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This is what MMoRPGs should be like today
LotosSlayer
Member Posts: 247
Seriously, ever since the early 2000s, MMoRPGs haven't been evolving, they've been doing the opposite. No one is innovating anymore. All the new MMos are getting more and more less content, dumbed down, easier, and more unpolished. This is what I think the standard of MMoRPGs should be right now, I'm shocked it isn't, devs probably have the technology and money to do this:
Huge, open, beautiful world, with lots of detail.
Breahtaking graphics.
Good character look customization, atleast 10 times better than the bs all MMos have now.
No bugs.
No instances.
Forced grouping in the form of epic quests(quests the same or greater quality as single player RPGs) that can take hours, and have cutscenes(no more quest text) that can range from 2 minutes to 30 minutes. Far from the "kill 10 boars" we have now.
You wanna solo, you gotta grind, get much less exp and can't do the quests, sorry but this is a MMoRPG.
An amazing storyline that has you dieing waiting to see what happens next as you play.
A well thought out system on how to make finding groups really quick, something like an auto grouper but not as immersion breaking as WoW's dungeon finder.
Meaningful 3 faction PvP. Most areas wouldn't be open PvP, but a lot would be open PvP and some of your equipment would drop if you died, also there would be insentive to go into these zones, such as the best harvesting nodes/quest destinations, etc.
Faction based outpost/fort/village/whatever control where each of them a faction controls, said factions gets more benefits like exp gain.
Challenge. Risk vs reward, time/effort vs reward.
No clear objectives for quests, no showing the way to go on a map/compass, etc.
Exp loss death pentalty, item loss in some areas.
Challenging battles.
Battles should last atleast a minute, not a few seconds like in WoW.
Time it takes to get max level would be something like FFXI.
Something like Notorious Monsters like in FFXI.
Real time travel. Boats, wagon routes, etc. for fantasy. Trains, spaceships for sci-fi.
Combining a class level system like FFXI with a more indepth skill system like Darkfall and UO.
Random events, such as sandstorms, blizzards, tornados, cyclones, etc.
Dynamic weather.
Great AI like Ryzom.
Player based economy.
Local banks, meaning if you bank something in a bank, you can only take it out of that one
Useful and fun harvesting/crafting, but also allowing players to AFK while doing so.
Good driving/flying physics for vehicles if it's sci-fi
Requiring vehicles/horse pulled wagons to carry large amounts of items, such as when harvesting
Non-instanced player houses that can be placed almost anywhere, with lots of customization options.
No player/guild cities, so the official cities are populated. One main neutral city where most people would be, like FFXI has Jeuno, WoW has Orgrimmar.
I can't decide if combat should be like typical MMos, Zelda style, or FPS like Darkfall/FE
End-game consists of raiding, item progression, raising skills, PvP, end-game storylines/quests, leveling sub-jobs/classes using a whole new storyline with whole new quests, and the other stuff mentioned in this post.
No auction house, instead a market place with player owned shops. Players use a terminal to find what item they want, it tells them a random player shop which has that item. This would probably need instancing, maybe 100-200 shops per instance.
Comments? Do you agree/disagree or like/dislike the ideas?
Comments
Oh god....not another one of these threads...yet again
You have a greater chance of being struck in the ass by lightning then ever seeing a game made with those "niche " ideas in it with todays economy and mindset. No business is going to put hundreds of millions of dollars on something like that....everyone keeps expecting developers to just pull money out of their asses for old concepts that just dont sell anymore, youd be better off trying to use that money to make a time machine since neither have any real expectation of success.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
You pretty much just described what Vanguard was suppossed to turn out like!
Amazing when you think of it.
Vanguard was the pinnacle of MMO. And if it was released without bugs, and Sony didnt buy it and put it on life support.
Who knows how MMO world would look like now.
So in short: by now, MMOs should be technically and financially impossible to make, not to mention they have to be good aswell.
Yeah... flying cars that use hydrogen for fuel (out comes water vapors), are faster than cars today, more comfortable, and more safe. -Oh and they must be cheap.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
And if they don't, they can always just wave their magic wands, right?
