If we dont stand up against this kind of stuff.. it will just grow and grow. They dont care.. they did the same thing with Champs Online. And most were against it.. they didnt change anything.. didnt listen. Its all about MONEY. And its like.. SO WHAT.. if we dont put it in we make nothing.. put it in .. some will pay us each month and pay on top of that..
All about MONEY. Like EA wants to do now. You will pay like $15 to play this extra long demo about 3-4h. And tell EA.. so they can tweak it.. and then when the game comes out.. you will pay the reg price $60. No the $15 does not apply to ANYTHING. So you pay to play a beta.. not even.... just PART of the game. Then the full price. So about $75 total... and then most likely download. WOW.. Now look back about some things EA has been going through.. hugh lay offs. Now WE will pay for it.. make a great game people will buy. Like the new Call of Duty.. make a great game people will buy.
You know business model or not, When i pay money for a game i expect it to be ready, not still in development. Especially when the game is supposed to be judged ready, The term "consumer fraud" applies there. And yes I do know what that means. Look it up. Just because it is a game does not mean it isnt fraud all the same.
I'm not going to defend the state of STO at launch, I even recommended for people not to buy it, based on my beta experience. The game being thin at launch is an obvious disadvantage of the customer development approach.
Champions has been out for over 6 months, and only now am I seeing concrete proof at how closely Cryptic is listening to player feedback. If you don't like STO right now, I absolutely recommend quitting for at least 6 months. No one says you have to support the game, this is not an indy developer on the edge of bankruptcy. Come back in 6-18 months, after the game's development has been guided by the dedicated STO fans, and I predict that it will be a good game by then.
Another round of poor excuses from the most untalanted, yet arrogant, MMO developers in the market today.
"I asked how the company justifies their C-Store and was told by Zinkievich that "if we didn't have that revenue from the C-Store, items in the C-Store wouldn't get made" and that the store allows items to be completed and made available to players more quickly."
Then how did City of Heroes get hundreds of unique costume pieces without ever resorting to microtransactions? (there are some costume sets available via micotransactions in City of Heroes, but the sheer number of free pieces means that if you never buy them, you'll never miss them.) Do these money-hungry hacks really think it's acceptable to release four bridge types, and then make all the rest microtransactions?
Also, I have to say that it is the complete height of arrogance and stupidity to fill up your paid store before you've even finished the game! Everyone agrees that this game is light on content, light on features, and was pushed out the door far before it was done. But these morons would actually rather make a quick buck than actually finish making their game.
"That decision, I was told, was actually made in reaction to the players. During Beta, when the developers dropped the level where the game got more difficult they saw a large drop off in their open beta players. A significant enough drop to make them re-think that strategy."
This reminds me of how Cryptic replaced "port" and "starboard" in the game with "left" and "right" because some of the beta testers complained and said they were too difficult to remember. Feedback from players is important, but it seems like Cryptic is only listening to the lowest common denominator rather that adopting the good, intelligent feedback. They say that they found that when the game got harder, people left the game during beta, but was this relationship the real cause and effect? What if people left the beta around that level because there was simply no content and nothing to do?
"That being said though, the developers realize that everyone's perception of what Star Trek is, is different and that everyone has their own take on it so that pleasing everyone is an almost gargantuan and impossibly task."
This is an utterly stupid excuse. Everyone's perception of Star Trek should primarily be what was seen on the screen. If there are phasers on the screen, then there can be phasers in the game. Most people agree that Star Trek just isn't what Cryptic designed their game to be, and they should have known that from the very beginning. During development, I posted a thread on the STO forums where I listed about 20 classic episodes of Star Trek that are considered the very best of Star Trek by the fans, and every episode didn't have one single bit of combat in them. I begged the STO dev team to watch these episodes and take them to heart. Obviously, I was ignored.
Does anyone remember that episode of Star trek where they fought enemies for 45 minutes? Wait, me neither. Does anyone remember that episode where they blasted away enemies without ever hailing them first? Nope, me neither. Does anyone remember that episode of Star Trek where they were given insane, genocidal orders by an admiral and they never once questioned them? Nope, me neither.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Cryptic you're offended? I'm utterly and completely offended that you made such a shitty, dumb, shallow, piece of crap game in one of my favourite video game genres, MMORPGs, with one of my very favourite TV shows, Star Trek. You idiotic morons are on my "dead to me" list.
