How many newbs have your sparred with? How many mid-elvel characters ahve you sparred with? How many people who are better than you have you sparred with?
If have seen people of all levels fight, and tried to help them level and develop you would know better.
As a mater of fact I have:
100 / 100 G-Axe
Near mastery 1H
340+ HP
100 magic in LM, GM, Arcane, FM, EM
80 all other magics ecept water which is 60+
I am not complete
I see guys with far lower stats than I do who wreck the top guys on the server. If I don't watch myself agaisnt some of our new players I will die (did the other night). One of our experienced PvP'ers ran through town on a new character completely wrecking completely developed raiders.
The difference between you and me is that I don't make excuses when I die. When I sapr with others we watch and try to help them get better. If a destoyer isn't sticking, we tell him. If a player isn't kiting to heal, we tell them. If a player pulls his wand in melee range of a destroyer we tell them. This is the difference between competitive players and newbs.
Oh yeah we have been power leveling for the last 2 weeks (3-4 sessions) and our guys are all either near mastery or to 50 mastery. Some have only been playing for ~3 weeks.
The trend i have noticed is that veterans seem to defend the requirement of the long grind. How can you blame them? If i was at 350 hp with super weapon skills and crazy arcane magic and all that I would do anything to justify the pain i went through. People like hotjazz recognize that although they have endured the pain and agony of the pve grind, it would be a better game if the grind wasn't as extensive and required.
On the other hand I haven't even seen a single red player or gotten killed by anything other than a goblin.
One question I have to all the "vets" is this: what is your ratio of PVE kills to PvP kills?
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
I just helped power level a new guy from 30 skill to 50 mastery in two weeks (3-4 sessions). The we started dueling. At first he let me get back shots, pulled his wand within melee range, didn't kite to heal. WE practiced adn he got better.
2 weeks after he joined our guild he was solely repsonsible for taking out some fo the top guys on the server (pain train) and capturing a schooner.
In addition, I know a vet who got a recent ban for macroing. So he was helping one of our new guys power level when we got raided. While on the new toon he utterly destroyed some really developed players who raided our city.
if others can do it, tthen you can. Quit making excuses.
Most new players lalow people to get back shots, power attacks, let destroyers get wand shots, fight on foot vs mounted opponents, etc.
Haha, forgot
-It`s not stats and level, it`s playerskill.
Come on, do you really belive this?
Sure playerskill is important when you meet an equally leveled char, but for new players it means shit. You are just another "I have worked hard for my levels" player. It`s sad you rather have an empty Darkfall with you at the top, than a buzzing world where new players could have fun.
I have killed more than 19k utterly boring npc`s on my main char, and more than 6k on my alt. At the moment all I do is raising my secondary magery skills and getting my third two hand mastery to 75+. My char is almost complete, so I have no need to cry about others getting some slack. I would be happy to get more players to Darkfall, you just want more noobs.
Yes i believe it is skill. How is it not skill? you have heard many stories of people who are skilled and can;t do anything with it and get killed by a skilled new player....
Most new players lalow people to get back shots, power attacks, let destroyers get wand shots, fight on foot vs mounted opponents, etc.
Haha, forgot
-It`s not stats and level, it`s playerskill.
Come on, do you really belive this?
Sure playerskill is important when you meet an equally leveled char, but for new players it means shit. You are just another "I have worked hard for my levels" player. It`s sad you rather have an empty Darkfall with you at the top, than a buzzing world where new players could have fun.
I have killed more than 19k utterly boring npc`s on my main char, and more than 6k on my alt. At the moment all I do is raising my secondary magery skills and getting my third two hand mastery to 75+. My char is almost complete, so I have no need to cry about others getting some slack. I would be happy to get more players to Darkfall, you just want more noobs.
Yes i believe it is skill. How is it not skill? you have heard many stories of people who are skilled and can;t do anything with it and get killed by a skilled new player....
Can skill make up for large differences between skill levels? i.e. one player has all skills 100/high stats and another has all around 50 skills with low stats? If so I don't see what the complaining about the grind is all about.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
I just helped power level a new guy from 30 skill to 50 mastery in two weeks (3-4 sessions). The we started dueling. At first he let me get back shots, pulled his wand within melee range, didn't kite to heal. WE practiced adn he got better.
I`m not saying skills don`t matter. I know they do, as I pretty much suck in pvp with a char slightly better than yours. But we can`t send the new players up against the 300. This is the fighting conditions I meet in a normal siege.
