One thing to be sure is that just because statistically men or women like something more, doesn't mean there aren't members of the opposite sex that don't like whatever that is too.
Of course that's true. I can't link to a study to prove it, though. A generality is just about a majority trend, not every single case.
For example, I am a guy and I care how my character looks. I hate when every piece of my armor is some different color and I look like the Pied Piper of Azeroth (or wharever I am playing at the time). So maybe women care more about that, maybe not. Vanity seems more a universal trait to me. But I know I always want more control over my appearance.
The make up and fashion industries would differ with the opinion that men and women care equally about their appearance. It might be different in a MMORPG, but I don't think it's equal.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Maybe its the female Warrior thats on every single mmo box sold within the last five years. You know the one, with the massive titties and G string thong armor.
You are both wrong. Or right. Depends on how you view it as there are no definitive answers. If you are into sociology or gender research "environment" is quite important. If you are more interested in biology or evolutionary prsychology, you will blame "genetics". Most epigeneticists usually lie in the middle. Also, if you guys are going to go on with this discussion, seperate between gender and sex to ensure you are discussing the same topic.
The difference between gender and sex is moot WRT to this discussion. It is a political distinction, not a scientific one.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To throw my two man-cents in, I think they're attracted to:
Fluffy/cute things (OMG I COULD JUST HUG THAT WITTLE GNOME!)
Customization (dressing up). I have to admit, though, I think everyone has a desire for this. Guys want to look "cool" in their gear while girls want to, well, look "cute". I do enjoy matching armor and a uniform color scheme - no rainbow clown armor for me, please.
Social aspects over combat: Pretty self-explanatory. All MMOs would do well to incorporate more non-combat activities so that players have more things to do.
Most of the girls I've met in MMOs are really women; i.e., older (over 25 or at least in college), married (or with a boyfriend), etc. Part of me thinks that they're really playing because their husband/boyfriend got them into it.
Most of the girls I've met in MMOs are really women; i.e., older (over 25 or at least in college), married (or with a boyfriend), etc. Part of me thinks that they're really playing because their husband/boyfriend got them into it.
I'm not sure about most, but yes, a lot of them are.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To throw my two man-cents in, I think they're attracted to:
Fluffy/cute things (OMG I COULD JUST HUG THAT WITTLE GNOME!)
Customization (dressing up). I have to admit, though, I think everyone has a desire for this. Guys want to look "cool" in their gear while girls want to, well, look "cute". I do enjoy matching armor and a uniform color scheme - no rainbow clown armor for me, please.
Social aspects over combat: Pretty self-explanatory. All MMOs would do well to incorporate more non-combat activities so that players have more things to do.
Most of the girls I've met in MMOs are really women; i.e., older (over 25 or at least in college), married (or with a boyfriend), etc. Part of me thinks that they're really playing because their husband/boyfriend got them into it.
not most of the women I know!
This is not to say that there aren't women who like having stuffed animals and love the color pink, but the majority of women I know do not have stuffed animals or like cutsey things.
a few like the shopping thing and most have some sort of nesting instinct in that (especially at our ages) they want a reasonably nice apartment/home.
The social thing I can see but not because of gossiping or anything like that but because they aren't into the combat thing (for the few that play games).
However, these women rarely play vidoe games and if they do it's wii or adventure games like myst.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I started with SWG and played many different onces since.
What I want in a game..... (No particular order)
Awesome Character Creation - If my character is going to look ugly, I won't be happy and will complain. Now I am not some super hot girl in RL or Ugly either, but serisouly, its pretend, why wouldn't you want to look hot?
Detailed Crafting System - Similar to SWG, I liked how resorces had different stats depending on plantest and the time of the week. I loved how things changed and nothing was the same. How you could change the look of items, and dress different and put different pieces together to make a whole outfit (One of my many swg characters was a tailor )
Beautiful Wolrd - The world has to be lively, colorful and vivid. I don't mind deserts and dark places, but the world to me needs to be breath taking to some degree.
Freedom - Not be told what to do, where to go, and how to do it. We as women have been controlled for hundreds of years, obaying and being something pretty to look at. Well times have changed, more and more woman want independance and have freedome. So in a game, I want to choose what I want to do, and not be forced to follow a storyline, or told to kill 10 this and go back and kill how ever many more again until something drops. It is brainless and conrolling to me.
PVP - I do like some good PVP, however, I don't like being put in a queue and having to wait for it either. I like how guilds can declair war on one another and battle it out, no matter where it is. That one battle can last 20 mins on one set of buffs, not dying, going to a res spot in the PVP Instance and going back to battle in a snap. I like that you have to FIGHT to survive, use skills. Or that you and a group of buddies can go PVP mode, run around until some other people choose to battle it out with you. I like spontanious battles.
NO INSTANCE ZONES!!!!!!! - Like AOC, you go to a zone and you are in a different instance then other people. Stupid, I understand its to prevent lag and such, but I know many games that didnt' have that and never had bad lag issues.
Really, I could go on forever of the things I like and Do not Like, but when it comes down to it, I like mild RP (not where I talk all weird and fully pretend the game is real, but little bit ok) I don't like cookie cutter characters like WOW, I don't like being told where to go and what to do.
