lol sounds like someone who is stuck in the past and living in nostalgia if you cant have fun and enjoy new mmos these days
Some people have a narrow range of what they enjoy and if nothing new fits within that there is nothing for them to move forward to. There is not much sense in playing a new MMORPG if to that person it is neither fun or enjoyable.
Perhaps when Monsters & Memories comes out it will provide a refuge for some of those lamenting here.
Well I'm not stuck in the past because I just stopped gaming and found new things to do. As for Monsters and Memories, I just checked it out and I'm not interested in it. The problem is I do not want to go back to playing old games, I want new experiences that make me feel like what those old games made me feel back in the day. Just no one is innovating anymore, everything seems established and it bores me. The last game that truly made me go "wow" was when I tried my friend's VR headset at work, I played this game called "Rec Room" and that was amazing. So I waited for a VR MMO to come that never did and instead VR died, so I never ended up buying a headset myself.
Similar story here. Played Runescape/AC2 early on and then SWG. After SOE destroyed SWG (RIP), tried Entropia Universe (keeping with a Sci-Fi theme) and then WOW for a few years but eventually got tired of the daily 12 hour PVP grind sessions in WOW and couldn't get past the EU learning curve/money requirements. Was hoping Vanguard would be the next great thing but that was a disaster. Enjoyed Darkfall Online for a bit hoping WOW would be replaced with a new 2.0 version, but it soon became clear Blizzard was going to instead just milk their cash machine forever. Shifted to BR games for a while (PUBG/Fortnite) in 2017, hoping for some new MMORPGs to be released but really haven't found anything worthwhile other than a few months playing Sea of Thieves.
Interestingly enough, the only game I have been playing (on and off for almost 20 years, now on almost daily since 2020) is EU. I guess it fills the Sci-Fi void from SWG all those years ago (I tried Eve and SWKOR but couldn't get into either game really).
Ironically, when I started gaming 20+ years ago, I was a broke kid with a lot of time, so the grindy games (and monthly charge of 9.99/14.99 put on parents CC) fit well with my situation. Now, I have a lot less time and other interests but an actual income, so EU is a little more tolerable (just a little though). Sadly, I'm stuck playing a RNG, RCE game, with a very small player base but that seems to be my only link left to the old school games. Maybe down the road, another MMORPG is released that grabs my attention after 15+ years of searching.
Regardless, there are a lot of great MMORPGs out there (just not for me right now) and it has still been a fun journey with a lot of good memories and friends that have been made along the way.
lol sounds like someone who is stuck in the past and living in nostalgia if you cant have fun and enjoy new mmos these days
Some people have a narrow range of what they enjoy and if nothing new fits within that there is nothing for them to move forward to. There is not much sense in playing a new MMORPG if to that person it is neither fun or enjoyable.
Perhaps when Monsters & Memories comes out it will provide a refuge for some of those lamenting here.
Well I'm not stuck in the past because I just stopped gaming and found new things to do. As for Monsters and Memories, I just checked it out and I'm not interested in it. The problem is I do not want to go back to playing old games, I want new experiences that make me feel like what those old games made me feel back in the day. Just no one is innovating anymore, everything seems established and it bores me. The last game that truly made me go "wow" was when I tried my friend's VR headset at work, I played this game called "Rec Room" and that was amazing. So I waited for a VR MMO to come that never did and instead VR died, so I never ended up buying a headset myself.
Nobody is stuck in the past. Some simply prefer how games were in the past over how they are now, with some of those wanting similar but contemporary games.
There are no new experiences to be had, but there have been innovations in the way those familiar are had. VR MMORPGs would have been nothing more than that if the technology had succeeded, a variation on themes long standing with a new shiny coating. Once the novelty wore off people would ache again for innovation. It's a never ending cycle.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm just tired of mmorpgs for the most part because they all follow wow's formula of quest hub to quest hub rush to level cap to do raids for gear that serves no more purpose. I find that sort of mmorpg very boring as they often have nothing to do at level cap besides those raids, and once you get the gear which can take a long time there is nothing to actually use it for, so it just feels like a giant waste of time in the end. Granted playing games in general is a waste of time, I am not gonna deny that, but it feels especially bad when you spend months to get a item only to have nothing to actually use it for.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
I'm just tired of mmorpgs for the most part because they all follow wow's formula of quest hub to quest hub rush to level cap to do raids for gear that serves no more purpose. I find that sort of mmorpg very boring as they often have nothing to do at level cap besides those raids, and once you get the gear which can take a long time there is nothing to actually use it for, so it just feels like a giant waste of time in the end. Granted playing games in general is a waste of time, I am not gonna deny that, but it feels especially bad when you spend months to get a item only to have nothing to actually use it for.
