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Reason for no PVP...end of story.
WizGamer
Member UncommonPosts: 403
The reason for no PVP is because PVP sucks in true mmorpgs. As many people say, the truth of the matter is that the classes are unbalanced for PvP(not I say FOR PVP because they are balanced for PVE because the fighting is somewhat different), making some better in PVP than others. What about the buffers like a priests and bards. They are made for PvE not PvP. PvP in mmorpgs generally doesn't work unless the classes are balanced for PVP. Classes in WoW are somewhat balanced but not well making the PvP a pain in that game. However in some games like Lineage 2 they are balanced (notice how the spells take such a chunk out of the person) pretty good. Not perfect though.
I don't think this is the end of the possibility of PvP. Actually I did hear it is planned in the future but then that it wasn't but maybe if they balance the classes they may implement it.
Comments
This is true. DAoC is a perfect example of this. In the recent Frontiers expansion pack, fighters were rendered useless by casters. When CoH releases CoV, Tanks and Scrappers will be useless since alot of the enemy players will be able to fly. In the end, PvP is an unbalanced and unnecessary factor of a mmorpg.
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"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
PvP can be good and bad.
On one hand, alot of times it's just flat out fun to kill people. It can also be good for roleplaying, and may provide incentives in some games(like in L2 where you could loot other players).
But on the other hand, it can limit certain aspects of gameplay. Some skills may be good in PvE, but completely own in PvP. As a result, the skill may just be scrapped. It can also lead to other balancing issues. Say a Neocromancer is perfectly balanced in PvE, but they are too powerful in PvP. The result is usually the class gets nerfed, making PvP balanced, but now gimping the necro in PvE.
Overall I would like to have PvP in a game, but it certainly isn't something that would stop me from buying it.
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[Old] My City of Heroes Detailed Update List
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/450/loadthread/44836/setstart/1/loadclass/143
[OLD] - My Open Beta List and Review http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/584/loadthread/34685/setstart/1/loadclass/35
Well for your information since you talk about CoV.
1- It have not been said if level will have or not an impact on PvP (if not, then a level 1 can kill a level 50 as easiy as another 50).
2- If the levels does matter, my broadsword scrapper can kill ANY blaster, controller or Defender in 1 single hit, I dont say I will be the bomb or good, I just say someone that say I am useless is pretty much beside the track, a GROUP will not find this that bad, but a soloer considering me solo will think twice, even if he surprised me, even if he attack me twice, I may be standing and killing him 1 blow...(and auto-follow + super speed & super jump = there pretty fast). On the defensive side, with IH and integration I am the easiest scrapper to kill, I am not sure many blasters could outdamage IH and integration is a major pain for them. Defenders and Controllers might be able to bypass Integration and IH and then hope doing something...Imagine now a scrapper that is broadsword and super reflexes instead, dark armor in PvP is quite good and invulnerability is decent. I am sure there will be a ''sapper-villain''. They will be the PvP bomb! Not to forget, a spines scrapper have pretty nice ranged attack that root an opponent and send them to the ground, all in 1 attack...Claws have ranged attack as well...cant talk much about the others as I know them less. And tell me, how can a defender seriously entertain the idea to kill a tanker? I mean, it gonna be longer then soloing an AV assuming they can to even start with.
3- Cryptic have stated that PvP will be consentual. What does consentual mean exactly, nobody know, 1 arena-like zone? Instanced fighting in a base only? Duel? SG wars? Nobody know!
Now resume your clone of a Japanese company for the better and the worst and enjoy it! Without a guild, in EQ2, you might as well just hara kiri!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
All PVP is group based. L2 was not ballanced like original poster has said. Orc race in L2 was incomplete and added as an afterthought. GW is cookie cutter class game. End game everyone will be the same - the dye/weapon variation, but that game makes for an ok quake like pvp exerience.
boomix
Thanks for giving your opinion that PVP sucks. Now let me give my opinion and say that you suck and your opinion sucks. I really don't see how people who don't want PVP complain about PVP. If you don't want it don't join a PVP server!!!!! Obviously! Wow you are a rocket scientist no? So we conclude that if you don't want PVP to affect you, IT WON'T! Now all this complaint about PVP balancing is ridiculous. You stated that a priest or a buffer will suck in PVP. Wow another genius point. Can you imagine if everyone went to a Necro lets take for a example are the best PVP class. Imagine how many people would want a cleric in their groups or guilds. Each class has their benefits. I think the person that chooses to be a cleric would realize that in they can't do much solo in PVP but in group PVP raids or PVE they are priceless. It's basically a trade-off. That's like complaining, "Oh my cleric can't solo in PVE as well as that fighter over their!!! I'm a baby and my cleric should be able to nuke like a wizard and I should be able to solo like the best solo class." And lastly I want to point out that when in balancing PVP it would NOT change or alter PVE in any way. Let's say a wizard does 1,000 dmg to an NPC. They can easily change that to if they hit another real player it does 75% or whatever to make PVP more balanced.
In conclusion, if you don't like PVP don't join a PVP server. SIMPLE. There should be no complaints from people who don't like PVP. Except for maybe everyone leaving their wuss servers to join a real server. If you do enjoy PVP like I do, it's just more content and stuff to do at high-end gaming.
Double...
Personal attacks will get us no where. If you want to oppose someone's oppinion, oppose it; but there is no reason to insult anyone here.
I think PvP definately has its merits, and could be alot of fun in EQ2. The whole game is set around an epic battle of good versus evil, Queynos versus Freeport. I think this would mean alot of fun in PvP, but it would be tricky to pull off. It doesn't need to be rushed, for sure. The game is still in its early stages, and I think adding PvP would take away from the big issues at hand following release.
One thing I would like to see soon, though, is dueling. Dueling carries no risk, and balance isn't important. It is just two people having fun fighting each other. It doesn't seem to me that it would be hard to implement, so I am curious as to why it has not already been added.
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"There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who do not."
Actaully I disagree...I think PVP sucks with class based systems becuase classes make clear roles. When you have clear roles you have clear weaknesses and that means that your always going to have balance issues.
In a skill based system with a wide selection, however, this is not the case
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[Old] My City of Heroes Detailed Update List
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/450/loadthread/44836/setstart/1/loadclass/143
[OLD] - My Open Beta List and Review http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/584/loadthread/34685/setstart/1/loadclass/35
The problem i see with non-pvp games such as EQ2 is the whole repetitive AI killing, it gets old fast in pretty much every game to date, pvp adds a massive fun factor to the game, which will keep people entertained for years without having to add mass ammounts of content to it (the pvp element). With pvp in a game it can help take the weight off developers backs of having to constantly add new content to keep people playing, as people have other things to keep them occupied which are actually interesting.
Their's obviously a reason i played AO for two years and DAOC for a year and CoH for only a month. And it's pretty much due to the fact i had pvp to keep me entertained for large periods of time.
As to AO balance issues.. it used to be an exellent pvp system they had - pre expansions / boosters. But then it went down hill. Fight length was good in most cases (unless doc vs doc).
As it currently stands, it's pretty much set in stone that WoW will keep people playing for longer as opposed to EQ2 due to the pvp status of each game. Only time will tell though.
If EQ2 gets PvP before City of Heroes does, then I am going to buy EQ2. But if City of Villians come out before EQ2 implements PVP, im just going to play City of Villians.
City of Heroes is a decent game for about a month. It could have some replayability if they add some PvP.
EQ2 on the other hand isnt a decent game at all, and PvP would be the bare minimum I would even consider buying it.
pvp kicks ass! rock on for pvp!
Balance is bullshit. A true MMORPG shouldn't have it. If it wants to stay real. Life isn't balanced. Not everything is fair. You wanna play a wimpy priest...go ahead, but don't expect to live through a duel with a warrior.
PvP doesn't need balance...it needs less bitch ass complainers who whine that their skinny weak ass mage can't tank as well as the paladins.
If I'm a scout...I had better be pretty careful how I talk to a warrior...that is until I have 2 or 3 hundred feet between us. :-)
PvP doent' need balance it needs people with brains to play it correctly.
But evenyone today wants their character to win at all the time...they want fair.
Listen folks...not every class is the hero...most are the support...so don't go and think you can win every fight if your guy is wearing a dress.
You want fair...go play Rock, Paper, Sissors!
Thanks for giving your opinion that PVP sucks. Now let me give my opinion and say that you suck and your opinion sucks. I really don't see how people who don't want PVP complain about PVP. If you don't want it don't join a PVP server!!!!! Obviously! Wow you are a rocket scientist no? So we conclude that if you don't want PVP to affect you, IT WON'T! Now all this complaint about PVP balancing is ridiculous. You stated that a priest or a buffer will suck in PVP. Wow another genius point. Can you imagine if everyone went to a Necro lets take for a example are the best PVP class. Imagine how many people would want a cleric in their groups or guilds. Each class has their benefits. I think the person that chooses to be a cleric would realize that in they can't do much solo in PVP but in group PVP raids or PVE they are priceless. It's basically a trade-off. That's like complaining, "Oh my cleric can't solo in PVE as well as that fighter over their!!! I'm a baby and my cleric should be able to nuke like a wizard and I should be able to solo like the best solo class." And lastly I want to point out that when in balancing PVP it would NOT change or alter PVE in any way. Let's say a wizard does 1,000 dmg to an NPC. They can easily change that to if they hit another real player it does 75% or whatever to make PVP more balanced.
In conclusion, if you don't like PVP don't join a PVP server. SIMPLE. There should be no complaints from people who don't like PVP. Except for maybe everyone leaving their wuss servers to join a real server. If you do enjoy PVP like I do, it's just more content and stuff to do at high-end gaming.
If the original poster's main complaint about PvP is the need for class balancing, then even if they don't join the PvP server, they will still be effected by the class balancing that is necessary, unless it is only implemented on the PvP server. (which is pretty unlikely) It would be great if they would do things like only have the changes implemented when fighting another player, but most game developers don't bother with doing it that way, they just make changes to the class across the board. If the Everquest II developers would be willing to make balances that really did only effect PvP players on their server that would be great, but I don't think I've ever seen a game that has implemented it in this way.