It doensn`t really matter if your recruit have 50 mastery and 230 health when you are up against these kind of players. Most normal pvper see this after a few weeks and quit. Do you tell your recruit he have to grind high end weapons/armor after he`s done leveling?
To bad AV just added some fluff and fixes this patch. We wont see any influx of new players this time.
I just helped power level a new guy from 30 skill to 50 mastery in two weeks (3-4 sessions). The we started dueling. At first he let me get back shots, pulled his wand within melee range, didn't kite to heal. WE practiced adn he got better.
I`m not saying skills don`t matter. I know they do, as I pretty much suck in pvp with a char slightly better than yours. But we can`t send the new players up against the 300. This is the fighting conditions I meet in a normal siege.
It doensn`t really matter if your recruit have 50 mastery and 230 health when you are up against these kind of players. Most normal pvper see this after a few weeks and quit. Do you tell your recruit he have to grind high end weapons/armor after he`s done leveling?
To bad AV just added some fluff and fixes this patch. We wont see any influx of new players this time.
Bugger.
And we meet the same.
Our newbs who have between 2 weeks to 1 month in game have between 240-285 health. Like I said before when they take out guild such as pain-train (and others) they have no issues.
They do need to work on group support more, but hat has nohting to do with what is on your cahracter tab.
Looks like AV finally did something right. They have ninja patched the stat gain and you gain vitality at a rate of .01 each node. At the start of DF I had to mine for one hour to get that gain, good job.
Why are people complaining if they get .01 vitality each node?
You just need to empty 100 nodes for 1 vitality. To get to my vitality stat, a new player only needs to mine 5000 nodes. Each node only take 8 minutes, so a new player will only mine for 40000 minutes(not including the time looking for nodes). 40000 minutes are only
666 hours......the number of the beast.
There is no grind in Darkfall so start mining you lazy fuckers. It`s only 666 hours non stop mining to get where I am. And that`s only vitality, have fun grinding the hard stats like int. I wonder why a full-loot pvp mmo where you need thousands of hour harvesting and 10000 npc kills to pvp, don`t get any subscribers.
I fought NPCs non stop for 28 minutes with a 2-hand GS. Only stop was transfer spells and heals. My vitality gain in 28 minutes of melee was .02 from 80.51 to 80.53, so melee is almost twice as slow as mining.
The fastest way to get my vitality for a new player is 666 hours non stop mining, so stop telling lies to the new players. Darkfall is the biggest grind ever made. The grind is so huge the Koreans are complaining. It is a level based mmo where you need to kill thousands of NPCs to be pvp competitive.
IN about 3-4 nights of melee power leveling our new guys are all 240+ HP. The last one to hit 75 to get mastery (10 minutes ago) has 240 HP. His character is 2 weeks old. He currently has the lowest HP off our new guys all less than a month odl. All but one only play a couple of hours a night.
I know my gatherer after a year has FAR lower HP than these guys.
gathering, as it alsways has been is the short bus of character development.
I dare you and every other level defender to test it out yourself.
If your gathering alt have less than 240 hp after a year, you better do some mining or logging. My gathering alt had 75 vitality after a year, so I call your numbers bullshit. Why not tell it as it is. You think you have deseved the superiority over new players through hard and boring grind. I think those thoughts are killing the game I like and play, so I will oppose you and others as often as I can.
You think you have deseved the superiority over new players through hard and boring grind. I think those thoughts are killing the game I like and play, so I will oppose you and others as often as I can.
I have been thinking lately about the reason why someone would oppose a lessend skill grind. the only thing i can come up with are these 2 reasons:
1. what you said above, thinking that they deserve superiority over new players through the grind.
2. they kill new players all day and don't want them to advance and gain the ability to fight back.
Other than these 2 reasons why would you oppose lessening the grind? You cant say you care about the game and want the integrity of the concept to stay intact because if you cared about the game you would want more people playing, meaning there would have to be a lessened grind. If you don't think there would be more people playing if there was less of a grind then you are most likely wrong and probably not very sharp.
I have to say after playing through the trial the game seems barren and empty. I managed to ride around on a mount for a few hours after getting my first one stolen and I didn't see anyone except people near starter towns hitting resource nodes. I don't know what the environment is like PvP wise with other races but I have not been pked yet as a human. The world is so large and the pop is so low that it is hard to find someone else unless you look near starter towns. I don't see how anyone can call this game healthy.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
I fought NPCs non stop for 28 minutes with a 2-hand GS. Only stop was transfer spells and heals. My vitality gain in 28 minutes of melee was .02 from 80.51 to 80.53, so melee is almost twice as slow as mining.
