people I've encountered that raided in WoW had the same unhealthy gaming habits. They wanted to raid 4 - 6 hours straight, sometimes in the middle of the night, sometimes on a weekend which is prime-time for family time. WoW is set up to be able to be played in 1-3 hour stints. You have an entire week to finish a raid, yet I've yet to meet a guild that actually took advantage of that. Instead of raiding for 1-2 hours 2-3 times a week, they do the whole raid in one night.
So it really isn't WoW that's the problem, but the community. I refuse to play with others who instead of taking advantage of a real life friendly mechanic, they instead continue with unhealthy gaming habits in order to finish things faster. I'm not in my early 20's anymore. I can't stand sitting in one spot for 4-6 hours anymore, pressing a select amount of keys. It's very boring, makes my back hurt, and my family unhappy. Such is life, so I now play games that cater to people who want to play in 1-3 hour stints and which has a community who plays like-wise.
WoW encounters can be challenging, but on a different level than some of us enjoy. I like to be pushed to the limits of my classes abilities. In EQ, after a raid or two, it was easy to pick out the good healers from the bad ones. In WoW, the challenge is less about being great at your class and more about memorizing a complicated script.
After completing most of the LK raids on my Mage and Priest, my son asked me to play his Druid tank when he was sick. He was one of his Guilds few tanks so with him not showing, they would have had to cancel the raid. I had never tanked in a WoW raid and I had never played a Druid, but because I knew the script each boss would follow, we cleared the place with only one wipe and that was from our only Paly being disconnected at the beginning of a pull.
So WoW raiding might be challenging and fun for some people, if you consider learning a complicated script fun, but there is little to no challenge at all in WoW classes. Obviously PvP is a different matter, but for PvE, it does not take much effort to be 'good enough' with a class to raid effectively.
...
I never said I cant tell the difference, please dont try to twist what I said. I said it was easier, not impossible. We left last summer when Ulduar was the end game, just before ToC was released. Oh how I love the smell of Saronite in the Morning!
If I can jump into a raid on a character/class/role I've never played before and tank XT or Yogg, is knowing the class that important? I believe having the proper gear and knowing the script is far more important in WoW than player skill which to me was just not fun. As I said before, some people might enjoy it, I just dont find it fun.
You implied it very clearly, I see little reason to go back on that. I will simply state that there is a very distinct diffrence between someone who plays their class well and someone who doesn't. I've seen it too many times not to. Player skill is quite distinct and you will not get far if your raiders lack it. Some things are interchangeable between classes, some are quite spesiffic. I certainly have seen good players struggle to play effectively when switching classes; though some adapt faster than others.
I do suspect that we define "raid effectively" somewhat diffrently and I suspect you haven't done alot of the harder stuff; though feel free to disprove that one if I'm wrong.
Comments
Been wow free for a year and a half, when I need a fall back game I go back to EQ1. The game just got boring for me.
Same as Illius. Played to 60 with friends. Then quit. Then came back and switched factions. Leveled 0-70. Quit. Came back and leveled to 80. Quit. Back again, leveling other 60s up to 80 now, lol.
Why do I hate me?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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World of Warcraft is like a drug! Not the addicting kind, but the kind that kills your braincells.
You return to WOW because of all mmorpg's, WOW has the most standard video game mechanics. (tight controls in PvP/PvE, difficulty scaling in boss fights, scores,...)
The other MMO's concentrate too much on using standard mmorpg mechanics. (grinds, fixed grinds, level grinds, time grinds...)
While standard video games don't have the progression cycle and huge playing options of an mmorpg (world, classes, etc).
WOW combines the two worlds. Logical because Blizzard is a video game maker. The others were and are (mmo)rpg creators.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Same here. : )
Nope. Because I am not naive enough to let hype mask the fact that Blizzard has progressively removed everything that made WoW great.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
This thread made me laugh . I did find that I always returned no matter how much I swore I would'nt but now so much has changed in terms of ease of gameplay that I can't see myself ever going back now . The straw that broke the camels back for me was the cross server looking for a group system which robbed me of the thing I most enjoyed about WoW , world pvp . Everyones in instances ,arenas or battlegrounds these days . So few bother to quest . I don't think the Cataclysm will change that .
I ve played wow during vanilla times few good months, after TBC few months and after Wotlk came out few months. Alwyas enjoying it. Few days ago i ressubed along with my brother and I can say I am really enjoying playing ally character for first time with my bro sitting next to me as my healer... I have a blast despite the fact i am huge fanboy of sandbox games like EVE or Ryzom even though I HATE END GAME AND GEAR GRINDING.
