Normally invisible walls really bother me yet in FFXI, which uses them extensively, it's never really bothered me at all. It doesn't feel like they're inhibiting your freedom as a player, instead they're preventing you from doing things that would break the role-play side of things.
It's like if you come across a river... in real life you'd look for a bridge, but in games players just swim through even though it's completely unrealistic. In FFXI the invisible walls only prevent you from doing things out of character like jumping in the river when any sensible person would use the bridge. It's the same for jumping off cliffs. I imagine it'll be the same in FFXIV.
Believe me it doesn't feel restricting when you spend a little while with the game. It makes the world feel a hell of a lot more realistic as all the players are doing things normally rather than jumping around.
As for the voices... from what I've heard so far they're using an archaic english accent (i.e. FFXII style). Not sure if that'll be used throughout the game though...
Normally invisible walls really bother me yet in FFXI, which uses them extensively, it's never really bothered me at all. It doesn't feel like they're inhibiting your freedom as a player, instead they're preventing you from doing things that would break the role-play side of things.
The implementation is the most important thing. If we think about a game like WoW, it would feel extremely limiting if you couldn't jump or swim there.
But that game was made with jumping and swimming in mind from the start. The same way, FFXIV (and XI) are being made with the fact in mind that you won't jump nor swim.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Normally invisible walls really bother me yet in FFXI, which uses them extensively, it's never really bothered me at all. It doesn't feel like they're inhibiting your freedom as a player, instead they're preventing you from doing things that would break the role-play side of things.
The implementation is the most important thing. If we think about a game like WoW, it would feel extremely limiting if you couldn't jump or swim there.
But that game was made with jumping and swimming in mind from the start. The same way, FFXIV (and XI) are being made with the fact in mind that you won't jump nor swim.
Originally posted by Disdena Originally posted by shokero
It just doesn't feel right, they should have it so if im not careful enough I'll fall over to my death, which makes it more realistic, in a fanatasy game.
...you weren't on the EQ design team, by any chance? I've always wondered who thought it would be a brilliant idea to put a newbie city in the treetops with no railings, so that a misstep means 700 damage and a small crater with your corpse in the middle.
Hahaha i died so many times from that lol. took forever to find my body.
The implementation is the most important thing. If we think about a game like WoW, it would feel extremely limiting if you couldn't jump or swim there.
But that game was made with jumping and swimming in mind from the start. The same way, FFXIV (and XI) are being made with the fact in mind that you won't jump nor swim.
So, there won't be any bodies of water in the game? There won't be any low obstacles or minor differences in elevation?
What do you mean by "a game like WoW?"
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So, there won't be any bodies of water in the game? There won't be any low obstacles or minor differences in elevation?
What do you mean by "a game like WoW?"
There will be, but they won't hinder your experience.
Minor differences in elevation are fine. You can drop off those. After it gets high enough, you can't.
A game with jumping and swimming. If we think of WoW and it's world, it would feel extremely limiting to not be able to jump or swim. Or that's at least what I think.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Grr this sucks. i think more mmos should try to implement more "verticalness (or verticality?)" to their game world. I like how Bllizzard did it with Northrend. You got a lot of steep goodness in their design of the cliffs, mountains, etc. Seriously, there is no excuse to have invisible walls that obvious. At least implement something in game to explain invisible walls if that were the case. I hated Aion for this.
P.S...to a lot of people the explorability (lol is that a word?) of a world is very much part of the gameplay. Gameplay isn't all just fighting mobs and gaining phat lewts. Some people take it slower and like to read the lore and just soak in the world. To not be able to jump over a cliff is a disappointing immersion killer.
Grr this sucks. i think more mmos should try to implement more "verticalness (or verticality?)" to their game world. I like how Bllizzard did it with Northrend. You got a lot of steep goodness in their design of the cliffs, mountains, etc. Seriously, there is no excuse to have invisible walls that obvious. At least implement something in game to explain invisible walls if that were the case. I hated Aion for this.
