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Sandbox games?
Hey..
I tried a lot of gamesn ow.. And I realised, that I only love the sandbox. Ive been playing WoW for 5 years. 10.1k Achievement points, done every HM and everything. Made it to BWL in vanilla, and illi in tbc. I quit now, I don't like it anymore.
In age of conan, I made it to farm all of hte conent.. then got bored. 3 80s.
Lotro I made it to mid--way to max, was not my style.
So I figured, sandbox is me. Then in December or so I went for FE, i did play it just when it launched, but was not so great back then: Now in december, i loved it. Was great and all.
- Is it worth going back too? Or is there any better release out there? Since I'm bored, and tired of instanced games or just the fact you need to raid and shit.
Should I go for fallen earth on my rifleman and make some badass powder and pwn some chota or is there a whole other sandbox that is good?
Comments
Try Eve online, Saga of Ryzom and Darkfall.
All three are sandbox games with slightly different rule sets.
All three have Trials
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I need PVE btw. So EvE and Darkfall is not an option
Xsyon, out April 15th. The ultimate sandbox game on paper, not sure how it is yet as no gameplay footage is released.
Either way, join the bandwagon
Runescape
Generation P
Wurm online, amazing amazing sandbox game, if you can get over the shortcomings.
Entire world is player created, you build what you want, how you want, where you want. If you can get over the combat/animation shortcomings, this true sandbox game offers so much when you dig a little beneath the surface.
Pimpwars/Cripplesmash/Legend of the Red Dragon/TradeWars 2002/TrollMud/Usurper
Present: Wurm , Fallen Earth
As was said, if you can get past the poor graphics Wurm online is probably the most 'sandboxy' sandbox out there.
FE is definitely a sandboxy blend of pve/pvp. I can see how it might seem uninviting at the beginning due to the game-play challenge of not having a themepark-type tutorial that holds your hand through how to play the game; but that will be a similar experience with most sandboxy games Ive tried.
I think this is noteworthy for the Fallen Earth Indie mmorpg, to mention that it is getting noticed more often.
Readers have voted and Fallen Earth has been named Best Online Game at Game Industry News' Game of the Year awards. All the winning titles across different markets are here. www.gameindustry.com/goty/winners.asp
And the Fallen Earth review is here. www.gameindustry.com/review/item.asp
I enjoyed reading the review and could certainly relate to it. I am enjoying Fallen Earth as an newer clone that had some beta experience, but just as the reviewer points out about what was previoulsy a challenge to a quicker-pace of immersion and familiarity with the vast nature of this player-driven game-play, Fallen Earth has implemented some changes to improve the gameplay. More recently, as reported, The best one is an extra tutorial that shows new players how to craft and use other skills, something that was sorely missing at launch. We hope this trend of improvement continues.
Fallen Earth has also received runner-up for Best New MMO Release of 2009 by Beckett Massive Online Gamer Readers. www.massiveonlinegamer.com/news/special-features/518-2009-readers-choice-award-winners
There are some rough edges to this game, but all-in-all, some AAA development houses can learn some lessons on launching and the meaning behind breadth and depth of game-play, as well as active community support and participation by some Indie Studios like Icarus.
To date, this in-game community assistance and the GM/Dev support, particularly the in-game help channel dialog is most impressive; more impressive and responsive than I can remember when thinking about other mmorpg titles that launched and are active.
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
The whole time the best bet for me was FE, but i wanted to get some other offers, if people knew something else.
Sandbox MMOGs are what so many people seem to want and so few developers are willing to make. The 3 big options I can think of are:
Darkfall (if you want open-world guild PvP in a fantasy setting)
Eve Online (hardcore PvP fleets, alliance, very economical; your avatar is a ship)
Fallen Earth (a very immersive PvE open world)
I think of sandbox games like a bound book with blank pages. The buyer of that book doesn't get a story, they must write the story.
After working all day, helping the kids with their homework, cooking dinner and then getting them to bed. I want to spend the end of my day with a beer and enjoying a story that takes me on a journey, not write one from scratch.
Even though I admit to playing EVE every now and then.
I want a well written story that I can follow and that will unfold for me.
I would rather play in an immersive world where I can learn of it's lore and it's struggles and be a part of the solution to it's troubles.
Sandbox has it's appeal, but it's very limited for me and fades quickly.
And I can see where it would be a nightmare for the DEVs to leave it all in the hands of the players to keep the game's content going. Hard to trust someone you don't know.
I think the draw of sandbox games has always been just waiting for technology to get good enough for a real life sim game with fantasy setting where if you die once your character is deleted type thing... like that game Dawn was going to be before it became vaporware.
This is the misconception about sandbox games that really gets to me. It isn't that the devs do not create content, or should not create content. Look at EVE or Ryzom, and you will see Devs that continue to add content, and add elements of a story. To be sandbox is not to be devoid of story or content. To be sandbox is not to direct a character through a quest progression that tells a very specific story, which may be what you mean. There is lore, there is a story, and there is content (at least, there should be, I am not claiming all sandbox games are well-made).