I think each woman is looking for something different in her world of MMO's, everyone is different and likes different things, but I am sure there are some simular likes and dislikes. Some of the things I like, other woman my not like or agree with. Its personal perspective. We all have our opinions.
To throw my two man-cents in, I think they're attracted to:
Fluffy/cute things (OMG I COULD JUST HUG THAT WITTLE GNOME!)
Customization (dressing up). I have to admit, though, I think everyone has a desire for this. Guys want to look "cool" in their gear while girls want to, well, look "cute". I do enjoy matching armor and a uniform color scheme - no rainbow clown armor for me, please.
Social aspects over combat: Pretty self-explanatory. All MMOs would do well to incorporate more non-combat activities so that players have more things to do.
Most of the girls I've met in MMOs are really women; i.e., older (over 25 or at least in college), married (or with a boyfriend), etc. Part of me thinks that they're really playing because their husband/boyfriend got them into it.
not most of the women I know!
This is not to say that there aren't women who like having stuffed animals and love the color pink, but the majority of women I know do not have stuffed animals or like cutsey things.
a few like the shopping thing and most have some sort of nesting instinct in that (especially at our ages) they want a reasonably nice apartment/home.
The social thing I can see but not because of gossiping or anything like that but because they aren't into the combat thing (for the few that play games).
However, these women rarely play vidoe games and if they do it's wii or adventure games like myst.
I tend to stay away from girls who enjoy killing everything in the face as much as guys do. That's why it was my two man-cents.
If girls don't like cutsey things, how can you explain the fact that there's more than a handful of people playing Gnomes in WoW? I mean come on, even Blizzard makes fun of them. Girls think they're cute, though, especially with bubble-gum pink hair and ponytails. Guys only play them to degrade their opponents as they OMGWTFPWN them (as evidenced by the many Gnome DKs with names like Gninjagnome created when they were overpowered, right after WotLK released).
Didn't imply gossiping when I said social, though I'm sure some women love to do that anyways. I just meant things like talking, mini-games with prizes or teams, etc.
Let's just agree on one thing: none of us will ever completely understand women .
I started with SWG and played many different onces since.
What I want in a game..... (No particular order)
Awesome Character Creation - If my character is going to look ugly, I won't be happy and will complain. Now I am not some super hot girl in RL or Ugly either, but serisouly, its pretend, why wouldn't you want to look hot?
Role playing purposes? Why would I want to be a 'hot' Orc or Undead?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I started with SWG and played many different onces since.
What I want in a game..... (No particular order)
Awesome Character Creation - If my character is going to look ugly, I won't be happy and will complain. Now I am not some super hot girl in RL or Ugly either, but serisouly, its pretend, why wouldn't you want to look hot?
Role playing purposes? Why would I want to be a 'hot' Orc or Undead?
Well lets say when in WOW, before the Blood Elfs, and all my SWG friends wanted to be horde, I made a Troll, them I could at least make semi ok looking, but I will tell you now.... I almost didn't play WOW because the character creation sucks and the horde race options sucked. My friends seriously had to convince me to continue to make my character. Any of my old guildies would tell you I complained for weeks about it and how ugly my character was. I like hotness, not "Cute and foofoo" But yeah, I wouldn't RP with Undead or an Orc,
Well lets say when in WOW, before the Blood Elfs, and all my SWG friends wanted to be horde, I made a Troll, them I could at least make semi ok looking, but I will tell you now.... I almost didn't play WOW because the character creation sucks and the horde race options sucked. My friends seriously had to convince me to continue to make my character. Any of my old guildies would tell you I complained for weeks about it and how ugly my character was. I like hotness, not "Cute and foofoo" But yeah, I wouldn't RP with Undead or an Orc,
I'm just the opposite. I think the ugly/scary characters have more - well - 'character' to them. I played predominantly Horde. A major reason was absolute distaste for the Gnomes.
Also - I usually like to play Dwarves in RPGs (loved them in WH Online), but they didn't look right to me in WoW. It was the way they ran, more than anything else.
I do wish WoW had had models which suited the class better. A Human mage looked the same as a warrior - minus the gear.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
62 yr old female gamer here. I am currently playing EQ2, LoTRO and FE. I love questing, exploration and the social aspect of mmo's. I am not a raider or pvp'er. I don't shop or spend lots of time decorating. I craft in FE and love it. Find it boring in LoTRo and EQ2. I want variety and adventure. I want a good looking game and I like to try a bunch of different roles just to see how they play. Don't care about the biggest and bestest and if your are measuring your epeen around me, I will walk away and not look back lol.
I didn't start playing mmo's until about 6 years ago, but did play rpg computer games. I love the active world feel of mmo's even though I solo alot. Variety and exploration are the most important for me I think.
Not even close, Buddy. Farmville, imo...is the most idiotic excuse for a "game" ever conceived.
It's pretty likely this thread will eventually implode from the weight of stereotypical ideas and assumptions. I can't speak for all women, only myself, and men, really....can't speak for women at all. I wouldn't dare to assume what men might want in MMOs, since you're all different....same with women.
I can tell you this....the only thing that might be assumed "girly" that I DO want in an MMO without question....is housing. As Sovrath said, perhaps that is part real world nesting instinct carried over into the game world...I don't know. But if a developer doesn't care enough about me feeling at home in a game world to provide me WITH a home....eventually I will tell them to fuck off. I may tolerate it for a while, but I never stay with a game that gives me no place TO stay.
