BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
the new random dungeon finder introduces players to other gamers from other servers that they would normally never have a chance to interact with?
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
I haven't read the entire thread but I will say not all guilds are 'raid' focused. I know mine isn't and I wouldn't be surprised if the 'casual' guild made up a significant part of guilds in WoW. WoW is defined casual by nature, there are more casual players than 'hardcore' players by I'd say 10-1. As far as fostering a social 'setting', I can't say I disagree that there isn't much there to encourage that but then again, I don't think WoW has ever been the shining example of social interaction outside of your guild. Most people only socialize with their guild, and really for the most part it has always been like this.
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
the new random dungeon finder introduces players to other gamers from other servers that they would normally never have a chance to interact with?
I just knew someone was going to post that.. I just knew it.. FYI.. the LFD was not installed as a social interaction tool.. It's a tool used to complete the "DAILY" heroic quest.. We all know that 95% of all random LFD end with the group splitting up because people only wanted to do the daily, get their frost emblems and take off.. Lets not fool ourselves or try to fool others..
I will give you half a point for trying tho., but try again..
NEXT example of WoW wonderful social interaction mechanics.. I'm ready
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
the new random dungeon finder introduces players to other gamers from other servers that they would normally never have a chance to interact with?
I just knew someone was going to post that.. I just knew it.. FYI.. the LFD was not installed as a social interaction tool.. It's a tool used to complete the "DAILY" heroic quest.. We all know that 95% of all random LFD end with the group splitting up because people only wanted to do the daily, get their frost emblems and take off.. Lets not fool ourselves or try to fool others..
I will give you half a point for trying tho., but try again..
NEXT example of WoW wonderful social interaction mechanics.. I'm ready
I see I'm not the only person who understands that while the WOW LFD tool is fantastic at setting up groups to complete dungeons, it has almost a reverse effect on socialization and adds tremendously to making WOW less and less social. (no chance to build up a server identity and get to know the other players, for good or bad)
I hope no new game ever considers putting this feature in when starting out and I will steer clear of any who use it until the game is extremely mature (as was the case with WOW)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
I haven't read the entire thread but I will say not all guilds are 'raid' focused. I know mine isn't and I wouldn't be surprised if the 'casual' guild made up a significant part of guilds in WoW. WoW is defined casual by nature, there are more casual players than 'hardcore' players by I'd say 10-1. As far as fostering a social 'setting', I can't say I disagree that there isn't much there to encourage that but then again, I don't think WoW has ever been the shining example of social interaction outside of your guild. Most people only socialize with their guild, and really for the most part it has always been like this.
I understand what you're saying and a small part I agree with.. I don't think small social guilds is a vast majority of players, In fact I think the addition of the "Guild Ranking/Leveling" system to be added soon proves that.. Most of that system is reliant on raid results, and we all know that raids are far from being social friendly.. I still remember the OPEN world 40 man raids that required more then just a guild.. Those raids didn't have geare score checks, and you pretty much grabbed all you could, to defete the big bad dragon.
I do agree that most people only socialize within their guild.. and even within that they seperate into cliques. The "you're not invited to raid" still runs wild within most raiding guilds.. It's why even Blizzard acknowledges that people are bouncing from guild to guild.. Which is BS in my opinon.. Blizzard says, we will score the player that guild hops, so they stop doing that.. It's part of the guild ranking system.. So what Blizzard is actually doing is saying, "you're stuck with this guild that promise raiding" when infact you're only a alt standby.. So when the player leaves he gets a bad score from Blizzard that effects his ability to get into a new guild? I see nothing in the new guild ranking system that is possitive for social interaction, infact I see more tools to make it worse..
It's funny that the OP mentions this because Mike Morniem agrees with him, he priased Farmville at the last Blizzcon and GDC, and said that was the market that Blizzard needed to tap into. My wife did a interesting article on it a couple weeks ago, we were told by a Blizzard rep shortly after that people misunderstood what Mike was saying, and that WoW isn't going to become farmville (despite it already coping some of Farmvilles moves) But they were highly motivated to include facebook type games within WoW that can be played at Taverns and in towns. It is going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
I remember seeing that too
here's another article
Blizzard Wants Battle.Net To Become Gaming's Facebook
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
The armory and GS are natural reactions to dealing with the reality, that way too many people either have no clue about how the various fights go(even with countless youtube videos and raid guides...) or can't be bothered to put in the minimal effort required to get a semi decent set of gear. Lets face it, these days if someone puts in even mininal effort, they can get enough emblems from running heroics that they can gear up to T9 level, and have some rather nice epic weapons from dungeon drops as well. Anyone who can't be bothered to do even that, has no business being included in a raid in the first place.
Those who go on about being "inclusive" in all things, either have not tried to conduct a raid with such people, or have another agenda.
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
the new random dungeon finder introduces players to other gamers from other servers that they would normally never have a chance to interact with?
I just knew someone was going to post that.. I just knew it.. FYI.. the LFD was not installed as a social interaction tool.. It's a tool used to complete the "DAILY" heroic quest.. We all know that 95% of all random LFD end with the group splitting up because people only wanted to do the daily, get their frost emblems and take off.. Lets not fool ourselves or try to fool others..
I will give you half a point for trying tho., but try again..
NEXT example of WoW wonderful social interaction mechanics.. I'm ready
I see I'm not the only person who understands that while the WOW LFD tool is fantastic at setting up groups to complete dungeons, it has almost a reverse effect on socialization and adds tremendously to making WOW less and less social. (no chance to build up a server identity and get to know the other players, for good or bad)
I hope no new game ever considers putting this feature in when starting out and I will steer clear of any who use it until the game is extremely mature (as was the case with WOW)
Well, thats certainly one perspective... From mine, I consider the new Dungeon Finder system to be one of the BEST additions to the game in years. I hope who ever came up with it got a fat raise and a promotion. It makes the game a lot more fun when one actually has access to the dungeon content, without wasting endless amounts of time LFG. It has made a huge difference in gearing up my various level 80's, and also in allowing me to work out my rotations in a dungeon setting.
Granted there are down sides(as there are with just about anything). Since one is not likely to see those people again, way too many people are rude and inconsiderate. But thats the price one pays for having 24/7 access to the dungeon content.
I hate to say it, but Blizzard and other gamers could learn a thing or two from many of these Facebook games. I have to say that the psychological mechanics of promoting a social "work together" game from companies like Zynga, are far superior then the BS raidcraft crap that Blizzard puts out.. Shouldn't MMO's be about socializing and finding reasons to accept and work together, instead of finding reasons (gear score) to exclude people from events or guilds.. etc etc..
Unless Blizzard has no intention of wanting a game like that.. as many of us feared that Blizzard actually wants to promote a guild wars esport end game..
I guess my subscription will stay inactive until someone makes a game that is a social sandbox, not a cliquie clubhouse.. lol
I'm just curious to learn who else has stopped to think about *why* this whole gearscore mechanic has manifested itself?
To string together a couple points: game mechanics that overstep what should happen naturally, and the pace of a game pushed beyond what should encourage natural behavior has resulted in methods to dissect a playerbase by itself.
The pace of a game is too fast, too spread out for people to meet one another, try each other on for size, and form social circles on their own. A LFG tool artificially influences this, but doesn't patch the problem, only the effect... which compounds the problem.
In the end, people *do* want to socialize. People *do* want to do everything you've mentioned... but Blizzard hasn't been taking notes themselves... on themselves. Things like gearscore and achievement counts are proof of rejections of a game system by its consumer-base.
If a game was properly developped, these rifts in community would be the exception, not the norm. But Blizzard has a long history of pushing their products their way onto a seemingly unwary gaming community. We could rattle off a rapsheet of WoW patch releases that came either too soon or too late, based off of blue posts themselves, because of what the competition in the gaming community was doing. But that's a topic for another time.
TLDR: Blizzard shouldn't be taking notes, they should first be worried about acting on the notes that their own have already taken through the years. Crawl, Blizzard, before attempting to walk.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
I agree to a point, i feel doac had this community all work and fight (effort) toward a common good type of interaction. But i also feel a lot of people are not going to pay that much money for such simple styles of gameplay.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Yo OP - I have to agree 50% that the LFD was designed as a social tool, because the wow realms can only handly about 4000 connections simultaneously - and due to the population dropping people were struggling to get dungeons completed. So what did they do? Instead of merging servers they gave players battlegroups, so now wow has only 13 servers and a bunch of connection log on nodes called realms. So battelgroups assisted inter realm pvp - then the natural follow on would be to somehow introduce a tool to allow cross realm dungeon running. So yeah I think 50% of lfd is about trying to increase pve cross realm interactions and the other 50% was to save thier face without having to announce server merges.
Yo OP - I have to agree 50% that the LFD was designed as a social tool, because the wow realms can only handly about 4000 connections simultaneously - and due to the population dropping people were struggling to get dungeons completed. So what did they do? Instead of merging servers they gave players battlegroups, so now wow has only 13 servers and a bunch of connection log on nodes called realms. So battelgroups assisted inter realm pvp - then the natural follow on would be to somehow introduce a tool to allow cross realm dungeon running. So yeah I think 50% of lfd is about trying to increase pve cross realm interactions and the other 50% was to save thier face without having to announce server merges.
Thats possible, but some realms are still very full. Silvermoon I know from experience is one of those that has more than its share of players, and that hasn't changed in years. Given how Blizzard has these things set up, I doubt they would benefit very much from server merges. Not to mention the haters would be beside themselves in glee, howling about the End of WoW being upon us... ^^
Comments
BTW.. I'm still waiting for anyone, to show me how Blizzard has a great "social" setting and mechanics? I'm all eyes, so please entertain me.. Let me help you start off.. Gear score is a great tool to welcome people into dungeons and raids.. OK.. carry on and keep it going..
the new random dungeon finder introduces players to other gamers from other servers that they would normally never have a chance to interact with?
I haven't read the entire thread but I will say not all guilds are 'raid' focused. I know mine isn't and I wouldn't be surprised if the 'casual' guild made up a significant part of guilds in WoW. WoW is defined casual by nature, there are more casual players than 'hardcore' players by I'd say 10-1. As far as fostering a social 'setting', I can't say I disagree that there isn't much there to encourage that but then again, I don't think WoW has ever been the shining example of social interaction outside of your guild. Most people only socialize with their guild, and really for the most part it has always been like this.
I just knew someone was going to post that.. I just knew it.. FYI.. the LFD was not installed as a social interaction tool.. It's a tool used to complete the "DAILY" heroic quest.. We all know that 95% of all random LFD end with the group splitting up because people only wanted to do the daily, get their frost emblems and take off.. Lets not fool ourselves or try to fool others..
I will give you half a point for trying tho., but try again..
NEXT example of WoW wonderful social interaction mechanics.. I'm ready
I see I'm not the only person who understands that while the WOW LFD tool is fantastic at setting up groups to complete dungeons, it has almost a reverse effect on socialization and adds tremendously to making WOW less and less social. (no chance to build up a server identity and get to know the other players, for good or bad)
I hope no new game ever considers putting this feature in when starting out and I will steer clear of any who use it until the game is extremely mature (as was the case with WOW)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I understand what you're saying and a small part I agree with.. I don't think small social guilds is a vast majority of players, In fact I think the addition of the "Guild Ranking/Leveling" system to be added soon proves that.. Most of that system is reliant on raid results, and we all know that raids are far from being social friendly.. I still remember the OPEN world 40 man raids that required more then just a guild.. Those raids didn't have geare score checks, and you pretty much grabbed all you could, to defete the big bad dragon.
I do agree that most people only socialize within their guild.. and even within that they seperate into cliques. The "you're not invited to raid" still runs wild within most raiding guilds.. It's why even Blizzard acknowledges that people are bouncing from guild to guild.. Which is BS in my opinon.. Blizzard says, we will score the player that guild hops, so they stop doing that.. It's part of the guild ranking system.. So what Blizzard is actually doing is saying, "you're stuck with this guild that promise raiding" when infact you're only a alt standby.. So when the player leaves he gets a bad score from Blizzard that effects his ability to get into a new guild? I see nothing in the new guild ranking system that is possitive for social interaction, infact I see more tools to make it worse..
I remember seeing that too
here's another article
Blizzard Wants Battle.Net To Become Gaming's Facebook
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/702634/blizzard-wants-battlenet-to-become-gamings-facebook-.html
EQ2 fan sites
The armory and GS are natural reactions to dealing with the reality, that way too many people either have no clue about how the various fights go(even with countless youtube videos and raid guides...) or can't be bothered to put in the minimal effort required to get a semi decent set of gear. Lets face it, these days if someone puts in even mininal effort, they can get enough emblems from running heroics that they can gear up to T9 level, and have some rather nice epic weapons from dungeon drops as well. Anyone who can't be bothered to do even that, has no business being included in a raid in the first place.
Those who go on about being "inclusive" in all things, either have not tried to conduct a raid with such people, or have another agenda.
Well, thats certainly one perspective... From mine, I consider the new Dungeon Finder system to be one of the BEST additions to the game in years. I hope who ever came up with it got a fat raise and a promotion. It makes the game a lot more fun when one actually has access to the dungeon content, without wasting endless amounts of time LFG. It has made a huge difference in gearing up my various level 80's, and also in allowing me to work out my rotations in a dungeon setting.
Granted there are down sides(as there are with just about anything). Since one is not likely to see those people again, way too many people are rude and inconsiderate. But thats the price one pays for having 24/7 access to the dungeon content.
I'm just curious to learn who else has stopped to think about *why* this whole gearscore mechanic has manifested itself?
To string together a couple points: game mechanics that overstep what should happen naturally, and the pace of a game pushed beyond what should encourage natural behavior has resulted in methods to dissect a playerbase by itself.
The pace of a game is too fast, too spread out for people to meet one another, try each other on for size, and form social circles on their own. A LFG tool artificially influences this, but doesn't patch the problem, only the effect... which compounds the problem.
In the end, people *do* want to socialize. People *do* want to do everything you've mentioned... but Blizzard hasn't been taking notes themselves... on themselves. Things like gearscore and achievement counts are proof of rejections of a game system by its consumer-base.
If a game was properly developped, these rifts in community would be the exception, not the norm. But Blizzard has a long history of pushing their products their way onto a seemingly unwary gaming community. We could rattle off a rapsheet of WoW patch releases that came either too soon or too late, based off of blue posts themselves, because of what the competition in the gaming community was doing. But that's a topic for another time.
TLDR: Blizzard shouldn't be taking notes, they should first be worried about acting on the notes that their own have already taken through the years. Crawl, Blizzard, before attempting to walk.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
I agree to a point, i feel doac had this community all work and fight (effort) toward a common good type of interaction. But i also feel a lot of people are not going to pay that much money for such simple styles of gameplay.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Yo OP - I have to agree 50% that the LFD was designed as a social tool, because the wow realms can only handly about 4000 connections simultaneously - and due to the population dropping people were struggling to get dungeons completed. So what did they do? Instead of merging servers they gave players battlegroups, so now wow has only 13 servers and a bunch of connection log on nodes called realms. So battelgroups assisted inter realm pvp - then the natural follow on would be to somehow introduce a tool to allow cross realm dungeon running. So yeah I think 50% of lfd is about trying to increase pve cross realm interactions and the other 50% was to save thier face without having to announce server merges.
Thats possible, but some realms are still very full. Silvermoon I know from experience is one of those that has more than its share of players, and that hasn't changed in years. Given how Blizzard has these things set up, I doubt they would benefit very much from server merges. Not to mention the haters would be beside themselves in glee, howling about the End of WoW being upon us... ^^