What is the over under on server population 1 year after launch........i am betting the under.
With the rapid decline in the player base i would go so far as to say F2P to stay afloat. Don't know what they are going to do about the lifetimers though.
I'm pretty sure they are using the LS they got and pre's to keep them afloat for now. And i agree on the above posters point on the CS. they not only for CO release CS at a blistering rate they release incomplete sets for lazy developed holiday event's but then turn around and sell the whole set with stuff you couldn't earn that was apart of the set for CP'S. I'm trying out revelation when it comes and STO when it drops to about $3 but i wont be buying from the CS anymore considering how they put there most developed content in them. To bad we cant express this on the official forums or we would be infractioned up by now.
"One of the biggest complaints that we've heard about Cryptic's Star Trek Online has been that there are many players out there who claim that it just "isn't Star Trek" enough." Great. I can't wait to spend 2 hours arguing about the Prime Directive with my doctor's snot-nosed brat in my ready room. You know, sometimes what makes great Trek doesn't make a very good game...
Yeah, cause this happened on Star trek all the time. No wait, no it didn't.
I get a chuckle out of threads like this, arm chair. lawyers, game devlopers and and game indusrty experts one and all... does not matter what game it is.. everyone knows the business inside and out..LOL But I am sure none of them have ever developed anything more than a headache..:)
Not sure what your point is. I've never built cars, nor do I have the desire to do so. Does that stop me from picking out a nice car?
Do you build TVs? When you go to the store to pick out a TV don't you judge one from another?
Are you saying people who compare products, or know what it takes to make a good product is full of crap?
I know what I want from a tv or car. I also know what I want from a video game. Thank god, not all cars are pintos. I wish I could say the same about recent MMOs.
As an example, here is an article about a business model that makes Cryptic's behavior seem less strange. In a nutshell, the idea is to put out a core game after 6-12 months, and do an "early live" in order to initiate "customer development" i.e. the approach of letting the user request features to the software, a very common approach in business IT. The customer development approach has advantages and disadvantages compared to traditional development, but it is not necessarily inferior. I think I am going to put this link in my signature.
This is all fine and good, and it may even be a valid development method, but unless the developers are planning on doing major, major game upgrades within the first month, the game is simply not worth the box price. They're essentially making people pay for an extended open beta and a full box price plus full monthly fee (plus cash shop) simply isn't justified with an unfinished game.
Good questions, piss poor answers. Cryptic's answers can be summarized as: ... we don't think the paying a box price and a subscription fee that is as expensive as every other game on the market despite us having a rushed release and recycling our engine, which in no way means we are just using a star trek skin, justifies new content. We signed up for an MMO game but had no intention of releasing new races, which aren't really important by our own admission, and anything else we can charge for for free, free if we exclude the fact that our players are actually paying for the game on an ongoing basis.
I think Cryptic games are just hands off for me. Please do take offense to that Cryptic.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
WOW, 7 pages of bitter hatred. I'm almost stunned into silence. As I see it Cryptic;
Are hearing the feedback on what needs to be addressed
Are working on adding non-combat missions, as requested
Agree that more social interaction is needed
Are a little offended when people say "this isn't trek". Which I understand, despite the venomous diatribe here, as I am sure the team did work hard.
What's the problem? had they said "STFU no0bs you know nothing about the IP and even less about game developing, everything is fine" then yeah I could see the need for 7 pages of boo-hoo-ing.
Still, it is only to be expected these days. The way some of you behave you would think Cryptic kill babies, not make games.
I loved the comment about how they saw Open Beta numbers drop when raised the difficulty level. Really? Refresh my memory, but didn't Open beta run from January 11th until January 27th? I'm sure other variables couldn't have interfered with that week long bit of testing where they gathered those numbers. And since the Closed Beta was primarily held as playtests, I don't think it is just a matter of them getting closed and open beta mixed up. It's called rushed development, pure and simple.
The reason for the drop-off during closed beta was not because Cryptic raised the difficulty but because the torpedoes fired by NPCs weren't working properly and did too much damage to player shields, when they are supposed to be anti-hull weapons. In order words, it was possible to get completely annihilated by an alpha strike even when you had full hull and shields. Way to twist an obvious bug into your favor, Cryptic.
Reminds me of the time I posted on the official forums saying that STO uses a modified CoH/CO engine and Jack Emmert posted a comment saying that it was a brand new engine. Then another poster linked a video presentation where one of the lead STO developers states that STO uses a modified CoH/CO engine...
After that little incident, I refuse to believe anything Cryptic says. They are absolutely dishonest.
I get a chuckle out of threads like this, arm chair. lawyers, game devlopers and and game indusrty experts one and all... does not matter what game it is.. everyone knows the business inside and out..LOL But I am sure none of them have ever developed anything more than a headache..:)
Not sure what your point is. I've never built cars, nor do I have the desire to do so. Does that stop me from picking out a nice car?
Do you build TVs? When you go to the store to pick out a TV don't you judge one from another?
Are you saying people who compare products, or know what it takes to make a good product is full of crap?
I know what I want from a tv or car. I also know what I want from a video game. Thank god, not all cars are pintos. I wish I could say the same about recent MMOs.
As an example, here is an article about a business model that makes Cryptic's behavior seem less strange. In a nutshell, the idea is to put out a core game after 6-12 months, and do an "early live" in order to initiate "customer development" i.e. the approach of letting the user request features to the software, a very common approach in business IT. The customer development approach has advantages and disadvantages compared to traditional development, but it is not necessarily inferior. I think I am going to put this link in my signature.
This is all fine and good, and it may even be a valid development method, but unless the developers are planning on doing major, major game upgrades within the first month, the game is simply not worth the box price. They're essentially making people pay for an extended open beta and a full box price plus full monthly fee (plus cash shop) simply isn't justified with an unfinished game.
I agree with you, I think STO was an unacceptably bad value for the price, by nearly measure, at launch. Fortunately some people like it, but I couldn't play it. Cryptic is partially to blame, but...
Consumers need to get wise and stop buying products that they cannot tolerate. They need to do their homework! That is why I am still quite happy with my CO lifetime sub, because I bought it with realistic expectations based on past MMO experiences.
Done properly, the early launch product should only attract hardcore fans. Those will be the ones to guide the development. EVE is the perfect example of doing this successfully; put aside Sandboxes vs Themeparks and abstract to the level of "core game at release, users guide future development before mainstream adoption." It is a fair transaction, as long as the company is honest (Cryptic was) and the fans only buy it with realistic expectations after researching the product (a lot of ST fans didn't).
This feels a lot like Star Wars Galaxies just before the "Combat Upgrade" and "New Game Experience".
What I am referring too is the amount of dedicated fans, bad answers from the company and all "new" patches just makes it worse then better. plus all the post that "disappeared" from the SWG forums...
But, considering STO is made by a company named "cryptic" they should answer cryptically... *har har* (bad joke).
Anyhoo, I haven't played since release, just the beta. But if they (Cryptic) add some more feeling (diplomacy, social interaction, social atmosphere, etc) the game might work.
At the moment STO is much like Diablo 2 on battle.net... and that game I already have.
And a side not: lifetime subscription, wasn't that the total of paying for about two and half years? So Cryptic is estimated that STO will be shut down in three years.
Were you aware that EVE listed player owned stations on the retail box? I don't believe that is a worth while comparison.
It looks like STO is a base to build on. A very base starting point. With nowhere near the content necessary for a release. The first expansion is supposed to be added soon. My download said the new content was 1.3 gigs. Heres hoping it will be worth the wait.
I wish the STO players all the best. I finally canceled my subscription today as I just haven't seen enough to warrant my personal interest in the title. Admittedly I was having second thoughts about doing this at first. All that went away when I just saw Mike B's post of CCP's use of PhysiX and the assets they used were without a doubt from the upcoming World of Darkness Online. That release itself told me I did the right thing by clearing my slate.
