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Mixing Magic Damage +Healing into one...
AlysenMinase
Member Posts: 361
Anyone else worried about that? I like diversity. Like FFXI, where you could be a WHM and sub BLM for damage, or SMN for more Magic, etc. But having 2 mage jobs, one for buffing AND debuffing (Conjurer) and the other for damage AND healing (Thaumaturge) isn't looking right for me.
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
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I, for one, like that they can switch it up. A little play on the Trinity. Plus, maybe healers will have a little more to do. I'm sure dedicated healers are always going have their place though.
In LOTRO the runekeeper is a damager OR healer.
The more you use your healing skills the more effective they are. The same with the damage.
I don't know if that is what they will do but it does make sense that (given that all this is ficiton anyway) one that can heal can also damage or one that knows how to buff can also debuff.
Wheel of time by robert jordan had a similiar thing where those who were part of the yellow ajah or the traditonally healing ajah would also know the best ways to apply pain.
it's an interesting concept.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hybrid classes are pretty common and like Sovrath points out, there are mechanics that can be used to prevent such hybrids from becoming overpowered like LotRO's attunement system.
I'll also add though that we don't yet know how the FFXIV class system is going to work. We know that skills from one class can be used to customise another in some way so it's likely that players will specialise by taking synergistic skills from different classes to create their own builds. Interviews with the devs have referred to character 'builds' and their available customisation multiple times now and they've made it very clear that there is a lot more to these 'classes' than simply being a matter of choosing a role and skilling it up.
The result we'll see is either everyone levels multiple classes to assimilate specific skils into a single speciialised build, or everyone will play very unique hybrids and completely turn the holy-trinity concept on its head. I'm hoping it's more of the latter, but I suppose we can only wait and see.
Oh and Sovrath gets a cookie for making a WoT reference.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Okay, maybe I'm just being anal here but I wanted to point out that by looking at the spells on the official website, it looks like Thaumaturge is the one that focuses on buffing and debuffing and Conjurer is damaging and healing.
Also, even though that is what we've seen so far, the official website says thaumaturgy "can be a force of terrifying destruction" and that "Thaumaturges are unparalleled in their powers of destruction eclipsing even the Disciples of War". On top of that, Thaumaturges can heal as well by sacrificing their own HP.
Anyway, my point is that I don't think Conjurer will be as capable of nuking (as far as damage is concerned) as some people think.
Also, don't forget that although you can possibly sub abilities, it appears there will be no subjob, so it makes sense to give the classes a bit more variety. At this point, its probably best not to try to think of this game as being the same as FFXI. Some things will be similar but I am confident it will be a much different game.
But for the record, I would love to see some more DoM classes added. Maybe some type of crowd controller? That doesn't seem to be covered yet. But I don't know if that would open up a whole new can of worms...
If you check out the Archer page it appears to be the CC class, though other classes also possess CC Abilities the Archer has two.
- Kagenui - An Archer skill that allows the player to halt an enemy in their tracks. Fire an arrow at the enemy's silhouette, binding them in place. (Bind)
- Shrieker - An Archer-exclusive attack that can cause the enemy to run in fear from the battle. (Fear)
- Feather Arrow - This skill allows the Archer to fire an arrow at a target, removing their magical-based buffs. (Dispel)
So it looks like Archer gets to be a rather utility class. Would be nice to see a mage with similar abilities, I agree they need more magic users than just two.
There's going to be five of each class type, they just haven't announced the remaining mage classes yet. They've already confirmed that one of the remaining mage classes will be built around supplying MP to party members as it does not regenerate on its own.
Was curious as to where you got the "5 of each type" not disagreeing with you I just have not seen anything that would suggest this, which is to say I would like to see a link so I too can rejoice in the news there will be 3 more mages.
Hehe I don't have an actual quote, it's just common belief that there will be five of each class type. We currently have five disciples of war and five of hand. The current disciples of land don't appear to be sufficient to provide for the current crafting classes so it's assumed that there will be more there. As I said SE have also pointed out in an interview that there is at least one more MP related disciple of magic class to be revealed so I expect the total will be five in each... I admit it's just speculation but it seems to make sense.
This interview also contains a number of remarks hinting at more classes to be revealed. Specifically:
Q: Will there be more classes available to play in the beta test?
A: We’re not sure yet.
Suggests to me that they at least have other classes in the works. And:
Q: In the classes listed so far, some weapons from FFXI, such as the great sword, great scythe, and staff, have not been listed. Will they also be making an appearance in FFXIV? If they do, will some of them be included in certain existing classes, like a great-sword wielding gladiator? Or will they be completely different classes?
A: We can’t tell you when we’ll be presenting them, but you can be sure they’ll be there. We’re going to let you sweat a bit more on whether or not they’re going to be linked to other classes.
This one might just be typical SE teasing but it looks hopeful at least.
(That interview also reveals a lot of nice info, like active blocking and how they really do expect parties to have crafting classes with them to repair equipment.)
EDIT: The recent 'Life in Eorzea' video actually confirms fishing as a third, as of yet unrevealed, disciple of land. The fishing guild icon is on the mini-map at one point. One of the stores can also be seen to stock gardening supplies so that may too be making a return from FFXI (not sure if this one might be connected to the Botanist class, the class picture for that class wields an axe so they seem more tree/wood oriented). Either way there are definately a few more things that SE are planning to unveil with regards to new classes.
So, instead of the trinity we get the oneity.
The game will still have the trinity, it just sounds to me like the actual skills that normally contribute to the three roles may be split over more than three classes.
Considering that the Dengeki interview that I linked in my last post claimed that tactical play would be more important than actual damage output I expect the way the trinity plays out may be slightly different to what we're used to anyway. The actual quote is this:
"Battles are planned to be party-versus-party oriented. Battles are not so much focused on dealing direct damage as they are on finding the right position to attack from for the best attacks. First, you’ll have to find the best distance and method of attack, and then the trick will be to keep that positioning. This is important not just for damage and accuracy, but also for certain attack effects (like the pole arms ability to stop an enemy’s movement) and other things in battle. Also, and this is true especially for the magic classes, but there are many skill and spells that have special types of effect areas (like the conjurers’ circle and the thaumaturges’ cone). Not only that, but the position of the focus of the effect, be it yourself or another target, also becomes important. Furthermore, direction is also a factor. Hitting the enemy’s blind spot, calling an enemy’s attention to a certain direction, and other things will all have an effect on the battle. “Distance,” “range,” and “direction” are the most important themes in battle in FFXIV, and intermediate to advanced players will always want to have these things in mind."
Given this design with multiple enemies running about, and the fact that the support classes also have access to high damage skills (so they'll be drawing both healing and nuking threat), it would make sense for all classes to have at least rudimentary abilities in all three aspects of the trinity; some will just be more specialised in one aspect.
I could have sworn I posted in this topic...
Did my post get removed?
does this mean that archer is gonna sorta be like dps/crowd control?
Because, I had my eyes on this class. I don't mind doing some cc's as well. It makes sense for a dps class to do this, (side job within the pty lol) ... a lot of mmo's I 've played the cc, was a mage type.
Wow, thank you for pointing that out to me. I have pretty much ignored Archer up to this point (mainly because I don't want to have to buy ammo). And just like Soul Surfer said, I assumed that any type of CC class would be a Magic based class.
But your right, it does look like Archer will be the CC class. And now I find myself a lot more interested in playing Archer all of the sudden. They almost seem like a mage class in disguise...
Just one question though, where did you get the names of those abilities? What you call Kagenui and Feather Arrow, the official site calls Shadowbind and Scouring Strike. Just curious
FFXIV Core had the Japanese translation, which in the official translation they must have went with different synonyms.
http://www.ffxivcore.com/wiki/Archer is where I got my links from.
Edit: Just saw the Shadowbind thing, that is funny there is a weapon skill in 11 that does the exact same thing and is named Shadowbind however it is a dagger skill. Amusing.
I think there was also a Ranger ability in FFXI called Shadowbind which did the same thing. I wonder what other similarities there will be...
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