This is nonsense
Vanguard was almost 90% all stated above. And it was developed mostly by students with no experience in making MMOs.... Heck , Even Ultima online had most of that and it was made over decade ago.
Problem is that most good programmers left video game development. Its underpayed and risky. They make much more money developing banking applications.
And game designers are mostly buisness managers dubbing in game development.
In short problem is not that its impossible to make it.
Problem is that there is no one to make it , and neither there is a wish to make it.
Let me tell you a little secret: Vanguard wasn't that good. Combat-wise it was a dinosaur, graphics weren't that good, no physics... [and the list goes on]. Vanguard definetely does not fill those requirements.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Exactly!
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Tend to agree with the facepalm. I mean a lot of these mechanics aren't terrible -- or at least aren't terrible in isolation -- but some of them pop out as being questionable (especially from the underlying tone of the way they're worded.)
For example, "forced grouping" is just a terrible mindset for a game to be in. In early CoX it didn't feel forced, but rather you simply saw that grouping produced a faster rate of advancement on average (and much faster with a solid group) and so you ended up with a lot of grouping in that game. Plus they had all sorts of awesome mechanics for making groups easier to put together.
One thing that strikes me as outright a bad idea is multiplayer content that "takes hours". Raiding is a complete aberration, because it combines so many multiplicitively bad game mechanics yet is still reasonably popular. I suppose it's a testament to the driving force of character progression that people suffer through it at all. The longer it takes, the more players it takes, and the less ease with which players are able substitute in for missing players = the less likely multiplayer will work and be fun.
Also, Zero Instances + world PVP = zerg-focused PVP. I prefer "play to win" games to "zerg to win".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
What, it's better MMoRPGs be like the lame borefest WoW is? I'm not gunna bother explaining what's wrong with WoW, but that game is unplayable after a few months for people who have played better MMos and people who play longer than 1 hour a day.
How are these features technically and financially impossible to make? Most of them are non-complicated things which have been done in previous MMos. The most expensive would be the single player RPG quality quests/storyline, successful MMo companies have this kind of money. These features aren't niche, it's all about advertisement and popularity whether a game is successful or not. If WoW was a MMo like this it'd have as much, if not more subscribers than it has now, and the subscribers wouldn't just be new players coming in and out and people playing 2 days a week like the majority of WoW's subscriber base.
The reason why WoW has the subs it does is because the way the game is made. Its easy enough a kid could play but yet it still has things for all the hardcore raiders. Not to mention it can play on just about any computer. Id have to think otherwise about WoW being even more popular if it had these ideas.
Forced grouping to do epic quests, and quests that take hours to complete? That I totally would love in a game, but in WoW you only really need to group up for a dungeon run and I only go to level 50 but every run I did was easy and quick. To me WoW feels kinda like a bunch of mini games with quick dungeons, solofest style questing and instanced PvP. The exact opposite of what you and I want in a game. But 11 million seem to like it and thats cool, to each their own.
Grouping gets best XP, that I like too, Im still playing FFXI. But do you think the WoW crowd likes that Idea? From what I gathered WoW players always like to progress their characters at a decent rate, thus the solofest. Compared to FFXI where if you get into a good party you can gain upwards of 9k EXP an hour. But you may be lucky to get 2k exp solo.
I could be wrong and maybe they may like these features they just don't know it yet. The thing that really gets me is the time people spend on WoW compared to FFXI. For WoW according to Xfire the average playtime comes down to just over 4 hours. FFXI sensus the 78% play 1-3 hours and 11% play 4-6 and 5% play 7-9 horus there is more but I would guess that its mostly just mules logged in to sell stuff.
So the majority of people play almost the same amount of time that the WoW players do but yet we find time to group up all most for everything we do. Like just last night I think I played 3 hours and was in a party for like 2 hours and got 2 levels almost 3. It just proves a point that the WoW crowd probably doesn't like downtime and likes the ability to progress their characters the same rate all the time. Thats just a guess but if Im right there is nothing wrong with being that way. I can't expect everyone to be like me.
If I LFG in FFXI I either solo stuff while waiting do some other random things I can do solo without gaining EXP like quests and missions or I just tab out watch some anime untill I get a group invite. Which usually isn't all that long, when you make friends in a game and you have the ability to do multiple jobs on one character and with level sync you should have no problem to find a party really quick. SE has made it so easy to group up even at lower levels, the dunes were packed the other day it was crazy.
Sorry, OP .. but I fundamentally disagree.
I want games to play, not worlds to live in .. and the game content of MMOs has only evolved.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
No. You know why? -You can't please everyone, ever. And you belong to a minority. A vocal minority.
Not one game has ever had not nearly all of those features and been good. How can you think that one "should be"?
Also, Some of those features are just fluff - no real gameplay value. Others are like, Axehilt already suggested, very questionable design choices. There is no one right choice. There is always a downside to everything.
Then there are the unrealistic demands on top of that "list of features" and complexity that it must have no bugs in it.
Only resonable way to make games with such strong features is to build upon something you've previously done. Like Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, CCP, Creative Assembly and many others do. It is very expensive, hard, labor intensive and risky to make something big overnight.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I thought you didn't want instancing?
The list of items above are not progression of the genre but a throwback to days gone by. This is NOT how mmorpgs SHOULD be, this is how YOU would like them.
Games like the OP describes are simply not as popular in today's market. As a result, no developer is going to spend the massive amount of money it would take to develop a game like that for such a small niche of players. Make no mistake: every single game company is in this business to make money. You will not find any large studios taking chances when there are other known game designs that are more profitable.
MMOs were originally supposed to be virtual worlds to live in... the fun is meant to come from the simulation of living a life you couldn't in reality. The MMOs we're seeing now are turning the games away from this concept, making them more and more about achieveing goals pre-determined by the designers. I'd rather live in a virtual world than 'play' a game by simply doing what the devs decide for me.
The majority of people probably haven't ever played any of the older MMOs that were much more of a world-sim. They just discount them because they assume they're not fun.
I agree with the OP's sentiments really, the genre needs to take a huge step back because the direction it's gone in has taken a good few steps outside of what it originally was. It's evolved, sure, but in the process it's lost what made the older games great. I still think modern MMOs need to have their genre relabelled, or maybe we can relabel the old genre and see some devs return to that virtual world development.
OP i've given up.
Im tired of wishing and hoping a new more indepth non-ffa pvp sandbox would release.
I play Eve and I will continue to do so until im placed in a home, diapers are put on me and im feed food through a straw.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
30 minute cut-scenes? Hours just to complete one quest? No objective or marker to show where the quest goal even is?
For people who don't have a lot of free time on their hands, this would put them at a serious disadvantage. If someone can only play an hour or 2 on the weekdays, and maybe 5-6 on weekends, this would completely slow them down. They wouldn't be able to get anything done (relative to others), why with being FORCED to find a good group, then being FORCED to watch long cut-scenes and then being FORCED to do a multi-hour quest? And it would take even more time with no quest marker or obvious objective, and every single battle taking 1-5 minutes? They'd only be able to play on the weekends, and even then only get minor things done! Then there's losing your items when you die or get killed in pvp, and you can't see your banked items without having to go back to the ORIGINAL bank you stored them in?? You better hope that real time travel is quick, because sitting on a boat for an hour and a half to get from one continent to the other just to get something out of your bank in your home town is ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong, I love cinematics and there's nothing like siting down at your comp and completeing a huge quest with a fun group for hours on end and by the time you log off your character is substantially more powerful than he was when you logged in. That's satisfying, but there are always people who have responsibilities and priorities, and not necessarily because they are casuals, (they might REALLY want to play hardcore and spend 10 hours in the game doing everything as fast as possible) but the fact is they don't have the time irl. And its not fair that if they don't have time to complete those epic quests or find a group that they should be punished with sucky solo-grindfest xp and horrible loot. Soloing should at least have SOME degree of a reward system in and of itself because expecting everyone to group up for every little thing is just irrational.
Not to mention, like it was said above, part of WoW's success is its ability to be played on almost ANY PC. With graphics mentioned above, the extreme detail, the dynamic weather (and random events like blizzards, thunderstorms), only people who can run Crysis on max settings will be able to fully enjoy the beauty of this MMO. Everyone else will have to diminish the graphical settings when they play (which no one likes to do and whats the point of a beautiful MMO only a small minority can enjoy it?), assuming their computer can even run it AT ALL.
So, in my opinion, the IDEAS themselves are great on paper, but when you actually execute them, they fall short of their intended success...WAY short.
edit: (at least in today's market)
Purely based on perception.
I'm sure some people starting playing MMORPGs for the virtual world aspect, but I didn't.
I started playing MMORPGs simply because they were RPGs with lots of other players.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I was hoping to see a picture of the holodeck. Anyone have one?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Agree with most points, except
You wanna solo, you gotta grind, get much less exp and can't do the quests, sorry but this is a MMoRPG.
Massive Multiplayer Online Game, does not say Massive Grouping Online Game. Also grind is a playstyle which has nothing to do with a game being a MMORPG. In my opinion of course.
Sorry if I group I don't want to earn more XP, but do like some form of incentive, like special abilities that only work when grouped, in fact I hate most things that offer extra XP as it shortens the lifespan of a MMO, aswell a reall dislike for XP weekends, if the game is using that that I am playing I make sure that weekend will be my off weekend, or perhaps do things that do not offer XP.
When I read your first post IIvaldyr I almost yakked, because I too totally disagree with your opinion and feel MMO's were always meant to be a virtual world (which is what appealed to me) and they have done nothing but move away from that model (devolved if you will) from my perspective.
But then I realized that I'm in a minority, far more people are like you, and want to play a game for fun and entertainment, and as Rock mentioned, we're fighting against a tide that can't be resisted.
I'll be hiding in EVE forever as well unless some INDY dev comes along and surprises me one day.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thoroughly understandable viewpoint, I can't imagine it's fun to have niche tastes in this genre.
I would hope that the future of sandbox gameplay is not that dire though. I wouldn't be surprised to see future MMOs move towards hybrid elements incorporating the best parts of both sandbox and themepark content. I would like to believe that both preferences could be catered for within a single game(world).
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
All I got to say about the orange is if they don't have time to do the stuff, either make time by giving things up, or don't play the game, simple as that. Not to be a dick or anything to these people, but Im so sick of games being made for the people who can only play 1 or 2 hours a day. I am able to play the hours I do because I don't watch TV, and make time for games. Granted I don't have kids and no GF so I have more freetime than some people but, I hang out with frends and have band practice about 2 times a week.
Anyways I'd rather do 1 quest that takes 2 hours than 10 quests that take 2 hours. Obvioulsy there is a crowd that likes playing games with heavy grouping and epic quests that take full parties. Just take a look at FFXI, its not WoW sub numbers but the people are there. If I were a betting man I'd say that XIV will break at least 1mill and keep it for years just like XI kept 500k for all those years. It will be a bit more solo friendly so the people who can only play 1 or 2 hours can feel like they accomplished something but I have a feeling that it will be mostly a grouped game like XI was. Sometimes I don't always want to party and just want to solo, or maybe I have a half hour before I need to go somewhere and I feel like killing a few things. But for the majority of the time I want to be in a party killing stuff questing and adventuring.
There are really no other game like that besides FFXI. What in 8 years nobody ever thought to make another game that was group based like FFXI. Oh yeah thats right WoW came out a few years later gained popularity and now devs want a piece of the pie instead of making games for a group that is in dire need of something new. Well hopefully FFXIV can show devs that hey you can have the best of both worlds make a game for both the "Hardcore Groupers" and the "Casual Soloers" and we can start getting this genre going forward instead of being stuck in WoW mode for another 5 years.
It might be an old idea,but not done yet, and still a lot of ppl would like it, because f2p sites are getting a lot of ppl now becuase they have a good variety of things for ppl to do. the only thing i think would be the most costly is the super computeter that would be able to work all that without super lag. Imagine a few million ppl doing all the above, in one world lol.
Skipper