We all know what is involved in increasing stats, no one put a pistol to your head and forced you to do it. If it's such a gamebreaker play something that doesn't have such barriers, play a game where you can get to max level in two weeks of casual play. It seems obvious to me that is what you want so why not do it? So many people complain constantly over and over about "the stat grind" but never realise it's their own fault. It's like someone offering you a shit sandwich and they tell you it's got dog shit in it and you eat it and then complain constantly that it tastes like shit ... well DUH!
If you need more than you're willing to grind out to be "PvP viable" in your opinion then what are you doing bitching about it? Just do what your compatriots do and AFK swim whilst playing WoW or there are darker alternatives
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
We all know what is involved in increasing stats, no one put a pistol to your head and forced you to do it. If it's such a gamebreaker play something that doesn't have such barriers, play a game where you can get to max level in two weeks of casual play. It seems obvious to me that is what you want so why not do it? So many people complain constantly over and over about "the stat grind" but never realise it's their own fault. It's like someone offering you a shit sandwich and they tell you it's got dog shit in it and you eat it and then complain constantly that it tastes like shit ... well DUH!
If you need more than you're willing to grind out to be "PvP viable" in your opinion then what are you doing bitching about it? Just do what your compatriots do and AFK swim whilst playing WoW or there are darker alternatives
Agreed. I've never once afked anything - I'm having a lot of fun just playing the game. I've seen posts here listing how many nhours it takes to afk swim until X stat is maxed - if that's what you're doing I'd be bored as hell if I were you also.
btw - Agricola - love the sig..I laugh every time I see it
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Haha I`ve played this game from the start, and I know AV are listening to the playerbase. I also know some will always oppose new and better changes. I honestly belive a shorter grind will improve Darkfall, so sorry I wont stop.
Oguz: I don`t grind vitality, I was just debunking another lie. The grind I do now is just fine tuning my secondary spells and buffs. My char is PVP ready, but I need 30k pvp ready players to fight against. I want them to be ready as soon as possible.
We all know what is involved in increasing stats, no one put a pistol to your head and forced you to do it. If it's such a gamebreaker play something that doesn't have such barriers, play a game where you can get to max level in two weeks of casual play. It seems obvious to me that is what you want so why not do it? So many people complain constantly over and over about "the stat grind" but never realise it's their own fault. It's like someone offering you a shit sandwich and they tell you it's got dog shit in it and you eat it and then complain constantly that it tastes like shit ... well DUH!
If you need more than you're willing to grind out to be "PvP viable" in your opinion then what are you doing bitching about it? Just do what your compatriots do and AFK swim whilst playing WoW or there are darker alternatives
If there were a bunch of other FFA full-loot PvP games out with the same level of quality that Darfkall provides, I'm sure Hotjazz, myself and the countless other PvP fans out there that have problems with Darkfall would be more than happy to migrate to them. Unfortunately Darkfall is the only game that delivers what we are looking for. It just has this immensely tedious and horrible grind on top of it. This is why we stay here and we continuously post in hopes of changing the game. We want to play Darkfall for EVERYTHING ELSE it provides. There is no other game that compares.
If AV would just change this one thing, thousands of us would be playing right now instead of posting on these forums. The game would benefit greatly as a result. I don't care if a handful of veterans are butt-hurt because they lose their advantage over noobs in the process.
If there were a bunch of other FFA full-loot PvP games out with the same level of quality that Darfkall provides, I'm sure Hotjazz, myself and the countless other PvP fans out there that have problems with Darkfall would be more than happy to migrate to them. Unfortunately Darkfall is the only game that delivers what we are looking for. It just has this immensely tedious and horrible grind on top of it. This is why we stay here and we continuously post in hopes of changing the game. We want to play Darkfall for EVERYTHING ELSE it provides. There is no other game that compares.
If AV would just change this one thing, thousands of us would be playing right now instead of posting on these forums. The game would benefit greatly as a result. I don't care if a handful of veterans are butt-hurt because they lose their advantage over noobs in the process.
You can't predict that.
Here's what I don't get... Why do so many people seem to think that *they* have "The Answer" that no one else has thought of and is *guaranteed* to work? Why do so many people seem to think that they know what's best for a game... better than the very people who developed it?
Another thing I don't get... I'm noticing a pattern in MMO players over the past few years. A new MMO is coming out that they're interested in... but they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail.
