CCP does not lose any money thorugh PLEX transactions. Somebody had to buy a gametime code from them somewhere along the way, so they are paid for the gametime that the PLEX represents.
Also, PLEXes do not magically generate ISK. It is simply a reshuffling of the ISK already within the economy. The only things that introduce new ISK into the economy are missions, NPC trade routes, ratting, and complexes.
Complain that they support RMT all you want. I guess you could say that they do, but there is a very specific thing here you are missing: They support RMT when it is between them (the company providing the product, EVE) and the consumer (the player), not when it is between two players.
OK, so you are saying that you justify and agree with players being able to buy ISK for IRL money in EVE, as they can right now?
I dont particularly like it, but the fact is, the way it is implemented it doesn't do any real harm. It is a question of "least harm". People will RMT - there's no getting away from it. It happens in every MMO. Given that, CCP have decided to provide a legal avenue that directs additional revenue by increasing the subscriber base to themselves - who are providing the service in the first place. And the PLEX system is structed such that it is somewhat homeostatic. If you try and buy or sell too many PLEX, the market will adjust the price against you.
An important point to remember is: Someone who wants to play for free only has the incentive to make enough extra ISK each month to buy a PLEX. Someone who is RMTing ISK will make as much ISK as they possibly can. A major advantage of the PLEX system is that it undermines the illicit RMT market.
Given the extremely transient nature of possession in EVE, merely being able to buy ISK from another player is a questionable advantage. The great majority of PLEX sellers are guys who work all week and want to use their limited game time PvPing rather than ratting. They sell a PLEX every few weeks, spend the ISK on PvP ships and go play the game. Meanwhile, many people on limited incomes are able to play who otherwise would not be able to (I dont see many RMT websites giving away free subscription time btw). I really dont see the harm. Your principles might be offended, but in a practical sense, what deleterious effect has the PLEX system actually had on you?
In short, it is important to remember that CCP themselves only sell game time. That's a very important difference between their PLEX system and normal MMO "cash shops". An MMO company that sells game time is something of a "Dog bites man" scandal.
Anyone that supports the service in Eve online should just make sure they keep out of threads about gold sellers in other games because hypocrits suck. I am all for gold selling in all games, btw.
It's fun to deconstruct a wall of text in a few simple sentences.
How, exactly, is the possibility to exchange real money for isk covert? Who exactly is denying it? Last i checked it was pretty well known even outside of Eve and overtly advertised by ccp.
More importantly, how can something be covert if the developer is publicising it aggressively as method to take over the rmt business and turn it into good, solid profit while keeping control over the money flow? There were even press releases about it for crying out loud.
And what the heck does this have to do with denial in any way?
Yes, it is fun to attempt to be condescending...
It is covert because it is a cash shop in disguise. Publicly talking about something under a different name or in disguise can still be covert, i'm sorry this slipped by you.
The denial is clearly shown by nearly every post so far.
The fact that no extra ISK is generated somehow invalidates it being a cash shop? Care to explain how?
The definition of a cash shop, ie. a shop where you buy something for cash ingame, now states that the item you are buying has to be created and not exist prior to your purchase?
The Denial goes on...
Heheh... that's the way it is now. In order to defend, or bash, a given thing people will change the meaning or context of something 100 times if necessary. If the current meaning of a word of phrase doesn't fit your argument... change it! It happens all the time.
People will always dance around or spin a topic that's unfavorable to their point-of-view. Did you read the DF forums around the time of that game's "launch". Holy crap they were like tops going 24/7.
That said, I see exactly what you're saying. There's an extra step involved, but at the end of the day, real world money is being exchanged for in-game money. The only reason it's okay is because regardless of who uses the time code, CCP is still getting their fee from the time card purchase. If CCP were cut out of the loop completely and people sold the codes directly to each other, cutting out CCP as "middle man", I'm pretty sure you'd see a very different attitude by them. Although, maybe not since CCP gets a sub fee out of it; their "cut" if you will. Could be they've embraced it only so there's no sense of "CCP isn't doing anything about RMT in their game"
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Anyone that supports the service in Eve online should just make sure they keep out of threads about gold sellers in other games because hypocrits suck. I am all for gold selling in all games, btw.