Great crafting is another thing. Although lots of men also like to be able to forge their weapons and stuff.
Other than those two things...I probably want pretty much the same as male gamers want...
Fluid combat
Sizable number of racial choices and class choices (if it's a level based game, though I like skill based)
The more options the better, the less linear the better
If it's a quest centric game...I want lore that makes sense, and yes...the first time around I read all quests.
I want challenging PvE AND PvP, but no...it's not my preference to have FFA loot rules, really.
I don't care about gossip and general chat where people say inane things. Intelligent conversations are fine. Chuck Norris could fall off the earth tomorrow and I wouldn't care, and if I never see another "anal [link spell name here] joke" it will be too soon. If that made no sense to you...congratulations, you've been on some more decent servers in recent games than I have.
I prefer games that focus more on the journey and less on the "rush to end game" bullshit. Yes, I'm a raider in some games. However...I am not RUSHING to freaking get to raid. I will enjoy the process and get there when I get there.
I could keep going on, but....really why? Pretty much whatever is in most of your minds as to what you want in a game....I probably want that too.
EDIT: Oh....one more thing that MIGHT be different....I really don't generally care for outer space games. I think that, while not being a "rule," the majority of women PROBABLY don't grow up dreaming of being astronauts or flying spaceships. That particular environmental slant...the science fiction thing....really bores me. However....I don't like ONLY fantasy games either. Real world, such as Fallen Earth and The Secret World type environments are fine. Western cowboy stuff is cool....whatever....really anything other than outer space is fine by me. That may be more "girly" to think that way....I don't know.
The ones I've known have mostly played healer, non-combat or pet classes and have tended to be more interested than most male gamers in collecting fluff items like mounts and non-combat pets.
The hunter gatherer past of humanity. Women are the gatherers which explains their crazy need for shopping and males are the hunters which explains their desire for competitive sports or killing stuff and each other in games. Males usually are more competitive and they show it in the game too. Desire to have the bigger sword or kill others in pvp. Games are made for competition and that's why there are much more male players. Females have this maternal behaviour (raising a pet, healer)
From my experience females are drawn to mmo mostly because of the social factor but usually they leave because of the enormous amount of testosterone that mmorpg males usually create. In other words males see in a mmo war while females see a community and a way to socialise.
This is a very sound analysis.
But isnt this true in real life?
j/k
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
62 yr old female gamer here. I am currently playing EQ2, LoTRO and FE. I love questing, exploration and the social aspect of mmo's. I am not a raider or pvp'er. I don't shop or spend lots of time decorating. I craft in FE and love it. Find it boring in LoTRo and EQ2. I want variety and adventure. I want a good looking game and I like to try a bunch of different roles just to see how they play. Don't care about the biggest and bestest and if your are measuring your epeen around me, I will walk away and not look back lol.
I didn't start playing mmo's until about 6 years ago, but did play rpg computer games. I love the active world feel of mmo's even though I solo alot. Variety and exploration are the most important for me I think.
My 2 coppers worth.
I'm a 46 year old female and I can agree with most of that, but not all of it. However....I've been roaming around in this mostly male-driven hobby for a lot longer than you have been, and that might account for some of the differences between us.
It's interesting to me however, that you find the crafting in FE more satisfying than that of EQ2 and that you're not much into decorating your house. I love both of those things. I hate shopping in RL....love shopping in GAME. LOL
I'm usually the person that has a character with EVERY type of crafting skill maxed because I like being able to equip my own characters and also make a lot of in game MONEY. I am, eventually, one of the most wealthy players in the games I play because I enjoy this aspect.
Variety and exploration are tantamount to me as well. Give me a beautiful wide open explorable game world with lots of adventure and I'm a happy camper. I also generally will have alts of EVERY single class eventually....for different reasons though, maybe. I do enjoy raiding and I like to know how each class plays because it helps me in raiding....AND in PvP....to have a better understand of all class dynamics.
Oh...and I enjoy limited PvP. I like world PvP, sometimes battleground PvP, but I don't enjoy FFA loot rules. I am also capable of really enjoying games that don't have PvP, so....it's not a REQUIREMENT for me.
As far as my favorite classes....I don't enjoy pet classes at all, other than maybe warlock / necromancer types (not hunters), and while I do enjoy healing, I have never played a 100% straight up healer....hybrid healers, yes. But contrary to what may SOUND "feminine" I actually really enjoy melee combat classes....scouts, rogues, warriors, etc. I pretty much can enjoy any class though, to be honest. /shrug
Personally, there isn't just one thing that draws me to a game.
I love combat, pvp, raiding, and instances just as much as I love finding armor that matches, armor sets, dying armor, getting pets, and finding fluff items all the time.
Personalization and Customization are huge things for me. I want to be able to control how I look, when I want to, and not just be a clone of someone else.
I don't pvp to be super competative, I do it for fun.
There is no class specific roll that I really prefer. In LotRO, I was a captain. In WoW, I was a priest and DK (tank or dps). In Guild Wars, my favorite class is the elementalist. I like trying new things. Being able to try new things keeps my interest. Options gets my interest. Do I have to just pvp to get something?