I have only this question to that.... Why the hell should anyone be given any faster or easier a time in a game than anyone else, based entirely on when they decided to start? I mean... you (you in general) could have started back at the beginning along with those others who did... You chose not to. You chose to wait. Why does that entitle you to a faster/easier ride? Why is it unfair to expect you to go through the same process they did? Why should all their time and effort be undermined because *you* decided to grace the game with your presence 6+ months after its launch?
Where the hell does this "entitled" mentality come from? Where does the conceit come from from people who think that because *they* and some other people they know of don't like the game the way it is, that they represent "thousands" who would otherwise be playing it and/or woul leave? Where the hell do you people come up with this crap? And it's not only here with DF... It's with practically every MMO I follow. People complaining about being "punished for not starting when everyone else did".
Why should the game change to suit *you* and the "thousands" you claim to represent and/or speak for? The reality is, you speak only for yourselves. Yes, I'm aware that using big sounding numbers like "thousands of people" makes the argument seem more important than it is... It's also completely transparent. No one can speak for anyone but themselves... Unless someone has a roster or petition with the signatures of those "thousands" of people they claim to represent? I've yet to see one of those, though.
Yes, I know you people "want to get to the end game so you can PvP". So did the people who started months back... and they still had to go through the process to get there. Why should you be given any easier a ride than they got?
DF is what it is. AV will make changes to the game as it deems fit, maintaining it as the kind of game they want it to be. The only decision is... if the game is suitable to you as is or not. If not, then the decision should be clear, and demanding changes to the game to suit you is not it.
Don't get me wrong... Suggestions, thoughts.. opinions... All fine. But get off this self-important, entitled, "It's not fair that we can't catch up with people who started 6+ months before us in a fraction of the time!" BS. Of course it's fair... You chose to start playing months later, no one forced you to.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Another wall of text from someone who don`t play the game.
"Why do so many people seem to think that *they* have "The Answer" that no one else has thought of and is *guaranteed* to work? Why do so many people seem to think that they know what's best for a game... better than the very people who developed it?"
Erm why do I think I know the answer?
-Because I play the game for hours every day.
-Because I talk to the players ingame.
-Because I see clans and alliance crumble and dissapear because the lack of players
-Because I read forums.
-Because my RL friends quit for that reason.
I don`t really care if the weather man on TV say it`s sunny if I`m standing outside in the rain.
"they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail. "
Hah, I started 12 months ago and I have a vet char, so don`t you dare label me as a disgrunted new player. I`ve done all the pvp DF have to offer and I love it. I want more of it, but we don`t have the numbers anymore. We simply doesn`t have enough massive battle, large sieges, ship battles and frequent pvp.
We have tried the grind method for a year now, and i doesn`t work. You don`t belive this because it doen`t fit into your "theory", I know this because i experience this every day. I want new player to be competetive faster simply because I want players to play this game with. If I wanted a solo game I wouldn`t pick DF. I don`t care if they become my enemies or friends as long as they help this game being fun and alive. I`ve played from the start, and belive me we`ve lost thousands of player.
"Yes, I know you people "want to get to the end game so you can PvP". So did the people who started months back... and they still had to go through the process to get there. Why should you be given any easier a ride than they got?"
When I started we were all new and that was the golden days of DF. The game was fun for everybody because we were equal, and all were competitive. The downfall came when the exploiters and hardcore grinders got an upperhand in pvp and we had to join the grindrace to compete. It`s sad to say the game has had a steady decline after that. We did get some players back after AV tried to reduced the grind, but it was to little to make an impact. So to get the golden days back we need to get the new players competitive faster.
I know it`s hard for the pve players to know how a pvper think and some are right, you only need to grind if you want to compete.
Another wall of text from someone who don`t play the game.
"Why do so many people seem to think that *they* have "The Answer" that no one else has thought of and is *guaranteed* to work? Why do so many people seem to think that they know what's best for a game... better than the very people who developed it?"
Erm why do I think I know the answer?
-Because I play the game for hours every day.
-Because I talk to the players ingame.
-Because I see clans and alliance crumble and dissapear because the lack of players
-Because I read forums.
-Because my RL friends quit for that reason.
I don`t really care if the weather man on TV say it`s sunny if I`m standing outside in the rain.
And there are others who enjoy the game as it is. Regardless, you're claiming to know better than Aventurine themselves, how their game should be made which is pretty ridiculous. You're certainly not alone in that belief, though... There are arm-chair experts in *every* MMO who are *certain* that they know their game better than those who created it, and have "The Answer" to fix all its woes and have the company rolling in new sub fees. If only those clueless devs who spent years and millions of dollars developing a MMO that got you interested enough to try it in the first place would listen to you on how it *should* be!!
