STO, MO and Allods train-wrecks all recently occurred, STO and Allods are deserving of the negativity imo, MO i haven't followed though and can't really comment on, but i tend to believe the posters, especially those that had high hopes then flipped over to the dark side. That's three train wrecks in a month or two, which i don't remember happening before, and as such there will be more than normal level of fire and fury. Currently it seems gamers are viewed as an inexhaustible cash cow who will pay for anything. Maybe companies should remember, they are trying to sell us fun.
STO, ok that's a trainwreck, but the other two are more like fender benders. They aren't good, but got hardly enough press to be considered a trainwreck (unless you're talking about the magnitude of problems with them). But what about WAR or Champions online? Both extremely hyped games that fell flat, and hard. Those are the games I think about when I think about why the community is angry. But STO is undoubtedly in that catagory. I have a feeling DC Universe online will be too (or whatever it's called).
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
Whether you realize it or not, the market place is a competition.
People like to play MMORPGs. It is the most complex computer game designed to date. By complex, I mean what it takes to make an MMORPG, the server, the client, the content. That is why it costs millions of dollars to make an MMORPG, because of the complexity, and because of how labor intensive it is to make all those models and graphics.
So making an MMORPG requires large amounts of capital. And there is only so much capital to go around.
If I like a good grouping game, and you hate good grouping games because you only like solo games, then we're asking for two different things.
A dev can't put both of those things in the same game. They have to choose one. Naturally people want them to choose the one they like, so they can have a good game to play.
Right now if you like solo friendly, quest grinding, no real PvP that impacts the world, fast leveling, themepark games, you're set. You can play WoW, LotRO, Aion, Warhammer, and all those asian grinder F2P games as well (as long as you spend some money in the cash shop).
but if you're looking for something else, there's not much out there. So people are yelling. Hey! I"m here, I'm willing to pay! Make a game for me!
And the developers and publishers are going, nah. We're not really interested in catering to you. We're going after the WoW market. Eventually we'll crack that nut if we keep trying.
The reason for so much negativity and hatred? Pretty simple.
These forums are for player versus player (PVP) interaction.
It is all about being competitive and trying to 'win' by proving your argument or opinion is better than the next guy. (impossible I know )
Doesn't matter the game, doesn't matter if its released, or the person plays the game, all that matters is they are willing to post and compete with the next guy.
Once you understand their real purpose, then you'll understand the content in them better.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The reason for so much negativity and hatred? Pretty simple. These forums are for player versus player (PVP) interaction. It is all about being competitive and trying to 'win' by proving your argument or opinion is better than the next guy. (impossible I know ) Doesn't matter the game, doesn't matter if its released, or the person plays the game, all that matters is they are willing to post and compete with the next guy. Once you understand their real purpose, then you'll understand the content in them better.
I think it's as simple as that. What I like is good, what you like is bad.
I like grouping, or solo, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
I like cash shops, or P2P, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
I like FFA PvP, or PvE only, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
I like sandbox or themepark games, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
But what about WAR or Champions online? Both extremely hyped games that fell flat, and hard. Those are the games I think about when I think about why the community is angry. But STO is undoubtedly in that catagory. I have a feeling DC Universe online will be too (or whatever it's called).
Maybe the lesson should be that the publishers shouldn't hype so much, or at least they should know what they are hyping is actually in the games. Or maybe studio's should go DL until they have a fully fleshed out game, then do box sales to reach a wider market, retaining control of a game and not relinquishing that control to companies that are all about the box sales only.
- games are business instead of free for all public service
This is so obvious I don't know why you bothered to post it. How could anyone think of trying to make money off of something that is a necessity and right for all human beings? That would be greedy and evil.
Maybe the lesson should be that the publishers shouldn't hype so much, or at least they should know what they are hyping is actually in the games. Or maybe studio's should go DL until they have a fully fleshed out game, then do box sales to reach a wider market, retaining control of a game and not relinquishing that control to companies that are all about the box sales only.
I think your whole point is right, but especially what I hilighted. Devs don't seem knowwhat it is that they're hyping or sometimes even the game mechanics and how they'll play out live. For instance before WAR came out (a game I was really pumped for) Mythic talked about the keeps across the map that factions could take over. They said it was a way to really leave your mark in the game and that there was no way this system would devolve into some sort of tag wherin one faction would take it, get renown, then leave so the other side could take it, get their renown etc. And what ended up happening? Exactly what the Devs said wouldn't, the keeps turned over again and again and there was largely no point to even bother defending a keep, much less retaining control of one, and it was like that in beta too so there is no reason that wasn't adressed sooner. But that's just one example of the countless things hyped by so many devs that just isn't true, not because they're lying so much as because they don't really know what they're selling.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
When people are frustrated, sometimes the best outlet is to just *SCREAM*. When you've got nobody to scream to, you come here. Frustration breeds contempt, frustration breeds hatred. People are social animals. They want to feel "accepted" Maybe these people come here in order to find that acceptance, or maybe people just want to relieve stress. Whatever the case, when you scream, everyone can here it.