I would include a bit more, but I should be off for now.
I just don't think people understand the real differences in male/female lifestyles... and first-off, females that do play video games were brought in by a male (brother, friend, boyfriend). I've always wondered what women do with their spare time if they don't play videogames like we do, and then it hit me; TV. Women are just about the only ones still watching TV, and it's showing with the higher volume of chick-shows, and this has definitely been the case with the movie scene too. Games have always been a male-dominated scene, and every attempt to target females fails (i.e. bratz and barbie horse adventures). It's how it is, and you have to admit that chick who play games become creepier in a way. I kinda miss the holier-than-thou attitude from girlfriends that "just don't get it".
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm a female gamer and I think for me personally, there are a lot of different factors.
--Gear is important to a point - but only as far as it allows me to enjoy content. If I'm not forced to get gear to enjoy content, then it's not terribly important to me unless it just is cool aesthetically.
--I do enjoy dungeons, raiding, and generally killing things. I also happen to love playing L4D and L4D2 (though the new xpac campaign is set to "are you suicidally insane?" mode, which is a little more hardcore than I really am interested in being in any game). But I don't enjoy the elitist mentality, showing off, rudeness, and general immaturity and sense of entitlement that I see in many game communities today.
--Crafting and the interdependency of craft & tradeskills is an important part of my gameplay. This is, in my opinion, one thing that SWG did/does well that other games could do much better. This also contributes to social dynamic and, for lack of a better way to put it, kind of "forces" people to consider their words and actions because, in SWG, if a vendor feels that a player's overall behavior is, as a general rule, obnoxious and inappropriate or if they grossly mishandled a business transaction with, the vendor has the option to bar that player from their shops. Because of the social and business network and contacts that the vendor has, if the vendor chooses, the vendor can present the situation reasonably to his or her network of contacts, provide evidence for them to evaluate the situation, and, once they've evaluated the situation, they, too, can decide whether or not they would choose to do business with this person (or perhaps even their guild if the situation warrants such drastic measures be taken) in the future. Anonymous auction houses, over which players have no control, take away this ability for communities to "police" themselves and thus, affect player behavior so that fewer people behave in a manner that is harmful to the overall community.
--Collecting is, occasionally, a fun thing to do. If there's a pet or some type of "fluff" item in a game that I personally think is just really cool, sure, I'll take the time to do the grinding for it. Will I collect every pet WoW has to offer just because they are there? Not really. But if there's something that just really looks amazing to me, I'll go ahead and do a little grinding here and there to get it. But by the same token, don't turn everything in the game into an achievement or a collection because that gets old really fast.
--Decorating is another thing I can enjoy, but it's not the be-all and end-all for me in a game. It's nice to have, certainly, but it's not a deal-breaker.
--One thing that is definitely a deal-breaker is terrible game mechanics and ill-conceived lore. If the mechanics and controls are clunky or I simply spam the same three buttons over and over with no thought or strategy required, the game is not for me. Likewise, if the "kill ten rats" quest we're all so familiar with has no meaning except to kill ten rats, the game is not for me. I don't mind killing ten rats, but give me a logical reason for doing it - make me feel as if the actions I am taking serve a purpose other than giving me XP. Tell me the ten rats are nibbling on the baby's toes and if they break the skin, the baby is going to turn into something that makes a L4D witch seem as harmless as Little Orphan Annie and go on to infect and/or wipe out the entire world, I don't care (well, ok, maybe I do care, because that was very ill conceived and illogical ;P). But give me a reason that makes sense with the rest of the lore that you have created for the little world you have given me to play in.
--Along with that lore, I personally enjoy roleplaying. That is what MMORPGs are more or less about, in my opinion. That doesn't mean that I expect everyone else to enjoy it, it just means that it's my opinion that if you're playing an MMORPG on an RP server, it would seem a bit on the rude side to attempt to degrade people who are roleplaying (note: roleplaying here does not mean cybering, for which there are certainly sites somewhere on the internet, I'm sure, but please...those sites do not include area chat in my games.)
--I even enjoy occasional PvP, provided the "trash talk" doesn't degrade to rudeness and personal attacks or insults. I kind of draw the line at that because I personally feel it is unnecessary. But again, that is a personal choice.
--I prefer not to use Vent, or rather, not to speak on Vent, unless it is with people I know because my experience over the years with Teamspeak and Ventrilo with people I do not know well has usually gone something like this:
Me: says something related to PvP, dungeon, raid
Multiple male voices: Oh ehm ghee, a girl! Everyone shut up! Talk again! A girl's voice! Oh my god, it's so sexy!
That's not an exaggeration - it's actually happened multiple times. So unless it's my own guild who I've been gaming with for years or others I've known for quite some time, I just mute the mic and say my mic's not working, but my speakers work fine, hehe.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I had a very hot ex gf once who, at the time, played EQ before I even knew what an MMO was. She'd usually play it at night then after that we'd have sex time.
I had a very hot ex gf once who, at the time, played EQ before I even knew what an MMO was. She'd usually play it at night then after that we'd have sex time.
The fact that you call it that tells me you're not ready for it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Interesting question Amathe I had to think a little.
I'm a female gamer and for me it was the diversity some of the "older" games offered, Star Wars Galaxys is a prime example of this. Taking part in building social networks like the towns,shops and guilds or maybe bio-engineering an awesome but complicated pet that could take weeks, months even to get right.
Taking time out to hang with friends, chatting around campfires or dancing in the cantinas........After having sorted out the baddie!
Don't get me wrong as I also love to quest, raid and fight, but I get no real buzz from obtaining "uber" gear. In fact sometimes it feels as if some people are being driven by the fear factor, the epic fear of failiure in other's eyes rather than the comradship of battle.. The problem with just raiding etc is, it also gets to feel empty after a while and repetative.
I love to shop ) ... So for me bring back player made ones..nothing quite like looking for a crafted droid who can hold your tools and work for you! Or even choosing which house to buy and the items to fill it with.
Basicallly I guess I like more divergence, making the "world" feel more real and with a few pink frills attached.
Character creation is an important part, the need to feel a connection and that your character is a some-what unique individual.
Like you I don't want to make any sexist assumptions and I feel a lot of males would appreciate more stimulating depth too. Maybe there is very little difference between male and female (except the pink frills of course, well in some cases). But it does seem more gals play Sims and more guys Battleground Europe. Maybe we should just merge the two )
Will be interesting to hear what others have to say!
Not to turn this into a SWG rant (that's sooo 2006 ), but let's face it, love it or hate it, SWG totally nailed the social-building aspect of gaming. We all built living, breathing communities back then. I can't think of many (if any) games that have that feature in quite the same quality and quantity anymore, 'cept perhaps EVE - though it's focus is more competitive.
Back to topic, as a male gamer who has played with quite a lot of fem-gamers, I find that in general they like gaming for the same reason dudes do: fun. There are small 'cultural' differences though. What Ammie says above is also true in most of my experiences. My ex is still collecting fluff items in WoW, to this day. I think, personally, that in general, most fem-gamers are perhaps less motivated by competition, as compared to guys. Hunter/Gatherer thing I guess. Perhaps it's all just genetics after all.
I have asked this very question about what she likes in mmo:s and what she would like to see more of. This is what I got from her so far. She looooooved UO because of the housing and the crafting. She is currently playing WOW now and the main focus in that game is collecting pets and mounts, cooking and gather achivements. She also likes the season quests were she can get some cool fluff stuffs like bunny ears, festive clothes etc.
Now about the what she doesnt like in current games. She doesnt like pvp at all. Raids and instances are also disliked because they are getting a bit to intence, she is a bit casual player and dont want to sit all concentrated for longer periods. She also hate how the chat often turns in random groups and pvp where words like "u f#cking retard" "noob" "We raped them" etc turns up. She is also very non-competitive.
Ingredients that she misses from games tried out are some more puzzle and mind bending aspects. Guess thats all.
So if I should sum up her dream game I would believe it would look something like this. A game with nice housing and to be able to customize it and decorate it in UO-style. Throw in tons of pets and mounts and collective stuffs and achivements. And then finally, instead of quests like "kill 10 this gather 20 that" make them to puzzle quests. Or like those point and click adventures, monkey island or what they are called.
I had a very hot ex gf once who, at the time, played EQ before I even knew what an MMO was. She'd usually play it at night then after that we'd have sex time.
The fact that you call it that tells me you're not ready for it.
I got a feeling he had no choice, ready or not he was taken by his hot ex-gf.
Comments
The make up and fashion industries would differ with the opinion that men and women care equally about their appearance. It might be different in a MMORPG, but I don't think it's equal.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Maybe its the female Warrior thats on every single mmo box sold within the last five years. You know the one, with the massive titties and G string thong armor.
The difference between gender and sex is moot WRT to this discussion. It is a political distinction, not a scientific one.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To throw my two man-cents in, I think they're attracted to:
Fluffy/cute things (OMG I COULD JUST HUG THAT WITTLE GNOME!)
Customization (dressing up). I have to admit, though, I think everyone has a desire for this. Guys want to look "cool" in their gear while girls want to, well, look "cute". I do enjoy matching armor and a uniform color scheme - no rainbow clown armor for me, please.
Social aspects over combat: Pretty self-explanatory. All MMOs would do well to incorporate more non-combat activities so that players have more things to do.
Most of the girls I've met in MMOs are really women; i.e., older (over 25 or at least in college), married (or with a boyfriend), etc. Part of me thinks that they're really playing because their husband/boyfriend got them into it.
I'm not sure about most, but yes, a lot of them are.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
not most of the women I know!
This is not to say that there aren't women who like having stuffed animals and love the color pink, but the majority of women I know do not have stuffed animals or like cutsey things.
a few like the shopping thing and most have some sort of nesting instinct in that (especially at our ages) they want a reasonably nice apartment/home.
The social thing I can see but not because of gossiping or anything like that but because they aren't into the combat thing (for the few that play games).
However, these women rarely play vidoe games and if they do it's wii or adventure games like myst.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
lmao on that thred
female gamers love moogs with cooking only
but without fat nerds)
I appreciate the vote of confidence.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To many post to read through.....
Female Gamer here...
I started with SWG and played many different onces since.
What I want in a game..... (No particular order)
Awesome Character Creation - If my character is going to look ugly, I won't be happy and will complain. Now I am not some super hot girl in RL or Ugly either, but serisouly, its pretend, why wouldn't you want to look hot?
Detailed Crafting System - Similar to SWG, I liked how resorces had different stats depending on plantest and the time of the week. I loved how things changed and nothing was the same. How you could change the look of items, and dress different and put different pieces together to make a whole outfit (One of my many swg characters was a tailor )
Beautiful Wolrd - The world has to be lively, colorful and vivid. I don't mind deserts and dark places, but the world to me needs to be breath taking to some degree.
Freedom - Not be told what to do, where to go, and how to do it. We as women have been controlled for hundreds of years, obaying and being something pretty to look at. Well times have changed, more and more woman want independance and have freedome. So in a game, I want to choose what I want to do, and not be forced to follow a storyline, or told to kill 10 this and go back and kill how ever many more again until something drops. It is brainless and conrolling to me.
PVP - I do like some good PVP, however, I don't like being put in a queue and having to wait for it either. I like how guilds can declair war on one another and battle it out, no matter where it is. That one battle can last 20 mins on one set of buffs, not dying, going to a res spot in the PVP Instance and going back to battle in a snap. I like that you have to FIGHT to survive, use skills. Or that you and a group of buddies can go PVP mode, run around until some other people choose to battle it out with you. I like spontanious battles.
NO INSTANCE ZONES!!!!!!! - Like AOC, you go to a zone and you are in a different instance then other people. Stupid, I understand its to prevent lag and such, but I know many games that didnt' have that and never had bad lag issues.
Really, I could go on forever of the things I like and Do not Like, but when it comes down to it, I like mild RP (not where I talk all weird and fully pretend the game is real, but little bit ok) I don't like cookie cutter characters like WOW, I don't like being told where to go and what to do.
I think each woman is looking for something different in her world of MMO's, everyone is different and likes different things, but I am sure there are some simular likes and dislikes. Some of the things I like, other woman my not like or agree with. Its personal perspective. We all have our opinions.
~*`*~ Vixen ~*`*~
I tend to stay away from girls who enjoy killing everything in the face as much as guys do. That's why it was my two man-cents.
If girls don't like cutsey things, how can you explain the fact that there's more than a handful of people playing Gnomes in WoW? I mean come on, even Blizzard makes fun of them. Girls think they're cute, though, especially with bubble-gum pink hair and ponytails. Guys only play them to degrade their opponents as they OMGWTFPWN them (as evidenced by the many Gnome DKs with names like Gninjagnome created when they were overpowered, right after WotLK released).
Didn't imply gossiping when I said social, though I'm sure some women love to do that anyways. I just meant things like talking, mini-games with prizes or teams, etc.
Let's just agree on one thing: none of us will ever completely understand women
.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well lets say when in WOW, before the Blood Elfs, and all my SWG friends wanted to be horde, I made a Troll, them I could at least make semi ok looking, but I will tell you now.... I almost didn't play WOW because the character creation sucks and the horde race options sucked. My friends seriously had to convince me to continue to make my character. Any of my old guildies would tell you I complained for weeks about it and how ugly my character was. I like hotness, not "Cute and foofoo"
But yeah, I wouldn't RP with Undead or an Orc, 
~*`*~ Vixen ~*`*~
I'm just the opposite. I think the ugly/scary characters have more - well - 'character' to them. I played predominantly Horde. A major reason was absolute distaste for the Gnomes.
Also - I usually like to play Dwarves in RPGs (loved them in WH Online), but they didn't look right to me in WoW. It was the way they ran, more than anything else.
I do wish WoW had had models which suited the class better. A Human mage looked the same as a warrior - minus the gear.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
62 yr old female gamer here. I am currently playing EQ2, LoTRO and FE. I love questing, exploration and the social aspect of mmo's. I am not a raider or pvp'er. I don't shop or spend lots of time decorating. I craft in FE and love it. Find it boring in LoTRo and EQ2. I want variety and adventure. I want a good looking game and I like to try a bunch of different roles just to see how they play. Don't care about the biggest and bestest and if your are measuring your epeen around me, I will walk away and not look back lol.
I didn't start playing mmo's until about 6 years ago, but did play rpg computer games. I love the active world feel of mmo's even though I solo alot. Variety and exploration are the most important for me I think.
My 2 coppers worth.
Not even close, Buddy. Farmville, imo...is the most idiotic excuse for a "game" ever conceived.
It's pretty likely this thread will eventually implode from the weight of stereotypical ideas and assumptions. I can't speak for all women, only myself, and men, really....can't speak for women at all. I wouldn't dare to assume what men might want in MMOs, since you're all different....same with women.
I can tell you this....the only thing that might be assumed "girly" that I DO want in an MMO without question....is housing. As Sovrath said, perhaps that is part real world nesting instinct carried over into the game world...I don't know. But if a developer doesn't care enough about me feeling at home in a game world to provide me WITH a home....eventually I will tell them to fuck off. I may tolerate it for a while, but I never stay with a game that gives me no place TO stay.
Great crafting is another thing. Although lots of men also like to be able to forge their weapons and stuff.
Other than those two things...I probably want pretty much the same as male gamers want...
Fluid combat
Sizable number of racial choices and class choices (if it's a level based game, though I like skill based)
The more options the better, the less linear the better
If it's a quest centric game...I want lore that makes sense, and yes...the first time around I read all quests.
I want challenging PvE AND PvP, but no...it's not my preference to have FFA loot rules, really.
I don't care about gossip and general chat where people say inane things. Intelligent conversations are fine. Chuck Norris could fall off the earth tomorrow and I wouldn't care, and if I never see another "anal [link spell name here] joke" it will be too soon. If that made no sense to you...congratulations, you've been on some more decent servers in recent games than I have.
I prefer games that focus more on the journey and less on the "rush to end game" bullshit. Yes, I'm a raider in some games. However...I am not RUSHING to freaking get to raid. I will enjoy the process and get there when I get there.
I could keep going on, but....really why? Pretty much whatever is in most of your minds as to what you want in a game....I probably want that too.
EDIT: Oh....one more thing that MIGHT be different....I really don't generally care for outer space games. I think that, while not being a "rule," the majority of women PROBABLY don't grow up dreaming of being astronauts or flying spaceships. That particular environmental slant...the science fiction thing....really bores me. However....I don't like ONLY fantasy games either. Real world, such as Fallen Earth and The Secret World type environments are fine. Western cowboy stuff is cool....whatever....really anything other than outer space is fine by me. That may be more "girly" to think that way....I don't know.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
But isnt this true in real life?
j/k
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
I'm a 46 year old female and I can agree with most of that, but not all of it.
However....I've been roaming around in this mostly male-driven hobby for a lot longer than you have been, and that might account for some of the differences between us.
It's interesting to me however, that you find the crafting in FE more satisfying than that of EQ2 and that you're not much into decorating your house.
I love both of those things. I hate shopping in RL....love shopping in GAME. LOL
I'm usually the person that has a character with EVERY type of crafting skill maxed because I like being able to equip my own characters and also make a lot of in game MONEY. I am, eventually, one of the most wealthy players in the games I play because I enjoy this aspect.
Variety and exploration are tantamount to me as well. Give me a beautiful wide open explorable game world with lots of adventure and I'm a happy camper. I also generally will have alts of EVERY single class eventually....for different reasons though, maybe. I do enjoy raiding and I like to know how each class plays because it helps me in raiding....AND in PvP....to have a better understand of all class dynamics.
Oh...and I enjoy limited PvP. I like world PvP, sometimes battleground PvP, but I don't enjoy FFA loot rules. I am also capable of really enjoying games that don't have PvP, so....it's not a REQUIREMENT for me.
As far as my favorite classes....I don't enjoy pet classes at all, other than maybe warlock / necromancer types (not hunters), and while I do enjoy healing, I have never played a 100% straight up healer....hybrid healers, yes. But contrary to what may SOUND "feminine" I actually really enjoy melee combat classes....scouts, rogues, warriors, etc. I pretty much can enjoy any class though, to be honest. /shrug
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Personally, there isn't just one thing that draws me to a game.
I love combat, pvp, raiding, and instances just as much as I love finding armor that matches, armor sets, dying armor, getting pets, and finding fluff items all the time.
Personalization and Customization are huge things for me. I want to be able to control how I look, when I want to, and not just be a clone of someone else.
I don't pvp to be super competative, I do it for fun.
There is no class specific roll that I really prefer. In LotRO, I was a captain. In WoW, I was a priest and DK (tank or dps). In Guild Wars, my favorite class is the elementalist. I like trying new things. Being able to try new things keeps my interest. Options gets my interest. Do I have to just pvp to get something?
I would include a bit more, but I should be off for now.
I just don't think people understand the real differences in male/female lifestyles... and first-off, females that do play video games were brought in by a male (brother, friend, boyfriend). I've always wondered what women do with their spare time if they don't play videogames like we do, and then it hit me; TV. Women are just about the only ones still watching TV, and it's showing with the higher volume of chick-shows, and this has definitely been the case with the movie scene too. Games have always been a male-dominated scene, and every attempt to target females fails (i.e. bratz and barbie horse adventures). It's how it is, and you have to admit that chick who play games become creepier in a way. I kinda miss the holier-than-thou attitude from girlfriends that "just don't get it".
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm a female gamer and I think for me personally, there are a lot of different factors.
--Gear is important to a point - but only as far as it allows me to enjoy content. If I'm not forced to get gear to enjoy content, then it's not terribly important to me unless it just is cool aesthetically.
--I do enjoy dungeons, raiding, and generally killing things. I also happen to love playing L4D and L4D2 (though the new xpac campaign is set to "are you suicidally insane?" mode, which is a little more hardcore than I really am interested in being in any game). But I don't enjoy the elitist mentality, showing off, rudeness, and general immaturity and sense of entitlement that I see in many game communities today.
