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They're Really Sticking with No Sub, Eh?
PhelimReagh
Member UncommonPosts: 682
I know that Guild Wars has been relatively successful with it's "buy the box and that's it" strategy. As such, Arena.net seems to be content to go down that same road: pay something akin to $60 for the box and you're done paying.
But why? Many gamers would be more than happy to pay a lower price for the box and continue to shell out cash on a monthly basis for a quality game.
After all, a significant box price is a barrier-to-entry for a subset of players, espeically those currently heavily invested in other MMOs. The MMO world today is different than it was 5-10 years ago. People are, by-and-large, playing WoW, and have time, effort and friendships invested there. WoW is bringing the new customers to the MMO market and making the genre somewhat "respectable". The reality is that, to succeed, any new MMO is going to have do peel a considerable chunk of those players away from WoW. As such, the lower the barrier-to-entry of your game, the more likely you'll be able to get WoW players to give your game a try.
No new MMO is going to pull a new MMO market out of thin air. So new MMOs today need to have low barriers-to-entry to really succeed a pull players away from existing games. A significantly high single box price is such a barrier, and a totally unnecessary one given that millions are content paying a subscription. Given that they are no doubt in the realm of $100 million in development costs, you have to wonder if the potential market for box sales only to make this is a long-term win actually exists. Will 3-5 million people really pay for the box? It'll probably be less than a single year sub to Runescape, but $5/month is far more palatable than $60 up front.
To a consumer like me, no subscription means less revenue for the game. Less revenue means less future content, fewer devs, less customer support, etc. Arena.net is basically saying: This is pretty much it once you buy the box. Not much more to look forward to down the road.
Please don't get me wrong: I am all-of-a-sudden excited about Guild Wars 2 (didn't really like the orginal, though). I don't want to knock it. But this revenue model just seems all sorts of wrong and seems almost oblivious to the MMO market as it exists today.
If I like a game, I'll play it for years and be happy to shell out a monthly sub. Hell, like a lot of people I've paid for WoWs box and expansions, as well as $15/month for quite a while. So rather than charge $60 for the box, charge me $20 for the box and $5/ month and you'll make that $60 in less than a year, and have a gravy train for the future; gravy that I'm quite happy to send every month if the game is as good as GW2 is looking and sounding.
Comments
I love b2p games and thats all i have to say about the matter really....
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
The biggest flaw with your argument is that Arena.net has proven themselves devoted to GW over the past 5 years, even now running a major event to pave the way for GW2. There's an update/balance tweak almost every month, they do the holiday bashes and so on. If they hadn't already demonstrated their dedication, I would agree with you, but their track record makes me feel confident that GW2 will be fine and supported for years to come.
A higher box price is less of a barrier than a subscription to many...
A lot of gamers refuse to or cannot play MMOs on the grounds of the monthly sub. It's also a 'fire and forget' thing, once you have the box there's no hassle whereas with a sub there's a recurring question of having the money. I have no problems with a subscription model but A-net wants to make its game available to even the people who do have problems with subscriptions for whatever reason.
Not having a sub fee is what sells the game and what sold it the first time. People can play 2 MMos for the price of 1 now, stop playing and then jump back into the game anytime they want. They had the same content any normal MMO had for holidays, I don't see why they wouldn't continue doing that again for GW2. This model sets them apart and they will probably work at selling things like sex changes/race changes or something from the stores to continue revenue.
They released expansions pretty regularly and this also generated revenue. So I guess on the plus side it encourages them to work harder and get fully working expansions out sooner.
To answer, the main selling point for GW1 was that they had no monthly model. Once you add a monthly model they become like another MMO. So they provide the same services, w/o forcing people to pay the money each month. Not everyone wants to pay for 2 MMOs or even 1 a month. However a single investment is worth it. Plus now people who do play more than 1 can play this to have them take a break from their other MMO.
-Maltos-
First of all, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Them just selling boxes is like their trademark and how can you stray from that when many others from the first game purchased, played and devoted much of their time to Guild Wars with this. It's practically expected.
If they switch to subs, they would completely ruin their fan-base and they would end up hurting in the end when they are sharing the same pie as all other popular MMO's with subs.
Honestly, after Guild Wars, how could you switch when you built up this community through this "box only purchase" foundation?
Personally I wouldn't mind paying a subscription.
Just not a cash shop, please no.
