Maybe when they stop recycling the same models over and over again and make grinding through mobs a choice rather than a must, I may give them another look.
It may be free to download and it may be free to play, but if you intended to spend your time playing a game, don't you want to get something out of it? My free time is valuable since I don't have much of it and money doesn't grow on trees for me so I have a budget for my gaming. When a f2p game comes along where I can experience all the game has to offer with mulitple characters and has the same depth, play mechanics, and there is no need to grind anything to reach the next level (can use questing or other methods to get there) for around $15 a month U.S. then I will give it a look. Don't see that happening anytime soon.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I find it very telling how ten to twelve years ago, many of these arguments were used against MMORPGs across the board by many online gamers.
My favorite, and one I used until my wife sat me down in front of EQ is: "Why should I pay to play a game I've already bought? I play Team Fortress and Quake online, all I had to do was buy the game, install it, launch it and go. I'm not going to pay every month to play something I've already bought! That's insane!"
I play a couple of free to play games along side my lifetime sub to LotRO and Guild Wars(classic buy it use it model), so does she.
In the last six months, she has spent $20 on Aeria Points for her Grand Fantasia account. You know what she bought? A hat for her sprite, a couple of craft assisting items that she didn't want to farm and a cosmetic outfit she thought was cute. She still has $6 worth of points remaining. There are no items or equipment in the shop that unbalance anything. In fact they don't have armor or weapons in the shop at all that I've seen.
Me? Haven't spent a dime. Haven't had to, haven't been forced to and most importantly, haven't found anything I wanted to spend money to get. I also haven't missed out on anything.
But I'm an old school table top gamer, so I very much understand the model of purchasing new content. In a free to play game, I don't have to buy an expansion(recent PWI update, new race/class/environment/quests et cetera). But there are items that exist, mostly fluff, that if I want them, I have to buy them. If I don't want to buy them, I don't have to. Because I don't NEED them.
The inherent problem with taking a solid stance on a fluid issue is that eventually, your argument sinks. You get charged for time. Whether you use it or not. We choose to pay for tangible items, or not to pay for them.
Average month is thirty days long, which is about 720 hours. Are you paying $15 for 720 hours? No? Are you at least hitting 360 hours a month? That would be half. No?
Does your MMO company have rollover minutes? Do they refund you or credit you for the hours you didn't play?
Think about that before you cry foul on free to play games.
Oh, and there are many many many games not using the same models and art style in the free to play category. Argument is invalid.
No Richard, I'm still not going to play F2P mmorpgs.
One more time, players should buy items in the item shop because they like the game, not because the game is crap without them.
I like your writing style, and I admit that your articles are a good read. However, Toquio3 shares my sentiment.
Ditto.
Double ditto.
I have played many F2P games. And up until recently ( thanks to some real trash comming out of AAA studios ) they hqave not been CLOSE to comparison with a good P2P title.
Just because the latest crop of crap to come out of studios is comparible to F2P does not make them that attractive to me. F2P has always been either a tool for marketing some other item or a hope to make some money off the product through advertisements or in game or through micro-trans. Due to no one willing to pay a monthly sub for it.
I am keeping an open eye and mind on Dark Prophecy but, really lost a lot of hopes on it when it anounced the F2P model.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Originally posted by kaiser3282 Thats the thing that people dont seem to be able to grasp . . . which is pretty damn pathetic, 'cause its so simple. It's FREE to play . . . I never complained about spending the money because I knew WTF I was doing and made a logical decision based on my funding and my desire to play that game whether it was worth the price, or if it was better spent elsewhere.
Although I don't share Kaiser3282's fervor I do share their point of view. Then again, if everyone was this logical and exerted at least a functional level of self control, no one would pay for the F2P games that I currently enjoy. Dungeons & Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and Earth Eternal are three games that I find entertaining and best of all (for me) free. I can't imagine what would happen to the world if everyone suddenly reached some ultimate form of budget sense.
So, while I would argue that everyone needs to put a better head on their shoulders and buckle down with their debit cards . . . the truth is that I know many people still simply won't. In fact, I hope the less budget-savvy are tempted back over and over again to "pay" for my subscription. After all, I'm 100% content playing the free content to it's fullest (giving myself an unofficial title of "purist"). I also know that there are those out there who have the money and WANT to pay for helpful potions, armor, mounts and the like just for a bit of an edge. Why not give them what they want and in return everyone else gets to play for free?
If you're complaining that F2P games are always crap, that's your opinion, and to a large extent I'd say you are right. I can't even say that anything about DDO, EE or RoM makes them highly addicting, but then again I have a toddler in the house so I can't afford the level immersion I use to enjoy. That aside, no titles (F2P or P2P) out there appear to be as original, mysterious or difficult/complex as Asheron's Call is to me, so if I'm going to settle for second rate (which I think is the ultimate complaint here, though I could be wrong) I might as well not have to pay for it. All-in-all I'm still having plenty of fun.
If you're complaining about F2P games and it's because deep down you don't have enough self control then I'm sorry . . . but putting a lock down on your wallet is no more the MMO development team's responsibility than it is your local grocery store's or a casino's responsibility. Complain away, but keep coming back once in a while to feed the meter, I'm having a blast over here!
Wow... Thank you First replying posts to begin the Free to play vs Pay to Play Q.Q Shitfest and ruining the topic. Shut up and post it when its appropriate. The internet is so full of opinionated idiots, its amazing. Its like the doctor telling you that you have diabetes and your bitching because you hate the letter D.
The topic of the Opening post was "Who'da Thunk it" and gave some data that a-lot of us wouldn't have figured or bashed popular misconceptions. Nothing in this article should have put your sensitive single-minded elitist P2P panties in a knot.
First posts go cry somewhere else about the F2P and P2P, perferably where its called for and quit ruining these topics. GJ for destroying another article discussion.
Again, if I could filter the F2P content on the site so that I wouldn't have to view it... I would.
Overall, the F2P articles are (as others have said) well written. But honestly, I don't care about China. I just don't. And I really don't care for their censorship.
Also, if China is trying to hack Google and many other high ranking institutions here in the US.... what would keep them from coding some malware into their games to assist in the effort? Conspiracy theory? Meh. Not really too far fetched, tbh. Distributed computing my friends... think about it.
The topic of the Opening post was "Who'da Thunk it" and gave some data that a-lot of us wouldn't have figured or bashed popular misconceptions. Nothing in this article should have put your sensitive single-minded elitist P2P panties in a knot.
And that is where you are wrong. There was NOTHING new or insightful in the article; you would be hard pressed to find more than a token few who dislike the F2P model and didn't already know those snippets of information. It was nothing more than the latest in Richards' unending tirade of reasons why everyone who doesn't fall over and worship the inevitable "new" model of MMOs are too stupid, bigoted, misinformed or mentally deranged to be taken seriously.
Here's a newsflash; I'm not some closet anti-Asian bigot, I'm as sane as anyone playing these games and more educated about the industry than most. I don't CARE who started the F2P business model, nor how many people in Brazil/China/France or anywhere else play it; I just don't like it. I find the games which use it to be generally outdated, poorly done or nearly abandoned code that someone is trying to squeeze the last few bucks out of. I find the F2P/perk shop model to be fundamentally distasteful as a consumer and no amount of insults hurled by Richard or anyone else will change that.
I don't understand your infatuation with shallow games. More power to you. Just don't try to sell it to us. If 2.5 million users play some crap Last Chaos/PW clone, well, too bad for them, I guess. That tells me how boring life in China must be.
Racism makes your argument stronger.
I love coming onto Aioshi's article's comments section. Never will you meet a more racist, closed-minded, elitist group of MMO "enthusiasts."
... Enjoy your World of Warcraft. Because doing the same dungeons and raids week after week for a whole year == boring life...?
puh-lease.
1) Where is the racist statement? (Cause using the racism card somehow makes you more intelligent) Making an observation about how boring Last Chaos, Perfect World, and the other crap games coming from the east doesn't constitute a racist statement. What if I told you I thought STO, CO, and lots of other games were boring and pure crap?
2) Why do you assume I play WoW? (I'm American so I play WoW?)
Thanks guys for once again reminding me of the mindless consumerism that made me rich enough to retire at 42.
It's well-known in marketing circles that people believe that the more you pay for something, the better it is. People also believe that the cheaper something is, the less effective it is. It's a variation of the placebo effect. We expect cheaper products to be less effective, and they generally become less effective in our minds, even if they are identical to more expensive products. This is why people report that Coke tastes better than cheaper colas, even if most consumers can't tell the difference in blind taste tests.
Ah, but I digress....
Thanks again. My house in Seattle thanks you. My house in Taos thanks you. My three cars thank you. And my 31' Hunter Aft Cockpit Cruiser thanks you most of all.
The topic of the Opening post was "Who'da Thunk it" and gave some data that a-lot of us wouldn't have figured or bashed popular misconceptions. Nothing in this article should have put your sensitive single-minded elitist P2P panties in a knot.
And that is where you are wrong. There was NOTHING new or insightful in the article; you would be hard pressed to find more than a token few who dislike the F2P model and didn't already know those snippets of information. It was nothing more than the latest in Richards' unending tirade of reasons why everyone who doesn't fall over and worship the inevitable "new" model of MMOs are too stupid, bigoted, misinformed or mentally deranged to be taken seriously.
Here's a newsflash; I'm not some closet anti-Asian bigot, I'm as sane as anyone playing these games and more educated about the industry than most. I don't CARE who started the F2P business model, nor how many people in Brazil/China/France or anywhere else play it; I just don't like it. I find the games which use it to be generally outdated, poorly done or nearly abandoned code that someone is trying to squeeze the last few bucks out of. I find the F2P/perk shop model to be fundamentally distasteful as a consumer and no amount of insults hurled by Richard or anyone else will change that.
What i read was. "Partially make sense but not back it up" followed by "Blind Self Justification + Take Defense + Spew Opinion + Hate."
to the first part where you actually attempted to reply, My response is: Simply because you knew the info doesn't mean everyone else did, and even so. Its only information, data, and fact. Also. One of the above facts is a known popular misconception. Another one came out in yearly revenue reports two weeks ago.
You also seem to be at a crossroads to where you either A: hate games that use F2P or B: hate the F2P system; however your leaning more towards B which leads bias to selection A, instantly bringing hate to all games that use a F2P system, no matter what it employs.
But most of all, if you don't like his articles. Why do you feel the need to post other than garner attention, whine and heckle.
Hate the F2P system and the gamebreaking that tends to come with it... (Mind you, not all games have gamebreaking items in their item shops...) ... Hate not the writer, Hate not the article. There is nothing wrong, unfounded or incorrect in this article, but hate the system. Hate it indeed.
The topic of the Opening post was "Who'da Thunk it" and gave some data that a-lot of us wouldn't have figured or bashed popular misconceptions. Nothing in this article should have put your sensitive single-minded elitist P2P panties in a knot.
And that is where you are wrong. There was NOTHING new or insightful in the article; you would be hard pressed to find more than a token few who dislike the F2P model and didn't already know those snippets of information. It was nothing more than the latest in Richards' unending tirade of reasons why everyone who doesn't fall over and worship the inevitable "new" model of MMOs are too stupid, bigoted, misinformed or mentally deranged to be taken seriously.
Here's a newsflash; I'm not some closet anti-Asian bigot, I'm as sane as anyone playing these games and more educated about the industry than most. I don't CARE who started the F2P business model, nor how many people in Brazil/China/France or anywhere else play it; I just don't like it. I find the games which use it to be generally outdated, poorly done or nearly abandoned code that someone is trying to squeeze the last few bucks out of. I find the F2P/perk shop model to be fundamentally distasteful as a consumer and no amount of insults hurled by Richard or anyone else will change that.
What i read was. "Partially make sense but not back it up" followed by "Blind Self Justification + Take Defense + Spew Opinion + Hate."
to the first part where you actually attempted to reply, My response is: Simply because you knew the info doesn't mean everyone else did, and even so. Its only information, data, and fact. Also. One of the above facts is a known popular misconception. Another one came out in yearly revenue reports two weeks ago.
You also seem to be at a crossroads to where you either A: hate games that use F2P or B: hate the F2P system; however your leaning more towards B which leads bias to selection A, instantly bringing hate to all games that use a F2P system, no matter what it employs.
But most of all, if you don't like his articles. Why do you feel the need to post other than garner attention, whine and heckle.
Hate the F2P system and the gamebreaking that tends to come with it... (Mind you, not all games have gamebreaking items in their item shops...) ... Hate not the writer, Hate not the article. There is nothing wrong, unfounded or incorrect in this article, but hate the system. Hate it indeed.
I would like to speek to the statememt that was made "Why do you feel the need to post"
Pure and simple. I go to my in box. I read email asking me to join the conversation with my thoughts. I do so end of story. I cant speek to why the other fellow does it but I am sure it is the same.
I have yet to find an f2p that I like, I have tried a few just because of the op's articles. To me it all comes down to you have to buy the items in the cash shops to advance, and not having the means to do that just turns me off and I move on to something else.
Thanks guys for once again reminding me of the mindless consumerism that made me rich enough to retire at 42. It's well-known in marketing circles that people believe that the more you pay for something, the better it is. People also believe that the cheaper something is, the less effective it is. It's a variation of the placebo effect. We expect cheaper products to be less effective, and they generally become less effective in our minds, even if they are identical to more expensive products. This is why people report that Coke tastes better than cheaper colas, even if most consumers can't tell the difference in blind taste tests. Ah, but I digress.... Thanks again. My house in Seattle thanks you. My house in Taos thanks you. My three cars thank you. And my 31' Hunter Aft Cockpit Cruiser thanks you most of all. BTW Richard, nice article!
Thank you for making my point. Many times the f2p evangelists on here have preached that f2p isn't designed to nickel and dime you to death. They are and they are designed to have you spend more than you would on a normal p2p sub.
Again, thank you for proving my point.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Thanks guys for once again reminding me of the mindless consumerism that made me rich enough to retire at 42. It's well-known in marketing circles that people believe that the more you pay for something, the better it is. People also believe that the cheaper something is, the less effective it is. It's a variation of the placebo effect. We expect cheaper products to be less effective, and they generally become less effective in our minds, even if they are identical to more expensive products. This is why people report that Coke tastes better than cheaper colas, even if most consumers can't tell the difference in blind taste tests. Ah, but I digress.... Thanks again. My house in Seattle thanks you. My house in Taos thanks you. My three cars thank you. And my 31' Hunter Aft Cockpit Cruiser thanks you most of all. BTW Richard, nice article!
Thank you for making my point. Many times the f2p evangelists on here have preached that f2p isn't designed to nickel and dime you to death. They are and they are designed to have you spend more than you would on a normal p2p sub.
Again, thank you for proving my point.
Actually, you missed my point ENTIRELY. But no matter, you will only hear what you want to hear. No point in discussing.
What i read was. "Partially make sense but not back it up" followed by "Blind Self Justification + Take Defense + Spew Opinion + Hate." to the first part where you actually attempted to reply, My response is: Simply because you knew the info doesn't mean everyone else did, and even so. Its only information, data, and fact. Also. One of the above facts is a known popular misconception. Another one came out in yearly revenue reports two weeks ago. But most of all, if you don't like his articles. Why do you feel the need to post other than garner attention, whine and heckle. Hate not the writer, Hate not the article. There is nothing wrong, unfounded or incorrect in this article, but hate the system. Hate it indeed.
First off, I reply because I can. This is an opinion site, I read it and post here to share opinions. The site would be pretty pointless if no one but yes men posted, don't you think?
Secondly, this is a site for those who follow MMOs, not Joe Average01. So is it really that much of a stretch to realize that perhaps we know a bit more about the industry than the average random player? Also, you really have to consider this in context.
My rant about him calling anyone who disagrees with him bigoted, mentally deranged and now misinformed is drawn straight from his previous articles. He is an embarrassment to this site. From the beginning he has refused to acknowledge that those who dislike aspects of the F2P market might have a point or that they even have a right to that opinion. If you don't see that he is the one who continues to take this down a very hostile road - probably because it's the only way he gets any attention - you aren't reading the same articles I am.
I'm not on some anti-F2P crusade; I just don't happen to like the business model as it has been applied to MMO gaming so far. I (and others) have cited plenty of reasons why we think it is a bad direction for MMO companies to go, why it will not "take off" in US markets to the degree it has in Asia as well as rationally stated preferences showing why we dislike it. In return we have gotten nothing but condescension and insults....so go figure why we're hostile.
Originally posted by Bertiaux Thanks guys for once again reminding me of the mindless consumerism that made me rich enough to retire at 42. It's well-known in marketing circles that people believe that the more you pay for something, the better it is. People also believe that the cheaper something is, the less effective it is. It's a variation of the placebo effect. We expect cheaper products to be less effective, and they generally become less effective in our minds, even if they are identical to more expensive products. This is why people report that Coke tastes better than cheaper colas, even if most consumers can't tell the difference in blind taste tests. Ah, but I digress.... Thanks again. My house in Seattle thanks you. My house in Taos thanks you. My three cars thank you. And my 31' Hunter Aft Cockpit Cruiser thanks you most of all. BTW Richard, nice article!
Thank you for making my point. Many times the f2p evangelists on here have preached that f2p isn't designed to nickel and dime you to death. They are and they are designed to have you spend more than you would on a normal p2p sub. Again, thank you for proving my point.
Again this man speaks..Look I get the fact you work here and all that but it seems your trying to play both devils advocate as well as trying to impress apon us that you seem to know what your talking about. I can read a book and quote of a bunch of obscure things just as well. Does that mean I have a clue what im talking about half the time?
Now on to again this subject matter.
The concept of item malls and micro-transaction makes sense in this economy. alot of people cant justify paying 15 a month for a game...Its rather pointless. Case in point. I was a closed beta tester for wow. I know shame on me. However it came out I paid for it for about 4 years solid. Ok...so lets do some math here. 40 for the original game, trade in discount. Plus 48 months of 15 a month=out to $720 plus add in burning crusade and you get. 770 total I spent just on a game...Now Thats alot of money to keep paying to a company.
And due to wow success alot of companies tried to come out with something hopping to take a piece of the pie. Now consider this wow at any given time has 12million I think it is subscribers. So 15x12000000= 180 million dollars. So figuring with that amount of money they should be able to offer you alot of content as well as service. However when you look at all the failures in this realm, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate, Matrix online, etc..You begin to see that your average gamer will need more then some nifty looking game in order to keep them coming.
Now lets look at a game mentioned by another user. Eve online..first off Eve is free to play if you know what your doing and you have friends who already play and will take you along on missions to boost up your lp and isk totals. Here you have a game that has slowly gained steam over the years. now 15x250000 players = 3.75millon a month. Now considering there are a grand total of 20 people who actually work for the company thats a great paycheck. Eve it self open ended play style as well as strong roots in pvp have made it a huge success amongst true gamers.
Now what both these game, Eve and wow. have in common is a strong fan base. Wow from previous rts games and Eve from its original title, who's name alludes me at this time. None of them gaine success over night mind you. It took years of developing and time and effort. And for that they get paid.
Now comes F2p games and the wonderful world of microtransactions. Lets look at one of my personal favorites Navyfield. This game is 7 years old. Yes 7 years old. The graphics are laughable and the game is a giant pvp sluggfest of ww2 naval ships battling in a real time pvp enviroment. Its free but has micro transactions as well as subscriptions that boost xp. While yes the items you buy can actually give you a great advantage they are not needed and in some cases having a paid for account as well as crew wont matter that much if you have no skills at aiming. Navyfield shows a balance of how a item mall world should work and how it can.
However for the most part games with an item mall are almost always lacking. Lack of content will always be a bane. However many people dont care about content thus why pvp or fps games will always be successful when applying a item mall mentality. Cause lets face it. We all want to be the best. Not to mention if your broke and can afford 5 bucks to get a cape that lets you do more dps. Why not? If it makes you happy then thats all that should matter.
So for those of you who complain all day about item malls and what not. Item mall allows freedom from force fed gaming elements that you have no choice over.
In closing Richard. I know you mean well however it seems your more interested in creating Debate about a sensitive subject to gamers rather then trying to enlighten them. Item malls can work well in the right enviroment. And wow is a greed pig of game....
Comments
wait youd rather pay to play and buy items in an item shop than play a free 2 play game and pick and choose what you buy?
not all are the same and f2p is a lot easier to find one you like and can deal with than p2p because you dont have to buy to try it either
Maybe when they stop recycling the same models over and over again and make grinding through mobs a choice rather than a must, I may give them another look.
It may be free to download and it may be free to play, but if you intended to spend your time playing a game, don't you want to get something out of it? My free time is valuable since I don't have much of it and money doesn't grow on trees for me so I have a budget for my gaming. When a f2p game comes along where I can experience all the game has to offer with mulitple characters and has the same depth, play mechanics, and there is no need to grind anything to reach the next level (can use questing or other methods to get there) for around $15 a month U.S. then I will give it a look. Don't see that happening anytime soon.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I find it very telling how ten to twelve years ago, many of these arguments were used against MMORPGs across the board by many online gamers.
My favorite, and one I used until my wife sat me down in front of EQ is: "Why should I pay to play a game I've already bought? I play Team Fortress and Quake online, all I had to do was buy the game, install it, launch it and go. I'm not going to pay every month to play something I've already bought! That's insane!"
I play a couple of free to play games along side my lifetime sub to LotRO and Guild Wars(classic buy it use it model), so does she.
In the last six months, she has spent $20 on Aeria Points for her Grand Fantasia account. You know what she bought? A hat for her sprite, a couple of craft assisting items that she didn't want to farm and a cosmetic outfit she thought was cute. She still has $6 worth of points remaining. There are no items or equipment in the shop that unbalance anything. In fact they don't have armor or weapons in the shop at all that I've seen.
Me? Haven't spent a dime. Haven't had to, haven't been forced to and most importantly, haven't found anything I wanted to spend money to get. I also haven't missed out on anything.
But I'm an old school table top gamer, so I very much understand the model of purchasing new content. In a free to play game, I don't have to buy an expansion(recent PWI update, new race/class/environment/quests et cetera). But there are items that exist, mostly fluff, that if I want them, I have to buy them. If I don't want to buy them, I don't have to. Because I don't NEED them.
The inherent problem with taking a solid stance on a fluid issue is that eventually, your argument sinks. You get charged for time. Whether you use it or not. We choose to pay for tangible items, or not to pay for them.
Average month is thirty days long, which is about 720 hours. Are you paying $15 for 720 hours? No? Are you at least hitting 360 hours a month? That would be half. No?
Does your MMO company have rollover minutes? Do they refund you or credit you for the hours you didn't play?
Think about that before you cry foul on free to play games.
Oh, and there are many many many games not using the same models and art style in the free to play category. Argument is invalid.
I like your writing style, and I admit that your articles are a good read. However, Toquio3 shares my sentiment.
Ditto.
Double ditto.
I have played many F2P games. And up until recently ( thanks to some real trash comming out of AAA studios ) they hqave not been CLOSE to comparison with a good P2P title.
Just because the latest crop of crap to come out of studios is comparible to F2P does not make them that attractive to me. F2P has always been either a tool for marketing some other item or a hope to make some money off the product through advertisements or in game or through micro-trans. Due to no one willing to pay a monthly sub for it.
I am keeping an open eye and mind on Dark Prophecy but, really lost a lot of hopes on it when it anounced the F2P model.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Although I don't share Kaiser3282's fervor I do share their point of view. Then again, if everyone was this logical and exerted at least a functional level of self control, no one would pay for the F2P games that I currently enjoy. Dungeons & Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and Earth Eternal are three games that I find entertaining and best of all (for me) free. I can't imagine what would happen to the world if everyone suddenly reached some ultimate form of budget sense.
So, while I would argue that everyone needs to put a better head on their shoulders and buckle down with their debit cards . . . the truth is that I know many people still simply won't. In fact, I hope the less budget-savvy are tempted back over and over again to "pay" for my subscription. After all, I'm 100% content playing the free content to it's fullest (giving myself an unofficial title of "purist"). I also know that there are those out there who have the money and WANT to pay for helpful potions, armor, mounts and the like just for a bit of an edge. Why not give them what they want and in return everyone else gets to play for free?
If you're complaining that F2P games are always crap, that's your opinion, and to a large extent I'd say you are right. I can't even say that anything about DDO, EE or RoM makes them highly addicting, but then again I have a toddler in the house so I can't afford the level immersion I use to enjoy. That aside, no titles (F2P or P2P) out there appear to be as original, mysterious or difficult/complex as Asheron's Call is to me, so if I'm going to settle for second rate (which I think is the ultimate complaint here, though I could be wrong) I might as well not have to pay for it. All-in-all I'm still having plenty of fun.
If you're complaining about F2P games and it's because deep down you don't have enough self control then I'm sorry . . . but putting a lock down on your wallet is no more the MMO development team's responsibility than it is your local grocery store's or a casino's responsibility. Complain away, but keep coming back once in a while to feed the meter, I'm having a blast over here!
Wow... Thank you First replying posts to begin the Free to play vs Pay to Play Q.Q Shitfest and ruining the topic. Shut up and post it when its appropriate. The internet is so full of opinionated idiots, its amazing. Its like the doctor telling you that you have diabetes and your bitching because you hate the letter D.
The topic of the Opening post was "Who'da Thunk it" and gave some data that a-lot of us wouldn't have figured or bashed popular misconceptions. Nothing in this article should have put your sensitive single-minded elitist P2P panties in a knot.
First posts go cry somewhere else about the F2P and P2P, perferably where its called for and quit ruining these topics. GJ for destroying another article discussion.
Again, if I could filter the F2P content on the site so that I wouldn't have to view it... I would.
Overall, the F2P articles are (as others have said) well written. But honestly, I don't care about China. I just don't. And I really don't care for their censorship.
Also, if China is trying to hack Google and many other high ranking institutions here in the US.... what would keep them from coding some malware into their games to assist in the effort? Conspiracy theory? Meh. Not really too far fetched, tbh. Distributed computing my friends... think about it.
And that is where you are wrong. There was NOTHING new or insightful in the article; you would be hard pressed to find more than a token few who dislike the F2P model and didn't already know those snippets of information. It was nothing more than the latest in Richards' unending tirade of reasons why everyone who doesn't fall over and worship the inevitable "new" model of MMOs are too stupid, bigoted, misinformed or mentally deranged to be taken seriously.
Here's a newsflash; I'm not some closet anti-Asian bigot, I'm as sane as anyone playing these games and more educated about the industry than most. I don't CARE who started the F2P business model, nor how many people in Brazil/China/France or anywhere else play it; I just don't like it. I find the games which use it to be generally outdated, poorly done or nearly abandoned code that someone is trying to squeeze the last few bucks out of. I find the F2P/perk shop model to be fundamentally distasteful as a consumer and no amount of insults hurled by Richard or anyone else will change that.
Racism makes your argument stronger.
I love coming onto Aioshi's article's comments section. Never will you meet a more racist, closed-minded, elitist group of MMO "enthusiasts."
... Enjoy your World of Warcraft. Because doing the same dungeons and raids week after week for a whole year == boring life...?
puh-lease.
1) Where is the racist statement? (Cause using the racism card somehow makes you more intelligent) Making an observation about how boring Last Chaos, Perfect World, and the other crap games coming from the east doesn't constitute a racist statement. What if I told you I thought STO, CO, and lots of other games were boring and pure crap?
2) Why do you assume I play WoW? (I'm American so I play WoW?)
Thanks guys for once again reminding me of the mindless consumerism that made me rich enough to retire at 42.
It's well-known in marketing circles that people believe that the more you pay for something, the better it is. People also believe that the cheaper something is, the less effective it is. It's a variation of the placebo effect. We expect cheaper products to be less effective, and they generally become less effective in our minds, even if they are identical to more expensive products. This is why people report that Coke tastes better than cheaper colas, even if most consumers can't tell the difference in blind taste tests.
Ah, but I digress....
Thanks again. My house in Seattle thanks you. My house in Taos thanks you. My three cars thank you. And my 31' Hunter Aft Cockpit Cruiser thanks you most of all.
BTW Richard, nice article!
And that is where you are wrong. There was NOTHING new or insightful in the article; you would be hard pressed to find more than a token few who dislike the F2P model and didn't already know those snippets of information. It was nothing more than the latest in Richards' unending tirade of reasons why everyone who doesn't fall over and worship the inevitable "new" model of MMOs are too stupid, bigoted, misinformed or mentally deranged to be taken seriously.
Here's a newsflash; I'm not some closet anti-Asian bigot, I'm as sane as anyone playing these games and more educated about the industry than most. I don't CARE who started the F2P business model, nor how many people in Brazil/China/France or anywhere else play it; I just don't like it. I find the games which use it to be generally outdated, poorly done or nearly abandoned code that someone is trying to squeeze the last few bucks out of. I find the F2P/perk shop model to be fundamentally distasteful as a consumer and no amount of insults hurled by Richard or anyone else will change that.
What i read was. "Partially make sense but not back it up" followed by "Blind Self Justification + Take Defense + Spew Opinion + Hate."
to the first part where you actually attempted to reply, My response is: Simply because you knew the info doesn't mean everyone else did, and even so. Its only information, data, and fact. Also. One of the above facts is a known popular misconception. Another one came out in yearly revenue reports two weeks ago.
You also seem to be at a crossroads to where you either A: hate games that use F2P or B: hate the F2P system; however your leaning more towards B which leads bias to selection A, instantly bringing hate to all games that use a F2P system, no matter what it employs.
But most of all, if you don't like his articles. Why do you feel the need to post other than garner attention, whine and heckle.
Hate the F2P system and the gamebreaking that tends to come with it... (Mind you, not all games have gamebreaking items in their item shops...) ... Hate not the writer, Hate not the article. There is nothing wrong, unfounded or incorrect in this article, but hate the system. Hate it indeed.
And that is where you are wrong. There was NOTHING new or insightful in the article; you would be hard pressed to find more than a token few who dislike the F2P model and didn't already know those snippets of information. It was nothing more than the latest in Richards' unending tirade of reasons why everyone who doesn't fall over and worship the inevitable "new" model of MMOs are too stupid, bigoted, misinformed or mentally deranged to be taken seriously.
Here's a newsflash; I'm not some closet anti-Asian bigot, I'm as sane as anyone playing these games and more educated about the industry than most. I don't CARE who started the F2P business model, nor how many people in Brazil/China/France or anywhere else play it; I just don't like it. I find the games which use it to be generally outdated, poorly done or nearly abandoned code that someone is trying to squeeze the last few bucks out of. I find the F2P/perk shop model to be fundamentally distasteful as a consumer and no amount of insults hurled by Richard or anyone else will change that.
What i read was. "Partially make sense but not back it up" followed by "Blind Self Justification + Take Defense + Spew Opinion + Hate."
to the first part where you actually attempted to reply, My response is: Simply because you knew the info doesn't mean everyone else did, and even so. Its only information, data, and fact. Also. One of the above facts is a known popular misconception. Another one came out in yearly revenue reports two weeks ago.
You also seem to be at a crossroads to where you either A: hate games that use F2P or B: hate the F2P system; however your leaning more towards B which leads bias to selection A, instantly bringing hate to all games that use a F2P system, no matter what it employs.
But most of all, if you don't like his articles. Why do you feel the need to post other than garner attention, whine and heckle.
Hate the F2P system and the gamebreaking that tends to come with it... (Mind you, not all games have gamebreaking items in their item shops...) ... Hate not the writer, Hate not the article. There is nothing wrong, unfounded or incorrect in this article, but hate the system. Hate it indeed.
I would like to speek to the statememt that was made "Why do you feel the need to post"
Pure and simple. I go to my in box. I read email asking me to join the conversation with my thoughts. I do so end of story. I cant speek to why the other fellow does it but I am sure it is the same.
I have yet to find an f2p that I like, I have tried a few just because of the op's articles. To me it all comes down to you have to buy the items in the cash shops to advance, and not having the means to do that just turns me off and I move on to something else.
Thank you for making my point. Many times the f2p evangelists on here have preached that f2p isn't designed to nickel and dime you to death. They are and they are designed to have you spend more than you would on a normal p2p sub.
Again, thank you for proving my point.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Thank you for making my point. Many times the f2p evangelists on here have preached that f2p isn't designed to nickel and dime you to death. They are and they are designed to have you spend more than you would on a normal p2p sub.
Again, thank you for proving my point.
Actually, you missed my point ENTIRELY. But no matter, you will only hear what you want to hear. No point in discussing.
First off, I reply because I can. This is an opinion site, I read it and post here to share opinions. The site would be pretty pointless if no one but yes men posted, don't you think?
Secondly, this is a site for those who follow MMOs, not Joe Average01. So is it really that much of a stretch to realize that perhaps we know a bit more about the industry than the average random player? Also, you really have to consider this in context.
My rant about him calling anyone who disagrees with him bigoted, mentally deranged and now misinformed is drawn straight from his previous articles. He is an embarrassment to this site. From the beginning he has refused to acknowledge that those who dislike aspects of the F2P market might have a point or that they even have a right to that opinion. If you don't see that he is the one who continues to take this down a very hostile road - probably because it's the only way he gets any attention - you aren't reading the same articles I am.
I'm not on some anti-F2P crusade; I just don't happen to like the business model as it has been applied to MMO gaming so far. I (and others) have cited plenty of reasons why we think it is a bad direction for MMO companies to go, why it will not "take off" in US markets to the degree it has in Asia as well as rationally stated preferences showing why we dislike it. In return we have gotten nothing but condescension and insults....so go figure why we're hostile.
I lol'd. So hard. this made my day.
Again this man speaks..Look I get the fact you work here and all that but it seems your trying to play both devils advocate as well as trying to impress apon us that you seem to know what your talking about. I can read a book and quote of a bunch of obscure things just as well. Does that mean I have a clue what im talking about half the time?
Now on to again this subject matter.
The concept of item malls and micro-transaction makes sense in this economy. alot of people cant justify paying 15 a month for a game...Its rather pointless. Case in point. I was a closed beta tester for wow. I know shame on me. However it came out I paid for it for about 4 years solid. Ok...so lets do some math here. 40 for the original game, trade in discount. Plus 48 months of 15 a month=out to $720 plus add in burning crusade and you get. 770 total I spent just on a game...Now Thats alot of money to keep paying to a company.
And due to wow success alot of companies tried to come out with something hopping to take a piece of the pie. Now consider this wow at any given time has 12million I think it is subscribers. So 15x12000000= 180 million dollars. So figuring with that amount of money they should be able to offer you alot of content as well as service. However when you look at all the failures in this realm, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate, Matrix online, etc..You begin to see that your average gamer will need more then some nifty looking game in order to keep them coming.
Now lets look at a game mentioned by another user. Eve online..first off Eve is free to play if you know what your doing and you have friends who already play and will take you along on missions to boost up your lp and isk totals. Here you have a game that has slowly gained steam over the years. now 15x250000 players = 3.75millon a month. Now considering there are a grand total of 20 people who actually work for the company thats a great paycheck. Eve it self open ended play style as well as strong roots in pvp have made it a huge success amongst true gamers.
Now what both these game, Eve and wow. have in common is a strong fan base. Wow from previous rts games and Eve from its original title, who's name alludes me at this time. None of them gaine success over night mind you. It took years of developing and time and effort. And for that they get paid.
Now comes F2p games and the wonderful world of microtransactions. Lets look at one of my personal favorites Navyfield. This game is 7 years old. Yes 7 years old. The graphics are laughable and the game is a giant pvp sluggfest of ww2 naval ships battling in a real time pvp enviroment. Its free but has micro transactions as well as subscriptions that boost xp. While yes the items you buy can actually give you a great advantage they are not needed and in some cases having a paid for account as well as crew wont matter that much if you have no skills at aiming. Navyfield shows a balance of how a item mall world should work and how it can.
However for the most part games with an item mall are almost always lacking. Lack of content will always be a bane. However many people dont care about content thus why pvp or fps games will always be successful when applying a item mall mentality. Cause lets face it. We all want to be the best. Not to mention if your broke and can afford 5 bucks to get a cape that lets you do more dps. Why not? If it makes you happy then thats all that should matter.
So for those of you who complain all day about item malls and what not. Item mall allows freedom from force fed gaming elements that you have no choice over.
In closing Richard. I know you mean well however it seems your more interested in creating Debate about a sensitive subject to gamers rather then trying to enlighten them. Item malls can work well in the right enviroment. And wow is a greed pig of game....