Maybe they should hire you on as a consultant!
You and those you know don't like the way it is. Fine. That's your prerogative. But not liking the way something is and knowing people who left the game does not mean you know how to "fix" it in a way that would be better for everyone. If that were the case, then every player, in every MMO who has a gripe with some aspect of it, would be a genius MMO developer who knows how to "fix" their given game.
Eventually it comes back to what I've always said: At some point, you (in general) need to make the decision whether or not you can continue enjoying a game as is, enough to warrant a subscription. If not, then it might be time to move on.
And if the game starts losing too many subs? Well, then it's on AV to identify the problem and find a solution to it that will hopefully correct it. Perhaps it will come from the players... perhaps it will come from some variation on an idea they were planning on developing over time even in advance of the game's launch... Again, AV knows more about their game than any player does.. not only terms of how it is *now* but in terms of exactly where they plan to take it in the future. And of course, where it goes in the future will be built off of where it stands at this moment. That is, unless they're completely winging it, which I doubt.
"they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail. "
Hah, I started 12 months ago and I have a vet char, so don`t you dare label me as a disgrunted new player. I`ve done all the pvp DF have to offer and I love it. I want more of it, but we don`t have the numbers anymore. We simply doesn`t have enough massive battle, large sieges, ship battles and frequent pvp.
Did I name you specifically? Don't believe I did. I was commenting on a common behavior I see across MMOs and, if I'm not mistaken, I even noted that I see it in other MMOs as well.
We have tried the grind method for a year now, and i doesn`t work. You don`t belive this because it doen`t fit into your "theory", I know this because i experience this every day. I want new player to be competetive faster simply because I want players to play this game with. If I wanted a solo game I wouldn`t pick DF. I don`t care if they become my enemies or friends as long as they help this game being fun and alive. I`ve played from the start, and belive me we`ve lost thousands of player.
See... I played the game for 1.5 months and decided to stop for a while 'til they've filled it out more. But to me... that grind never phased me, and no I wasn't hacking or macroing. I was playing. But then again, my approach to the game wasn't "gotta get to the end-game to PvP because that's what it's all about". To me, whatever the game provides as content is 'what it's about', and there's more to do in DF than just PvP.
Point being... to many it might be unbearable. To many others it's just fine. It comes down to how the player approaches the game.
And here's the thing... even people in games that have practically non-existent grind are still leaving, or at least complaining, by the thousands, if not more, because they still think the progress is too slow. So... it's all relative, isn't it?
At the end of the day, the answer still seems, to me, that people need to simply accept that the game isn't set up in a way that they enjoy, and perhaps decide to move on.
"Yes, I know you people "want to get to the end game so you can PvP". So did the people who started months back... and they still had to go through the process to get there. Why should you be given any easier a ride than they got?"
When I started we were all new and that was the golden days of DF. The game was fun for everybody because we were equal, and all were competitive. The downfall came when the exploiters and hardcore grinders got an upperhand in pvp and we had to join the grindrace to compete. It`s sad to say the game has had a steady decline after that. We did get some players back after AV tried to reduced the grind, but it was to little to make an impact. So to get the golden days back we need to get the new players competitive faster.
So because people hacked (which is going to happen even if they reduce the grind to near zero; again, see other MMOs for reference), the game itself should be changed...
I'll make you a bet... Right now. If AV reduces the grind/time to get to level cap and it's cut down to a rate that players like yourself or others feel is more acceptible... I guarantee you the following is going to happen:
- "thousands of people" (as in a significant number) are still going to feel it's "too slow" and complain that it needs to be faster.
- people are still going to hack and macro their way to the end-game because *any* grind to them - whether it's a year, a month or a week, is "too much" and they're going to want to circumvent it.
There will be posts, just like yours, from people claiming that the game will fail if they don't "fix the grind to end game", etc. etc.
Point being... you're never going to make "enough" people happy. And, if it got to that point where you and those you know felt it was "right", then what do you say to those thousands more who still believe it's too slow? "Too bad, deal with it, it's fine as it is?"
I know it`s hard for the pve players to know how a pvper think and some are right, you only need to grind if you want to compete.
I am a PvP'er, in as much as I will play PvP MMOs, and fight when it's appropriate (as in, I don't go out of my way looking for targets all the time), but I still don't need to "rush" to end game so long as there's enough else in the game to keep me occupied, besides PvP, along the way.
So... when you're talking about PvE versus PvP players... you really can't speak in such general terms as you do there. It's not a "black or white" situation.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
When you have 150 hps and you are getting hit by 50 dmg per hit, you die in 3 hits. When you hit your enemy for 9 points of dmg and that enemy has 300+ HPs, you need to hit him 30+ times. Your heals heal u, i can't remember, 5 hps per tick? When his heals heal him to full health despite 4-5 noobs hitting him for 6-9 dmg per hit - you tell me, do we stand a chance??? Or we just suck so bad that we allowed to get 3 shotted to death and did not land 30+ shots on him before he healed himself?
if you are hitting for 15 you need to think about not using your starter weapon
Then reality sets in.....
If you are going toe-to-toe and trading hits with an enemy you are going to get raped. Period. it doesn't matter if you had 500 HP. Most new players lalow people to get back shots, power attacks, let destroyers get wand shots, fight on foot vs mounted opponents, etc.
REALITY
For some real numbers from actual in game testing you shoud refer to this thread:
I have watched too many new guys spar and helped them with combat healing and kiting to have any illusion that stats matter much at all. I can win duels vs new guys when I am completely debuffed with worse weapons. I can even take them 1 vs many. It isnt related to stats.
Your numbers are so far off I wonder if you actually play the game. Most of the people who post this crap simply get thier ass kicked and want to make excuses.
#1 - has that changed recently? The last time i played (2-3 months ag) I had 160 HPs. I was getting 4 shotted because i was receiving 49-50 dmg per hit. So in 3 shots, I was down to a hair of health and 4th shot killed me.
#2 - I was fighting with the goblin weapons untill I ran out ( I was unable to loot my corpse because the PK just camped the area and never gave me a chance to loot). I don't remember which weapon was doing 6-9 damage, the goblin weapon or the starter weapon. I just remembered immense frustration that 4 noobs were basically locked out of the starting area and were unable to do anything against a single PK. He was moving too fast, killing too fast and healing whatever little damage we were giving him.
EDIT: a bit more info, my toon was not freshly made toon - I spent about 2-3 days doing some quests, killing goblins, buying some skills - It wasn't an hour old toon.
Comments
How many newbs have your sparred with? How many mid-elvel characters ahve you sparred with? How many people who are better than you have you sparred with?
If have seen people of all levels fight, and tried to help them level and develop you would know better.
As a mater of fact I have:
100 / 100 G-Axe
Near mastery 1H
340+ HP
100 magic in LM, GM, Arcane, FM, EM
80 all other magics ecept water which is 60+
I am not complete
I see guys with far lower stats than I do who wreck the top guys on the server. If I don't watch myself agaisnt some of our new players I will die (did the other night). One of our experienced PvP'ers ran through town on a new character completely wrecking completely developed raiders.
The difference between you and me is that I don't make excuses when I die. When I sapr with others we watch and try to help them get better. If a destoyer isn't sticking, we tell him. If a player isn't kiting to heal, we tell them. If a player pulls his wand in melee range of a destroyer we tell them. This is the difference between competitive players and newbs.
Oh yeah we have been power leveling for the last 2 weeks (3-4 sessions) and our guys are all either near mastery or to 50 mastery. Some have only been playing for ~3 weeks.
it isn't that hard.
The trend i have noticed is that veterans seem to defend the requirement of the long grind. How can you blame them? If i was at 350 hp with super weapon skills and crazy arcane magic and all that I would do anything to justify the pain i went through. People like hotjazz recognize that although they have endured the pain and agony of the pve grind, it would be a better game if the grind wasn't as extensive and required.
On the other hand I haven't even seen a single red player or gotten killed by anything other than a goblin.
One question I have to all the "vets" is this: what is your ratio of PVE kills to PvP kills?
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
I just helped power level a new guy from 30 skill to 50 mastery in two weeks (3-4 sessions). The we started dueling. At first he let me get back shots, pulled his wand within melee range, didn't kite to heal. WE practiced adn he got better.
2 weeks after he joined our guild he was solely repsonsible for taking out some fo the top guys on the server (pain train) and capturing a schooner.
In addition, I know a vet who got a recent ban for macroing. So he was helping one of our new guys power level when we got raided. While on the new toon he utterly destroyed some really developed players who raided our city.
if others can do it, tthen you can. Quit making excuses.
Yes i believe it is skill. How is it not skill? you have heard many stories of people who are skilled and can;t do anything with it and get killed by a skilled new player....