I haven't been disappointed by CCP yet as I have by Cryptic.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I was actually wondering- regardless of how bad it as an MMO- whether or not it had the star trek "feel " to it but the mere fact MMORPG asked about it is telling enough. It simply amazes me they only now realize the shows are NOT about combat constantly but rather exploration . Seems to me they never even bothered to watch the very series/movies on which their triple A MMO was based. What a shame a company has managed to make a mediocre or bad MMO out of such a powerful IP.....
After NCsoft ( the Tabula Rasa debacle and the fact they canceled that one for the lemon which is Aion ) it seems Cryptic is another lost cause .
STO is really just any other generic MMO (specifically Champions Online) with a Star Trek skin on it.
Ooh yes that's the stuff. This keeps me vibe. Players aren't that stupid then. They realize that MMO's can't be all the same with different names and graphics.
This is the WHOLE problem, everything is secndary, to me. A MMO must be unique in its basic structure. STO has a structure that being to similar to other MMO's, literally chokes the uniqueness of an IP and the mechanics it should generate.
So some will say that it's not possible business-wise. Well, yes, do a completely unique and maybe in a way "awkward" game and you risk that the mass won't go near it. But do a "generic MMO"(i love this expression, it's even more juicy than good old WoW-clone), and people will get bored and go back to their previous MMO.
So what will you market freaks in your office do, now, uh?
I hope they will realize how much the quests system, with its linearity, with its *"go to NPC with exclamation mark, skip thru text, go to destination the marker indicates, farm mob, click some crap, then go back and collect reward"* kills any MMO into a flat, pre-cooked, anti-social and anti-interaction experience.
A trekkie would like to solve scientific puzzles, go thru databases, solve diplomatic dilemmas, discuss politics, make speeches out of his own wits and expertise to convince REAL people that they should follow his idea to overcome the current problem... and then they want to live in their quarters, customize their room, sit in the bar and do nothing, just live in space until something baaad happens and the senior officers are called to the bridge... or until they reach the next station, or to just spectate scientific phaenomena. Instead because of QUESTS, of damn, damn goddamn standard MMO quests, a player can only do two things: collect kills and endure some jabber off NPC's before you grab your new gear. That's the hell in which babysitting quests took us.
I was actually wondering- regardless of how bad it as an MMO- whether or not it had the star trek "feel " to it but the mere fact MMORPG asked about it is telling enough. It simply amazes me they only now realize the shows are NOT about combat constantly but rather exploration . Seems to me they never even bothered to watch the very series/movies on which their triple A MMO was based. What a shame a company has managed to make a mediocre or bad MMO out of such a powerful IP.....
After NCsoft ( the Tabula Rasa debacle and the fact they canceled that one for the lemon which is Aion ) it seems Cryptic is another lost cause .
how true. It's just that most MMO makers simply rebuild the canonical MMO structure taken from popular titles, and then add "stuff" to it that reminds of that IP.
And that's the whole affair. The exploration, diplomacy, science and social parts of STO, which are the core of the brand, what makes it IT, instead of being the core elements that define the game, that SHAPE the experience, are the above-mentioned "stuff" added after the framework, which is nothing else than the usual themepark MMO.
How can people expect that it will FEEL like STO, if the genre has such STRONG standards that suffocate uniqueness?
<p> Well, my evil heart rejoices seeing them bashed and wince. XD</p> <p> <br /> But seriously... talk is cheap. God, the endless road of broken promises of all the grandeur games "will get sometimes soon". It could fill tons of telephone book sized stories.</p> <p> <br /> We are aware - we will add - we listened</p> <p> <br /> WELL IF YOU ARE SO AWARE WHY THE BLAST DIDNT YOU ADD ALL THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?</p> <p> <br /> These kind of talks are so pointless. NO MMO EVER added a real substantial change after launch. NOT. EVER. What the fuck makes us believe Cryptic of all companies really does that NOW? How stupid do they think we are?</p> <p> </p> <p> (And why the heck are there suddenly html signs visible??)</p>
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Why dose no one adress the mountain of spelling and grammer mistakes? No matter how you cut it, when you go a WHOLE day without encountering a single paragraph that looks like it was typed by an adult thats just shotty work.
Why dose no one adress the mountain of spelling and grammer mistakes? No matter how you cut it, when you go a WHOLE day without encountering a single paragraph that looks like it was typed by an adult thats just shotty work.
I see the irony of what you're doing here... you're commenting on grammatical errors and typos by posting with a comment full of grammar and spelling mistakes. Bravo.
Cry[tic is so full of it. These were problems people brought forth multiple times in CB. And Cryptic was always ready with it's excuses. If you tried listening to what the players wanted and stopped trying to make it how you wanted it maybe you would have more people playing. It's not a coincidence the same issues kept coming up again and again
Been playing STO about a month and MMOs about three years.
1. Star Trek feel. Frankly you can't make everyone happy all the time. I do cut STO some slack here because it is not easy matching someones mental picture of a game with coding and game play reality. Of course if you don't make your customers happy they mitgrate to some other game..................
2. To make this more like an MMO. A). Improve grouping ability. Go look at DDO (yes and I know how Atrai and Turbine get along lol) and see how they made finding a group a very easy thing. Spend some cash and get a build in speech system like teamspeak or like the ones DDO, Xbox etc. (it is so simple to use). Coordinating effords even a fast paced enviroment is fun when you are speaking to the team.
3. The store. Meaningless unless you have to buy things to level or compete with other toons.
Comments
If we dont stand up against this kind of stuff.. it will just grow and grow. They dont care.. they did the same thing with Champs Online. And most were against it.. they didnt change anything.. didnt listen. Its all about MONEY. And its like.. SO WHAT.. if we dont put it in we make nothing.. put it in .. some will pay us each month and pay on top of that..
All about MONEY. Like EA wants to do now. You will pay like $15 to play this extra long demo about 3-4h. And tell EA.. so they can tweak it.. and then when the game comes out.. you will pay the reg price $60. No the $15 does not apply to ANYTHING. So you pay to play a beta.. not even.... just PART of the game. Then the full price. So about $75 total... and then most likely download. WOW.. Now look back about some things EA has been going through.. hugh lay offs. Now WE will pay for it.. make a great game people will buy. Like the new Call of Duty.. make a great game people will buy.
I'm not going to defend the state of STO at launch, I even recommended for people not to buy it, based on my beta experience. The game being thin at launch is an obvious disadvantage of the customer development approach.
Champions has been out for over 6 months, and only now am I seeing concrete proof at how closely Cryptic is listening to player feedback. If you don't like STO right now, I absolutely recommend quitting for at least 6 months. No one says you have to support the game, this is not an indy developer on the edge of bankruptcy. Come back in 6-18 months, after the game's development has been guided by the dedicated STO fans, and I predict that it will be a good game by then.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Another round of poor excuses from the most untalanted, yet arrogant, MMO developers in the market today.
"I asked how the company justifies their C-Store and was told by Zinkievich that "if we didn't have that revenue from the C-Store, items in the C-Store wouldn't get made" and that the store allows items to be completed and made available to players more quickly."
Then how did City of Heroes get hundreds of unique costume pieces without ever resorting to microtransactions? (there are some costume sets available via micotransactions in City of Heroes, but the sheer number of free pieces means that if you never buy them, you'll never miss them.) Do these money-hungry hacks really think it's acceptable to release four bridge types, and then make all the rest microtransactions?
Also, I have to say that it is the complete height of arrogance and stupidity to fill up your paid store before you've even finished the game! Everyone agrees that this game is light on content, light on features, and was pushed out the door far before it was done. But these morons would actually rather make a quick buck than actually finish making their game.
"That decision, I was told, was actually made in reaction to the players. During Beta, when the developers dropped the level where the game got more difficult they saw a large drop off in their open beta players. A significant enough drop to make them re-think that strategy."
This reminds me of how Cryptic replaced "port" and "starboard" in the game with "left" and "right" because some of the beta testers complained and said they were too difficult to remember. Feedback from players is important, but it seems like Cryptic is only listening to the lowest common denominator rather that adopting the good, intelligent feedback. They say that they found that when the game got harder, people left the game during beta, but was this relationship the real cause and effect? What if people left the beta around that level because there was simply no content and nothing to do?
"That being said though, the developers realize that everyone's perception of what Star Trek is, is different and that everyone has their own take on it so that pleasing everyone is an almost gargantuan and impossibly task."