The "Loud" topics that litter these boards often overshadow the calm, collected posts by posters who are here for socialization. Here on MMORPG they meet to discuss their favorite game, talk about what they like and don't like, find games, or even just shoot the breeze.
That being said; not all negativity is a *bad* thing. How it's presented is where bad negativity often gets jumbled up with good negativity. I avoid using "Many" in my posts, because it suggests that a "Majority" or "A lot" of people follow what I'm about to say, and that's just not true, so instead; People who visit these forums have voices and they want to be heard. By human nature, we're drawn to the negative things. People may feel like they're being encroached upon by excessive negativity; "This game is just dumbed down". By default, you feel insulted because you're a player of the game and you want to speak out against it. Or perhaps you just want to defend those people who are insulted.
Playing a MMORPG is a life for some people. Insulting their favorite game is like insulting their way of life. Nobody wants to be told what to do with their life, which is why it's always hard to criticize your game. The best way to do it, is avoid using terms that clump several types of gamers into one.
Terms like:
Many, Most, A lot, Majority, Everyone, etc: These terms lump people into a "Group", making people feel suffocated, or locked into a type of player that they themselves may feel they do not belong to. Unless you have concrete proof that a majority of people agree with you, then you should avoid making comments that use the majority of people as an example.
Sucks, Stupid, etc: Again, this goes back to what I said earlier. When you insult a game, you insult the players who play the game, or the people who read these threads. You may think you're trying to do the people a service, but in reality, you're just making them mad.
Carebear, Hardcore, Casual: Lumping people into "Groups" is a surefire way to make people feel uneasy. People come in all shapes and sizes and can't be expected to like all MMORPGs, but attaching hurtful, or even meaningless names to these types of people makes them feel worthless or detached from the community.
Sandbox or Themepark: This is a new type of description. When used to describe a game, it's generally accepted; however, a new trend is to attach it to players. "The people who played sandboxes like UO back then didn't have hand-holding like they do now in these themepark games"
You do have to remember, that people who are frustrated aren't always themselves. When they come here to vent, they may write things they don't necessarily mean. In other words, try to take what you read with a grain of salt, and know that these are human beings you are dealing with. Not "carebears" or "Hardcores" or "Sandbox". They have a different way of life, and you should respect them for that just as they should respect you for yours.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
I suspect a significant number of people here (like me) are here looking for a new game because they didn't like or burned out on their last one, and are just not feeling the love at the moment.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
To remind the devs not to release un-finish half-crap broken-promise fake-hype games. Come back when GW2, TOR and FF XIV is release, you will see more...
yeah... because Devs read this forum LOL!
I see a lot of Dev blogs on different MMO's (mainly F2P ones) asking there respective communities to go to this or other sites to hype their games. The threads in the Allods forum had many references to MMORPG.com and the Devs responded to them. They may be lurking in the shadows, but I think there are more than we realize.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
Comments
STO, ok that's a trainwreck, but the other two are more like fender benders. They aren't good, but got hardly enough press to be considered a trainwreck (unless you're talking about the magnitude of problems with them). But what about WAR or Champions online? Both extremely hyped games that fell flat, and hard. Those are the games I think about when I think about why the community is angry. But STO is undoubtedly in that catagory. I have a feeling DC Universe online will be too (or whatever it's called).
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
Whether you realize it or not, the market place is a competition.
People like to play MMORPGs. It is the most complex computer game designed to date. By complex, I mean what it takes to make an MMORPG, the server, the client, the content. That is why it costs millions of dollars to make an MMORPG, because of the complexity, and because of how labor intensive it is to make all those models and graphics.
So making an MMORPG requires large amounts of capital. And there is only so much capital to go around.
If I like a good grouping game, and you hate good grouping games because you only like solo games, then we're asking for two different things.
A dev can't put both of those things in the same game. They have to choose one. Naturally people want them to choose the one they like, so they can have a good game to play.
Right now if you like solo friendly, quest grinding, no real PvP that impacts the world, fast leveling, themepark games, you're set. You can play WoW, LotRO, Aion, Warhammer, and all those asian grinder F2P games as well (as long as you spend some money in the cash shop).
but if you're looking for something else, there's not much out there. So people are yelling. Hey! I"m here, I'm willing to pay! Make a game for me!
And the developers and publishers are going, nah. We're not really interested in catering to you. We're going after the WoW market. Eventually we'll crack that nut if we keep trying.
Yep.
Happy people PLAY. Angry people POST.
It's got nothing to do with this site or any game in particular.
The reason for so much negativity and hatred? Pretty simple.
These forums are for player versus player (PVP) interaction.
It is all about being competitive and trying to 'win' by proving your argument or opinion is better than the next guy. (impossible I know )
Doesn't matter the game, doesn't matter if its released, or the person plays the game, all that matters is they are willing to post and compete with the next guy.
Once you understand their real purpose, then you'll understand the content in them better.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think it's as simple as that. What I like is good, what you like is bad.
I like grouping, or solo, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
I like cash shops, or P2P, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
I like FFA PvP, or PvE only, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
I like sandbox or themepark games, so the other one sucks and people that like that are stupid.
Maybe the lesson should be that the publishers shouldn't hype so much, or at least they should know what they are hyping is actually in the games. Or maybe studio's should go DL until they have a fully fleshed out game, then do box sales to reach a wider market, retaining control of a game and not relinquishing that control to companies that are all about the box sales only.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
Because:
- games in beta have bugs
- games are business instead of free for all public service
- theme-park games have quests
- sandbox games don't have quests
- the games are WOW clones
- the games don't follow standards established by WOW
- in PVP games you get killed by other players
- in PVE games other players are ruining your gameplay
- you have to play the games
This is so obvious I don't know why you bothered to post it. How could anyone think of trying to make money off of something that is a necessity and right for all human beings? That would be greedy and evil.
Is all because we have no Pokemon MMO, where we can hug cuddly creatures?
I think your whole point is right, but especially what I hilighted. Devs don't seem know what it is that they're hyping or sometimes even the game mechanics and how they'll play out live. For instance before WAR came out (a game I was really pumped for) Mythic talked about the keeps across the map that factions could take over. They said it was a way to really leave your mark in the game and that there was no way this system would devolve into some sort of tag wherin one faction would take it, get renown, then leave so the other side could take it, get their renown etc. And what ended up happening? Exactly what the Devs said wouldn't, the keeps turned over again and again and there was largely no point to even bother defending a keep, much less retaining control of one, and it was like that in beta too so there is no reason that wasn't adressed sooner. But that's just one example of the countless things hyped by so many devs that just isn't true, not because they're lying so much as because they don't really know what they're selling.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
When people are frustrated, sometimes the best outlet is to just *SCREAM*. When you've got nobody to scream to, you come here. Frustration breeds contempt, frustration breeds hatred. People are social animals. They want to feel "accepted" Maybe these people come here in order to find that acceptance, or maybe people just want to relieve stress. Whatever the case, when you scream, everyone can here it.
The "Loud" topics that litter these boards often overshadow the calm, collected posts by posters who are here for socialization. Here on MMORPG they meet to discuss their favorite game, talk about what they like and don't like, find games, or even just shoot the breeze.
That being said; not all negativity is a *bad* thing. How it's presented is where bad negativity often gets jumbled up with good negativity. I avoid using "Many" in my posts, because it suggests that a "Majority" or "A lot" of people follow what I'm about to say, and that's just not true, so instead; People who visit these forums have voices and they want to be heard. By human nature, we're drawn to the negative things. People may feel like they're being encroached upon by excessive negativity; "This game is just dumbed down". By default, you feel insulted because you're a player of the game and you want to speak out against it. Or perhaps you just want to defend those people who are insulted.
Playing a MMORPG is a life for some people. Insulting their favorite game is like insulting their way of life. Nobody wants to be told what to do with their life, which is why it's always hard to criticize your game. The best way to do it, is avoid using terms that clump several types of gamers into one.
Terms like:
You do have to remember, that people who are frustrated aren't always themselves. When they come here to vent, they may write things they don't necessarily mean. In other words, try to take what you read with a grain of salt, and know that these are human beings you are dealing with. Not "carebears" or "Hardcores" or "Sandbox". They have a different way of life, and you should respect them for that just as they should respect you for yours.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
I suspect a significant number of people here (like me) are here looking for a new game because they didn't like or burned out on their last one, and are just not feeling the love at the moment.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
yeah... because Devs read this forum LOL!
I see a lot of Dev blogs on different MMO's (mainly F2P ones) asking there respective communities to go to this or other sites to hype their games. The threads in the Allods forum had many references to MMORPG.com and the Devs responded to them. They may be lurking in the shadows, but I think there are more than we realize.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end