Thus, the idea is to create a living world, with lore and a backstory, but to allow players to explore it, and discover the story for themselves, not to be told where to go and when to go there.
For example, in WoW, in each game (Vanilla, BC, Wrath) you follow a series of quests that tells not only the overarching story of the world, or of Illidan and co., or of Arthas and his shenanigans, but also of the player and their very specific actions as part of that story. The player specifically kills certain people, or runs rescue missions or whathaveyou. In this way, each player experiences essentially the same thing.
In a sandbox games, there is no such series of quests. There is lore, and there is a story happening, but it is usually a more general tale about the state of the world, and the relations between factions or races. There is no such specific story, because that would direct the player toward a specific set of actions in a specific order, which is exactly what sandboxes aim to avoid. If a player explores a sandbox world, and speaks to NPCs (which is significantly different for searching for symbols over heads and clicking "accept"), they will learn what is going on, and can choose if they want to participate.
For example, in old EQ, one could do quests, but it entailed speaking to a person, and actually talking to them, trying to find out information. You might need to say the right thing, or do something else beforehand, to be able to get the information. It might not even be a quest, but instead the NPC tells you that there is a camp of bad guys that have been bothering people, or tramping the trade routes, or whatever, and now you know where some baddies are, and maybe something useful about them. Maybe there would be a quest, but the character would not have a symbol overhead, and you would not get a neat message in your quest log telling you where to go and what to do there. It might be just that the NPC added that, because the baddies were cramping the trade routes, they might pay you pretty well for some bat wings, or whatever, to sell as reagents, or whatever. And you could go get them, and if you had bat wings in your inventory when you spoke to him, you could hand them over, and be rewarded, like a quest. Except you did it like a real thing would be done.
This is much better for roleplaying, as well, because not everyone can be the person that killed that specific named boss and saved the world alongside named hero npcs that hang out in cities.
The mentality for each type is very different, and different people enjoy different things, but neither type can be called a decent game if it is lacking in content or story. As you can see, it is harder to deal with a sandbox game, because not everything is handed to you. Sometimes I like to have things handed to me, but sometimes I do not. Most of the time, I just want to be in a world that I can pretend is real, in which I can be just another person, living a life, like every other adventurer. They are both good things, but I would like to see more serious, large development efforts to produce sandbox type games.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Try Runescape, it's browser based ya, but you'll spend a long time getting everything done.
It's a difficult game PvE -wise when compared to all the other PvE games.
Think of it as a PvE Sandbox/Themepark mix.
Go check it out!
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Sometimes I like to have things handed to me, but sometimes I do not. Most of the time, I just want to be in a world that I can pretend is real, in which I can be just another person, living a life, like every other adventurer. They are both good things, but I would like to see more serious, large development efforts to produce sandbox type games.
Nothing wrong with that. But I have a very good personal life.
I personally don't need a game to emulate life, I have life for that.
I want a fantasy, sci-fi setting that has failsafes, like a Holodeck.
Just my personal preference, that's all. Just like the sandbox is your feel.
It's not a misconception I have on sandbox style MMOs.
I have played Darkfall and EVE. I understand what a sandbox is.
Eve's missions, what litle there are, are repetitive and get old fast. Darkfall is just free-roam do whatever kind of feel.
I don't have that kind of time. I have lives to maintain, and a company to keep running.
I want to read a book to take me away, not a 'create your own story' to create more work for my already busy life.
I think the sandboxes are great for the hardcore gamers.
But I feel the current MMOs cater more to the casual gamer that has a life and the life of others to contend to.
Sandboxes are a neccesity, but to those that have the time to live a second life and spend many hours continously in this virtual world to make it worthwhile and be successful.
My teenager can pull that off since I support him and he has tons of free time.
I cannot.....and I am happy with that.
I also think sandbox is starting to equal hardcore PVP. So sandbox is really catering to a PVP player more than a PVE player.
I play a quick FPS for that, and fine that completes my needs.
Different strokes for different folks..
TO ANSWER OPS QUESTION
HASNT BEEN A GOOD SANDBOX SINCE UO IF YOU LIKIN FALLEN EARTH YOU MIGHT AS WELL STICK WITH IT
Sandbox games require no more time from you than themeparks do and I find it funny for you to make that statement. Spending more time in game is based on your personal goals and ambitions only. Perhaps you get more of a feeling of achievement hour for hour in themeparks but as you said, its just a preference of making your own story or reading someone elses.
Exactly. Fraxture, you missed the point again. Sandboxes are not "create your own story," at least they shouldn't be. They just have a different kind of story, one that does not take you from specific point to specific point. The world just exists, and you are in it. You can tell a story for roleplaying, if that is your thing, or you can just be an adventurer in a world.
There is nothing about the sandbox genre that would necessitate playing more than theme parks. Whether a game is casual or hardcore has nothing at all whatever to do with being a sandbox or a theme park.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
What kind of pve are we talking about? Leveling dungeons and progression raids? no chance in hell.
