Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
No More Quests!
A 3D MMO without quest-based advancement that isn't Everquest 1. Does it exist?
Why? Quest-based advancement encourages and rewards players for solo play. You can be on the same level as your friend but he can be five quests ahead of you in the chain. He has to basically stall his own advancement for a time to help you catch up or you have to catch up while he is offline. Some quests even actively punish you for playing with another in the form of a quest that requires several things that only drop some of the time. Basically every person in your group doing such a quest effectively multiplies the number of things you have to fight to get everything everyone needs to turn in.
I'm not anti-solo. But the way all these games seem to follow is anti-group. I'm tired of logging into the next new game like Allods or something and seeing many dozens of players but nobody is interacting except to be asinine in the /ooc chat or ask questions. I'm sick of the WoW model of solo for a month to max level your toon and then others will be interested in playing with you. If I want to play a single-player game I'll do it without a monthly fee, thank you very much.
Does such a game exist? Or is all just shades of Warcraft?
Comments
Darkfall, but once you get there, youll be coming right back to complain about how hard it is.
just keep the faith. more and more people are clamboring for non quest based sandbox adventure games. just positively comment whenever you see topics on such here and elsewhere.
I'm looking for the same thing buddy. Vanguard came fairly close, they had less quests, but they were so much more interesting, in depth, and story driven. Many of the long quest chains were standalone raid quality content.
But sadly, most MMOs these days are quest grinders, though I don't know how they have the nerve to call them quests. It really is a shame, even if anyone groups to do a group step in a quest line, its just for like, 5 minutes, with no one talking, then a disband.
RuneScape.
Darkfall. Other than the few n00b quests to get you used to the game, and out exploring, there is really no questing involved.
Thankfully.
There are plenty of reasons to do things in the game without the need for an NPC to tell you to.
off topic- Your sig is terrifying....What movie is that from pls?
On topic- I agree. Quests are a worse grind than grinding =/
off topic- Your sig is terrifying....What movie is that from pls?
On topic- I agree. Quests are a worse grind than grinding =/
Silent Hill, after the credits.
Awesome tyvm
Ryzom doesn't have that many quests. As far as I remember just the ones on the beginner island and a handful when you get to the mainland.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Darkfall: I've been on the fence about it. First off, it looks like butt. And second, I'm not always out to PvP. I'll probably try it out at some point. From all accounts tho, the NPC world is sparse and lifeless. Not much immersion, not that's very important to me but I don't like feeling like everywhere is a ghost town when no other player is around.
Ryzom: Teeny tiny community that is very top-heavy. Not a bad thing except when you consider that the different skills have over 100 levels to them. I guess vet players with maxed out toons might be willing to help me grind out of sheer boredom, but that's really about all the group action I can expect. And while in Darkfall I can build boats and cities and make an impact on the land, in Ryzom you can play with the level editor and engage in goaless PvP or look at the pretty scenery for the billionth time.
Everquest 1 was really fun and social before the end game dungeon raids were discovered and all the emphasis put on that (DIAF, Tigole). SWG was great for grouping mostly during the CU. Grouping was encouraged by greater XP gain and easier to take out targets, any level could group together with no penalty, and maxed out characters were constantly grinding to redo their character skills and get XP for the Jedi grind so there was always someone to play with. Granted EQ1 got boring because everyone took the path of least resistance, causing a handful of zones to be overcrowded while the majority were empty. SWG during the CU people only got together at a single base on a single planet and everywhere else was left unused. There are solutions to such things though.
Also note I'm not necessarily asking for a sandbox game here. I'm just saying that the way quests are done now is to penalize you if you want to play with others. I would gladly resub to WoW if I was rewarded for grouping instead of given incentive not to.
http://mmo-hell.blogspot.com/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/rejad
I've seen a few threads here lately with people complaining about quests, and it struck me as odd. Of course, I'm of the mindset that quests are the backbone of an RPG, MMO or otherwise, so I'm curious... Is the complaint about questing in general or is it because quests in MMOs tend to lean towards boring and uninteresting? Would there be a greater demand for them if developers found new methods of storytelling via questing that would break away from the usuall "Go kill 2325356467645654 red foozles and bring me their whatchamacallits" format?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
The only alternative for questing seems to be grinding and we all know too well, it's not really fun on a long term basis.
How about having quest chains where you can join in with you friends on any given step?
-
Group based quests, where different members need to do different tasks or actually have to work as a team to complete the quest.
-
PvP Quests where you have to sabotage enemy players quest progression (in a somewhat fair way)? (WAR)
-
Quests where you have to decide between being good or evil and have to face the consequences. (The Witcher)
-
More riddles!
-
Well written stories where you actually HAVE to read to complete the quest. (Vanguard)
-
Exploring dangerous zones.
-
[...]