This is an utterly stupid excuse. Everyone's perception of Star Trek should primarily be what was seen on the screen. If there are phasers on the screen, then there can be phasers in the game. Most people agree that Star Trek just isn't what Cryptic designed their game to be, and they should have known that from the very beginning. During development, I posted a thread on the STO forums where I listed about 20 classic episodes of Star Trek that are considered the very best of Star Trek by the fans, and every episode didn't have one single bit of combat in them. I begged the STO dev team to watch these episodes and take them to heart. Obviously, I was ignored.
Does anyone remember that episode of Star trek where they fought enemies for 45 minutes? Wait, me neither. Does anyone remember that episode where they blasted away enemies without ever hailing them first? Nope, me neither. Does anyone remember that episode of Star Trek where they were given insane, genocidal orders by an admiral and they never once questioned them? Nope, me neither.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Cryptic you're offended? I'm utterly and completely offended that you made such a shitty, dumb, shallow, piece of crap game in one of my favourite video game genres, MMORPGs, with one of my very favourite TV shows, Star Trek. You idiotic morons are on my "dead to me" list.
With the rapid decline in the player base i would go so far as to say F2P to stay afloat. Don't know what they are going to do about the lifetimers though.
I'm pretty sure they are using the LS they got and pre's to keep them afloat for now. And i agree on the above posters point on the CS. they not only for CO release CS at a blistering rate they release incomplete sets for lazy developed holiday event's but then turn around and sell the whole set with stuff you couldn't earn that was apart of the set for CP'S. I'm trying out revelation when it comes and STO when it drops to about $3 but i wont be buying from the CS anymore considering how they put there most developed content in them. To bad we cant express this on the official forums or we would be infractioned up by now.
Yeah, cause this happened on Star trek all the time. No wait, no it didn't.
Not sure what your point is. I've never built cars, nor do I have the desire to do so. Does that stop me from picking out a nice car?
Do you build TVs? When you go to the store to pick out a TV don't you judge one from another?
Are you saying people who compare products, or know what it takes to make a good product is full of crap?
I know what I want from a tv or car. I also know what I want from a video game. Thank god, not all cars are pintos. I wish I could say the same about recent MMOs.
As an example, here is an article about a business model that makes Cryptic's behavior seem less strange. In a nutshell, the idea is to put out a core game after 6-12 months, and do an "early live" in order to initiate "customer development" i.e. the approach of letting the user request features to the software, a very common approach in business IT. The customer development approach has advantages and disadvantages compared to traditional development, but it is not necessarily inferior. I think I am going to put this link in my signature.
This is all fine and good, and it may even be a valid development method, but unless the developers are planning on doing major, major game upgrades within the first month, the game is simply not worth the box price. They're essentially making people pay for an extended open beta and a full box price plus full monthly fee (plus cash shop) simply isn't justified with an unfinished game.
...sigh banned again from the official forums
Good questions, piss poor answers. Cryptic's answers can be summarized as: ... we don't think the paying a box price and a subscription fee that is as expensive as every other game on the market despite us having a rushed release and recycling our engine, which in no way means we are just using a star trek skin, justifies new content. We signed up for an MMO game but had no intention of releasing new races, which aren't really important by our own admission, and anything else we can charge for for free, free if we exclude the fact that our players are actually paying for the game on an ongoing basis.
I think Cryptic games are just hands off for me. Please do take offense to that Cryptic.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
WOW, 7 pages of bitter hatred. I'm almost stunned into silence. As I see it Cryptic;
Are hearing the feedback on what needs to be addressed
Are working on adding non-combat missions, as requested
Agree that more social interaction is needed
Are a little offended when people say "this isn't trek". Which I understand, despite the venomous diatribe here, as I am sure the team did work hard.
What's the problem? had they said "STFU no0bs you know nothing about the IP and even less about game developing, everything is fine" then yeah I could see the need for 7 pages of boo-hoo-ing.
Still, it is only to be expected these days. The way some of you behave you would think Cryptic kill babies, not make games.
The reason for the drop-off during closed beta was not because Cryptic raised the difficulty but because the torpedoes fired by NPCs weren't working properly and did too much damage to player shields, when they are supposed to be anti-hull weapons. In order words, it was possible to get completely annihilated by an alpha strike even when you had full hull and shields. Way to twist an obvious bug into your favor, Cryptic.
Reminds me of the time I posted on the official forums saying that STO uses a modified CoH/CO engine and Jack Emmert posted a comment saying that it was a brand new engine. Then another poster linked a video presentation where one of the lead STO developers states that STO uses a modified CoH/CO engine...
After that little incident, I refuse to believe anything Cryptic says. They are absolutely dishonest.
Not sure what your point is. I've never built cars, nor do I have the desire to do so. Does that stop me from picking out a nice car?
Do you build TVs? When you go to the store to pick out a TV don't you judge one from another?
Are you saying people who compare products, or know what it takes to make a good product is full of crap?
I know what I want from a tv or car. I also know what I want from a video game. Thank god, not all cars are pintos. I wish I could say the same about recent MMOs.
As an example, here is an article about a business model that makes Cryptic's behavior seem less strange. In a nutshell, the idea is to put out a core game after 6-12 months, and do an "early live" in order to initiate "customer development" i.e. the approach of letting the user request features to the software, a very common approach in business IT. The customer development approach has advantages and disadvantages compared to traditional development, but it is not necessarily inferior. I think I am going to put this link in my signature.
This is all fine and good, and it may even be a valid development method, but unless the developers are planning on doing major, major game upgrades within the first month, the game is simply not worth the box price. They're essentially making people pay for an extended open beta and a full box price plus full monthly fee (plus cash shop) simply isn't justified with an unfinished game.
I agree with you, I think STO was an unacceptably bad value for the price, by nearly measure, at launch. Fortunately some people like it, but I couldn't play it. Cryptic is partially to blame, but...
Consumers need to get wise and stop buying products that they cannot tolerate. They need to do their homework! That is why I am still quite happy with my CO lifetime sub, because I bought it with realistic expectations based on past MMO experiences.
Done properly, the early launch product should only attract hardcore fans. Those will be the ones to guide the development. EVE is the perfect example of doing this successfully; put aside Sandboxes vs Themeparks and abstract to the level of "core game at release, users guide future development before mainstream adoption." It is a fair transaction, as long as the company is honest (Cryptic was) and the fans only buy it with realistic expectations after researching the product (a lot of ST fans didn't).
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Not to bring up too many old wounds, but...
This feels a lot like Star Wars Galaxies just before the "Combat Upgrade" and "New Game Experience".
What I am referring too is the amount of dedicated fans, bad answers from the company and all "new" patches just makes it worse then better. plus all the post that "disappeared" from the SWG forums...
But, considering STO is made by a company named "cryptic" they should answer cryptically... *har har* (bad joke).
Anyhoo, I haven't played since release, just the beta. But if they (Cryptic) add some more feeling (diplomacy, social interaction, social atmosphere, etc) the game might work.
At the moment STO is much like Diablo 2 on battle.net... and that game I already have.
And a side not: lifetime subscription, wasn't that the total of paying for about two and half years? So Cryptic is estimated that STO will be shut down in three years.
Were you aware that EVE listed player owned stations on the retail box? I don't believe that is a worth while comparison.
It looks like STO is a base to build on. A very base starting point. With nowhere near the content necessary for a release. The first expansion is supposed to be added soon. My download said the new content was 1.3 gigs. Heres hoping it will be worth the wait.
Cryptic is a lost cause to me, is it bad to wish them into bankruptcy?
I wish the STO players all the best. I finally canceled my subscription today as I just haven't seen enough to warrant my personal interest in the title. Admittedly I was having second thoughts about doing this at first. All that went away when I just saw Mike B's post of CCP's use of PhysiX and the assets they used were without a doubt from the upcoming World of Darkness Online. That release itself told me I did the right thing by clearing my slate.
I haven't been disappointed by CCP yet as I have by Cryptic.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Nothing can save STO now. It was a quick money grab. It will go the way of Tabula Rasa.
I was actually wondering- regardless of how bad it as an MMO- whether or not it had the star trek "feel " to it but the mere fact MMORPG asked about it is telling enough. It simply amazes me they only now realize the shows are NOT about combat constantly but rather exploration . Seems to me they never even bothered to watch the very series/movies on which their triple A MMO was based. What a shame a company has managed to make a mediocre or bad MMO out of such a powerful IP.....