You would stand around and show it off until the next expansion came out which made it useless and easy to get..... Though now you just buy it.... lol.
At least in SWG you socialised your way to being best mates with the server's best crafter. Then you used that gear to grind for the money to buy that gear again when it degraded.
I fell in love with MMORPGs when I started playing Everquest. I am unable however to devote 12-13 hours of my time to playing like that any more. That stopped with Everquest and FFXI and wasn't even close to how much I spent on WoW. These days I simply cannot do it. Some of these games are just too much and I cannot keep up with the people I want to play with. They all outpace me and worst of all they all want to raid. I don't want that any more. I really despise raiding. I used to enjoy it but not any more. I have outgrown this genre I feel.
I meet people I like but they all play way more than I do. That is why these days I solo MMORPGs. Sue me I am one of those people responsible for the direction of MMORPGs these days. I feel the loss but am secretly happy when I find them way more accessible too. It's a clash I am guilty of liking.
It's not even about PvP or PvE too I realised because I was in a guild in Dark Age of Camelot and loved the battlegrounds there. So I can totally do organised PvP. Throne and Liberty is supposed to be that end game but the time, oh the time, where will I find it. I cannot do it. It's just too much. I can spend may be 100 over hours or even 300 hours on ARPGs and JRPGs but not on MMORPGs because of the human drama that soils things along the way. I know this sounds like an excuse but people have changed a lot and not for the better and I am disinclined to mingle.
We don't need new games, we need better stewards of the existing games
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I found ESO and Vanguard to be fun and definitely worthwhile. FFXIV also came out long after 2004 and many people enjoy that. So I don't agree that no new and interesting MMO's have come out since 2004
MMO's are probably more complex to develop than most games, and many don't bring in enough money to justify the large up front cost. Games like Fortnite have proliferated. These are much simpler to develop and can bring in huge amounts of money.
I fell in love with MMORPGs when I started playing Everquest. I am unable however to devote 12-13 hours of my time to playing like that any more. That stopped with Everquest and FFXI and wasn't even close to how much I spent on WoW. These days I simply cannot do it. Some of these games are just too much and I cannot keep up with the people I want to play with. They all outpace me and worst of all they all want to raid. I don't want that any more. I really despise raiding. I used to enjoy it but not any more. I have outgrown this genre I feel.
I meet people I like but they all play way more than I do. That is why these days I solo MMORPGs. Sue me I am one of those people responsible for the direction of MMORPGs these days. I feel the loss but am secretly happy when I find them way more accessible too. It's a clash I am guilty of liking.
It's not even about PvP or PvE too I realised because I was in a guild in Dark Age of Camelot and loved the battlegrounds there. So I can totally do organised PvP. Throne and Liberty is supposed to be that end game but the time, oh the time, where will I find it. I cannot do it. It's just too much. I can spend may be 100 over hours or even 300 hours on ARPGs and JRPGs but not on MMORPGs because of the human drama that soils things along the way. I know this sounds like an excuse but people have changed a lot and not for the better and I am disinclined to mingle.
Yeah, I think the gamer population has matured a lot over the years, and this is a big issue.
MMO's are probably more complex to develop than most games, and many don't bring in enough money to justify the large up front cost.
I dont agree, ESO has made billions.
Even New World has made a billion.
All they have to do is put out a decent (doesnt even have to be great) product and make a billion dollars.
The real question is why do these Dev teams keep pushing out garbage over and over and forced to layoff their staff. Why are MMO's studios so disconnected from their customer base.
Games like, Eldenring, BG3 and Palworld seem to make plenty of money.
Seems like MMO devs are just morons. They are too focused on making games they want instead of games Customers want. They need to hire some player consultants that understand the "real" playerbase.
The biggest challenge for an MMO technologically is the backend. This is exponentially harder if you aren't going to instance content. High concurrency with security is not easy. Eldenring and BG3 are single player and don't have to deal with that whole side of programming. Not having to hire an entire team of expert network, security , and server programmers saves a ton on your budget as does not having to provision severs.
I think a big trap for MMO developers is they get wrapped around the axel on the backend and it distracts from focusing on building a good game. However if they ignore the back end you get New World and all the issues with exploits, lag, sever stability, and disconnects under high load.
It's not an easy problem to solve. All you armchair experts are more than welcome to raise the $200 million it takes to build one and show us how it's done, though.
The biggest challenge for an MMO technologically is the backend. (snip) It's not an easy problem to solve.
This is not the problem.