How hasn't anyone mentioned FFXI yet? Anarchy Online is another. Basically any MMo that was released before WoW. I'd say those are your two best options though, most of them have really low populations 'cause they're old while FFXI still has a really high pop.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Asheron's Call yet. Hardly any quests, non instanced dungeons, hybrid level/skill based advancement. If you can get past the dated graphics/interface, it's worth a look. Only real problem I have is that I can't really justify paying $12/mo. for a game this dated.
On a completely unrelated note, I just took advantage of the $2.50 EQ package on STEAM, and am enjoying myself thoroughly so far.
This is dumb. What if people generally like quests? Just cause there's a few MMO snobs who think quests are bad for whatever reason doesn't mean they don't have their place in MMOs.
I'm beginning the think the best MMOs will be hybrid sandbox/themepark MMOs. A huge sandbox with many, many possibilities for people to create their own stories in, and a robust quest system and storyline.
Why must the two be mutually exclusive? Why are quests seen as tools of the devil?
I love quests.
I HATE quest only advancement games like WoW and LotRO, where if you want to have a prayer of leveling up, you HAVE to do quests.
I HATE the new generation of gamers, who have no idea what to do or where to go if a town doesn't have a billion quests in it.
Quests served a purpose in old MMOs, I loved doing them. They told great story, set up unique encounters, and made you feel more a part of the world.
In NEW MMOs, quests serve another purpose, lead the player by the nose and shower him with experience and items while they skip the text and follow the GPS mini map to where they need to go.
Less quests, higher quality, not the main way to level up, and we're golden.
Let me try to explain what quests were like before the mainstream stepped into the industry.
The first MMO's that were 3D:
DAoC (Dark Age of Camelot) - Quests were kind of taskish, but doesn't mean you had to do them. Didn't play it as much as the next two though.
Everquest - Quests are what made the game great. Instead of being in one zone to complete a quest you would have to travel to many zones and collect items. Not only was it xp in the end but you would get an item most likely. The quests weren't also forced on the players. You could get great gear by just killing monsters and going to the marketplace which made quests unique and cherishable.
Asheron's Call - Quests were level restricted, but not as a guide to get to the next level. They had more quests that required you to do quests before hand then any other MMO I know of. For instance you could be doing this one quest to get a recall spell for an island, but you would have to flag yourself to be able to do the quest by doing one before hand.
*****NEVER (EXCEPT FOR DAoC) have I ever had to kill more than one monster as a quest. No killing lizards, bears, or any monster you can think of 10 times just to recieve a pair of gloves and a little xp.*******
The mainstream of today -
WoW - You start questing at lvl 1 and is the fastest and most efficient way of leveling.
Aion - Same as WoW
Everquest 2 - Had some aspects of Everquest but totally revamped it's way of questing to the liking of WoW's.
Warhammer - Like WoW, but with more options of getting to end game then just quests.
Now this is mainstream today and I don't totally hate it, I just wish it wasn't "mainstream". More and more MMO's today aren't about keeping the players subscription, but it is more of a "how can I snatch an extra buck from the players?" concept. Why is it like this? Well WoW has the majority of subscriptions and their only goal is to keep them. While other MMO's struggle to keep subscriptions they find ways to get players to pay more than just the monthly. People don't want to blame WoW for ruining what an MMO was about, but I certainly do...
Oku foogle - Asheron's Call
have yet to understand why people want singleplayer quests as the main advancement in MMOs, todays standard is so frigging boring, and no where near as fun as "real" singleplayer RPGs...even in WoW that for sure have the best singleplayer experience and a well made world (the artstyle apart aint fond of that), I hate the solo quest grind, mainly with the fact in mind this costs a fee to play for no real reason and its still dragged out due to needing people to play for more than "just" 50 or so hours.
have yet to understand why people want singleplayer quests as the main advancement in MMOs, todays standard is so frigging boring, and no where near as fun as "real" singleplayer RPGs...even in WoW that for sure have the best singleplayer experience and a well made world (the artstyle apart aint fond of that), I hate the solo quest grind, mainly with the fact in mind this costs a fee to play for no real reason and its still dragged out due to needing people to play for more than "just" 50 or so hours.
I don't think it is the idea of questing. I think it is the quests themselves in current games. Most if not all are just click to accept and kill x at spot y. No thinking involved or meaningful interaction. In fact most of today's games have no meaningful interaction at all when you stop and think about it.
Some new games for next year are going to try to change the questing system a bit. Dynamic events will be quests that are just happening in the world. If you are there, you and anyone else can just join in to help each other. This will have an effect based on the outcome. The new games will also have actuall stories being told. This will also change how we view quests IMO.
We will have a personal story that we can run through to learn about our characters. And one will even have choice that changes your quest objective, reward, alignment and future quests. This will give you a background to your character and allow you to progress your personal story. At the same time, there will be a world story that you can get involved with in groups. So your personal story and progression helps you get attached to your character. While the world story gives you a reason to group and interact with the community. All through questing.