After NCsoft ( the Tabula Rasa debacle and the fact they canceled that one for the lemon which is Aion ) it seems Cryptic is another lost cause .
Ooh yes that's the stuff. This keeps me vibe. Players aren't that stupid then. They realize that MMO's can't be all the same with different names and graphics.
This is the WHOLE problem, everything is secndary, to me. A MMO must be unique in its basic structure. STO has a structure that being to similar to other MMO's, literally chokes the uniqueness of an IP and the mechanics it should generate.
So some will say that it's not possible business-wise. Well, yes, do a completely unique and maybe in a way "awkward" game and you risk that the mass won't go near it. But do a "generic MMO"(i love this expression, it's even more juicy than good old WoW-clone), and people will get bored and go back to their previous MMO.
So what will you market freaks in your office do, now, uh?
I hope they will realize how much the quests system, with its linearity, with its *"go to NPC with exclamation mark, skip thru text, go to destination the marker indicates, farm mob, click some crap, then go back and collect reward"* kills any MMO into a flat, pre-cooked, anti-social and anti-interaction experience.
A trekkie would like to solve scientific puzzles, go thru databases, solve diplomatic dilemmas, discuss politics, make speeches out of his own wits and expertise to convince REAL people that they should follow his idea to overcome the current problem... and then they want to live in their quarters, customize their room, sit in the bar and do nothing, just live in space until something baaad happens and the senior officers are called to the bridge... or until they reach the next station, or to just spectate scientific phaenomena. Instead because of QUESTS, of damn, damn goddamn standard MMO quests, a player can only do two things: collect kills and endure some jabber off NPC's before you grab your new gear. That's the hell in which babysitting quests took us.
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how true. It's just that most MMO makers simply rebuild the canonical MMO structure taken from popular titles, and then add "stuff" to it that reminds of that IP.
And that's the whole affair. The exploration, diplomacy, science and social parts of STO, which are the core of the brand, what makes it IT, instead of being the core elements that define the game, that SHAPE the experience, are the above-mentioned "stuff" added after the framework, which is nothing else than the usual themepark MMO.
How can people expect that it will FEEL like STO, if the genre has such STRONG standards that suffocate uniqueness?
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Well, my evil heart rejoices seeing them bashed and wince. XD</p>
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But seriously... talk is cheap. God, the endless road of broken promises of all the grandeur games "will get sometimes soon". It could fill tons of telephone book sized stories.</p>
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We are aware - we will add - we listened</p>
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WELL IF YOU ARE SO AWARE WHY THE BLAST DIDNT YOU ADD ALL THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?</p>
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These kind of talks are so pointless. NO MMO EVER added a real substantial change after launch. NOT. EVER. What the fuck makes us believe Cryptic of all companies really does that NOW? How stupid do they think we are?</p>
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(And why the heck are there suddenly html signs visible??)</p>
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The STO producer in recent interviews seems to be getting agitated towards the playerbase.
Why dose no one adress the mountain of spelling and grammer mistakes? No matter how you cut it, when you go a WHOLE day without encountering a single paragraph that looks like it was typed by an adult thats just shotty work.
I see the irony of what you're doing here... you're commenting on grammatical errors and typos by posting with a comment full of grammar and spelling mistakes. Bravo.
It's spelled "shoddy" by the way.
Cry[tic is so full of it. These were problems people brought forth multiple times in CB. And Cryptic was always ready with it's excuses. If you tried listening to what the players wanted and stopped trying to make it how you wanted it maybe you would have more people playing. It's not a coincidence the same issues kept coming up again and again
Been playing STO about a month and MMOs about three years.
1. Star Trek feel. Frankly you can't make everyone happy all the time. I do cut STO some slack here because it is not easy matching someones mental picture of a game with coding and game play reality. Of course if you don't make your customers happy they mitgrate to some other game..................
2. To make this more like an MMO. A). Improve grouping ability. Go look at DDO (yes and I know how Atrai and Turbine get along lol) and see how they made finding a group a very easy thing.
3. The store. Meaningless unless you have to buy things to level or compete with other toons.