Its not like there are all these amazingly fun games out there with backend problems forcing everyone to quit. If there was 100 MMO's that were so fun, but had backend problems that made it unplayable then maybe you would have a point.
The main problem is trashy games. Game devs in the MMO space cant seem to repeat the success from a decade+ ago.
MMO game studios are completely out of sync with customers and that is the main reason new MMO's cant retain their customers anymore.
Its sad that games from 20 years ago are better than the ones releasing now.
Once Devs figure out how to make good games again, MMO's will be popular again and the owners of the studio will bankroll.
I just do not buy the argument of not having enough time to play because you can only dedicate a handful of hours a week now. Well then you're the perfect person to play MMOs as you will not stand around bored at end game complaining. The only difference is you probably wont be raiding, but that is fine, not all content has to be for you.
MMO's are probably more complex to develop than most games, and many don't bring in enough money to justify the large up front cost.
I dont agree, ESO has made billions.
Even New World has made a billion.
All they have to do is put out a decent (doesnt even have to be great) product and make a billion dollars.
For comparison, Fortnite is estimated to have made over $26 Billion so far. Estimates of the development cost are around $200 million. Same estimate for New World, $200 million.
If you were an investor, would you put up $200 million to make a billion? or to make 26 billion?
I think the problem is very few people play the same game for years or decades, so almost every mmorpg just fail after a few month or year.
And actually theme park games like wow have more longevity. Or ARPG for that matter.
You take a mmorpg which is released and 95% of the players quit after a few month. And that is pretty much every single mmorpg out there.
The issue here is that most games are made with fixed content. Once that's run through, they need to add more, but they can't keep up with the player's needs.
Change that, and there's no "end" to the game. How that is changed seems to me to be very important. There are other issues, such as Player Division because of Power Gaps. This is especially important as the game matures and players create alternate Characters, and for newer players. In other words, you can't just keep adding levels. Refusing to address this, just because of a desire for the impossible (keep it the same despite the problems) doesn't change anything.
I just do not buy the argument of not having enough time to play because you can only dedicate a handful of hours a week now. Well then you're the perfect person to play MMOs as you will not stand around bored at end game complaining. The only difference is you probably wont be raiding, but that is fine, not all content has to be for you.
Depends on the game you’re playing. If you’re thinking of games like Elderscrolls Online or World of Warcraft then sure.
Traditional Korean grinders? Not so much.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think the problem is very few people play the same game for years or decades, so almost every mmorpg just fail after a few month or year.
And actually theme park games like wow have more longevity. Or ARPG for that matter.
You take a mmorpg which is released and 95% of the players quit after a few month. And that is pretty much every single mmorpg out there.
The issue here is that most games are made with fixed content. Once that's run through, they need to add more, but they can't keep up with the player's needs.
Change that, and there's no "end" to the game. How that is changed seems to me to be very important. There are other issues, such as Player Division because of Power Gaps. This is especially important as the game matures and players create alternate Characters, and for newer players. In other words, you can't just keep adding levels. Refusing to address this, just because of a desire for the impossible (keep it the same despite the problems) doesn't change anything.
Is there any existing mmorpg which fit your criteria of no fixed content and the world just evolve on your own?
Of is it just an ideal which no one have made possible yet.
Or probably minecraft, probably which why it is popular.
MMO's are probably more complex to develop than most games, and many don't bring in enough money to justify the large up front cost.
I dont agree, ESO has made billions.
Even New World has made a billion.
All they have to do is put out a decent (doesnt even have to be great) product and make a billion dollars.
For comparison, Fortnite is estimated to have made over $26 Billion so far. Estimates of the development cost are around $200 million. Same estimate for New World, $200 million.
If you were an investor, would you put up $200 million to make a billion? or to make 26 billion?
Yeah I am not sure your point here. Tell me what game I can invest in where I can get a 13000% profit? Obviously people will invest if they can get 130X times their investment. The issue is thats extemely lucky.
However there is nothing saying that another MMO could not do the same thing if it was good.
Until a new game that is better than WoW is released, we wont know. But its not impossible.
On the other side, there should be no reason a game that makes 5x the investment or 800% profit shouldnt be able to get investors.
The only reasons these devs teams cant get investors, is because nobody trusts them to make a popular MMO. Dev teams dont even care about the money anymore.
Comments
Interestingly enough, the only game I have been playing (on and off for almost 20 years, now on almost daily since 2020) is EU. I guess it fills the Sci-Fi void from SWG all those years ago (I tried Eve and SWKOR but couldn't get into either game really).