It's all about who is making the profit out of this "gold selling"
What happens when third partys sell gold? Gold sellers hurt a game, they bot and hack to make currency to sell, they hack accounts and get them banned or sell them. They keep all profits and cut out the dev. They put undue stress on a server and generally mess up an in game economy.
What happens with CCPs plex system? A player can use Rl cash to buy gametime(This gametime is bought from CCP) after the gametime is purchased the player can choose to use said gametime for his own characters or turn it into a in game item called Plex. This item can be bought by a player not able to pay for the game but has the time to make decent isk. In turn the seller made 250-275 million isk. The isk used to buy this plex was made by normal gameplay means, no hacking or boting and doesnt put stress on the server.
So what really just happened? You had a player buy you 30 days of gametime in turn giving them 250-275isk for buying it for you. End result? CCP had someone buy gametime, no one is hacking or botting, noone is getting their accounts jacked and sold/banned, server stress is down.
Now why would anyone with an actual brain not be for the plex system? And how is this anything like what a gold seller does?
Anyone that supports the service in Eve online should just make sure they keep out of threads about gold sellers in other games because hypocrits suck. I am all for gold selling in all games, btw.
What happens with CCPs plex system? A player can use Rl cash to buy gametime(This gametime is bought from CCP) after the gametime is purchased the player can choose to use said gametime for his own characters or turn it into a in game item called Plex. This item can be bought by a player not able to pay for the game but has the time to make decent isk. In turn the seller made 250-275 million isk. The isk used to buy this plex was made by normal gameplay means, no hacking or boting and doesnt put stress on the server.
Disingenuous way to represent it. Botting doesn't "generate" money. Hacking doesn't "generate" money. What both do is enable the RMT to generate in-game money - through farming - by automating the process (botting) or by basically cheating the game (hacking) to do so. Fundamentally, though, they do no more than a normal player would do... they just do it more and cheat in the process. Other than dupes (which normal players use as well), there is no magical way for RMT to create in-game money out of thin air that other players can't do as well.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
well it has not stopped botting. If anything I know a lot of people that bot mine when not "playing" to make isk to buy PLEX. So that part of your argument just does not hold water.
Anyone that supports the service in Eve online should just make sure they keep out of threads about gold sellers in other games because hypocrits suck. I am all for gold selling in all games, btw.
What happens with CCPs plex system? A player can use Rl cash to buy gametime(This gametime is bought from CCP) after the gametime is purchased the player can choose to use said gametime for his own characters or turn it into a in game item called Plex. This item can be bought by a player not able to pay for the game but has the time to make decent isk. In turn the seller made 250-275 million isk. The isk used to buy this plex was made by normal gameplay means, no hacking or boting and doesnt put stress on the server.
Disingenuous way to represent it. Botting doesn't "generate" money. Hacking doesn't "generate" money. What both do is enable the RMT to generate in-game money - through farming - by automating the process (botting) or by basically cheating the game (hacking) to do so. Fundamentally, though, they do no more than a normal player would do... they just do it more and cheat in the process. Other than dupes (which normal players use as well), there is no magical way for RMT to create in-game money out of thin air that other players can't do as well.
That's not true at all. By using Hacks and botting you can out farm a normal player in eve ten fold. thats what puts stress on the server. One account doing the work of ten inflates the amount of isk being made and messes with the economy so yes hacking and botting make isk.
Real Money affects in-game conflicts majorly on EVE Online.
I had a friend who spend over a thousand dollars per month to finance his corporation in game.
When the developers allow players to spend unlimited ammounts of money to get in-game advantages, the cash shop is abusive.
If people only could spend $15 bucks, but off course CCP wouldnt limit its own profit.
The influence of Real Money in-game is killing our genre. Its not a matter of being able to spend $10 or $15 per month, just to play or compete. Nowadays, the sky is the limit and the developers make sure people want to spend more and more, with disregard to the game balance between players.
Its like this: who can pay more wins.
The ilusion of a purity, balanced FREE game has fallen. Freeloaders are subpar, the gap is increasing day by day.
Its not fun or entertaining anymore to be part of this exploitative system.
But this is one of the things that everyone realizes with time. Eventually the number of players who are aware and fed up with this developers/publisher abuses will outweight the number of new and inocent players.
it will have an end.
In that case, I am sorry to say, your "friend" is a god damb moron.