[QUOTE]WoW is bringing the new customers to the MMO market and making the genre somewhat "respectable". The reality is that, to succeed, any new MMO is going to have do peel a considerable chunk of those players away from WoW. As such, the lower the barrier-to-entry of your game, the more likely you'll be able to get WoW players to give your game a try.[/QUOTE]
WoW -brought- the new customers to the mmo market, their turnover rate of the "New-Age" Mmo gamer is well past its pinnacle. You really should edit the first sentence , unless your goal is sarcasim. Perhaps you are attempting to imply that on a business basis , WoW ( Blizzard ) made the MMO market "respectable" ... as in profitable and paved the way for others? You would be infinitely wrong on that point as well, so I am not really sure what you mean by " [...] and making the genre somewhat "respectable " " Blizzards Mmo has done alot for the MMO market, very little of it is good... and the masses of its "New-Age" mmo gamers it has brought into the market only serve as the root cause of whats wrong with the market today. Old School, and normal gamers... are gamers, we play games... we don't worry about a subscription or a box fee. It's our hobby .. and like any hobby we support it. If you can't afford to smoke ... stop smoking ; and if you can't afford to purchase a new game... then stop playing games.
That should pretty much sum it up, Its far to easy to go into a old school rant about the new generation of gamers. There really is nothing about the new generation that I like....
I'm sure they will have a shop that is very similar to Guild Wars.
Seriously the OP has no clue what made or makes GW successful, stop going with the "people won't leave WoW threads"
I play all ghame
Honestly I am trying to follow your logic here, but I don't think I can.
Every single new MMO I have seen come out on the market in the last decade usually has a 49.99 price tag.
Few have a 39.99 and even less a 29.99.
Blizzard not only charges 49.99 for the initial game at launch but 49.99 for every additional expansion pack since. As does every mainstream MMO like EQ2 and LotRO on down the line, AoC is about to launch an expansion and I bet it starts a 49.99 and if not 39.99.
So you are complaining that Arenanet wants you to pay 59.99 for a box (10 bucks more than the average new MMO) and you will never be asked to pay another dime for life?
WoW without any expansion cost you 214.88 for a year of play. 49.99 for vanilla wow on release and 164.89 for 11 months.
Will cost you 179.88 every year after that and add 49.99 to that total everytime an expansion has released.
If you played wow since the release.
65 months = 974.35 (I excluded your free month)
+
Game and 2 expansion at 49.99 = 149.97
= 1124.32
SO
$1124.32 is what a wow gamer has spent on world of warcraft if they have played since release give or take.
As opposed to
$59.99 for GW2
Sign me up for GW2 please.
Kind of funny but the OP kind of reminds me just bad negotiating. If the game is as great as it sounds and they are only charging box prices while making it more persistent than their predecessor, why would you ever talk up the price?
"Hey, I got this great game, an MMO for only $50.00 one time payment, no subscription."
"Well, I heard this game was going to be great, how about I just pay $20 but $5 per month for the next 5 years. You'll make more money out of me, I swear"
Maybe my imagination is a little twisted, I don't know lol.
well see i think thats where you are wrong thats one of the main reasons ppl flock to it at least i know for myself and others who have gw the fact that they charge a full prrice and thats it is alot more attractive to me then to continue paying for a product i already bought its why i avoided wow for so long
and even though you may think that means less content youd be incorrect there too hell they still up date the original maybe its not the most amazing content ever but it is content hell i find myself bored ive always got something i can do with one of them and the fact i dont have to pay attention to sub fees makes it even better
Sounds to me like someone who isn't very familiar with Arenanet and how they run. I've had a couple subs to "newer" games in the last two years and they were nowhere near as quick and efficient in fixes, didn't put nearly as much effort into special and holiday events and don't update nearly as often. Not to mention the same type of involvement by the CR's in forums and all out of game formats. And GW's updates were streaming - so it's been up and playable for all of probably something like 12 hours in five years, and most of those were in one unusual instance.
ANet knows what they're doing and to compare them to any ol' f2p game company is rediculous. And, they have awards and numbers from their first couple years to prove it. Plus, they don't need to pull new players from WoW or any other game. There are plenty playing GW along with all those that have been playing WoW, other games or nothing at all just waiting for GW2 to release...
My guess is that they will offer some sort of micro transactions in order to bring in some extra revenue.
They already have it with the Original Guild Wars so I don't see why they wouldn't do it wiht GW2 as well.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't think GW2 will be as cheep as GW1..
I expect that there could be a lot more DLC in GW2..... imagine that there will be a new zone every month... at the cost of a few dollars... Or just adventures to buy like in D&D online... or a new expansion pack every 6 month.
Mainting a wide open world is more expensive then the previous GW game of instanced zones, so there will be more cost involved and the company needs to make more money...
But i think GW2 will stay a lot cheeper even when you buy all additional content , than any itemshop game or P2P game... and much of the extra content would just be optional.
((This is my opinion based on my assumptions and nothing else but a possible truth))
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I've noticed there seems to be a growing trend for MMO gamers to want to pay more to play their games. They seem to be under the naive impression that the more money they fork over the more content they'll get in return when the devs would just pocket it as more profit...
It's like the Blizzard cash shop thing, they don't need more money for content, it's obvious that they're just pocketing it, yet there's a whole legion of players out there now who seem willing to bend over for them because they think more money = more content. It's a recurring defense I've seen used when players criticise Blizzard.