Wow is really chilling me out after hard day at university and work + its really polished, simple and entertaining. It just fullfill its role in mmo industry imo.
Ah and I really like wow's graphics and artstyle...
edit: yayitsandy thx for correcting me, i meant chilling me out, dont know how stressing out came out of my head ;P
Sorry for my eanglish.
I think you mean its chilling you out . If it were stressing you out it would be making a hard day at uni worse . I agree it does fullfill a certain niche . WoW unfortunatly is not a game for someone that wants much challenge or submersion in terms of gameplay anymore . This is one reason i wish Blizzard would bring in different server options that offer either a classic wow experiance or a harder gameplay experiance for those of us that wish it . I know a few current players vehemently oppose this idea but I'm sure Blizzard would love to win back the subsribers that have left because of the games ease now .
I would dissagree, if you want challenge there is challenges to be had. only 625 guild world wide have beaten the Lich King on normal 25 man; noone has beaten the heroic version yet. For comparison 27294 have beaten Marrowgar and 6256 have beaten Putricide. For 10 man raids the numbers are respectively 2195 for LK10, 39165 for Marrow10 and 17084 for Putri10. I would claim that the numbers give a clear indication that for anyone not on the very bleeding edge there are quite a few challenges around.
Non raid PvE has never been hard, so it's not worth concidering really. Vanilla PvP was never very challenging, certainly not on par with the higher end of current PvP.
it seems to have become fashionable to claim that the game is easy; though strangely enough very often from people who have no sensible reason to make the claim. I heard it from a chap still stuck in the middle of Ulduar not too long ago. I'm sure there are some top guilds who think it's too easy, but they're very few. Players leaving because "the game is too easy" are mostly just flattering themselves too much.
Same here. : )
Ooooh same here too :-) I Think at this rate I'll still be playing until they close the final server :-P
I play off and on. The only reason I play now is almost like a side job. Got rid of one 80 druid and when my friends and their raiding guild knew I was pretty good with all three spec's I pretty much get raid priority and drops in new ICC if I can use it. But other than that WoW has gotten kind of static for me.
WoW encounters can be challenging, but on a different level than some of us enjoy. I like to be pushed to the limits of my classes abilities. In EQ, after a raid or two, it was easy to pick out the good healers from the bad ones. In WoW, the challenge is less about being great at your class and more about memorizing a complicated script.
After completing most of the LK raids on my Mage and Priest, my son asked me to play his Druid tank when he was sick. He was one of his Guilds few tanks so with him not showing, they would have had to cancel the raid. I had never tanked in a WoW raid and I had never played a Druid, but because I knew the script each boss would follow, we cleared the place with only one wipe and that was from our only Paly being disconnected at the beginning of a pull.
So WoW raiding might be challenging and fun for some people, if you consider learning a complicated script fun, but there is little to no challenge at all in WoW classes. Obviously PvP is a different matter, but for PvE, it does not take much effort to be 'good enough' with a class to raid effectively.
So true.
The raids these days tend to have 4 different difficulty settings (ever since ToTC) 10 man normal - 25 man normal - 10 man heroic - 25 man heroic.
These settings are based on playing techniques and the highest gear requirements. To beat 25 heroic ToTC and ICC everything has to be perfect. The slightest hic up is a whipe.
The ones above saying it is easy are talking about Raids 3 steps down on normal mode with 4 levels higher mode gear. That's not challenge seeking, that is just boasting you can kick against a ball without playing football.
Most Raiding guilds that got the content down in TBC just before the newer patch are now hanging in there between 25 normal and 10 heroic. Very few advance decently in 25 heroic.
If you talk about "hard" and want to mention the monthly long timesinks you needed to put into Vanilla WOW to just enter old Nax, than you are right. But let's see : grinding out reputations for weeks just to enter a dungeon or a Raid has nothing to do with being "hard" video game wise.
Also the new LFG tool did not end the world adventures at all. In fact stating this now is very strange (first the Love festival and now the Moon hollidays). For weeks players have been visiting all the world places to get the achievements and awards done.
If you want world pvp: easy these days: you just stealth around a common "Elders" site (about 200 or so world wide) and you can get your world pvp in no time on a pvp server.
Some of these elders lay right into or in front of the capitols of the opposing factions.
Two times a bad example of someone who no longer plays... He should be returning really.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I left after getting geared out from Naxx January 2009. I then went back after the Trials of the Champions instance/raid was release to catch back up so I can raid the Lich King, but the community just turned me off to raiding. The community is overly obsessive. They want to raid several hours at once, instead of breaking it up into smaller chunks to be done through out the week. I didn't have to worry about this next issue I have, since I had a good guild, but many people here complain that the community has gotten so snobby that they won't invite you into a raid group unless you have a certain set of Achievements, and are already overly geared for the content you're facing. For the overly gear part, it's sort of like people wanting you to have all the best blues and purples you could get from 5 man instances and Heroics when Naxx was the only raid, when the developers specifically said numerous amounts of times that Naxx was designed for a brand new 80 to walk right in and do fine.
