When your game engine is so limited that you can't do most the stuff you want to do with it, it's time to get a new engine. I'm beginning to think that the CO engine was simply a piece of crap from the get-go.
Haha, the games really are quite separate you know? Both games were developed at the same time, CO was started from scratch in early 2007, and STO around the same time. No previous engine assets were carried over from City of Heroes or Marvel Universe, that is what "started from scratch" means.
So, it's time to find a new scapegoat for why STO sucks, CO has very little to do with it. Also, the engine is quite technically impressive for how responsive it is, but that doesn't show up in STO because that game is so slow.
Relax, no one said anything bad about your precious CO. It's engine may serve it well and be sufficient for CO's goals. But the fact is that Cryptic used the same engine for STO to save time and money and this doomed the game. It is clear to all who have half a brain that its not adequate for STO. At least not for how many of us envisioned a star trek MMO.
A great deal of answers provided in that interview goes like: "we are not planning to do this in the imminent future". I believe this is simply because the engine just can't do some things the people are asking for. Basic things i'd say.
Remember, an engine good enough for one game is not necessarily the same for another.
When your game engine is so limited that you can't do most the stuff you want to do with it, it's time to get a new engine. I'm beginning to think that the CO engine was simply a piece of crap from the get-go.
Haha, the games really are quite separate you know? Both games were developed at the same time, CO was started from scratch in early 2007, and STO around the same time. No previous engine assets were carried over from City of Heroes or Marvel Universe, that is what "started from scratch" means.
So, it's time to find a new scapegoat for why STO sucks, CO has very little to do with it. Also, the engine is quite technically impressive for how responsive it is, but that doesn't show up in STO because that game is so slow.
How do you know they aren't using a modified CoH engine, or even a Marvel Universe engine? The word of consumate liar Jack Emmert?
However, I did say that STO uses CO's engine, and as far as I know, it has been that way from the very beginning. One of Cryptic's selling points has always been the engine they were developing for CO, and how they could use it for a wide range of MMOs that Cryptic might wish to develope in the 18-24 month timeframe they also promised.
Let's face it, the CO engine might be OK for a super hero game, but in all I think the CO engine is very lacking. Heavily instanced, limited combat, the things the devs say they "don't have the technology for" indicate to me a very limited and not very powerful engine.
How do you determine how "responsive" an engine is? What does that even mean?
I think the engine for CoH is technically impressive because of how responsive it is. I think the engine for LoTRO is technically impressive because of how responsive it is. I think the engine for WoW is technically impressive because of how responsive it is. I think the engine for FE is technically i mpressive because of how respomsive it is.
For a new release I have never seen so much added so fast,
How is this in anyway a positive thing?...
Your standing on a brand new boat, which is so full of holes that its sinking fast! Your life is in danger... and you praise the builders for plugging the holes ?.... How about making a boat that floats in the first place?..
I watched an episode of House once where there was a guy who impossibly saw good things in even the most terribly bad thing... turned out to be a medical condition. .. Maybe this condition is far more widespread than originally thought.
At least in CO you can fly straight up or down, so if they wanted to, they could allow ships to do that in STO, but no, that doesn't fit their limited, lowest common denominator vision for Star Trek. They purposfully disallow 3D space on purpose.
Then they try to say they are fans of Star Trek, laughable.
"Let's make a game with space combat, but artificially hamper movement and make it a PITA to go up or down".
Amatures.
Cryptic is a Mickey Mouse operation trying to compete with the professional studios.
"The players of our game want it to feel like Star Trek! Who'd have thought that? Quick! Add some Star Trek like stuff!
lol
they pandered to the wrong group
WOW has a huge budget- trying to start an mmo to match or emulate that is stupid
the series had a few things-
captains in love with thier ship
exploration and wierd sci fi stories
members of the crew as a huge part of the storyline
so......they have it that you switch ships all the time
......you get not to be a captain- but an Admiral! (you know- like kirk did not want)
.....the wieird original stories are ..."debris on planet- no life, click 4 glowing things and leave
the kicker is they could have made a better game- with less stuff- and using less money
hey, Cryptic! View Screen and voice - (again on every incarnation of the show) - and sandbox
are you stupid?
Exactly, When I was reading that I cringed imagining the dev responding honestly, "Oh you guys wanted to be reminded of Star Trek while playing this? We'll see what we can do at some point to make that happen." Very painful....
Fun,Community,Graphics,immersion. Is that so hard?
OPG: When are you going to add enough content to the game so people feel like they are playing a complete product, and not feel like you are screwing them over?
Cryptic: This is an area we definitely want to explore as time goes on. It’s just a matter of getting that technology created and working, and finding ways to make things fun... It’s not something we have planned yet, though.
O.K. so I was bored and made t hings up and quoted out of context etc etc... at least I had fun doing it. :-)
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
OPG asked some good questions and most of the answers were:
" ..that's something we would like to do a little further down the road. We have to fix the game first..."
This article is a perfect illustration of why I left STO, these guys not only released a bare bones game that can usually produce fifteen minutes of fun in an hour they also have absolutely no clue what they can possibly do to make it fun. Is it the terrible game engine that doesn't allow them to have interesting features? Or is it truly the fact that Jack and co don't understand that no one wants to sub to an mmo made like a throwaway arcade game?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
This article is a perfect illustration of why I left STO, these guys not only released a bare bones game that can usually produce fifteen minutes of fun in an hour they also have absolutely no clue what they can possibly do to make it fun. Is it the terrible game engine that doesn't allow them to have interesting features? Or is it truly the fact that Jack and co don't understand that no one wants to sub to an mmo made like a throwaway arcade game?
I am not sure, let's ask Jack and company. <pause>
They're nodding and saying it's something they would like to look into for the future. Please keep sending them money in the mean time so you don't hurt any feelings.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
When your game engine is so limited that you can't do most the stuff you want to do with it, it's time to get a new engine. I'm beginning to think that the CO engine was simply a piece of crap from the get-go.
Haha, the games really are quite separate you know? Both games were developed at the same time, CO was started from scratch in early 2007, and STO around the same time. No previous engine assets were carried over from City of Heroes or Marvel Universe, that is what "started from scratch" means.
So, it's time to find a new scapegoat for why STO sucks, CO has very little to do with it. Also, the engine is quite technically impressive for how responsive it is, but that doesn't show up in STO because that game is so slow.
Zinc has stated in interviews even before launch that the engine is an updated version of the original COH engine.
When your game engine is so limited that you can't do most the stuff you want to do with it, it's time to get a new engine. I'm beginning to think that the CO engine was simply a piece of crap from the get-go.
Haha, the games really are quite separate you know? Both games were developed at the same time, CO was started from scratch in early 2007, and STO around the same time. No previous engine assets were carried over from City of Heroes or Marvel Universe, that is what "started from scratch" means.
So, it's time to find a new scapegoat for why STO sucks, CO has very little to do with it. Also, the engine is quite technically impressive for how responsive it is, but that doesn't show up in STO because that game is so slow.
Zinc has stated in interviews even before launch that the engine is an updated version of the original COH engine.
Indeed it is! Not only have several people from Cryptic stated this in interviews, but the quoted statement that they were both developed at the same time is also not entirely true; while there was some overlap, CO was in development longer (and before) STO was. The engine they used for CO ( it was not the one used for CoH/CoV) was more than likely what was going to be used for the Marvel MMO Cryptic was working on before Marvel yanked the rights away from Cryptic. Having seen both CO and STO, I can fully understand why Marvel decided having Cryptic make their MMO was not in their best interests.
I find it ironic that someone named Championsfan can't notice that the same core engine was used for both games, with a Star Trek skin tossed on.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
OPG: When are you going to add enough content to the game so people feel like they are playing a complete product, and not feel like you are screwing them over?
Cryptic: This is an area we definitely want to explore as time goes on. It’s just a matter of getting that technology created and working, and finding ways to make things fun... It’s not something we have planned yet, though.
O.K. so I was bored and made t hings up and quoted out of context etc etc... at least I had fun doing it. :-)
Cryptic does it all the time, so it's perfectly OK!
At least in CO you can fly straight up or down, so if they wanted to, they could allow ships to do that in STO, but no, that doesn't fit their limited, lowest common denominator vision for Star Trek. They purposfully disallow 3D space on purpose.
Then they try to say they are fans of Star Trek, laughable.
"Let's make a game with space combat, but artificially hamper movement and make it a PITA to go up or down".
Amatures.
Cryptic is a Mickey Mouse operation trying to compete with the professional studios.
It's becoming clearer now what Cryptic is doing. They're building their empire with these quick turn around games. This leads me to believe their next MMO will be more complete to a certain degree. STO and CO live teams will be pulled to work on the next MMO while they hire more devs from Atari money. It's been stated by Cryptic that they happend upon the Star Trek IP and they knew full well their engine wasn't designed for the type of game STO called for. That's why we got CO in space with some restrictions to make it more Trek like sort of. STO is mearly a stepping stone to build up their resources. Future games will be more suited to their engine which I believe is the only thing they are putting money back into.
As far as the creativity department goes I can't comment much on that part. I guess that is why they promoted Bill and with more resources he could do a better job?
Too bad they crapped all over STO in the process and the people. These guys are smarter than lead to believe imo. Oh well live and learn. 2 year dev cycles will be exactly that but will get slightly better with each new release as they obtain more resources while refining their engine.
It's becoming clearer now what Cryptic is doing. They're building their empire with these quick turn around games. This leads me to believe their next MMO will be more complete to a certain degree. STO and CO live teams will be pulled to work on the next MMO while they hire more devs from Atari money.
This reminds me of the age-old question, "Has your girlfriend figured out you love her so you can stop beating her?"
At least in CO you can fly straight up or down, so if they wanted to, they could allow ships to do that in STO, but no, that doesn't fit their limited, lowest common denominator vision for Star Trek. They purposfully disallow 3D space on purpose.
Then they try to say they are fans of Star Trek, laughable.
"Let's make a game with space combat, but artificially hamper movement and make it a PITA to go up or down".
Amatures.
Cryptic is a Mickey Mouse operation trying to compete with the professional studios.
It's becoming clearer now what Cryptic is doing. They're building their empire with these quick turn around games. This leads me to believe their next MMO will be more complete to a certain degree. STO and CO live teams will be pulled to work on the next MMO while they hire more devs from Atari money. It's been stated by Cryptic that they happend upon the Star Trek IP and they knew full well their engine wasn't designed for the type of game STO called for. That's why we got CO in space with some restrictions to make it more Trek like sort of. STO is mearly a stepping stone to build up their resources. Future games will be more suited to their engine which I believe is the only thing they are putting money back into.
As far as the creativity department goes I can't comment much on that part. I guess that is why they promoted Bill and with more resources he could do a better job?
Too bad they crapped all over STO in the process and the people. These guys are smarter than lead to believe imo. Oh well live and learn. 2 year dev cycles will be exactly that but will get slightly better with each new release as they obtain more resources while refining their engine.
If that's really their bussiness plan it's pretty fail.
First of all the other mmo they were working on when they started CO looks like a Cthulu mmo. There's no way that IP would have made them more money then an STO one. The rumors of a NWN license didn't begin till after they started STO so it couldn't have been NWN.
Then there's how they completly destroyed all their credibilty with these two abominations. Their next game might be diamonds wrapped in gold but who will believe it's diamonds wrapped in gold when all they've shown us so far is some kernels of corn wrapped in poo floting in your toilet.
At least in CO you can fly straight up or down, so if they wanted to, they could allow ships to do that in STO, but no, that doesn't fit their limited, lowest common denominator vision for Star Trek. They purposfully disallow 3D space on purpose.
Then they try to say they are fans of Star Trek, laughable.
"Let's make a game with space combat, but artificially hamper movement and make it a PITA to go up or down".
Amatures.
Cryptic is a Mickey Mouse operation trying to compete with the professional studios.
It's becoming clearer now what Cryptic is doing. They're building their empire with these quick turn around games. This leads me to believe their next MMO will be more complete to a certain degree. STO and CO live teams will be pulled to work on the next MMO while they hire more devs from Atari money. It's been stated by Cryptic that they happend upon the Star Trek IP and they knew full well their engine wasn't designed for the type of game STO called for. That's why we got CO in space with some restrictions to make it more Trek like sort of. STO is mearly a stepping stone to build up their resources. Future games will be more suited to their engine which I believe is the only thing they are putting money back into.
As far as the creativity department goes I can't comment much on that part. I guess that is why they promoted Bill and with more resources he could do a better job?
Too bad they crapped all over STO in the process and the people. These guys are smarter than lead to believe imo. Oh well live and learn. 2 year dev cycles will be exactly that but will get slightly better with each new release as they obtain more resources while refining their engine.
If that's really their bussiness plan it's pretty fail.
First of all the other mmo they were working on when they started CO looks like a Cthulu mmo. There's no way that IP would have made them more money then an STO one. The rumors of a NWN license didn't begin till after they started STO so it couldn't have been NWN.
Then there's how they completly destroyed all their credibilty with these two abominations. Their next game might be diamonds wrapped in gold but who will believe it's diamonds wrapped in gold when all they've shown us so far is some kernels of corn wrapped in poo floting in your toilet.
They're already factoring people like us in for their numbers on the next MMO. It will get off to a slow start. If it is indeed noticably better the reviews will reflect it and word will spread. They will even rope back some Cryptic fans for a couple of months. Cryptic/Atari will meet their expectations and all will be well.
What are you doing or adding to this bare bones of a joke that you are passing off as Star Trek?
Most of what people want we won't build because it would take too much time and what we can add today we will wait and add in a future update, maybe. In the end, no one will care by the time we figure it all out.
Exactly...
It's like I told a Guild Mate a while back when I decided not to Play STO any longer...All they are going to do is try to build off of something that is already basically a borefest...It may be more, but it's the same boring more as the boring more that led up to it...The Game is never going to be what I expected it to be as a Star Trek Game...It was not set up "to boldly go" from day #1...So anyone who thinks they are going to deviate from that original formula is really just kidding themselves...
OPG asked some good questions and most of the answers were:
" ..that's something we would like to do a little further down the road. We have to fix the game first..."
This article is a perfect illustration of why I left STO, these guys not only released a bare bones game that can usually produce fifteen minutes of fun in an hour they also have absolutely no clue what they can possibly do to make it fun. Is it the terrible game engine that doesn't allow them to have interesting features? Or is it truly the fact that Jack and co don't understand that no one wants to sub to an mmo made like a throwaway arcade game?
This game is what McDonalds would be if it went vegan.
Comments
Relax, no one said anything bad about your precious CO. It's engine may serve it well and be sufficient for CO's goals. But the fact is that Cryptic used the same engine for STO to save time and money and this doomed the game. It is clear to all who have half a brain that its not adequate for STO. At least not for how many of us envisioned a star trek MMO.
A great deal of answers provided in that interview goes like: "we are not planning to do this in the imminent future". I believe this is simply because the engine just can't do some things the people are asking for. Basic things i'd say.
Remember, an engine good enough for one game is not necessarily the same for another.
How do you know they aren't using a modified CoH engine, or even a Marvel Universe engine? The word of consumate liar Jack Emmert?
However, I did say that STO uses CO's engine, and as far as I know, it has been that way from the very beginning. One of Cryptic's selling points has always been the engine they were developing for CO, and how they could use it for a wide range of MMOs that Cryptic might wish to develope in the 18-24 month timeframe they also promised.
Let's face it, the CO engine might be OK for a super hero game, but in all I think the CO engine is very lacking. Heavily instanced, limited combat, the things the devs say they "don't have the technology for" indicate to me a very limited and not very powerful engine.
How do you determine how "responsive" an engine is? What does that even mean?
I think the engine for CoH is technically impressive because of how responsive it is. I think the engine for LoTRO is technically impressive because of how responsive it is. I think the engine for WoW is technically impressive because of how responsive it is. I think the engine for FE is technically i mpressive because of how respomsive it is.
How is this in anyway a positive thing?...
Your standing on a brand new boat, which is so full of holes that its sinking fast! Your life is in danger... and you praise the builders for plugging the holes ?.... How about making a boat that floats in the first place?..
I watched an episode of House once where there was a guy who impossibly saw good things in even the most terribly bad thing... turned out to be a medical condition. .. Maybe this condition is far more widespread than originally thought.
At least in CO you can fly straight up or down, so if they wanted to, they could allow ships to do that in STO, but no, that doesn't fit their limited, lowest common denominator vision for Star Trek. They purposfully disallow 3D space on purpose.
Then they try to say they are fans of Star Trek, laughable.
"Let's make a game with space combat, but artificially hamper movement and make it a PITA to go up or down".
Amatures.
Cryptic is a Mickey Mouse operation trying to compete with the professional studios.
Exactly, When I was reading that I cringed imagining the dev responding honestly, "Oh you guys wanted to be reminded of Star Trek while playing this? We'll see what we can do at some point to make that happen." Very painful....
Fun,Community,Graphics,immersion. Is that so hard?
The game is garbage, the engine is garbage, the developer is garbage, and you expect a ruby from a turd?
OPG: When are you going to add enough content to the game so people feel like they are playing a complete product, and not feel like you are screwing them over?
Cryptic: This is an area we definitely want to explore as time goes on. It’s just a matter of getting that technology created and working, and finding ways to make things fun... It’s not something we have planned yet, though.
O.K. so I was bored and made t hings up and quoted out of context etc etc... at least I had fun doing it. :-)
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
This article is a perfect illustration of why I left STO, these guys not only released a bare bones game that can usually produce fifteen minutes of fun in an hour they also have absolutely no clue what they can possibly do to make it fun. Is it the terrible game engine that doesn't allow them to have interesting features? Or is it truly the fact that Jack and co don't understand that no one wants to sub to an mmo made like a throwaway arcade game?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I am not sure, let's ask Jack and company. <pause>
They're nodding and saying it's something they would like to look into for the future. Please keep sending them money in the mean time so you don't hurt any feelings.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Zinc has stated in interviews even before launch that the engine is an updated version of the original COH engine.
Indeed it is! Not only have several people from Cryptic stated this in interviews, but the quoted statement that they were both developed at the same time is also not entirely true; while there was some overlap, CO was in development longer (and before) STO was. The engine they used for CO ( it was not the one used for CoH/CoV) was more than likely what was going to be used for the Marvel MMO Cryptic was working on before Marvel yanked the rights away from Cryptic. Having seen both CO and STO, I can fully understand why Marvel decided having Cryptic make their MMO was not in their best interests.
I find it ironic that someone named Championsfan can't notice that the same core engine was used for both games, with a Star Trek skin tossed on.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Cryptic does it all the time, so it's perfectly OK!
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
It's becoming clearer now what Cryptic is doing. They're building their empire with these quick turn around games. This leads me to believe their next MMO will be more complete to a certain degree. STO and CO live teams will be pulled to work on the next MMO while they hire more devs from Atari money. It's been stated by Cryptic that they happend upon the Star Trek IP and they knew full well their engine wasn't designed for the type of game STO called for. That's why we got CO in space with some restrictions to make it more Trek like sort of. STO is mearly a stepping stone to build up their resources. Future games will be more suited to their engine which I believe is the only thing they are putting money back into.
As far as the creativity department goes I can't comment much on that part. I guess that is why they promoted Bill and with more resources he could do a better job?
Too bad they crapped all over STO in the process and the people. These guys are smarter than lead to believe imo. Oh well live and learn. 2 year dev cycles will be exactly that but will get slightly better with each new release as they obtain more resources while refining their engine.
This reminds me of the age-old question, "Has your girlfriend figured out you love her so you can stop beating her?"
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
If that's really their bussiness plan it's pretty fail.
First of all the other mmo they were working on when they started CO looks like a Cthulu mmo. There's no way that IP would have made them more money then an STO one. The rumors of a NWN license didn't begin till after they started STO so it couldn't have been NWN.
Then there's how they completly destroyed all their credibilty with these two abominations. Their next game might be diamonds wrapped in gold but who will believe it's diamonds wrapped in gold when all they've shown us so far is some kernels of corn wrapped in poo floting in your toilet.
They're already factoring people like us in for their numbers on the next MMO. It will get off to a slow start. If it is indeed noticably better the reviews will reflect it and word will spread. They will even rope back some Cryptic fans for a couple of months. Cryptic/Atari will meet their expectations and all will be well.
Exactly...
It's like I told a Guild Mate a while back when I decided not to Play STO any longer...All they are going to do is try to build off of something that is already basically a borefest...It may be more, but it's the same boring more as the boring more that led up to it...The Game is never going to be what I expected it to be as a Star Trek Game...It was not set up "to boldly go" from day #1...So anyone who thinks they are going to deviate from that original formula is really just kidding themselves...
Biggest MMO cash grab to date...
This game is what McDonalds would be if it went vegan.
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!