P.S...to a lot of people the explorability (lol is that a word?) of a world is very much part of the gameplay. Gameplay isn't all just fighting mobs and gaining phat lewts. Some people take it slower and like to read the lore and just soak in the world. To not be able to jump over a cliff is a disappointing immersion killer.
Oho, oho, let me tell you the excuse: Limited budget. Or time, too, actually.
Also, explorability != immersion. "Explorability is important, but not being able to jump off a cliff is immersion killer."
What's your point there? immersion is not part of the gameplay, and not being able to jump off a cliff doesn't mean there's no exploration.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Normally invisible walls really bother me yet in FFXI, which uses them extensively, it's never really bothered me at all. It doesn't feel like they're inhibiting your freedom as a player, instead they're preventing you from doing things that would break the role-play side of things.
It's like if you come across a river... in real life you'd look for a bridge, but in games players just swim through even though it's completely unrealistic. In FFXI the invisible walls only prevent you from doing things out of character like jumping in the river when any sensible person would use the bridge. It's the same for jumping off cliffs. I imagine it'll be the same in FFXIV.
Believe me it doesn't feel restricting when you spend a little while with the game. It makes the world feel a hell of a lot more realistic as all the players are doing things normally rather than jumping around.
As for the voices... from what I've heard so far they're using an archaic english accent (i.e. FFXII style). Not sure if that'll be used throughout the game though...
There are other ways to implement this "Normalcy" in games and for developers to push players to behave normally relative to the real world. I'll take your river as an example. If they want people to go find a bridge, they can do one or some of several things:
1) Make swimming in the river dangerous or frustrating by inserting a lot agressive mobs like piranhas.
2) Make it so that a player uses a lot of endurance by swimming, and that if the endurance falls to zero you begin to lose life.
Regardless, this is a fantasy game. For players to attempt "great and idiotic feats" by jumping over a cliff isn't too far fetched. Plus in real life you only have one life, unless you're a feline.
Grr this sucks. i think more mmos should try to implement more "verticalness (or verticality?)" to their game world. I like how Bllizzard did it with Northrend. You got a lot of steep goodness in their design of the cliffs, mountains, etc. Seriously, there is no excuse to have invisible walls that obvious. At least implement something in game to explain invisible walls if that were the case. I hated Aion for this.
P.S...to a lot of people the explorability (lol is that a word?) of a world is very much part of the gameplay. Gameplay isn't all just fighting mobs and gaining phat lewts. Some people take it slower and like to read the lore and just soak in the world. To not be able to jump over a cliff is a disappointing immersion killer.
Oho, oho, let me tell you the excuse: Limited budget. Or time, too, actually.
Also, explorability != immersion. "Explorability is important, but not being able to jump off a cliff is immersion killer."
What's your point there? immersion is not part of the gameplay, and not being able to jump off a cliff doesn't mean there's no exploration.
Ok I guess it really depends on the type of cliffs they put invisible walls on. I guess if it's at the end of the map/zone, they would need some type of boundary to limit players from going beyond it. WoW, for example, used hills and mountains to act as boundaries. I guess it would be ok if these "unjumpable" cliffs are at the boundary of a zone. However if I'm in the center of a zone and I can't jump off it, that is truely an explorability killer.
Regardless, this is a fantasy game. For players to attempt "great and idiotic feats" by jumping over a cliff isn't too far fetched. Plus in real life you only have one life, unless you're a feline.
Now this is just me, but all the players attempting "great and idiotic feats" is just as much of an immersion killer if not more.
Like you give them limitless character customization, they make a 2ft tall pink Obama with huge tits and call it LAdYgAgA95. Then they run around jumping like rabbits and falling off a cliff FOR LULZ.