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
Can skill make up for large differences between skill levels? i.e. one player has all skills 100/high stats and another has all around 50 skills with low stats? If so I don't see what the complaining about the grind is all about.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
I`m not saying skills don`t matter. I know they do, as I pretty much suck in pvp with a char slightly better than yours. But we can`t send the new players up against the 300. This is the fighting conditions I meet in a normal siege.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWs6Zlsl83E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9YOzKB2M5s&hd=1
It doensn`t really matter if your recruit have 50 mastery and 230 health when you are up against these kind of players. Most normal pvper see this after a few weeks and quit. Do you tell your recruit he have to grind high end weapons/armor after he`s done leveling?
To bad AV just added some fluff and fixes this patch. We wont see any influx of new players this time.
Bugger.
And we meet the same.
Our newbs who have between 2 weeks to 1 month in game have between 240-285 health. Like I said before when they take out guild such as pain-train (and others) they have no issues.
They do need to work on group support more, but hat has nohting to do with what is on your cahracter tab.
yes
Looks like AV finally did something right. They have ninja patched the stat gain and you gain vitality at a rate of .01 each node. At the start of DF I had to mine for one hour to get that gain, good job.
We don`t have to AFK swim anymore
it was the same before the patch. PvE gains are bigger.
Why are people complaining if they get .01 vitality each node?
You just need to empty 100 nodes for 1 vitality. To get to my vitality stat, a new player only needs to mine 5000 nodes. Each node only take 8 minutes, so a new player will only mine for 40000 minutes(not including the time looking for nodes). 40000 minutes are only
666 hours......the number of the beast.
There is no grind in Darkfall so start mining you lazy fuckers. It`s only 666 hours non stop mining to get where I am. And that`s only vitality, have fun grinding the hard stats like int. I wonder why a full-loot pvp mmo where you need thousands of hour harvesting and 10000 npc kills to pvp, don`t get any subscribers.
or PvE where gains are MUCH faster.
I had to test that, and you are wrong again.
I fought NPCs non stop for 28 minutes with a 2-hand GS. Only stop was transfer spells and heals. My vitality gain in 28 minutes of melee was .02 from 80.51 to 80.53, so melee is almost twice as slow as mining.
The fastest way to get my vitality for a new player is 666 hours non stop mining, so stop telling lies to the new players. Darkfall is the biggest grind ever made. The grind is so huge the Koreans are complaining. It is a level based mmo where you need to kill thousands of NPCs to be pvp competitive.
IN about 3-4 nights of melee power leveling our new guys are all 240+ HP. The last one to hit 75 to get mastery (10 minutes ago) has 240 HP. His character is 2 weeks old. He currently has the lowest HP off our new guys all less than a month odl. All but one only play a couple of hours a night.
I know my gatherer after a year has FAR lower HP than these guys.
gathering, as it alsways has been is the short bus of character development.
I dare you and every other level defender to test it out yourself.
If your gathering alt have less than 240 hp after a year, you better do some mining or logging. My gathering alt had 75 vitality after a year, so I call your numbers bullshit. Why not tell it as it is. You think you have deseved the superiority over new players through hard and boring grind. I think those thoughts are killing the game I like and play, so I will oppose you and others as often as I can.
I have been thinking lately about the reason why someone would oppose a lessend skill grind. the only thing i can come up with are these 2 reasons:
1. what you said above, thinking that they deserve superiority over new players through the grind.
2. they kill new players all day and don't want them to advance and gain the ability to fight back.
Other than these 2 reasons why would you oppose lessening the grind? You cant say you care about the game and want the integrity of the concept to stay intact because if you cared about the game you would want more people playing, meaning there would have to be a lessened grind. If you don't think there would be more people playing if there was less of a grind then you are most likely wrong and probably not very sharp.
I have to say after playing through the trial the game seems barren and empty. I managed to ride around on a mount for a few hours after getting my first one stolen and I didn't see anyone except people near starter towns hitting resource nodes. I don't know what the environment is like PvP wise with other races but I have not been pked yet as a human. The world is so large and the pop is so low that it is hard to find someone else unless you look near starter towns. I don't see how anyone can call this game healthy.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
lol 80 vitalty. Stop grinding already.
@ Hotjazz
We all know what is involved in increasing stats, no one put a pistol to your head and forced you to do it. If it's such a gamebreaker play something that doesn't have such barriers, play a game where you can get to max level in two weeks of casual play. It seems obvious to me that is what you want so why not do it? So many people complain constantly over and over about "the stat grind" but never realise it's their own fault. It's like someone offering you a shit sandwich and they tell you it's got dog shit in it and you eat it and then complain constantly that it tastes like shit ... well DUH!