Challenging mobs, gaining rep with factions, roaming bosses, missions and a few non-instanced dungeons? Ryzom is the only one i can think of.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This thread is why hybrids need to become the norm. Good mix of sandbox/themeparks, to appeal to all players. Last one that came remotely close to this for me was FFXI. If only it wasn't based around EQ's group leveling mechanics and more to today's optional solo/group leveling mechanics.
Oh wait, FFXIV looks to be addressing this. Good, that's one game going the right way. Can the rest of the developers out there follow suit, please?
How do you get a themepark in a sandbox? What are these features that are exclusively sandbox and themepark that you feel needs to be combined into this hybrid game?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
How do you get a themepark in a sandbox? What are these features that are exclusively sandbox and themepark that you feel needs to be combined into this hybrid game?
Simple really. Take FFXI as an example. The game has a vast world, no hand holding per se, you enter and try to find your way through. BUT, if you happen to explore and talk to random NPCs, they start to hand out Missions, which are essentially huge epic story arcs for you to enjoy in the game with great rewards. Best part is, you don't HAVE to do them. Ever. That is one example.
Another example, that hasn't been implemented, is this: Imagine WoW or LOTRO, but instead of levels you have skills as in Darkfall or Eve. You still go along a questing path but how you complete them is based on the skills you have aquired. That's how I see hybrids working, for me at least. I'm sure there can be more innovation in this than what I've stated though.
How do you get a themepark in a sandbox? What are these features that are exclusively sandbox and themepark that you feel needs to be combined into this hybrid game?
Simple really. Take FFXI as an example. The game has a vast world, no hand holding per se, you enter and try to find your way through. BUT, if you happen to explore and talk to random NPCs, they start to hand out Missions, which are essentially huge epic story arcs for you to enjoy in the game with great rewards. Best part is, you don't HAVE to do them. Ever. That is one example.
Another example, that hasn't been implemented, is this: Imagine WoW or LOTRO, but instead of levels you have skills as in Darkfall or Eve. You still go along a questing path but how you complete them is based on the skills you have aquired. That's how I see hybrids working, for me at least. I'm sure there can be more innovation in this than what I've stated though.
For your first example How do you balance Quest rewards and Crafted items? Even in Hybrid games Crafting is the main way people get items if you give powerful rewards for questing people will just do that.
In you second example your basically saying you want a game like Anarchy online or fallen earth. Mission hub progression with some type of straight up skill system or class system with skills under the hood. its been done just not in the fantasy sub genre.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Dont forget:
>Earthrise
>Xsyon
They both look very appealing and worth looking into, as in following.
Same with poster above.
.
Pre-ordered Xsyon, looks very interesting (pro-orders get into early access) - starts apparently the 15th march, so we will see. Not a huge amount of detail has been released but looks promising
My kingdom for a perfect balance...
It seems that the choices of games out there are on extreme sides of the spectrum. The themepark games seem waaaay too restrictive in terms of gameplay freedom, but there is plenty of content to follow. The sandbox games, by contrast, can seem too open-ended, leading to aimless play. That aimless play invariably leads to straight up PvP for PvP's sake, which turns the game into nothing more than a large scale deathmatch.
I'd like a game to have some structure as a guideline. Give the world a history, the races their own motivations and culture, and then leave it open enough to allow the players to run with it. Encourage play that pays a little homage to the fiction of the world and respect for RPG conventions. What I mean is, my attitude towards gaming is all about immersion in a different world, playing by that world's rules (to a point), and keeping within that world's context.
Let's take Darkfall, for example. I've tried it and can't say I like it. I'm not going to say it sucks, because thousands of people feel otherwise, but it's not the game for me. Here's why. I see no reason to immerse myself in the world of Agon and take an interest in adventuring in it. There's no overarching story. I'm not looking for a story that constricts gameplay, rather I'm looking for context. There seems to be one goal only, broken into two parts: Get strong and beat the shit out of everyone else. Without a broader context to the world and gameplay, the various races are just window dressing, and the world is just a large deathmatch map. The mindset this style of gameplay attracts eschews RPG convention and leaves us engaging in clickfests with players named something like "Steelballs McLongcock" of the guild "Punch U in the Dik".
--Perfectly reasonable in a game like Quakewars, but jarring and (imho) completely out of place in a fantasy RPG.
Fallen Earth, by comparison, at least gives you a reason for being there and an ultimate goal. What you do along the way is left up to you, and it breaks up PVP monotony with a little PVE. My only complaint is that I'm just a sucker for sword and sorcery in my RPGs and never could get immersed in modern/sci-fi settings. Again, not saying FE sucks by any means, just not the game for me.
Once developers start combining the better parts of sandboxes and themeparks, I'll be more optimistic. I know such games exist somewhat in the form of Ryzom and one or two others, but I want to see something new come out. Something to get me excited to whip out the ol' credit card and lose a few weekends. Can't say I see anything on the horizon at this point.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous