Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
EQII Too Carebear
TheCapN
Member Posts: 36
in Everquest II
Where's the PVP?
I hope SOE doesn't expect everybody to spend their endgame killing monsters, I mean correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what you do TO get to the endgame?
I heard about this "Guild Competition" thing for the endgame. Well it seems a little lame as you can't go out and kill that competing guild. I hope this "competition" isn't something like "I can kill x amount more of y monster!"
PvP is really the only thing holding me back from EQII. I really don't see why they didn't include it, or at least implement a PvP server. 
RABBLE RABBLE
-----------------------------------------
The Devil is in the details.
Comments
Personally I think PvP is over-rated in MMORPGs, especially MMORPGs that aren't designed with PvP as the main focus(WoW, EQLive, etc.).
Now don't get me wrong, I love PvP in FPS, racing, and some other games, but not MMORPGs. It takes minimal skill to compete in PvP, and *usually* whoever wins is whichever side has more/better-equipped players.
In all MMORPGs the main focus is to advance your character. You don't really advance your character in PvP, unless it is a game like Lineage 2 where you can loot other players. It's just sort of like a mini-game IMO.
I'd love to see some sort of PvP in EQII also, but it certainly isn't something that is keeping me awy from the game.
On another note, PvP can also lead to balancing issues. Some classes may be fine in PvE, but in PvP they own. So.. usually the class will get nerfed, and will now be balanced in PvP, but gimped in PvE.
I thought it would bother me, but I haven't even thought about it once during my gameplay. I have much more to see and do, but my experience thus far has been positive.
I don't think the developers should do any rebalancing at all on a PvP server. You're never going to get the classes exactly balanced any way. Every player has access to the same classes in the game, so what's the point? Anyone can choose to be any character they want, why do you need them to be exactly equal in PvP? Everyone knows a cleric is a healer and will not be able to compete with a Necromancer one on one. He's still a cleric though, and lots of players are still going to want to group with him. Why do some people hold the position that just because you are on a PvP servers suddenly classes need to get "balanced" for PvP?
I think the real problem results from the "balancing". Characters get nerfed and players get mad. Leave em alone and let players do what they want to do: let them make their own decisions regarding whether they want a powerful PvP class on a PvP server or a support class that is not a PvP powerhouse. By the way: let's say 90% of the population chose to be a Necromancer because it is the most "powerful" in PvP. Just imagine the demand for gouping with enchanters and clerics, eh? Which class is the most WANTED in that scenario?
I want PvP because its more competitive and adds another dimension to the game. That does not necessarily mean that all classes need to be equal in PvP. After all, not all classes are equal in soloing or battling undead. Why do they need to be equal in PvP?
Just because a game doesn't have PvP does not make it carebear. Infact if it was care bear we would be trying to convince the gnolls to join us instead of trying to merciless erradicate them. It especially isn't carebear when you finish a quest that grants you access to a zone and you go there thinking well the quest was blue so the area must be a total spush over in a group. WRONG..i mean ever had a giant (after we beat off a horde of gnoll casters and champions) come thundering down at you target your healers that hadn't even done a thing to gain aggro and suddenly eat your entire group to death? I mean this was an unexpected pop too, because Giants aren't usually found in Antonica!
Sometimes I wonder if its comments like this guy's that are really only posted to fire people up you know, totally baseless opinions. I mean he's not even Played the game yet "its to carebear" ever thought that maybe there's more than one challenge in life besides killing off some helpless noob.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
That's OK by me, I am not all that much into PvP
.
________________________________
Fuego
Level 21 Gnomish Mage
Casador
Level 19 Night Elf Hunter
Silvermoon server
____________________________
Problem I've had with PvP is that in my experience there's very little of it that's done against evenly matched opponents. More often it was the level 65 necro ganking newbie halflings because he had half an hour to kill before his guild raid.
If they wanted to do PvP well, they'd remove any ability to con PCs and offer enough variety of equipment and clothing and abilities that you really didn't know how much of a threat anyone else was unless you watched them for awhile. Sure, if a guy's naked and taking five minutes to kill a rat in the newbie garden, he's easy prey, but if you come across a cloaked figure in the wild, you take your chances.
Everybody knows that to be "continually fun" an MMORPG "has to have PvP"...
(If you do not get the reference, do not flame... Just do a search on Kriminal99)
--------------------------------------------
33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
Killer 100%
Achiever 53%
Explorer 33%
Socializer 13%
--------------------------------------------
I couldnt disagree more, EQ2 does not need PvP there is a great community forming around the game and content a plenty, why would the want to go and spoil it all with 12yr olds yelling pwned all over the place? why would they want to see the server numbers drop so said dorks can get their kicks?
I have played many a PvP game over the years and must admit to turning my nose up at those games that had no PvP but my opinion has changed over time as I have seen so many games die with so many wankers griefing others away from a game they once enjoyed.
There is very little incentive for a developer to make a PvP game and I wonder why they even bother sometimes as the market is really moving away from PvP in mmorpgs and its all due to the actions of players voting with their feet and their wallet as well has the desire of the immature to spoil others fun because they can.
As for the endgame its a mmorpg there is no endgame, everything is about content and I think EQ2 has and will have it by the bucketful and content is what will keep large numbers or paying customers.
You know, Just for starters, to let this be known ( if you dont already know ) Im a WoW Fanboi, and I am not what you would call, "Interested" in EQ2, but this one is for EQ2, no matter how much I may dislike it.
The whole PVP thing is really overated, and over emphasized waaaaay too much! You cant judge a game wether it has or does not have PVP. Bettet yet, you need to judge the Games performance around the pvp system, if it has one!
If you want PVP, go play Enemy Territory or some game that actually lets you really do player versus player. Just because EQ2 does not have PVP does not mean its a bad game! Besides, one of the most dumbest things about an MMORPG ( or RPG ) for that matter, is to even have PVP. Take for example Star Wars Galaxies! That game was a joke for starters, but the whole pvp system was rediculous!!!!
The aspect of going rebel vs imperial was expected, but the system was in place and was a good one. The bad, or the "dumb" part about it was the actual combact asepct! Anyone who played SWG can tell you that a crap, what are they called.... the guys who use the Flamethrowers were way overly powerfull in the beginning of the game, and could kill anyone with a simple blast! The whole Cloning ideal was rediculous too. The continouity was good because it was Massive and hard to get organized, but one battle would take 5 hours due to the fact that no matter what you did, or how many times you died, you could just clone and be off again!
That being said, judging a game on if it has pvp or not, is one thing... judging the actual pvp system of a game that has it, is totally different. If a game does not have pvp, than you can only hope I suppose, but if its an mmo, than dont waste your breath on complaining about it. Specially if the game is not centered on PVP
Take EQ2 and WoW. Yes, WoW has pvp servers, but is the game really based on pvp? No. Thats absolutely redundant! Why would it make any sense for any of the Alliance fight and kill one another, along with the Horde trying to kill each other? The ergonomics of it all are not appropriate for the storyline. EQ2 is the same way. Although I dont know the storyline behind EverQuest, I can assume its somewhat the same. Also, shouldnt PVP be based on Skill?
Thats right, Skills. In the game Enemy Territory ( which I love to play by the way ( BLUELAVA )), the game is completely based on Skillz! Your skillz! If you havent played it your obviously noobish and die easily, but over time you get better and you can shoot people better in the head and run around better while avoiding fire and grenades. That is really fun PVP becaues depending on you reflexes, how your day went, or your hand-eye-coordination, your skill is really involved and calculated into it! In an MMORPG on the other hand, its the same ol every time. Lets say you have a mage ( high level ) and a Warrior ( high level ), and lets say the Warrior can win every time. Whats the point of even doing it? If the Warrior clearly has the higher hand at dealing damage or whatever, than you know exactly what moves he is goign to perform on you character every single time. Vice Versa for the Warrior. He knows exactly what spells the Mage is going to cast and most likely, in exactly what order. We know this because we know what skills are most powerful, or are most beneficial to that person at that time, and therefore, can expect them. So in an MMORPG, its kind of pointless, unless, like I said, the pvp system is actually really good
Another thing I wanted to mention is the aggression in pvp. I know this might sound silly ( You'll really see how much I dislike PVP ), but not only does our adrenaline really get pumping, and our hearts beat like crazy, but I honestly thing, our anger really takes the better part of us as well. We all get mad at video games, and the few amount of us have learned to accept it and take it as it is ( which is sometimes like a bitch ), but the other people dont, and it can become unhealthy I think. Getting mad at someone in the game, who your suppost to be having fun with, can become annoying and disturbing. I try to think about when I play Enemy Territory, which I havent done in a long time, and thats when I get into a game, and I get started. Yes at first, I dont have fast reload and I dont have you know, better agility yet or anything, but I will get extremely frustrated when I get into a game with some guy, screen name being.. I dont know... ( made up ) headshot.. or OneHitKill... name, and your running along in the game, you see some guy and you go off on this guy, unloading clip after clip, knowing you've shot him 50 times in the head, and than he turns right around... all you hear is shot/shot/shot/shot/shot, extremly fast, and your dead in what looks like 3 hits. Those type of things are very frustrating, and you can take that two ways, He is either Cheating ( which is unlikely ) or he is extremely skilled ( Or your just realy sucking, which is also unlikely ). So you continue through the game, and the end stats, which what took you 15 games to earn tons of xp and metals, he does in 5 games. It becomes frustrating, specially when the guy is taunting you, harassing you, or whatever else. In those instances, you cant exactly report anyone due to the fact that you dont own the server, and more than likely, the guy who does, dont give a shit, and so your left with leaving the server yourself feeling angry and out of place because you feel this guy has taken you for a spin, stole all your money, and than left you in an alley to die, or at least I think it feels that way sometimes ( those really bad playing days hehe ).
I guess, all in all, pvp should only be addressed to those games that are made for PVP.. ( Military games {allies vs axis} or counter-strike type games, Halo, and so forth ) and not even brought up for games that dont have PVP ( EQ2, WoW[even though it has pvp servers] ) and so forth!
Sorry if I went somewhat off-topic, I needed to get my point across! Sorry EQ2 guys, I know Im a WoW Fanboi and all, but EQ2 is still a game, and thats ok in my book.
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
I'm extremely glad there's no pvp in EQ2! I don't like pvp and I've seen enough MMO's with pvp go down the drain in regards to quality, balance and playability (sp?) to detest it even more. Being one who doesn't pvp, I'm always forced to see a good class (which offcourse I tend to like and play a lot) getting nerfed to hell and back, to attempt a balance between classes in pvm and pvp. So far it's proven impossible to get both aspects done right.
EQ2 has been released for almost 2 weeks now and guess what? As far as I have been able to tell, there's been no posts like 'nerf this; nerf that; omg they are so uber and I'm not'. I think that's a miracle and a first time for any of the large MMO's. If they're ever going to incorparate pvp in EQ2, I hope they'll make a totally new line of abilities and skills, specifically used for pvp. The balance as it is right now, is totally focused on pvm and there will be a lot of classes who won't stand a chance in pvp against a few others.
I think that EQ2 will be great and huge because of it's pvm environment. And not for some half succeeded attempt at pvp. Or maybe they'll be the first to do it right?
===========================================
I don't believe in God with a capital G and, despite their obvious solidity, I don't believe in the gods with their small g's. Not as real forces in the universe. But I believe in the bitch-goddess Irony. She crosses all time. She rules men and gods and God alike. And She has a wicked sense of humor.
Ilium - Dan Simmons
Listen, EQ2 sucks so bad it's amazing, it has absolutley nothing to offer other than a few pretty pictures IF you have a very high level machine.
EQ recommended for Geeks who like to pretend they really are Bob the Brave because they have no life, WoW recommended for people who want to enjoy a game rather than watch a loading screen.
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Listen, EQ2 sucks so bad it's amazing, it has absolutley nothing to offer other than a few pretty pictures IF you have a very high level machine.
EQ recommended for Geeks who like to pretend they really are Bob the Brave because they have no life, WoW recommended for people who want to enjoy a game rather than watch a loading screen.
Woah, hold on here, just because you like a game, everybody else that likes its competitor must be worthless without a life? (How do we define "Having no life" anyway? Some people like living their life behind a PC, others enjoy living their life behind a bar getting drunk, and suddenly they DO have a life?) Listen, I like both EQ2 and WoW and started playing EQ2 solely because it's 3 months time before it gets released in Europe, and I enjoy EQ2, does that make me a geek? No. Didn't think so.
-----------------Censored------------------
-----------------Censored------------------
Yeah I agree the game is immersive enough I can do without pvp... for a while heh. I doubt it holds my attention for more than a 6months without some special ruleset servers.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik."
http://www.lp.org
Valar- 17summoner - Guk Server
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
must greif..... need to make someone's life terrible...... corpse camping umm good......
feel need to AE newbies (oh wait, i like lvl restrictions in pvp...)
have faith man, the EQ2 devs have said a couple of times that they arent designing the game with pvp in mind, but that they are going to TRY and impliment it and see how hard it would be to do with the new engine (instances etc etc locked encounters)....
give it 6 months, then expect an announcement for a date when the servers will come online
Hehe...
You're new to this whole "Sony" thing aren't you.
In the past 2 years, SONY has been great with EQ Live. Star Wars Galaxies is the game that SONY neglects, not EQ. SONY is also constanly fixing bugs in EQII. Bugs are fixed almost every day. Better late then never. Just because they did not fix all the bugs in beta doesn't mean they can't fix them at all. SWG does not apply to the better late then never rule.
-----------------
Stealing sub-woofers everywhere!
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
I would consider EQ2 a carebear game, too. WoW has PvP on all servers, and FvF on about half the servers.. WoW is a much better game IMO.
While I agree this is a joke of a game. Have you even played? If not, why are you posting? Some people enjoy PvE more than PvP. Whats the point of your post? To incite rivalry between WoW and EQ2? Ok, there is rivalry. People who don't like PvE aren't going to play. Your only being a troll.
Oh yea I forgot to mention that the biggest MMO out is non-PvP based. Its called Everquest.
Why are you here trianon? You seem to hate Everquest 2 so bad yet still post on the forums? troll.
EQ2 is far from carebear, in fact it's less carebear than WoW, it has a lot more depth, a lot more complecated with a lot more work put in, whereas in WoW, crafting is easy, levelling is too fast imo, I'm here to enjoy GETTING to level 50-60-100 however high it goes, not to start enjoying it more at as whatever level the end is.
PvP is best left out of a game like EQ2, The game required commitment and dedication towards one character, and has a lot more depth, which keeps some of the less mature people away, the same immature people who whine for a nerf to this, to break that, and how them getting soandso isn't fair.
So without PvP, this game is BETTER off, just see the success of EQ1 (which I didn't like), and CoH (which I love), they both have no PvP, and they're doing FINE.