Now it seems someone wants A-Net to do the same...? O_o
No, I think the growing trend is that players want more content than offered or different content than offered and are willing to pay extra for it. The danger is that developers under develop their game and that they instead offer a complete game a la carte.
but if they still offer a complete game but offer extras then all that does is go back to rmt or not rmt argument.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
True, in that regard it'll be interesting to see how the GW2 store will pan out. If it's things like GW1 had then it should be fine since it was all very minor things or small add-on packs, I just hope we don't see the game come to depend on it in some form.
Yeah but at the same time nothing in GW RMT is needed.
They give you plenty of storage space for free, yeah you can buy more, and honestly if you paid 9.99 for 4 months to get 1 storage pane a month, that would be well worth it, and honestly still cheaper than a 14.99 sub fee.
The storage is shared across all characters which is nice, because you do not have to depend on others to trade items to your other toons who may rip you off.
They also sell skill packs for PvP characters only, all of which can be gained normally through the game, so they aren't required, they just speed things up. They are also reasonably priced at 9.99 i think maybe 14.99 I am not sure. When you think about it unlocking every skill and elite skill though for an entire campain for your pvp toons and heroes. It is still a nice purchase if you have the money, and you are getting nothing more than what everyone else can get for free with a little extra time invested.
Then they sell costumes, which do nothing but have a cosmetic effect. Anet knows how to run an effective online store. It does help them generate a little extra profit to keep things going.
Compared to other f2p mmos, GW1 is the only RMT store I have seen get it right.
EDIT - Personal comparison, I have been playing GW since release, and still have not purchased a single storage pane.
I did however buy the 3 PvP pack of skills, and maintain 1 pvp character that I constantly delete and remake depending on what I feel like playing. Everything else I do is PvE related and I still gain and cap the skills as intended on those characters. I have also never bought a costume.
I can kind of understand why someone would be wary of no sub fee with GW2 if they didn't like the first GW. It is a misassociation, but I can see someone thinking the game would have been better if there was a sub and more time put in.
I did not like GW1. It had nothing to do with the pricing model. I just didn't like the gameplay, how it was setup. It didn't feel like a MMO to me, and well, they said it wasn't a true MMO, heh. I know there was plenty of content added, so I didn't dislike the game because the game was neglected since their was no sub fee.
This could translate over to GW2 is what people might fear. The thing is it is suppose to be a different kind of a game, a true mmo, a world, just with the same pricing model, which is why I am going to try GW2. The pricing plan is really irrelevant to me as long as I enjoy the gameplay.
Of course the only thing I hope isn't similar to the first is just making a character at max level. I know a lot of people liked that, but it just kind of ruined immersion for me, and leveling up instanced, just not my thing. If they don't have that, it might drive away people who liked it in the first GW. Can't please everyone, hehe.
I think they answered that point actually. Pretty sure they said that they won't have the ability to create max PvP characters but rather PvE characters all scale to the same level when in PvP. Something like that anyway, I can't remember the exact article.
I don't understand how no sub fee could be seen as a bad thing. I have never seen a full priced game drive someone away from playing a game. But I see subscriptions drive people away from playing a game all the time.
More power to ANet for keeping out subscription fees.
It's a catch 22.
One of the main thing many players of GW1 like is the fact that the leveling process is instanced. I played GW since release and also played wow since release so this will make a good comparison.
In GW1 you get to go out and do what you enjoy which is level and play with friends without the annoyances of other players.
In the first month alone of wow, and every month after I couldn't tell you how many times some random douchebag walked up to me and asked me for money, or an item. I also couldn't tell you how many times I actually had to cut OFF my chat windows because I almost vommited in my mouth from chuck norris jokes and anal rape jokes in chat.
Wanna take a guess how many times this has happned to me in GW1.... Zero.
I also couldn't tell you how many times in my 5 1/2 years of playing wow some random asshat didn't walk up and try to steal a kill from me and jack my loot, or try to push me out of a leveling spot because they could kill something faster due to their class.
Want to know how many times this has happened to me in GW1.... Zero.
For some reason a lot of people like these stupid things to happen to them on a regular basis, I am just not one of those players. When I go out to handle progression of my character, I would rather do it with 7 people I know and are competant than have 1000 players able to walk by and ruin my time spent in game.
GW1 handles those annoyances very well, and the players of GW1 praise them for it.
It has social interaction, every town and city is slap full of players to converse or trade with. Cities are for bs socialization, leveling zones and missions are for handling business. Which is how it should be.
I have to agree with you. Players praise traditional mmo's for having a huge community but it seems that huge community can also be at the core of what ruins mmo's.
I liked the going out in one party and experiencing a huge world without having my immersion ruined by players dancing around me in their underwear or jumping up and down on mailboxes.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo