Very simply put, Bioware/EA will have lost me as a customer if they attempt a subscription+micro-transaction model. This includes "fluff" items, as to me, those affect gameplay just as much as do weapons, potions, etc. Why? Because MT cheapens the whole experience. I want the random drops, and the quest lines to pick up pets or cosmetic gear. Simply being able to buy them cheapens the experience for me, even if I choose not to purchase them myself.
In WoW, I spent the time and effort to actually get the Robot Chicken pet, and it was cool and a sense of achievement when others asked about it and wanted one, but wouldn't put forth the time and effort to get it.
Another example, the Westfall Chicken. Even though the internet told you exactly how to aquire one, most everybody I ran into wanted one, and didn't know how to get it.
These two experiences are simple ones used to illustrate my point about cosmetic micro-transactions and how they cheapen the experience for me. All the people I ran into who were envious of my pets but didn't want to put any time or effort into getting them, would have simply bought them in the cash shop and they would have lost all value as a special item. It's really no more than authorized gold-selling service provided by the publisher instead of some asian gold-farmer.
I think that most of us will probably play it, even with microtransactions as long as nothing in the item shop effects play much, especially pvp. If items affect play, they are going to take a big hit I believe.
In WoW, I spent the time and effort to actually get the Robot Chicken pet, and it was cool and a sense of achievement...
No matter how many pixels you'll "win" in the end, they are - and will be - only a virtual pixels. Any bad server crash can erase them from the "history".
---
Now, on-topic. As long as they do things right with microtransactions (no ancient Sith blasters + 1 000 000 for 100 USD), they will be fine. Surely, some/many "achievers" will be very unhappy, but the number (provided that Bioware does it right) will be quite low..
On the other side, they can win a huge crowd of F2P out there (not all of F2P-ers are kids or jobless beggars, you know ).
All in all, if they do something like DDO, they'll get another (paying) customer.
P.S. It is an error to brand MT's universally bad, just because most MT's owners lack any kind of vision.
I'm looking forward to this game probably more than any other game out there. The pricing has got me kind of worried though.
I'm ok with paying for the box and then having microtransactions like guild wars. If they try to combine the standard subscription model with microtransactions, I will not even bother with this game.
Let's all hope Bioware/EA doesn't get too greedy. It will kill their game.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
I'm not that excited about this release, I like the look of the game, interested to see how they handle creating an MMO, I am likely to purchase it if it retains a classic subscription model. I'm not happy with any subscription model that has micro transactions even for 'fluff', any kind of advantage, even aesthetic, cries greed and penalises those who can't afford it, either have a level playing field in a sub model or go the route of F2P like DDO has.
I'd personally prefer a lifetime subscription option like LOTRO actually.
Otherwise I'm only interested in the standard monthly subscription model whereby I have access to EVERYTHING - if I'm expected to pay micro transactions for additional components ON TOP of the monthly then definitely a deal breaker for me.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
I have a problem with subs and microtrans together especially when the microtran is for something that should have been free. For example, any game, mmo or single player, that offers DLC within a month of the release date.. means the "extra" was already complete when the game shipped.. so they had to intentionally leave it out to start the nickel and diming ASAP.
DON'T leave content out of your completed game then try to charge me for it. I KNOW what you're doing! If you're looking at Cryptic's model you better be making the best damn game ever release because they sure don't have the quality to support what they're trying to charge.
Whether a game has a cash shop, or not, isn't the deal-breaker, the deal-breaker is when the design is directly influenced, driven, directed & wholly dependant on it.
As long as the gameplay is basically untouched by the shop & the shop ADDS to the game like DDO does it, rather than the most typical cash-shop approach of using the cash-shop to un-gimp the gameplay then I'm fine with them.
I suspect that Kotaku got their knickers twisted again though, more likely is they'll follow WoW's lead by using a pay-per-hour system in it's eastern markets, the twist would be if they adopted that for an option in the western markets & also gave the eastern players the option of a sub - i.e. having multiple payment options available in ALL markets.
If you think subs + RMT = fail, I suggest that you are living in an idealised ignorance seperate from reality, WoW, EQ, and many others are using them, sucessfully, even if the principle is an unloved one, it all depends on how it's implimented & whether the game is perfectly fine & playable without it, the fact is it is a service offered as a "choice" in the best games & it is a necessity in the worst - that's what seperates the useage of RMT, you shouldn't have to buy into it, but it should be there to allow those that want it to do so on the proviso it doesn't alter the core gameplay, or allow for a "Pay to Win" scenario.
The game is a year off and already there's this speculation about pricing plans that haven't even been announced yet. I sure am glad there's nothing more important going on in the world right now
The game is a year off and already there's this speculation about pricing plans that haven't even been announced yet. I sure am glad there's nothing more important going on in the world right now
Perhaps you need to gain an appreciation of what "on topic" & "relevant context" mean, and in the context of discussing this specific game, how it is monetised, even a year away, is of considerable importance to those interested in the title.
Discussing a game here doesn't mean other issues are unimportant at all, but there's a time and a place for everything.
The game is a year off and already there's this speculation about pricing plans that haven't even been announced yet. I sure am glad there's nothing more important going on in the world right now
Well the way I see it, this is the way we get them to know that
PTP a monthly fee is ok
PTP a montly fee and Item shop that is required to go to certain places or obtain certain content is not.
If we dont speak up now about it, there is no telling what dirrection they will go.
I don't mind a fluff shop, as I don't need the extra fluff. EQ2 has a fluff shop I play it a lot and never buy stuff at the cstore, I just don't want my content gated by a cash store, item store.
I didn't read the whole thing... it as probably has been beaten to death depends on what they plan to do...
Ultima Online has had "micro transactions" for a veyr long time or paid services... I remember they did a poll once about offering paid services for DAoC but it never went anywhere.
So it could be something similar to what they do in UO.
As long as MTs are limited to fluff, I really don't care TOO much because I refuse to buy anything from the MT stores. If they start putting good BFGs and lightsabers in the store, I'm out.
Ideally of course, no P2P MMO should charge for anything other than full expansions...WTF are we paying monthly fees for? If you want to nickle and dime us, go F2P so I know to skip it entirely.
If the game offers a subscription fee that is comparable to other MMOs then I expect the same services to be included: 24/7 in game support, FULL access to the game, functioning website / forums, etc.
If the game is less than $15 / month and has some items in a cash shop to enhance gameplay in some manner I'd probably stay away because I dislike cash shop transactions. I dislike Blizzard for introducing paid pets. That killed the desire and interest in pet collecting in the game. Beyond that, it caused a few of my friends to stop playing WoW after five years.
If the game is only cash-shop driven then I don't know. I have stayed away from free to play games.
I haven't decided if I would play the Old Republic yet but if the pricing model was a hybrid that, essentially, added up to more than a regular subscription fee I wouldn't go anywhere near the game. Even with limited micro-transactions I would probably stay well away from the game.
The thing that pisses me off about RMTs is that it is so hypocritical.
If I sell my sword+2, an amount of coin, or some other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, I get the banz0r hammer. If the publisher sells the same sword+2, the same amount of coin, or the same other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, its called a EULA-compliant RMT transaction.
Its a slap in the face. What is against the EULA for me and you is now becoming regular, accepted practice for them. The sole reason why? Cause the publisher isn't getting in on the deal. In my opinion, what is being RMT'd is not important. Core gameplay item, whimsical trinket, coinage, or anything in between. In my eyes what is being sold is not the issue. The issue to me is that the 'service' they offer to us, we'd get banned for doing. Its one of the most hipocritical, slimy, transparent practices that has cropped up these days in MMOs.
RMTs are nothing but a cash grab tactic to part a fool with his money.
I am no fool.
If RMT's are in, I am out. No amount of fun, engaging gameplay is going to overshadow my opinion that this practice is hipocritical and a slap in the face.
(I won't even get into how they subtract content from single player games and releasing it NOT ONE WEEK LATER after the game goes live as DLC for $10 bucks.)
Let me pay my $15/mo and leave it at that. ANY tinkering beyond that is just blatant corporate greed, and I refuse to be manipulated like that. They're making plenty of gd money.
So what MMOs do you play, last i check just about all the ones i know hae some kind of MT
WoW
LOTRO
CoH
Can't think of one i've tried that didn;t have some kind of store
As long as there is the option to sub like in DDO, I think I would be fine with it.
And as long as the things offered in MT aren't things like overpowered gear, but rather fluff and in the case of a DDO like system, parts of the story in the game or access to certain portions of it.
If it goes with stuff like seen in classic F2P games or other nickle&dime tricks, I'll probably still play it for the story, but drop it like a brick after that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
<rant> The thing that pisses me off about RMTs is that it is so hypocritical. If I sell my sword+2, an amount of coin, or some other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, I get the banz0r hammer. If the publisher sells the same sword+2, the same amount of coin, or the same other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, its called a EULA-compliant RMT transaction. Its a slap in the face. What is against the EULA for me and you is now becoming regular, accepted practice for them. The sole reason why? Cause the publisher isn't getting in on the deal. In my opinion, what is being RMT'd is not important. Core gameplay item, whimsical trinket, coinage, or anything in between. In my eyes what is being sold is not the issue. The issue to me is that the 'service' they offer to us, we'd get banned for doing. Its one of the most hipocritical, slimy, transparent practices that has cropped up these days in MMOs. RMTs are nothing but a cash grab tactic to part a fool with his money. I am no fool. If RMT's are in, I am out. No amount of fun, engaging gameplay is going to overshadow my opinion that this practice is hipocritical and a slap in the face. (I won't even get into how they subtract content from single player games and releasing it NOT ONE WEEK LATER after the game goes live as DLC for $10 bucks.) </rant>
except most MMOs dont sell you the shiney +2 sword, they sell you green hair die
You going to tell me green hair will make you kill-things-faster?
<rant> The thing that pisses me off about RMTs is that it is so hypocritical. If I sell my sword+2, an amount of coin, or some other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, I get the banz0r hammer. If the publisher sells the same sword+2, the same amount of coin, or the same other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, its called a EULA-compliant RMT transaction. Its a slap in the face. What is against the EULA for me and you is now becoming regular, accepted practice for them. The sole reason why? Cause the publisher isn't getting in on the deal. In my opinion, what is being RMT'd is not important. Core gameplay item, whimsical trinket, coinage, or anything in between. In my eyes what is being sold is not the issue. The issue to me is that the 'service' they offer to us, we'd get banned for doing. Its one of the most hipocritical, slimy, transparent practices that has cropped up these days in MMOs. RMTs are nothing but a cash grab tactic to part a fool with his money. I am no fool. If RMT's are in, I am out. No amount of fun, engaging gameplay is going to overshadow my opinion that this practice is hipocritical and a slap in the face. (I won't even get into how they subtract content from single player games and releasing it NOT ONE WEEK LATER after the game goes live as DLC for $10 bucks.) </rant>
except most MMOs dont sell you the shiney +2 sword, they sell you green hair die
You going to tell me green hair will make you kill-things-faster?
Again, its not that RMT'ing green hair dye that makes me mad. Its the fact that if I sold that green hair dye to someone for real cash, I'd be breaking the EULA and possible get banned.
The item does not matter. Its the notion that they ban us for something that they do routinely regardless of what is being RMT'd.
If The Old Republic turned out to be a bit of a hybrid subscription/micro MMO a'la DDO Unlimited, would you still be interested in playing it? Or would such an implementation be a deal breaker for you? Let us know in the comments below!
I'd do that, you bet.
The current DDO model is not the nonsense that we see coming out of SOE (and some others now as well) where you're forced to pay a monthly fee regardless. Both the DDO and the Guild Wars models are the natural evolutionary paths for this genre. They are both unique from each other, but they both offer flexibility and value to the customer.
When they say that you have to pay a monthly subscription to get to the item mall is when I stick with my F2P MMO. If I want to pay a monthly subscription to an item mall then I'll choose the $5 / mo option in my F2P. The point, however, is that it's optional.
ill play if it is like world of warcraft and such (15 dollers a mounth)
but if i have to load extra cash and buy stuff from a primum item shop as well then im totally reconsidering.... maybe ill play final fantasy XiV instead if it turns out to be like that
Comments
Very simply put, Bioware/EA will have lost me as a customer if they attempt a subscription+micro-transaction model. This includes "fluff" items, as to me, those affect gameplay just as much as do weapons, potions, etc. Why? Because MT cheapens the whole experience. I want the random drops, and the quest lines to pick up pets or cosmetic gear. Simply being able to buy them cheapens the experience for me, even if I choose not to purchase them myself.
In WoW, I spent the time and effort to actually get the Robot Chicken pet, and it was cool and a sense of achievement when others asked about it and wanted one, but wouldn't put forth the time and effort to get it.
Another example, the Westfall Chicken. Even though the internet told you exactly how to aquire one, most everybody I ran into wanted one, and didn't know how to get it.
These two experiences are simple ones used to illustrate my point about cosmetic micro-transactions and how they cheapen the experience for me. All the people I ran into who were envious of my pets but didn't want to put any time or effort into getting them, would have simply bought them in the cash shop and they would have lost all value as a special item. It's really no more than authorized gold-selling service provided by the publisher instead of some asian gold-farmer.
I think that most of us will probably play it, even with microtransactions as long as nothing in the item shop effects play much, especially pvp. If items affect play, they are going to take a big hit I believe.
My two cents ...
and not a penny more!
In WoW, I spent the time and effort to actually get the Robot Chicken pet, and it was cool and a sense of achievement...
No matter how many pixels you'll "win" in the end, they are - and will be - only a virtual pixels. Any bad server crash can erase them from the "history".
---
Now, on-topic. As long as they do things right with microtransactions (no ancient Sith blasters + 1 000 000 for 100 USD), they will be fine. Surely, some/many "achievers" will be very unhappy, but the number (provided that Bioware does it right) will be quite low..
On the other side, they can win a huge crowd of F2P out there (not all of F2P-ers are kids or jobless beggars, you know
).
All in all, if they do something like DDO, they'll get another (paying) customer.
P.S. It is an error to brand MT's universally bad, just because most MT's owners lack any kind of vision.
[mod edit]
I'm looking forward to this game probably more than any other game out there. The pricing has got me kind of worried though.
I'm ok with paying for the box and then having microtransactions like guild wars. If they try to combine the standard subscription model with microtransactions, I will not even bother with this game.
Let's all hope Bioware/EA doesn't get too greedy. It will kill their game.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
I'm not that excited about this release, I like the look of the game, interested to see how they handle creating an MMO, I am likely to purchase it if it retains a classic subscription model. I'm not happy with any subscription model that has micro transactions even for 'fluff', any kind of advantage, even aesthetic, cries greed and penalises those who can't afford it, either have a level playing field in a sub model or go the route of F2P like DDO has.
I'd personally prefer a lifetime subscription option like LOTRO actually.
Otherwise I'm only interested in the standard monthly subscription model whereby I have access to EVERYTHING - if I'm expected to pay micro transactions for additional components ON TOP of the monthly then definitely a deal breaker for me.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
I have a problem with subs and microtrans together especially when the microtran is for something that should have been free. For example, any game, mmo or single player, that offers DLC within a month of the release date.. means the "extra" was already complete when the game shipped.. so they had to intentionally leave it out to start the nickel and diming ASAP.
DON'T leave content out of your completed game then try to charge me for it. I KNOW what you're doing! If you're looking at Cryptic's model you better be making the best damn game ever release because they sure don't have the quality to support what they're trying to charge.
Whether a game has a cash shop, or not, isn't the deal-breaker, the deal-breaker is when the design is directly influenced, driven, directed & wholly dependant on it.
As long as the gameplay is basically untouched by the shop & the shop ADDS to the game like DDO does it, rather than the most typical cash-shop approach of using the cash-shop to un-gimp the gameplay then I'm fine with them.
I suspect that Kotaku got their knickers twisted again though, more likely is they'll follow WoW's lead by using a pay-per-hour system in it's eastern markets, the twist would be if they adopted that for an option in the western markets & also gave the eastern players the option of a sub - i.e. having multiple payment options available in ALL markets.
If you think subs + RMT = fail, I suggest that you are living in an idealised ignorance seperate from reality, WoW, EQ, and many others are using them, sucessfully, even if the principle is an unloved one, it all depends on how it's implimented & whether the game is perfectly fine & playable without it, the fact is it is a service offered as a "choice" in the best games & it is a necessity in the worst - that's what seperates the useage of RMT, you shouldn't have to buy into it, but it should be there to allow those that want it to do so on the proviso it doesn't alter the core gameplay, or allow for a "Pay to Win" scenario.
The game is a year off and already there's this speculation about pricing plans that haven't even been announced yet. I sure am glad there's nothing more important going on in the world right now
Perhaps you need to gain an appreciation of what "on topic" & "relevant context" mean, and in the context of discussing this specific game, how it is monetised, even a year away, is of considerable importance to those interested in the title.
Discussing a game here doesn't mean other issues are unimportant at all, but there's a time and a place for everything.
Well the way I see it, this is the way we get them to know that
PTP a monthly fee is ok
PTP a montly fee and Item shop that is required to go to certain places or obtain certain content is not.
If we dont speak up now about it, there is no telling what dirrection they will go.
I don't mind a fluff shop, as I don't need the extra fluff. EQ2 has a fluff shop I play it a lot and never buy stuff at the cstore, I just don't want my content gated by a cash store, item store.
I didn't read the whole thing... it as probably has been beaten to death depends on what they plan to do...
Ultima Online has had "micro transactions" for a veyr long time or paid services... I remember they did a poll once about offering paid services for DAoC but it never went anywhere.
So it could be something similar to what they do in UO.
We'll have to wait and see...
As long as MTs are limited to fluff, I really don't care TOO much because I refuse to buy anything from the MT stores. If they start putting good BFGs and lightsabers in the store, I'm out.
Ideally of course, no P2P MMO should charge for anything other than full expansions...WTF are we paying monthly fees for? If you want to nickle and dime us, go F2P so I know to skip it entirely.
I vote no CS/MT.
If the game offers a subscription fee that is comparable to other MMOs then I expect the same services to be included: 24/7 in game support, FULL access to the game, functioning website / forums, etc.
If the game is less than $15 / month and has some items in a cash shop to enhance gameplay in some manner I'd probably stay away because I dislike cash shop transactions. I dislike Blizzard for introducing paid pets. That killed the desire and interest in pet collecting in the game. Beyond that, it caused a few of my friends to stop playing WoW after five years.
If the game is only cash-shop driven then I don't know. I have stayed away from free to play games.
I haven't decided if I would play the Old Republic yet but if the pricing model was a hybrid that, essentially, added up to more than a regular subscription fee I wouldn't go anywhere near the game. Even with limited micro-transactions I would probably stay well away from the game.
<rant>
The thing that pisses me off about RMTs is that it is so hypocritical.
If I sell my sword+2, an amount of coin, or some other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, I get the banz0r hammer. If the publisher sells the same sword+2, the same amount of coin, or the same other shiny whiz-bang to Jimbo Brown subscriber for $5, its called a EULA-compliant RMT transaction.
Its a slap in the face. What is against the EULA for me and you is now becoming regular, accepted practice for them. The sole reason why? Cause the publisher isn't getting in on the deal. In my opinion, what is being RMT'd is not important. Core gameplay item, whimsical trinket, coinage, or anything in between. In my eyes what is being sold is not the issue. The issue to me is that the 'service' they offer to us, we'd get banned for doing. Its one of the most hipocritical, slimy, transparent practices that has cropped up these days in MMOs.
RMTs are nothing but a cash grab tactic to part a fool with his money.
I am no fool.
If RMT's are in, I am out. No amount of fun, engaging gameplay is going to overshadow my opinion that this practice is hipocritical and a slap in the face.
(I won't even get into how they subtract content from single player games and releasing it NOT ONE WEEK LATER after the game goes live as DLC for $10 bucks.)
</rant>
I'm not creative enough to have a signature
So what MMOs do you play, last i check just about all the ones i know hae some kind of MT
WoW
LOTRO
CoH
Can't think of one i've tried that didn;t have some kind of store
As long as there is the option to sub like in DDO, I think I would be fine with it.
And as long as the things offered in MT aren't things like overpowered gear, but rather fluff and in the case of a DDO like system, parts of the story in the game or access to certain portions of it.
If it goes with stuff like seen in classic F2P games or other nickle&dime tricks, I'll probably still play it for the story, but drop it like a brick after that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
except most MMOs dont sell you the shiney +2 sword, they sell you green hair die
You going to tell me green hair will make you kill-things-faster?
except most MMOs dont sell you the shiney +2 sword, they sell you green hair die
You going to tell me green hair will make you kill-things-faster?
Again, its not that RMT'ing green hair dye that makes me mad. Its the fact that if I sold that green hair dye to someone for real cash, I'd be breaking the EULA and possible get banned.
The item does not matter. Its the notion that they ban us for something that they do routinely regardless of what is being RMT'd.
I'm not creative enough to have a signature
I'd do that, you bet.
The current DDO model is not the nonsense that we see coming out of SOE (and some others now as well) where you're forced to pay a monthly fee regardless. Both the DDO and the Guild Wars models are the natural evolutionary paths for this genre. They are both unique from each other, but they both offer flexibility and value to the customer.
When they say that you have to pay a monthly subscription to get to the item mall is when I stick with my F2P MMO. If I want to pay a monthly subscription to an item mall then I'll choose the $5 / mo option in my F2P. The point, however, is that it's optional.
ill play if it is like world of warcraft and such (15 dollers a mounth)
but if i have to load extra cash and buy stuff from a primum item shop as well then im totally reconsidering.... maybe ill play final fantasy XiV instead if it turns out to be like that
I hope they take a look a Cryptic's CO and STO to find out what not to do.
Of course we are talking about BioWare here, professionals, not amateurs.
Whatever pricing scheme they have will most likely be fare, Because they know if it is not they will hear about it.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
yah im sure your right i just hope they keep it to a mounthly fee nothing else!