So this type of behavior from the community has driven me away from raiding. If I'm not going to raid, then why am I going to resub to WoW. Why resub to WoW later, knowing that I'm several raids behind? You see, every month that goes by without me returning only ensures that I'll never return, since every month that goes by, the less likely it is that I'll find a guild who's about to start Ulduar.
Other than the raids, the rest of the game offers nothing that I've not done before or am interested in. When Cataclysm releases, I was going to resub, but now I likely won't. I've played every class to death, so leveling to see the new content will just leave me bored from playing the same class again. The new races being introduced aren't that interesting. I'm big on my looks, so I don't want to play a dog that walks on two legs, or a little gremlin. I like playing Humans or Elves. So while the content may be new from 1-60 when the expansion releases, it won't be good enough to make rerolling a class I've already played worth doing when there's other MMORPG's out there I can play.
I'm currently playing STO and I'm having a lot of fun. There's other MMO's and single player games coming out this year that'll keep me busy until Star Wars comes out next year, so I don't need to check out WoW, knowing that I'll just end up disappointed.
Make no mistake, I have fond memories of playing WoW. However, I'm experienced enough in this genre (from trial and error) to know that going back won't guarantee more fond memories. Once you've done something or played something to death, it just won't be the same there after. Sometimes it's just wiser to move on and cherish the memories you do have. My first MMO was DAoC, and I finally let that game go for good last year. So I know how tough it is to let a game go, and how much fond memories keep drawing you back when you think you're done for good.
Already your post proves you missed out on the gearing up from the new LFG system. Gearing 80 alts is peanuts these days: they did that to widen the exprience.
These mechanics changed and so you are talking about the old old old. Yes I know sometimes even 4 months is enough to refer to mechanics that changed already.
The same with the PvP: the new LFG tool for BG's is now already being used on the PTR and yes Arena gear is already out for the BG's as we speak.
That's the difference: it changes all over all of the time. Btw: classes are changed all over in CATA as are the end game leveling (Path of Titans), guild leveling and PvP competitions.
So I don't see the use of referring to old class mechanics and leveling systems which change.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You can't tell the difference between a good and a bad healer? I find that hard to belive. "Memorizing a script" only gets you so far, I've seen plenty of players who know the script, but still fall short. Frankly I'm still baffeled that you can't tell the diffrence between a good and a bad player? I have no problem doing so what so ever.
So I guess the question is, what content did you do? Seeing as you don't say and that leaves me non the wiser. Are we talking Naxx or are we talking firefighter here?
If you can't tell the difference between a good and bad player its not a big deal. It just means you belong to the latter group.
While I think your story isn't exactly correct I agree that wow dominates, because the market is filled with mediocre games.
However I am curious what gives you such hope that soe will do exceptionally well with the rumored EQ Next?
I can't even remember the last time soe has done anything that made me think they understood fun gameplay or even valued it over the direction they have been pushing all their games.
I am willing to bet the EQ Next (if it even exists) will turn out to be just another shallow game in the same mold as free realms with a bunch of shitty minigames tacked onto the most basic framework of what an mmo is.
It isn't like soe did a good job with the eq title on its sequel, so I doubt they will somehow get connected to exceptional gameplay on the third try.
Final fantasy looks really impressive, but we have all been down that road before with other mmos and I am not putting high expectations on any unreleased mmos.
While Cat will probably be the best medicine for the bit I highlighted above, a game can only be new, once.
Just like with MMO's in general; the genre can only be new, once. I just wish more folks understood how nostalgia can fog your hindsight and make you cynical of the present.
I think I played WoW at the beginning of 2005, before any of the expansions, where I played for about 3 months then quit; I enjoyed it, but it just got a bit too tedious after awhile. Seemed like gameplay didn't offer many new surprises as you leveled other than bigger shoulder pads and glowy-er weapons.
I'm tempted to resub again just before Cat and run a new character, then get Cat and see the difference. That is saying something because I haven't really been interested in going back to WoW in 5 years.
So much truth here.
You can't tell the difference between a good and a bad healer? I find that hard to belive. "Memorizing a script" only gets you so far, I've seen plenty of players who know the script, but still fall short. Frankly I'm still baffeled that you can't tell the diffrence between a good and a bad player? I have no problem doing so what so ever.
