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Will this be Open World or Instanced Storyline?
pencilrick
Member Posts: 1,550
Wondering if this game will be an open world for players to freely explore and bump into one another, or will it be some heavily instanced storyline?
Comments
Honestly, if it worked like the last one it would be pretty cool. Obviously the actual story bits are going to need to be instanced due to heavy scripting, but integrating it with some outdoor elements and basically keeping the game world without just making it a chatroom with doors would remain interesting.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
I hope it is an open world. As an experienced MMO gamer, I need more immersion that what storyline gameplay offers. Real-time player base + opportunities = the best "story" any game world can offer anyway.
I want to be a free-spiriting adventurer in a wide open, dangerous, and mysterious game world.
I hope it does both... I take my case as Aion:
The non-instanced 'dungeons' or elite villages in Aion really annoyed me. There were always people pulling mobs over our healers, wiping our group and forcing us to return to the begining because of respawns. TBH, most group content should be instanced because of the society factor; you'll always have immature players. Using instances, you can distance yourself from the majority of the community and explore with the people you've chosen to grouped with.
But I do also enjoy group quests where you're required to take down a boss by forming a group, and this said boss roams around in what ever village he resides in. The fun part about these quests is not that because of the 'open world' concept, but rather that you can set the difficulty of the encounter by selecting how many/who you go with.
A good game will balance between the two, I personally enjoy instanced content more because of the increase in the number of immature players I've encountered.
I can see instanced dungeons, but why on earth would you want to instance a village or outdoor zone? The presence of other players, whether they be cooperative, neutral, or occasionally obnoxious, is part of the atmosphere and immersion. It is why MMO's are "massively multiplayer."
I truly think this trend towards isolated, linear, uninterrupted gameplay is a negative that brings many MMO's down. I think you are wrong when you say a "good game will balance the two (instancing and open world)". A good game will minimize instancing as much as possible.
From the latest Famitsu translation, it seems that they're shooting for Open World and Instances for cutscenes and some storylines. Didn't go too much into detalis, but I think that most of the gameplay will happen off instanced areas, so I wouldn't worry too much bout it
Good news indeed. I'm looking for FF XIV to be similar to Ultima Online. Not a game I played much, but one which was based upon open world and skills, rather than levels.
I wish this game would come out.
I played UO from 1999 to 2003 (I did stop in that time a few months for Dark age of Camelot)
I loved the open world of UO. I could spent hours to walk around the land, in search for good player vendors, and also looking how people decorated their houses. I also had my own house, it was still very popullated back then and it was difficult to get a house, so I did a few idle house hunts, and actually placed a house. There were like 10 people around who tried to place a house, I was really lucky.
You really had a place you could call home. At the europ server we even had some player made cities that were roleplayed. And we also had some people who orginized auctions in their house. Then everyone would sit on a chair and they would show a item (lock it down) and then everyone could bid. I got some nice plants that way.
Also there were some player made activities, like shows and sport events, they were so creative and funny.
Also I could stand at Brittain bank in trammel and listen for hours to all the players, a good way to know what was going on in the world, and also funny sometimes. The days when there were still people playing...
I had a peace tamer, which I played most. But I also loved my crafter, mage, swordman, and treasurehunter.
My crafter never killed a single thing, It seems FFXIV will also support crafter only people, which is great in my opinion, still I wish there was a limit in how many crafts you can learn, so that you always need other players.
Ahh the good old days, while the FFXI community was great, and overall better then the UO community, some UO people were really creative and social, they really created their own world.
I want such a world again, a world that lives, were you can solo and group, and do whatever you like and can have hours of fun without killing 1 thing.
Anyway exp is still needed for physical levels in FFXIV, I heard. I was a little sad about it, but I will first see how it works out.
And I doubt we get the freedom of UO with skills, UO was great at it, but FFXIV seem to want to have a little control over what players can play. Which is sad, because players will find out the best templates, if you let them discover it on their own, some people want impossible combination, just for the fun and difficult of it.
Anyway, I do love the story lines of the missions and subjob quests in FFXI, I want that back, I loved the cutscenes, it was the first MMORPG I actually liked to follow the story, you really felt a part of it. Instanced places are good for storyline quests, devolpers have better control over an instanced area, so the quest can be fun to play.
Also I like the feeling to be all alone with my party , it really creates the adventure feeling for me. But not to many instances, it should be a small part, to create a certain setting for the story.
Well, if they do it like FFXI did it, this is how it's going to play:
The game itself will be open world, where people can explore the huge areas and do quests and missions with each other.
The storyline portions of the game, however, will feature fights that take place in the open world, areas that are open world yet you need to progress the storyline up to certain point to "unlock" said area, and (mostly) instanced battle "events" where you fight some bigger boss in a battleground.
Since these battles will only happen in a small area and compared to rest of the missions they're not that numerous, we can expect that the majority of the story will take place in the open world, not in an instance.
Instanced maps like an attack on a village allow the devs to develop the story in unique ways... WoW had instancing in zones like the wrath gate for example (WoW did this in a unique way, but its still instancing their zones). You cant have an apic battle in the open world while lowbies are running around, or people who have already completed the quest. It just doesn't fit in with everyone's character's world. Its the flaw of the open world, and thats why its necessary to have instanced zones.
Nah, 'tis possible. Doesn't really matter that much. But when you want really epic shit to happen, making an instanced battlefield up in the clouds/space or whatever provides a much more epic feeling.
How about having epic stuff happen in the world for all to see? I remember travelling through some Velious zone back in EQ, when I saw 60 giants lined up in front of a small village like they were going to move out and attack. Was very cool. Not sure who/what triggered it, but I realized instantly this was not a normal situation.
Now, had the above been "instanced" for the group that set it off, then only five people or so would experience it and the event would be meaningless to everyone else.
Bottom line: Sometimes it adds to the fun to have other folks caught up in events. Just imagine if a raid dragon was messed with enough times that it got mad and flew down to the noobie areas, torching everyone and everything. Would be very cool to see the low levels scatter in fear, hehe.
MMO's are about shared experiences, IMO. Instancing is really best for isolated off-line singler player-type gameplay.
Well I mean there will be storyline fights happen in an open area, but those rarely are as epic as in a zone designed for such encounter.
However, if we're talking about that kind of story, that's very possible...
In FFXI, there was an event called "Besieged" where hordes of beastmen (50~100+) infiltrated a city and tried to steal an Astral Candescence granting them power over other races. The battle happened exactly as you described the Velious zone, although the city in question was large and not some small village.
They made it even better later with the "Campaign" system where these type of things happened more regularly, and not just in one set area but out in the world as well.
But really, when talking about Storyline that's not something I'd call story, but I guess it can be seen as such. There was definitely a reason for the beastmen to do what they did though, so it was based on lore and background of the Empire in question.
So, I don't think you have to worry about that. Anyway- instances also work for a smaller scale, co-op experience. That kind of keeps the "multiplayer" part of MMO present even if the "massive" is missing, so it's not like it only fits off-line single player games. As long as we're still interacting with other people, I think it's alright to be used in an MMO.
I think it will be more plot-orientated than you are suggesting and more solo friendly. There will also be significant instancing and cut-scenes used to make the game more immersive, and less of the scrum of players that tends to occur in open world sandboxes after launch. The battle, Guildleves, and Free growth system will be major features, and will encourage grouping, but not make it impossible to solo either for most of your game time. The world will be large though, and instancing will prevent it getting cramped at key game spots. Great graphics will enhance the immersion, along with the cut scenes. If you don't like the current generation of Japanese RPGs that are coming out then this mmo may not be for you. I do though think it will be blast.
But thats exactly the problem, a high level dragon reaking havoc in a lowbie zone is inconventient to those lowbies. The pages of QQ would fill the forums and the 'I'll quit' threats will start, I mean come on, there are 100 page threads about servers being down every major patch for WoW. How do you think people will handle their playing experience ruined just because their not high level?
I think you're putting yourself in the shoes of the high level player right now... If you were constantly dying to a threat you could not deal with and it stopped the progression of your storyline, you wouldn't be quite as content. Because thats what you're developing, the story of your character, not the world he/she inhabits.
When people talk about WoW, they dont say "Yea, yogg-saron was defeated by the Champions of the Horde." They say "Yea we downed him."
Why do people assume that the way WoW does things is the way everything has to be done?
In EQ2 there were a large number of world spawn bosses required for high level quests that only spawned in low level areas. There were a number of world events that also did similar things, such as the dragon invasion during the KoS launch event. As a low level player I was never 'inconvenienced' by this, I just avoided getting killed, and it made for more variety in gameplay as you couldn't always guarantee that your group could tackle everything ahead of you. It made things more fun because I didn't always know what to expect (the lack of which is what makes WoW so stale and boring). It was also pretty awesome to see high level players fighting amongst and alongside the lower levels.
As for the bit in red, that's another opinionated issue that divides the old and new gaming communities. I'd rather my progress in an MMO develop the world rather than some clearly false personal storyline that everyone shares (which really ruins the immersion to me). Would you rather be a hero who has achieved identical things to everyone else, or a hero that achieved something with everyone else?
To the OP though; FFXI had a good mix of the two, with major encounters instanced but the majority of storyline content out in the open world. I expect FFXIV to be similar.
I feel that problem could be easily solved if:
1) It only appears in lowbie areas when triggered (by obtaing the "Pearl of Dragon Tears from Mount Wyziwyg" which would be a very hard quest in a high level area for example)
2) If it only attacks the party that triggered it and
3) If you can't target it or damage it if you are not in the party that triggered / spawned it and if you can't heal or buff the party if you are not in it. Maybe some kind of force field appears? (For effect, to explain why non party members can't interfere... unless this is how all battles work in FFXIV which I think should be the case to avoid powerleveling and other issues.)
Not saying all boss fights should be like this but it would be cool if once in a while you were going on your path that you've taken 100 times in a lowbie area but out of the blue you see a high level group fighting an epic King Behomoth or something. It would be fun for the lowbies to watch and I think it would be fun for the party to have an audience.
Edit: You may ask "Well, who would get to claim the item? What if the person takes it and leaves the party?" My design would be everyone gets the no-drop / exclusive item which allows them to battle the mob (I'm cool either way if it is a one time or unlimited use). That way, hopefully the party that got the item would go straight to the spawn point near the lowbie area. But if the party breaks up, you can hold onto your item and fight the boss later when you find others who have done that portion of the quest.
This is a bit off topic perhaps, but I really don't want to start a new thread on this, has anyone heard of what the guild system is going to be like? Is it going to be organised as it was in Final Fantasy XI with loosely formed linkshells that people jumped back and forth from as it suited their whims, or is it going to formal guilds aka LotRO or WoW? Personally I didn't like the linkshell system very much, as most people I knew had two or three, which made it harder to keep in contact with them.
But the issue with open world content is that you dont feel as if you're the hero by modern standards.
In an open world game not everyone is involved directly in the saving of the world, and those that aren't (e.i. the majority) will not feel heroic.
People who are just leveling up, people who were not part of your guild/alliance, people who died and respawned and did not see the event end. All of these people will just feel disappointed. Then you have the issue of people who want to aid the monsters. Priests that heal the monsters (Ragnarok Online) and want to see you die? Would they not also get the same worldly status as a 'hero' once the issue is resolved? Why wouldn't they? They're in-game characters just as yourself, and as a result get the same ammount of 'heroism' which you would get. I suppose if you really want to talk about your character being a hero in an open world game, it would have to be an internal psychological affect (knowing you did something good) rather than being entitled as a hero. But its the same as donating to a charity... do you feel like a hero? No, but you feel good...
If you're playing a game, a fantasy, you dont want to be some commoner, you want to be the bloody hero. If i wasn't part of the minorty that saved the world, I'd be pretty disappointed... This is why it is so difficult to be immersed into an open world... you'll have those that really did save the world, but they're a minority. In instanced zones, everyone gets to be part of that minority, just in their own little instance.
Off topic: Why do people sound the alarm when they see the word "WoW"? No other game seems to have captured this quite as well, its as if someone mentioned a woman who happened to be your ex girl friend, why get all worked up about it? I no longer play but can admit it was a good game.
i don't care if it is heavely Instanced hell hole or Instance less universe. Aslong as i have fun it is all good. Instancing is not too bad in some places. and No instancing anywhere is unbareable. So i'am hoping FF has mix of both
From http://www.ffxivcore.com/
Q. Instanced areas were used everywhere (they are automatically created during things like cut scenes). Why was this done?
A. We wanted to give players the freedom to play when they want to play instead of having to wait in line. This concept also lead us to create guildleves. The first thing we decided was to try to use instances as often as we could.
Since the scenario planner, Ms. Satou, came up with the idea of “reliving the past,” we thought this would also go well with instanced areas and went ahead with the idea from there. Personally, I like the concept which also appears in FFXI, that we’re all in the same world but no one sees it the same way. The only problem is, in FFXI, you only get that feeling during the cut scenes, and that was a little disappointing. We felt that instances would make up for this really well. Finally, one of the main concepts of the FF series is that each new numbered game needs to produce a new feel, like an entirely new “grammar.” We’re hoping to achieve that through instances.
I know my responses have gone pretty off-topic but I really get irritated with the whole 'everyone's a hero' thing. It doesn't work and leads to burnout a hell of a lot quicker.
In response to the "we're using instancing everywhere" interview quote that was just linked: I'm not entirely sure how literally we can take that. SE has a pretty loose defintion of instancing, making a point of having instanced cutscenes which, as far as I'm aware, couldn't be done any other way. Just take that with a pinch of salt.
I agree with you. I much more valued my early EQ characters who started out very weak, with ragged armor and wimpy weapons, and to brave a harsh unforgiving fantasy world. Was great fun, and made any accomplishments seem worthy.
The WOW crowd is just too weened on the entitlement feeling. Because everyone is a hero, no one will ever know what it feels like to "become" a hero.
(And to answer some of the other earlier threads, what is the problem with someone else occasionally interfering with your gameplay or having some impact on you? Oh-My-Gosh. Someone tagged the Orc that Little Jimmy was trying to pull and now Little Jimmy doesn't feel like such a hero anymore.
C'mon, does everything have to be sanitized, isolated, instanced and spoonfed? Your "practically" offline instanced heroics have meant nothing. NOTHING to the rest of the community. The presence of others in the gameworld is the "MM" part of "MMORPG". If it doesn't happen in the same "world" as the rest of the game community, it didn't happen. Instances are about stuff that doesn't happen, as far as the rest of your server is concerned.
I could say the same thing about "phasing".)
It is going to be VERY instanced and probably make little use of the seamless world.This is because the game has a distinct direction for linear GuildLEves,that you simply Warp nearby.FFXI could have made great use for the seamless world,FFXIV seems to be making little use of it,but we will have to wait and see.I think it depends on weather there is any quests outside of Leves,if not,then there won't be any reason to explore,grab your Leve,finish it Aether/Warp rinse repeat.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It's not going to work exactly like that though.
Even if you get a leve from town, you still have to walk to the Aetheryte nearest to the objective. Those with little time to play can warp there (as long as they've walked there at least once), but those with more playtime can't abuse the warp feature by only traveling using it.
The leve itself happens in the open world, only thing that's instanced are the monsters which can only be seen by the people doing the leve, which prevents stealing (intended or unintended).
I want to bring up a big point however: You can explore for the sake of exploring. If there were "rewards" for exploring, you wouldn't be exploring for the sake of exploring, simply for the reward you get. It becomes another chase of carrot on a stick the more you reward players for doing something. It should be done just for the sake of it.
But there are "normal" quests outside of Leves, so that way you will be able to "explore" the areas.
The point is you "can become" a hero. Starting as "the hero that is going to save the world" is trite and meaningless. There is much more of a sense of fulfilment in taking a new character and building him or her into a hero through courage and superior gameplay. And heroes can be local. You can be the dude that saved some low level party from wiping just as you happened along.
But being "chosen as The Hero (that saves the world)" is lame and smacks of Harry Potterness.
There are no heroes in WOW, for example, just chumps parading around in welfare epics.