What advantage has he actually accrued for his $1000 a month, might I ask? Because if he is spending that kind of cash (and I say if , because we have to take your word for it, and you have to take his word for it) to maintain his corp, I can pretty much predict that the minute he stops, his corp will dry up and blow away. Any decent corp should be more than self-sustaining. And the members certainly should be. he's basically paying people to play with him... pretty sad.
My experience with established corps and alliances is that they're large net consumers of PLEX, not sellers. Candidly, we dont need to pay RL money to raise a couple of hundred mill.
The big PLEX sellers are doing one of two things: raising ISK to buy a character, which is kind of a one-off thing, or they're idiots who think that having lots of deadspace mods on their pirate faction battleship means that they have bought win. Not only are the latter type of players not considered any kind of threat by people like myself, finding one is considered the greatest of good luck - like getting an officer spawn. They're delicious tasty loot pinatas!
well it has not stopped botting. If anything I know a lot of people that bot mine when not "playing" to make isk to buy PLEX. So that part of your argument just does not hold water.
You will never stop botting but it has put a nice dent in it and at the time decreased server stress by over 30%.
We have to understand CCP does not sell isk. They sell gametime. Players buy other players gametime for isk ( this is all kept in game on the games market).
When I was playing WoW I had a buddy that could not afford to play wow anymore so me and a buddy paid for a six month sub for him. in turn he made our alts some crafted gear and bought us mounts.
Its the same thing. The bottom line is Blizzard made cash off someone buying gametime, nothing wrong with that.
Its not like you can log into CCPs site, look at a cash shop, buy xp potions, armor and all types of advantages over regular players.
This is no revelation!.. everyone knows it, CCP knows it, they dont deny it and all its players love it.... your in no way 'clever' to make this realisation.
What is so sad about your post is that you try and twist this into some kind of bad thing!... CCP get involved in RMT to get rid of _Illegal RMT_ that has highly damaging effects to the game, the company, to the players... and yes, to your own financial security.
Illegal RMT'ers are criminals, theifs whos funds are going into god knows what!
CCP's system is clever, innovative and a small stroke of genius and one of the only REAL soloutions to combating Illegal RMT that every MMO should consider.
using their system people were able to donate in-game ISK which got converted into real cash for the Haiti appeal... how many fucking game companies have done that eh?.... and your audacity, and down right arrogance to basterdise their method it into something bad can only be attributed to blind ignorance. That or you yourself are part of an illegal RMT organisation who is using this site in attempt to fight back the only 'Premium rate subscription MMO' company that threatens your existence.
If all MMO producing companies followed CCP's path then you and your crime syndicate's days are numberd, and good freakin riddance to you.
you can frame it as you want, but they are selling isk and promoting botting due to people wanting to buy that game time you flaunt. The high and mighty spin you are trying to create by carefully wording what they are doing is nothing but spin. They created an ingame way to by isk and they turn a blind eye to people botting to buy that isk so long as they do not sell their botting gains for real money. They system works, but to stand and say the shit does not stink is just plain stupid. Botting is as rampant as it would be if, if not more, than if only other companies were selling the isk. Then you would only have gold farmers botting for isk but instead we have gold farmers and PLEX isk farmers along with the ever present Corp isk farmers and Industry min farmers.
What happens when third partys sell gold? Gold sellers hurt a game, they bot and hack to make currency to sell, they hack accounts and get them banned or sell them. They keep all profits and cut out the dev. They put undue stress on a server and generally mess up an in game economy.
It seems you feel strongly about the topic and make up stories to go with it. Your argument is a logical fallacy. Please note that I am not against or for gold-selling, but I am against flawed logic. Check out slippery slope - fallacy. While it might sound convincing to a layman, they often do not hold water.
Firstly, there was a study few years back that showed RMT not having huge effect on in-game economy. In some cases it actually was beneficial to a growing economy. You do know the economic theory where you give money to a small economy (like a third-world country city) and it actually increases both supply and demand.
Secondly, there are no reason to believe that all people who farm gold hack accounts or get them banned. It is actually bad business, as it easy to get caught - follow the money trail. Account sales is a different issue from gold selling - I know lots of players who sell their account based on the time they have invested in the character. There are tons of scammers in this side of the business taking advantage of uninitiated or just plain stupid gamers. Scammers are hardly a new phenomenom. However, that does not mean that gold sellers per se are guilty of account hacks and scamming - just because few are. There are some very reputable places where you can do these transactions safely, just like with most traditional businesses.