So I don't think the questing idea is the problem. It is the way we have been given quests. They have become meaningless and just in the way to getting to end game, "the real game" some say. But we may be moving forward with new games in regard to questing. But as always, we will have to wait and see how it turns out.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I agree with this. The old MMOs used to have you do quest that were game changing. The goal would be something like defeat the evil witch in her castle to stop the darkness and you will restore peace to the castle. Then the castle would open up and be like the main city in the game where everyone would gather to talk and have fun. But in order to defeat the witch you first had to get to her at the top. So you would have two choices, either go head on and defeat the guards in the front or fine a way to sneak in. Well then you could venture off on to an island to find someone who could transform you into a mouse so you could sneak in that way. You can continue doing many different things in order to progress.
Point is that now everything seems to be point and click with questing.
Darkfall and Mortal Online are the only games I know where the focus isn't on questing. However, I wouldn't recommend Mortal Online yet because it isn't as good as it could be right now.
Well FFXI is the ONL Ygame that is not the same questing treadmill,but it does have a quest and Mission system.basically they are not something you have to do but eventually ,you need to unlock the other zones by doing the misions ,which so happens are also part of the story line.
The main game play for FFXI is enjoying your player and the challenge of the combat.it is of course designed to be grouping,but it is possible to solo AFTER you earn the right and even then it is skillfull to solo in the game.You will NEVER experience another class like the RedMage class in FFXI,it does not exist in any game,but it is a busy class forever needed and forever challenging to keep up with your workload.However ALL the classes are unique and imo fun to play,i had fun playing every single class class, i can not say that about any other game.
The challenge in FFXi is to also LEARN your player,think outside the bubble,because each class can do some tricky things people would never think of.
Soon both GW2 and Rift will deliver a dynamic events type system.Rift will still have the questing treadmill but at least offers some alternative to game play.GW2 i believe will not have the questing treadmill,is that to save money on developement,or are they trying to deliver a better experience ,only time will ltell.
To show how shallow game designers are ,SWTOR is spending massive amounts of money on their game and it will still end up a questing treadmill but with voice acting.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Unfortunately, I would be willing to bet that Vanguard is more like the original EQ than EQ next will be, but now you have such a low population that you would probably wish that there were more solo quests as you may get stuck on many group required ones and most people still in that game are probably level 50 doing the little bit of raiding that the game has. It would definitely be worth checking out if you can find another large group of people willing to start out with you as it is still currently more like EQ than EQ2 is.
Darkfall in my opinion is definitely the best option for an open world game at the moment, no matter if you like PVP or not. The combat and how it feels to interact with mobs once you have down the basics of the game, is hard to match because they feel so much more realistic than other games. The grind that people complain about is not as bad as the original EQ (the gear is much easier to replace as well . .. its not like you would be camping mobs for several weeks for that chance of an epic spawn to drop some piece of loot that you could lose if you died on the PVP server). It is such a group oriented game that the only safe zones are maintained by clans taking claim to certain areas and keeping everyone else out. You say that you are not always out to PVP and you pretty much need this mindset to get the most out of Darkfall, because the PVP can be as little as once a week for many people but always there if you are feeling feisty and easy to avoid if you just want to PVE (my GF plays it almost everyday mostly by herself, which is much riskier than travelling in a group, and she only dies twice a week at most). The end-game content pretty much requires a group of people to succeed in anything, whether it is PVE or PVP. Try out the free trial and join NEW clan (http://www.newonagon.com/) to get a taste of what I consider to be the funnest game in development (game is relaunching with direct x11 support, new graphics, prestige classes, and animations @ beginning of next year). It is currently the only game that will get your heart racing at times and give you shaky hands and adrenaline like no other, probably because no other game associates twich-based with risk like this one does.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Play FFXIV, it has no quests and is one of the most successful MMO's this year. An MMO without quests is guaranted ticket to success.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Really bad news is that there is nothing really in development for this market it seems, just Darkfall and a few others that seem to be pretty far behind it. I am hoping that there is some huge game in development that nobody knows about, but as far as all of the hype out there goes, I only believe the part where someone can play GW2 very casually and have a good time, but I do not see myself getting into any game that is coming out soon as a main game or anything more than a casual game that I get sick of after a month or a couple days. I have a hunch that GW2 will be worth its money though and will keep me happy (on just the instant PVP gratification side though, nothing else). I only enjoy risky PVE, like when going deep into an oldschool EQ dungeon, and nobody seems to care about that anymore enough.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Hm, quests are for soloers only? Man have you ever seen the differance in reward for doing solo quests compared to group quests? Well I'm still to play a mmorpg that gives solo players decent reward for doing any quests,only thing you get for those are some crap gear and lausy xp.I have played most major mmorpg on the market.
I'm the kind of guy who hates to stay in a place and kill thousands of mobs without any reason. That's boring. But I hate how the leveling feels in wow too. I kinda love the quests but quests do indeed turn the game into a single player and I want to play with others. Don't want the leveling to be a tutorial but a challenge and not a single player game.
So I don't like the FFXIV type of killing without reason and neither the single player leveling of wow. Is there a 3rd way? Will we ever see a revolutionary idea? Where quests do not discourage the teaming up but highly incourage it.