Ironically, when I started gaming 20+ years ago, I was a broke kid with a lot of time, so the grindy games (and monthly charge of 9.99/14.99 put on parents CC) fit well with my situation. Now, I have a lot less time and other interests but an actual income, so EU is a little more tolerable (just a little though). Sadly, I'm stuck playing a RNG, RCE game, with a very small player base but that seems to be my only link left to the old school games. Maybe down the road, another MMORPG is released that grabs my attention after 15+ years of searching.
Regardless, there are a lot of great MMORPGs out there (just not for me right now) and it has still been a fun journey with a lot of good memories and friends that have been made along the way.
Nobody is stuck in the past. Some simply prefer how games were in the past over how they are now, with some of those wanting similar but contemporary games.
There are no new experiences to be had, but there have been innovations in the way those familiar are had. VR MMORPGs would have been nothing more than that if the technology had succeeded, a variation on themes long standing with a new shiny coating. Once the novelty wore off people would ache again for innovation. It's a never ending cycle.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
I meet people I like but they all play way more than I do. That is why these days I solo MMORPGs. Sue me I am one of those people responsible for the direction of MMORPGs these days. I feel the loss but am secretly happy when I find them way more accessible too. It's a clash I am guilty of liking.
It's not even about PvP or PvE too I realised because I was in a guild in Dark Age of Camelot and loved the battlegrounds there. So I can totally do organised PvP. Throne and Liberty is supposed to be that end game but the time, oh the time, where will I find it. I cannot do it. It's just too much. I can spend may be 100 over hours or even 300 hours on ARPGs and JRPGs but not on MMORPGs because of the human drama that soils things along the way. I know this sounds like an excuse but people have changed a lot and not for the better and I am disinclined to mingle.
We don't need new games, we need better stewards of the existing games
MMO's are probably more complex to develop than most games, and many don't bring in enough money to justify the large up front cost. Games like Fortnite have proliferated. These are much simpler to develop and can bring in huge amounts of money.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Once upon a time....
I dont agree,
ESO has made billions.
Even New World has made a billion.
All they have to do is put out a decent (doesnt even have to be great) product and make a billion dollars.
The real question is why do these Dev teams keep pushing out garbage over and over and forced to layoff their staff.
Why are MMO's studios so disconnected from their customer base.
Games like, Eldenring, BG3 and Palworld seem to make plenty of money.
Seems like MMO devs are just morons. They are too focused on making games they want instead of games Customers want. They need to hire some player consultants that understand the "real" playerbase.
I think a big trap for MMO developers is they get wrapped around the axel on the backend and it distracts from focusing on building a good game. However if they ignore the back end you get New World and all the issues with exploits, lag, sever stability, and disconnects under high load.
It's not an easy problem to solve. All you armchair experts are more than welcome to raise the $200 million it takes to build one and show us how it's done, though.
Its not like there are all these amazingly fun games out there with backend problems forcing everyone to quit. If there was 100 MMO's that were so fun, but had backend problems that made it unplayable then maybe you would have a point.
The main problem is trashy games. Game devs in the MMO space cant seem to repeat the success from a decade+ ago.
MMO game studios are completely out of sync with customers and that is the main reason new MMO's cant retain their customers anymore.
Its sad that games from 20 years ago are better than the ones releasing now.
Once Devs figure out how to make good games again, MMO's will be popular again and the owners of the studio will bankroll.
If you were an investor, would you put up $200 million to make a billion? or to make 26 billion?
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
And actually theme park games like wow have more longevity. Or ARPG for that matter.
You take a mmorpg which is released and 95% of the players quit after a few month. And that is pretty much every single mmorpg out there.
Change that, and there's no "end" to the game.
How that is changed seems to me to be very important. There are other issues, such as Player Division because of Power Gaps. This is especially important as the game matures and players create alternate Characters, and for newer players.
In other words, you can't just keep adding levels.
Refusing to address this, just because of a desire for the impossible (keep it the same despite the problems) doesn't change anything.
Once upon a time....
Traditional Korean grinders? Not so much.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The industry needs curation skills desperately.
I'm still amazed that UO Outlands is running circles around the original UO.
Is there any existing mmorpg which fit your criteria of no fixed content and the world just evolve on your own?
Of is it just an ideal which no one have made possible yet.
Or probably minecraft, probably which why it is popular.
The issue is thats extemely lucky.
However there is nothing saying that another MMO could not do the same thing if it was good.
Until a new game that is better than WoW is released, we wont know. But its not impossible.
On the other side, there should be no reason a game that makes 5x the investment or 800% profit shouldnt be able to get investors.
The only reasons these devs teams cant get investors, is because nobody trusts them to make a popular MMO. Dev teams dont even care about the money anymore.