So I guess the question is, what content did you do? Seeing as you don't say and that leaves me non the wiser. Are we talking Naxx or are we talking firefighter here?
I never said I cant tell the difference, please dont try to twist what I said. I said it was easier, not impossible. We left last summer when Ulduar was the end game, just before ToC was released. Oh how I love the smell of Saronite in the Morning!
If I can jump into a raid on a character/class/role I've never played before and tank XT or Yogg, is knowing the class that important? I believe having the proper gear and knowing the script is far more important in WoW than player skill which to me was just not fun. As I said before, some people might enjoy it, I just dont find it fun.
Already your post proves you missed out on the gearing up from the new LFG system. Gearing 80 alts is peanuts these days: they did that to widen the exprience.
These mechanics changed and so you are talking about the old old old. Yes I know sometimes even 4 months is enough to refer to mechanics that changed already.
The same with the PvP: the new LFG tool for BG's is now already being used on the PTR and yes Arena gear is already out for the BG's as we speak.
That's the difference: it changes all over all of the time. Btw: classes are changed all over in CATA as are the end game leveling (Path of Titans), guild leveling and PvP competitions.
So I don't see the use of referring to old class mechanics and leveling systems which change.
1. You're right, I haven't gone back since the new LFG system has been implemented. As you said though, it's mainly used to gear up. Having 5 people thrown together in an instance does not build the strong community ties I'm looking for. Most community members care about getting the best gear at the cost of all else. I don't care about having the best gear, I just want to play all of the content. I just happen to get the best gear in the process. You see, that's where the majority of people who play WoW and I part ways. They care only what your gear score is, what achievements you have, or whatever, while I care more about who is playing that character. That mindset is what drove me away from the game and the mindset that will ensure that I'll never return. Niether you or any other WoW player need feel a loss for my absence, because there's plenty of people who have the same goals as the majority and I for one am happy playing the latest MMO's.
2. For me, a game must capture me the first time I start playing it and do everything to keep me subscribing. The community must also be cohesive and strong, like SWG's, EQ's, UO's, and DAoC's community was. Otherwise, when I do all there's to do, I leave and only return when there's more stuff to do. The problem with WOW is that when I went back to do the new content that released, I found that the community became more snobbish, elitist, and the hours required by typical guilds per raid session was rediculous. So I left again without ever catching up on content. So if I wasn't willing to do what it'd take to do the content the last time I resubbed, what makes you think I'd be willing to do it now? From what I've seen and read on the forums, the community has only gotten more snobbish and elitist since I left. Luckily, the last time I played people didn't treat me that way, but I seen people treat others that way and it made me sick. Luckily I had a decent guild with people I knew through others. However, they wanted to raid in the middle of the night. I'm sick and tired of playing with people with unhealthy gaming habits and the majority of the people I've encountered that raided in WoW had the same unhealthy gaming habits. They wanted to raid 4 - 6 hours straight, sometimes in the middle of the night, sometimes on a weekend which is prime-time for family time. WoW is set up to be able to be played in 1-3 hour stints. You have an entire week to finish a raid, yet I've yet to meet a guild that actually took advantage of that. Instead of raiding for 1-2 hours 2-3 times a week, they do the whole raid in one night.
So it really isn't WoW that's the problem, but the community. I refuse to play with others who instead of taking advantage of a real life friendly mechanic, they instead continue with unhealthy gaming habits in order to finish things faster. I'm not in my early 20's anymore. I can't stand sitting in one spot for 4-6 hours anymore, pressing a select amount of keys. It's very boring, makes my back hurt, and my family unhappy. Such is life, so I now play games that cater to people who want to play in 1-3 hour stints and which has a community who plays like-wise.
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I never said I cant tell the difference, please dont try to twist what I said. I said it was easier, not impossible. We left last summer when Ulduar was the end game, just before ToC was released. Oh how I love the smell of Saronite in the Morning!
If I can jump into a raid on a character/class/role I've never played before and tank XT or Yogg, is knowing the class that important? I believe having the proper gear and knowing the script is far more important in WoW than player skill which to me was just not fun. As I said before, some people might enjoy it, I just dont find it fun.
You implied it very clearly, I see little reason to go back on that. I will simply state that there is a very distinct diffrence between someone who plays their class well and someone who doesn't. I've seen it too many times not to. Player skill is quite distinct and you will not get far if your raiders lack it. Some things are interchangeable between classes, some are quite spesiffic. I certainly have seen good players struggle to play effectively when switching classes; though some adapt faster than others.
I do suspect that we define "raid effectively" somewhat diffrently and I suspect you haven't done alot of the harder stuff; though feel free to disprove that one if I'm wrong.