Also about cutting out the dev. EULA and alike are not bullet proof legal documents. They are more guidelines. Plus since devs are not all selling gold (some are indirectly, like CCP), they are not really cutting out of anyone. If more developer companies did what CCP did, more third-party gold sellers would go out of business.
Also, they are not really stress on a server. Gold farmers usually occupy zones/shards that are not populated by normal players. In many cases you also have to separate gold farmers from gold sellers.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
you can frame it as you want, but they are selling isk and promoting botting due to people wanting to buy that game time you flaunt. The high and mighty spin you are trying to create by carefully wording what they are doing is nothing but spin. They created an ingame way to by isk and they turn a blind eye to people botting to buy that isk so long as they do not sell their botting gains for real money. They system works, but to stand and say the shit does not stink is just plain stupid. Botting is as rampant as it would be if, if not more, than if only other companies were selling the isk. Then you would only have gold farmers botting for isk but instead we have gold farmers and PLEX isk farmers along with the ever present Corp isk farmers and Industry min farmers.
This is false, Botting is down, hacking is down, isk sellers are making less.
CCP sells gametime, players use in game items to buy other people game time that can't afford it or want to pay for extra alts.
It all stays in house and regular players buying plex do it through normal gameplay means.
You are the one trying to put a negative spin on it. this is whats happening and its good for the game. get over it.
Like just about everything else in EvE, the plex mechanic is poorly understood by people who don't actually play the game.
I don't mind cash shops in general, but I prefer the way CCP does it since it cuts the chinese spammers out of the loop entirely (less spam, yay!), integrates the RMT portion into the in-game economy so inflation doesn't go haywire, and, unlike every other RMT transaction I've ever seen, buying ISK in EvE confers no real advantage.
What happens when third partys sell gold? Gold sellers hurt a game, they bot and hack to make currency to sell, they hack accounts and get them banned or sell them. They keep all profits and cut out the dev. They put undue stress on a server and generally mess up an in game economy.
It seems you feel strongly about the topic and make up stories to go with it. Your argument is a logical fallacy. Please note that I am not against or for gold-selling, but I am against flawed logic. Check out slippery slope - fallacy. While it might sound convincing to a layman, they often do not hold water.
Firstly, there was a study few years back that showed RMT not having huge effect on in-game economy. In some cases it actually was beneficial to a growing economy. You do know the economic theory where you give money to a small economy (like a third-world country city) and it actually increases both supply and demand.
Secondly, there are no reason to believe that all people who farm gold hack accounts or get them banned. It is actually bad business, as it easy to get caught - follow the money trail. Account sales is a different issue from gold selling - I know lots of players who sell their account based on the time they have invested in the character. There are tons of scammers in this side of the business taking advantage of uninitiated or just plain stupid gamers. Scammers are hardly a new phenomenom. However, that does not mean that gold sellers per se are guilty of account hacks and scamming - just because few are. There are some very reputable places where you can do these transactions safely, just like with most traditional businesses.
Also about cutting out the dev. EULA and alike are not bullet proof legal documents. They are more guidelines. Plus since devs are not all selling gold (some are indirectly, like CCP), they are not really cutting out of anyone. If more developer companies did what CCP did, more third-party gold sellers would go out of business.
Also, they are not really stress on a server. Gold farmers usually occupy zones/shards that are not populated by normal players. In many cases you also have to separate gold farmers from gold sellers.
When someone hacks an account what do they do to it? sell it to a gold seller and in turn that account gets banned for hacking/botting. What sites give you keyloggers? mostly gold seller sites of sites supported by gold seller ads. Who sends the phishing emails to players? same people selling you gold or connected to those who sell you gold.
When someone bots with a character what are they doing? even if in a empty shard they put stress on a server that would otherwise not be there.
Check CCP links CCP banned a very small amount of botters/hackers from eve and the server load decreased 30%!!! what is that telling you?
Gold selling has a negative affect on the game, plex has none.
I support Plex not because I want to buy isk but because i see the negative way these bastards mess with my game and I prefer the PLex system.
Like just about everything else in EvE, the plex mechanic is poorly understood by people who don't actually play the game.
I don't mind cash shops in general, but I prefer the way CCP does it since it cuts the chinese spammers out of the loop entirely (less spam, yay!), integrates the RMT portion into the in-game economy so inflation doesn't go haywire, and, unlike every other RMT transaction I've ever seen, buying ISK in EvE confers no real advantage.
+1
Seriously this whole Eve is a cash shop game discussion is assinine.
I can just as easily claim false to you. I see just as many bots as I did back in 2006 when I started and nothing you say changes the fact that CCP facilitates the exchange of real world money for ISK. Call if "gametime" all you want but it is ingame cash for real world money.
If there is some proof of botting being down I would say that Hulkaggedon dispproving that as just about 50% of of those killed are botters or they would never die.
I am sorry but your attempt to spin the issue will not change the facts. CCP supports RMT and they create a world where botting is given a blind eye making it fairly common.
I like it. Other games should follow. Let the people with jobs be able to play and compete. As I said before I just do not like those that bitch about RMT destroying ingame economies but hold up CCP like its shit does not stink because even if limited PLEX system effects the economy and the game.
It's fun to deconstruct a wall of text in a few simple sentences.
How, exactly, is the possibility to exchange real money for isk covert? Who exactly is denying it? Last i checked it was pretty well known even outside of Eve and overtly advertised by ccp.
More importantly, how can something be covert if the developer is publicising it aggressively as method to take over the rmt business and turn it into good, solid profit while keeping control over the money flow? There were even press releases about it for crying out loud.
And what the heck does this have to do with denial in any way?
Yes, it is fun to attempt to be condescending...
It is covert because it is a cash shop in disguise. Publicly talking about something under a different name or in disguise can still be covert, i'm sorry this slipped by you.
The denial is clearly shown by nearly every post so far.
The fact that no extra ISK is generated somehow invalidates it being a cash shop? Care to explain how?
The definition of a cash shop, ie. a shop where you buy something for cash ingame, now states that the item you are buying has to be created and not exist prior to your purchase?
The Denial goes on...
Heheh... that's the way it is now. In order to defend, or bash, a given thing people will change the meaning or context of something 100 times if necessary. If the current meaning of a word of phrase doesn't fit your argument... change it! It happens all the time.
People will always dance around or spin a topic that's unfavorable to their point-of-view. Did you read the DF forums around the time of that game's "launch". Holy crap they were like tops going 24/7.
That said, I see exactly what you're saying. There's an extra step involved, but at the end of the day, real world money is being exchanged for in-game money. The only reason it's okay is because regardless of who uses the time code, CCP is still getting their fee from the time card purchase. If CCP were cut out of the loop completely and people sold the codes directly to each other, cutting out CCP as "middle man", I'm pretty sure you'd see a very different attitude by them. Although, maybe not since CCP gets a sub fee out of it; their "cut" if you will. Could be they've embraced it only so there's no sense of "CCP isn't doing anything about RMT in their game"
Pot calling the kettle black aye!
Personally, I think the OP might own a RTM business. I find it very strange how he would change the meaning of GTC to cash shop, when this is clearly not the case, and use it to bash EVE.
It's strange because many games do have real cash shops and these are just as obvious. It would leave one to think he is just mad at CCP because his RTM business isn't what it use to be.
Of course this overlooks the obvious explanation that he is just a Troll that is Flaming a forum.
I can just as easily claim false to you. I see just as many bots as I did back in 2006 when I started and nothing you say changes the fact that CCP facilitates the exchange of real world money for ISK. Call if "gametime" all you want but it is ingame cash for real world money.
If there is some proof of botting being down I would say that Hulkaggedon dispproving that as just about 50% of of those killed are botters or they would never die.
I am sorry but your attempt to spin the issue will not change the facts. CCP supports RMT and they create a world where botting is given a blind eye making it fairly common.
I like it. Other games should follow. Let the people with jobs be able to play and compete. As I said before I just do not like those that bitch about RMT destroying ingame economies but hold up CCP like its shit does not stink because even if limited PLEX system effects the economy and the game.
Yeah... CCP supports RMT because they don't ever ban isk sellers/buyers.
Yeah... CCP ignores botting/hacking because they never ban hackers and botters... ever.
You see botting in game so that means CCP agrees with botting? lol
Seriously? We're going to have to stop here and pull an agree to disagree.
I refuse to go back and forth with someone that doesn't understand the Plex system and the benefits of such a system over a normal currency seller.
Like just about everything else in EvE, the plex mechanic is poorly understood by people who don't actually play the game.
I don't mind cash shops in general, but I prefer the way CCP does it since it cuts the chinese spammers out of the loop entirely (less spam, yay!), integrates the RMT portion into the in-game economy so inflation doesn't go haywire, and, unlike every other RMT transaction I've ever seen, buying ISK in EvE confers no real advantage.
+1
Seriously this whole Eve is a cash shop game discussion is assinine.
Thanks. I'm going to quote myself (and you) just put this on the new last page.
Seriously, if I gave someone who is complaining about plex $500 to spend on plex, what would you do with it, other than end up being a comedy killmail? I'm being serious here - this kind of thing happens all the time. I've been involved in more than one kill against people who bought a bunch of expensive toys with plex thinking it would make them pwn or something, then lost it all inside of 10 minutes because they were clueless.
Allows you to click an ingame button to instantly buy ammo. The ammo appears in your inventory and your credit card is billed.
Eve is a sort of cash shop game, but your not allowed to point that out. Expect to be flamed mercilessly by Eve players.
Oh don't worry, flame suit is on.
As the first response above clearly shows, people are happy to respond without reading the post, so i can't expect too much.
As is the title...
" Denial "
Good post though Neysu , i have been playing Eve on and off since 2003, and i can nod my head to most of the things you write , but ive learned to live the current terms of eve.
But good post, constructive , and dont mind the trolls who know nothing.
CCP supports RMT as long as it is theirs...thus supports RMT not Gold Sellers
CCP has said at fanfest they they target botters that sell isk for money and turn a blind eye to botters that bot for themselves so long as they do not receive numerous complaints about a botter. One of the reason they made belt refresh every downtime was to remove some of the botting complaints. Thus while not openly supporting botting they allow and understand its purpose in their games structure.
Welcome to the real world Rock...thanks for visiting.
And as you said I refuse to continue this coversation with someone that does not understand the PLEX system and what RMT is.
Comments
I dont particularly like it, but the fact is, the way it is implemented it doesn't do any real harm. It is a question of "least harm". People will RMT - there's no getting away from it. It happens in every MMO. Given that, CCP have decided to provide a legal avenue that directs additional revenue by increasing the subscriber base to themselves - who are providing the service in the first place. And the PLEX system is structed such that it is somewhat homeostatic. If you try and buy or sell too many PLEX, the market will adjust the price against you.
An important point to remember is: Someone who wants to play for free only has the incentive to make enough extra ISK each month to buy a PLEX. Someone who is RMTing ISK will make as much ISK as they possibly can. A major advantage of the PLEX system is that it undermines the illicit RMT market.
Given the extremely transient nature of possession in EVE, merely being able to buy ISK from another player is a questionable advantage. The great majority of PLEX sellers are guys who work all week and want to use their limited game time PvPing rather than ratting. They sell a PLEX every few weeks, spend the ISK on PvP ships and go play the game. Meanwhile, many people on limited incomes are able to play who otherwise would not be able to (I dont see many RMT websites giving away free subscription time btw). I really dont see the harm. Your principles might be offended, but in a practical sense, what deleterious effect has the PLEX system actually had on you?
In short, it is important to remember that CCP themselves only sell game time. That's a very important difference between their PLEX system and normal MMO "cash shops". An MMO company that sells game time is something of a "Dog bites man" scandal.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Anyone that supports the service in Eve online should just make sure they keep out of threads about gold sellers in other games because hypocrits suck. I am all for gold selling in all games, btw.
People need to stop living in a bubble.
You think P2p games aren't filled with gold sellers/buyers?
I give CCP major props for trying to cull the situation by keeping it in house.
Wanna use money to buy isk? wanna use isk to buy game time? go for it.
CCP is freaking smart. Go ahead brother, buy that isk. I'll be right there to collect.
Unlike "cash shops" in F2p games in Eve plex most certainly does not mean you have an Iwin button.
So give it a rest already.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It's all about who is making the profit out of this "gold selling"
What happens when third partys sell gold? Gold sellers hurt a game, they bot and hack to make currency to sell, they hack accounts and get them banned or sell them. They keep all profits and cut out the dev. They put undue stress on a server and generally mess up an in game economy.
What happens with CCPs plex system? A player can use Rl cash to buy gametime(This gametime is bought from CCP) after the gametime is purchased the player can choose to use said gametime for his own characters or turn it into a in game item called Plex. This item can be bought by a player not able to pay for the game but has the time to make decent isk. In turn the seller made 250-275 million isk. The isk used to buy this plex was made by normal gameplay means, no hacking or boting and doesnt put stress on the server.
So what really just happened? You had a player buy you 30 days of gametime in turn giving them 250-275isk for buying it for you. End result? CCP had someone buy gametime, no one is hacking or botting, noone is getting their accounts jacked and sold/banned, server stress is down.
Now why would anyone with an actual brain not be for the plex system? And how is this anything like what a gold seller does?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
well it has not stopped botting. If anything I know a lot of people that bot mine when not "playing" to make isk to buy PLEX. So that part of your argument just does not hold water.
That's not true at all. By using Hacks and botting you can out farm a normal player in eve ten fold. thats what puts stress on the server. One account doing the work of ten inflates the amount of isk being made and messes with the economy so yes hacking and botting make isk.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Perfect example of Natural Selection!
In that case, I am sorry to say, your "friend" is a god damb moron.
What advantage has he actually accrued for his $1000 a month, might I ask? Because if he is spending that kind of cash (and I say if , because we have to take your word for it, and you have to take his word for it) to maintain his corp, I can pretty much predict that the minute he stops, his corp will dry up and blow away. Any decent corp should be more than self-sustaining. And the members certainly should be. he's basically paying people to play with him... pretty sad.
My experience with established corps and alliances is that they're large net consumers of PLEX, not sellers. Candidly, we dont need to pay RL money to raise a couple of hundred mill.
The big PLEX sellers are doing one of two things: raising ISK to buy a character, which is kind of a one-off thing, or they're idiots who think that having lots of deadspace mods on their pirate faction battleship means that they have bought win. Not only are the latter type of players not considered any kind of threat by people like myself, finding one is considered the greatest of good luck - like getting an officer spawn. They're delicious tasty loot pinatas!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
You will never stop botting but it has put a nice dent in it and at the time decreased server stress by over 30%.
We have to understand CCP does not sell isk. They sell gametime. Players buy other players gametime for isk ( this is all kept in game on the games market).
When I was playing WoW I had a buddy that could not afford to play wow anymore so me and a buddy paid for a six month sub for him. in turn he made our alts some crafted gear and bought us mounts.
Its the same thing. The bottom line is Blizzard made cash off someone buying gametime, nothing wrong with that.
Its not like you can log into CCPs site, look at a cash shop, buy xp potions, armor and all types of advantages over regular players.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This is no revelation!.. everyone knows it, CCP knows it, they dont deny it and all its players love it.... your in no way 'clever' to make this realisation.
What is so sad about your post is that you try and twist this into some kind of bad thing!... CCP get involved in RMT to get rid of _Illegal RMT_ that has highly damaging effects to the game, the company, to the players... and yes, to your own financial security.
Illegal RMT'ers are criminals, theifs whos funds are going into god knows what!
CCP's system is clever, innovative and a small stroke of genius and one of the only REAL soloutions to combating Illegal RMT that every MMO should consider.
using their system people were able to donate in-game ISK which got converted into real cash for the Haiti appeal... how many fucking game companies have done that eh?.... and your audacity, and down right arrogance to basterdise their method it into something bad can only be attributed to blind ignorance. That or you yourself are part of an illegal RMT organisation who is using this site in attempt to fight back the only 'Premium rate subscription MMO' company that threatens your existence.
If all MMO producing companies followed CCP's path then you and your crime syndicate's days are numberd, and good freakin riddance to you.
you can frame it as you want, but they are selling isk and promoting botting due to people wanting to buy that game time you flaunt. The high and mighty spin you are trying to create by carefully wording what they are doing is nothing but spin. They created an ingame way to by isk and they turn a blind eye to people botting to buy that isk so long as they do not sell their botting gains for real money. They system works, but to stand and say the shit does not stink is just plain stupid. Botting is as rampant as it would be if, if not more, than if only other companies were selling the isk. Then you would only have gold farmers botting for isk but instead we have gold farmers and PLEX isk farmers along with the ever present Corp isk farmers and Industry min farmers.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
WE the players demand to buy in game gold, maybe not you or me, but a lot do hence the gold sellers all over every MMO even STOL!
When CCP and other companies give us a secure and legal way of doing this we complain. Do you see the irony of the situation?
Don't blame CCP blame your fellow players that buy gold, meh.. not really rocket science eh?
PS: And surely you are not so naive to think that if CCP stop the service then the problem will go away are you?
This is false, Botting is down, hacking is down, isk sellers are making less.
CCP sells gametime, players use in game items to buy other people game time that can't afford it or want to pay for extra alts.
It all stays in house and regular players buying plex do it through normal gameplay means.
You are the one trying to put a negative spin on it. this is whats happening and its good for the game. get over it.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Like just about everything else in EvE, the plex mechanic is poorly understood by people who don't actually play the game.
I don't mind cash shops in general, but I prefer the way CCP does it since it cuts the chinese spammers out of the loop entirely (less spam, yay!), integrates the RMT portion into the in-game economy so inflation doesn't go haywire, and, unlike every other RMT transaction I've ever seen, buying ISK in EvE confers no real advantage.
When someone hacks an account what do they do to it? sell it to a gold seller and in turn that account gets banned for hacking/botting. What sites give you keyloggers? mostly gold seller sites of sites supported by gold seller ads. Who sends the phishing emails to players? same people selling you gold or connected to those who sell you gold.
When someone bots with a character what are they doing? even if in a empty shard they put stress on a server that would otherwise not be there.
Check CCP links CCP banned a very small amount of botters/hackers from eve and the server load decreased 30%!!! what is that telling you?
Gold selling has a negative affect on the game, plex has none.
I support Plex not because I want to buy isk but because i see the negative way these bastards mess with my game and I prefer the PLex system.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
+1
Seriously this whole Eve is a cash shop game discussion is assinine.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I can just as easily claim false to you. I see just as many bots as I did back in 2006 when I started and nothing you say changes the fact that CCP facilitates the exchange of real world money for ISK. Call if "gametime" all you want but it is ingame cash for real world money.
If there is some proof of botting being down I would say that Hulkaggedon dispproving that as just about 50% of of those killed are botters or they would never die.
I am sorry but your attempt to spin the issue will not change the facts. CCP supports RMT and they create a world where botting is given a blind eye making it fairly common.
I like it. Other games should follow. Let the people with jobs be able to play and compete. As I said before I just do not like those that bitch about RMT destroying ingame economies but hold up CCP like its shit does not stink because even if limited PLEX system effects the economy and the game.
Pot calling the kettle black aye!
Personally, I think the OP might own a RTM business. I find it very strange how he would change the meaning of GTC to cash shop, when this is clearly not the case, and use it to bash EVE.
It's strange because many games do have real cash shops and these are just as obvious. It would leave one to think he is just mad at CCP because his RTM business isn't what it use to be.
Of course this overlooks the obvious explanation that he is just a Troll that is Flaming a forum.
Yeah... CCP supports RMT because they don't ever ban isk sellers/buyers.
Yeah... CCP ignores botting/hacking because they never ban hackers and botters... ever.
You see botting in game so that means CCP agrees with botting? lol
Seriously? We're going to have to stop here and pull an agree to disagree.
I refuse to go back and forth with someone that doesn't understand the Plex system and the benefits of such a system over a normal currency seller.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Thanks. I'm going to quote myself (and you) just put this on the new last page.
Seriously, if I gave someone who is complaining about plex $500 to spend on plex, what would you do with it, other than end up being a comedy killmail? I'm being serious here - this kind of thing happens all the time. I've been involved in more than one kill against people who bought a bunch of expensive toys with plex thinking it would make them pwn or something, then lost it all inside of 10 minutes because they were clueless.
Good post though Neysu , i have been playing Eve on and off since 2003, and i can nod my head to most of the things you write , but ive learned to live the current terms of eve.
But good post, constructive , and dont mind the trolls who know nothing.
List of SOE lies
CCP supports RMT as long as it is theirs...thus supports RMT not Gold Sellers
CCP has said at fanfest they they target botters that sell isk for money and turn a blind eye to botters that bot for themselves so long as they do not receive numerous complaints about a botter. One of the reason they made belt refresh every downtime was to remove some of the botting complaints. Thus while not openly supporting botting they allow and understand its purpose in their games structure.
Welcome to the real world Rock...thanks for visiting.
And as you said I refuse to continue this coversation with someone that does not understand the PLEX system and what RMT is.