If you need more than you're willing to grind out to be "PvP viable" in your opinion then what are you doing bitching about it? Just do what your compatriots do and AFK swim whilst playing WoW or there are darker alternatives
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Agreed. I've never once afked anything - I'm having a lot of fun just playing the game. I've seen posts here listing how many nhours it takes to afk swim until X stat is maxed - if that's what you're doing I'd be bored as hell if I were you also.
btw - Agricola - love the sig..I laugh every time I see it
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Haha I`ve played this game from the start, and I know AV are listening to the playerbase. I also know some will always oppose new and better changes. I honestly belive a shorter grind will improve Darkfall, so sorry I wont stop.
Oguz: I don`t grind vitality, I was just debunking another lie. The grind I do now is just fine tuning my secondary spells and buffs. My char is PVP ready, but I need 30k pvp ready players to fight against. I want them to be ready as soon as possible.
If there were a bunch of other FFA full-loot PvP games out with the same level of quality that Darfkall provides, I'm sure Hotjazz, myself and the countless other PvP fans out there that have problems with Darkfall would be more than happy to migrate to them. Unfortunately Darkfall is the only game that delivers what we are looking for. It just has this immensely tedious and horrible grind on top of it. This is why we stay here and we continuously post in hopes of changing the game. We want to play Darkfall for EVERYTHING ELSE it provides. There is no other game that compares.
If AV would just change this one thing, thousands of us would be playing right now instead of posting on these forums. The game would benefit greatly as a result. I don't care if a handful of veterans are butt-hurt because they lose their advantage over noobs in the process.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Another wall of text from someone who don`t play the game.
"Why do so many people seem to think that *they* have "The Answer" that no one else has thought of and is *guaranteed* to work? Why do so many people seem to think that they know what's best for a game... better than the very people who developed it?"
Erm why do I think I know the answer?
-Because I play the game for hours every day.
-Because I talk to the players ingame.
-Because I see clans and alliance crumble and dissapear because the lack of players
-Because I read forums.
-Because my RL friends quit for that reason.
I don`t really care if the weather man on TV say it`s sunny if I`m standing outside in the rain.
"they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail. "
Hah, I started 12 months ago and I have a vet char, so don`t you dare label me as a disgrunted new player. I`ve done all the pvp DF have to offer and I love it. I want more of it, but we don`t have the numbers anymore. We simply doesn`t have enough massive battle, large sieges, ship battles and frequent pvp.
We have tried the grind method for a year now, and i doesn`t work. You don`t belive this because it doen`t fit into your "theory", I know this because i experience this every day. I want new player to be competetive faster simply because I want players to play this game with. If I wanted a solo game I wouldn`t pick DF. I don`t care if they become my enemies or friends as long as they help this game being fun and alive. I`ve played from the start, and belive me we`ve lost thousands of player.
"Yes, I know you people "want to get to the end game so you can PvP". So did the people who started months back... and they still had to go through the process to get there. Why should you be given any easier a ride than they got?"
When I started we were all new and that was the golden days of DF. The game was fun for everybody because we were equal, and all were competitive. The downfall came when the exploiters and hardcore grinders got an upperhand in pvp and we had to join the grindrace to compete. It`s sad to say the game has had a steady decline after that. We did get some players back after AV tried to reduced the grind, but it was to little to make an impact. So to get the golden days back we need to get the new players competitive faster.
I know it`s hard for the pve players to know how a pvper think and some are right, you only need to grind if you want to compete.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
#1 - has that changed recently? The last time i played (2-3 months ag) I had 160 HPs. I was getting 4 shotted because i was receiving 49-50 dmg per hit. So in 3 shots, I was down to a hair of health and 4th shot killed me.
#2 - I was fighting with the goblin weapons untill I ran out ( I was unable to loot my corpse because the PK just camped the area and never gave me a chance to loot). I don't remember which weapon was doing 6-9 damage, the goblin weapon or the starter weapon. I just remembered immense frustration that 4 noobs were basically locked out of the starting area and were unable to do anything against a single PK. He was moving too fast, killing too fast and healing whatever little damage we were giving him.
EDIT: a bit more info, my toon was not freshly made toon - I spent about 2-3 days doing some quests, killing goblins, buying some skills - It wasn't an hour old toon.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.