--Crafting and the interdependency of craft & tradeskills is an important part of my gameplay. This is, in my opinion, one thing that SWG did/does well that other games could do much better. This also contributes to social dynamic and, for lack of a better way to put it, kind of "forces" people to consider their words and actions because, in SWG, if a vendor feels that a player's overall behavior is, as a general rule, obnoxious and inappropriate or if they grossly mishandled a business transaction with, the vendor has the option to bar that player from their shops. Because of the social and business network and contacts that the vendor has, if the vendor chooses, the vendor can present the situation reasonably to his or her network of contacts, provide evidence for them to evaluate the situation, and, once they've evaluated the situation, they, too, can decide whether or not they would choose to do business with this person (or perhaps even their guild if the situation warrants such drastic measures be taken) in the future. Anonymous auction houses, over which players have no control, take away this ability for communities to "police" themselves and thus, affect player behavior so that fewer people behave in a manner that is harmful to the overall community.
--Collecting is, occasionally, a fun thing to do. If there's a pet or some type of "fluff" item in a game that I personally think is just really cool, sure, I'll take the time to do the grinding for it. Will I collect every pet WoW has to offer just because they are there? Not really. But if there's something that just really looks amazing to me, I'll go ahead and do a little grinding here and there to get it. But by the same token, don't turn everything in the game into an achievement or a collection because that gets old really fast.
--Decorating is another thing I can enjoy, but it's not the be-all and end-all for me in a game. It's nice to have, certainly, but it's not a deal-breaker.
--One thing that is definitely a deal-breaker is terrible game mechanics and ill-conceived lore. If the mechanics and controls are clunky or I simply spam the same three buttons over and over with no thought or strategy required, the game is not for me. Likewise, if the "kill ten rats" quest we're all so familiar with has no meaning except to kill ten rats, the game is not for me. I don't mind killing ten rats, but give me a logical reason for doing it - make me feel as if the actions I am taking serve a purpose other than giving me XP. Tell me the ten rats are nibbling on the baby's toes and if they break the skin, the baby is going to turn into something that makes a L4D witch seem as harmless as Little Orphan Annie and go on to infect and/or wipe out the entire world, I don't care (well, ok, maybe I do care, because that was very ill conceived and illogical ;P). But give me a reason that makes sense with the rest of the lore that you have created for the little world you have given me to play in.
--Along with that lore, I personally enjoy roleplaying. That is what MMORPGs are more or less about, in my opinion. That doesn't mean that I expect everyone else to enjoy it, it just means that it's my opinion that if you're playing an MMORPG on an RP server, it would seem a bit on the rude side to attempt to degrade people who are roleplaying (note: roleplaying here does not mean cybering, for which there are certainly sites somewhere on the internet, I'm sure, but please...those sites do not include area chat in my games.)
--I even enjoy occasional PvP, provided the "trash talk" doesn't degrade to rudeness and personal attacks or insults. I kind of draw the line at that because I personally feel it is unnecessary. But again, that is a personal choice.
--I prefer not to use Vent, or rather, not to speak on Vent, unless it is with people I know because my experience over the years with Teamspeak and Ventrilo with people I do not know well has usually gone something like this:
Me: says something related to PvP, dungeon, raid
Multiple male voices: Oh ehm ghee, a girl! Everyone shut up! Talk again! A girl's voice! Oh my god, it's so sexy!
That's not an exaggeration - it's actually happened multiple times. So unless it's my own guild who I've been gaming with for years or others I've known for quite some time, I just mute the mic and say my mic's not working, but my speakers work fine, hehe.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I had a very hot ex gf once who, at the time, played EQ before I even knew what an MMO was. She'd usually play it at night then after that we'd have sex time.
The fact that you call it that tells me you're not ready for it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Not to turn this into a SWG rant (that's sooo 2006
), but let's face it, love it or hate it, SWG totally nailed the social-building aspect of gaming. We all built living, breathing communities back then. I can't think of many (if any) games that have that feature in quite the same quality and quantity anymore, 'cept perhaps EVE - though it's focus is more competitive.
Back to topic, as a male gamer who has played with quite a lot of fem-gamers, I find that in general they like gaming for the same reason dudes do: fun. There are small 'cultural' differences though. What Ammie says above is also true in most of my experiences. My ex is still collecting fluff items in WoW, to this day. I think, personally, that in general, most fem-gamers are perhaps less motivated by competition, as compared to guys. Hunter/Gatherer thing I guess. Perhaps it's all just genetics after all.
Male player here with a playing wife.
I have asked this very question about what she likes in mmo:s and what she would like to see more of. This is what I got from her so far. She looooooved UO because of the housing and the crafting. She is currently playing WOW now and the main focus in that game is collecting pets and mounts, cooking and gather achivements. She also likes the season quests were she can get some cool fluff stuffs like bunny ears, festive clothes etc.
Now about the what she doesnt like in current games. She doesnt like pvp at all. Raids and instances are also disliked because they are getting a bit to intence, she is a bit casual player and dont want to sit all concentrated for longer periods. She also hate how the chat often turns in random groups and pvp where words like "u f#cking retard" "noob" "We raped them" etc turns up. She is also very non-competitive.
Ingredients that she misses from games tried out are some more puzzle and mind bending aspects. Guess thats all.
So if I should sum up her dream game I would believe it would look something like this. A game with nice housing and to be able to customize it and decorate it in UO-style. Throw in tons of pets and mounts and collective stuffs and achivements. And then finally, instead of quests like "kill 10 this gather 20 that" make them to puzzle quests. Or like those point and click adventures, monkey island or what they are called.
I got a feeling he had no choice, ready or not he was taken by his hot ex-gf.