Yeah, fantasy world indeed. The immersion is saved!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Ok I guess it really depends on the type of cliffs they put invisible walls on. I guess if it's at the end of the map/zone, they would need some type of boundary to limit players from going beyond it. WoW, for example, used hills and mountains to act as boundaries. I guess it would be ok if these "unjumpable" cliffs are at the boundary of a zone. However if I'm in the center of a zone and I can't jump off it, that is truely an explorability killer.
Yes, like I said before they won't limit the exploration on purpose just because there's no jumping feature. They know the limitations of the engine, and work around them.
In FFXI you could go almost everywhere without limitations, aside from when the devs wanted you to use a certain path to reach some special area. There was no need to jump 99,99% of the time (few areas had some glitches at certain points) and well, I had a great time exploring the continents in that game.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Regardless, this is a fantasy game. For players to attempt "great and idiotic feats" by jumping over a cliff isn't too far fetched. Plus in real life you only have one life, unless you're a feline.
Now this is just me, but all the players attempting "great and idiotic feats" is just as much of an immersion killer if not more.
Like you give them limitless character customization, they make a 2ft tall pink Obama with huge tits and call it LAdYgAgA95. Then they run around jumping like rabbits and falling off a cliff FOR LULZ.
Yeah, fantasy world indeed. The immersion is saved!
Word
Some people seems to be very narrow minded in how a world/game should be design.
Being able to jump off a cliff = imersion killer... Give me a break. Don't play if you don't like it!
Yes, like I said before they won't limit the exploration on purpose just because there's no jumping feature. They know the limitations of the engine, and work around them.
They shouldn't be using an engine with these limitations. This IS 2010, after all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yes, like I said before they won't limit the exploration on purpose just because there's no jumping feature. They know the limitations of the engine, and work around them.
They shouldn't be using an engine with these limitations. This IS 2010, after all.
Yep, yep... Metal Gear Solid series suck because the engine doesn't allow for jumping...
Don't even mention Resident Evil 5...
All the games should be doing everything or they won't succeed. Be innovative (but still keep every good side of every previous MMO!), have good graphics, have good immersion, make some coffee..
I will keep saying this as long as I need to: Resources are limited. Want something? Sacrifice something else.
I'm sorry that I'm trying to sound logical here.. we can continue the argument from a "limitless resources" situation if you want to.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Oh, did you just bring realism to the topic? Uhm, yeah...!
You build a fantasy world by adding to reality, not by taking away from it.
Frankly, you are less critical of this game than others. I wonder if you can see that.
Hell yes. No sane person would fall of a cliff in real life, and because in game there's no severe consequences for doing so, only by taking away the possibility to fall of a cliff you can make it realistic. Otherwise every player would be doing unrealistic things, such as jumping off a cliff.
Realize that realism works in many ways.
And don't worry, I can see it myself. Criticism is good. Great debates ensue from that.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Regardless, this is a fantasy game. For players to attempt "great and idiotic feats" by jumping over a cliff isn't too far fetched. Plus in real life you only have one life, unless you're a feline.
Now this is just me, but all the players attempting "great and idiotic feats" is just as much of an immersion killer if not more.
Like you give them limitless character customization, they make a 2ft tall pink Obama with huge tits and call it LAdYgAgA95. Then they run around jumping like rabbits and falling off a cliff FOR LULZ.
Yeah, fantasy world indeed. The immersion is saved!
Yeah I agree with you on that. The evil that comes with freedom in these games is that you get those who try to be funny, silly, insulting, etc... and it does break immersion from a lore or gameworld perspective. I'm with you on that.
However, I do feel that there are legitimate fantasy justification for jumping off huge cliffs. Lolz. That just sounds weird, but what if you're role playing a carefree adventurer who likes to seek well adventures. Have you seen the movie Avatar?? There were a lot of jumping of great heights---for fun--- in that film. You see them jumping off giant trees just for the thrill of it. Haha..sorry if this is a spoiler to some.
On a side note, is it just me or do the "elves" in Avatar look a lot like those in FFXI and FFXIV.
Yeah I agree with you on that. The evil that comes with freedom in these games is that you get those to try to be funny, silly, insulting, etc... and it does break immersion from a lore or gameworld perspective. I'm with you on that.
However, I do feel that there are legitimate fantasy justification for jumping off huge cliffs. Lolz. That just sounds weird, but what if you're role playing a carefree adventuring who likes to seek well adventures. Have you seen the movie Avatar?? There were a lot of jumping of great heights---for fun--- in that film. You see them jumping off giant trees just for the thrill of it. Haha..sorry if this is a spoiler to some.
Yeah, but it really depends on what kind of fantasy world we're talking about.
FFXIV tries to be more "realistic" than cartoonish.. the world isn't filled with cities in the sky or, well... if you've seen the first GW2 trailer, there's no cities like that. We could really see the kind of cities of FFXIV in real life too.
There's no angels that can fly, or jedi's. All the races are at least somehow humanoid.
In that kind of game, I think limitations serve as a way to keep the immersion, and not destroy it.
It's not the same way for every type of fantasy game there is, but I just feel it fits this particular one.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
It just doesn't feel right, they should have it so if im not careful enough I'll fall over to my death, which makes it more realistic, in a fanatasy game.
...you weren't on the EQ design team, by any chance? I've always wondered who thought it would be a brilliant idea to put a newbie city in the treetops with no railings, so that a misstep means 700 damage and a small crater with your corpse in the middle.
This is what's wrong with most MMO's. People expect their hands to be held. There should be a great deal of throught put in to what features make gameplay less fun(Blizzard's philosophy), but without removing all the risk. Risk makes the rewards all the sweeter when achieved.
_________________________________________
Genetics loads the gun; lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Yes, like I said before they won't limit the exploration on purpose just because there's no jumping feature. They know the limitations of the engine, and work around them.
They shouldn't be using an engine with these limitations. This IS 2010, after all.
Yep, yep... Metal Gear Solid series suck because the engine doesn't allow for jumping...
It's a negative.
BTW, I never said FFXIV would suck.
Don't even mention Resident Evil 5...
Never played it. No jumping? In a real world setting? That's a flaw, for sure.
All the games should be doing everything or they won't succeed. Be innovative (but still keep every good side of every previous MMO!), have good graphics, have good immersion, make some coffee..
There you go, getting all irrational.
I will keep saying this as long as I need to: Resources are limited. Want something? Sacrifice something else.
Voice acting.
Resources were limited for WoW, too.
I'm sorry that I'm trying to sound logical here..
I don't think you are trying very hard when it comes to this game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Comments
Normally invisible walls really bother me yet in FFXI, which uses them extensively, it's never really bothered me at all. It doesn't feel like they're inhibiting your freedom as a player, instead they're preventing you from doing things that would break the role-play side of things.
It's like if you come across a river... in real life you'd look for a bridge, but in games players just swim through even though it's completely unrealistic. In FFXI the invisible walls only prevent you from doing things out of character like jumping in the river when any sensible person would use the bridge. It's the same for jumping off cliffs. I imagine it'll be the same in FFXIV.
Believe me it doesn't feel restricting when you spend a little while with the game. It makes the world feel a hell of a lot more realistic as all the players are doing things normally rather than jumping around.
As for the voices... from what I've heard so far they're using an archaic english accent (i.e. FFXII style). Not sure if that'll be used throughout the game though...
The implementation is the most important thing. If we think about a game like WoW, it would feel extremely limiting if you couldn't jump or swim there.
But that game was made with jumping and swimming in mind from the start. The same way, FFXIV (and XI) are being made with the fact in mind that you won't jump nor swim.
Exactly.
Hahaha i died so many times from that lol. took forever to find my body.
So, there won't be any bodies of water in the game? There won't be any low obstacles or minor differences in elevation?
What do you mean by "a game like WoW?"
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There will be, but they won't hinder your experience.
Minor differences in elevation are fine. You can drop off those. After it gets high enough, you can't.
A game with jumping and swimming. If we think of WoW and it's world, it would feel extremely limiting to not be able to jump or swim. Or that's at least what I think.
Grr this sucks. i think more mmos should try to implement more "verticalness (or verticality?)" to their game world. I like how Bllizzard did it with Northrend. You got a lot of steep goodness in their design of the cliffs, mountains, etc. Seriously, there is no excuse to have invisible walls that obvious. At least implement something in game to explain invisible walls if that were the case. I hated Aion for this.
P.S...to a lot of people the explorability (lol is that a word?) of a world is very much part of the gameplay. Gameplay isn't all just fighting mobs and gaining phat lewts. Some people take it slower and like to read the lore and just soak in the world. To not be able to jump over a cliff is a disappointing immersion killer.
Oho, oho, let me tell you the excuse: Limited budget. Or time, too, actually.
Also, explorability != immersion. "Explorability is important, but not being able to jump off a cliff is immersion killer."
What's your point there? immersion is not part of the gameplay, and not being able to jump off a cliff doesn't mean there's no exploration.
There are other ways to implement this "Normalcy" in games and for developers to push players to behave normally relative to the real world. I'll take your river as an example. If they want people to go find a bridge, they can do one or some of several things:
1) Make swimming in the river dangerous or frustrating by inserting a lot agressive mobs like piranhas.
2) Make it so that a player uses a lot of endurance by swimming, and that if the endurance falls to zero you begin to lose life.
Regardless, this is a fantasy game. For players to attempt "great and idiotic feats" by jumping over a cliff isn't too far fetched. Plus in real life you only have one life, unless you're a feline.
Ok I guess it really depends on the type of cliffs they put invisible walls on. I guess if it's at the end of the map/zone, they would need some type of boundary to limit players from going beyond it. WoW, for example, used hills and mountains to act as boundaries. I guess it would be ok if these "unjumpable" cliffs are at the boundary of a zone. However if I'm in the center of a zone and I can't jump off it, that is truely an explorability killer.
Now this is just me, but all the players attempting "great and idiotic feats" is just as much of an immersion killer if not more.
Like you give them limitless character customization, they make a 2ft tall pink Obama with huge tits and call it LAdYgAgA95. Then they run around jumping like rabbits and falling off a cliff FOR LULZ.
Yeah, fantasy world indeed. The immersion is saved!
Yes, like I said before they won't limit the exploration on purpose just because there's no jumping feature. They know the limitations of the engine, and work around them.
In FFXI you could go almost everywhere without limitations, aside from when the devs wanted you to use a certain path to reach some special area. There was no need to jump 99,99% of the time (few areas had some glitches at certain points) and well, I had a great time exploring the continents in that game.
Word
Some people seems to be very narrow minded in how a world/game should be design.
Being able to jump off a cliff = imersion killer... Give me a break. Don't play if you don't like it!
The plaintive cry of the .......
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Sometimes, limitations serve as a way to save the immersion.
I'm not saying this particular case is one of those times, but don't rule out the possibility.
Pathetic...
Oh, did you just bring realism to the topic? Uhm, yeah...!
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You build a fantasy world by adding to reality, not by taking away from it.
Frankly, you are less critical of this game than others. I wonder if you can see that.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yep, yep... Metal Gear Solid series suck because the engine doesn't allow for jumping...
Don't even mention Resident Evil 5...
All the games should be doing everything or they won't succeed. Be innovative (but still keep every good side of every previous MMO!), have good graphics, have good immersion, make some coffee..
I will keep saying this as long as I need to: Resources are limited. Want something? Sacrifice something else.
I'm sorry that I'm trying to sound logical here.. we can continue the argument from a "limitless resources" situation if you want to.
Hell yes. No sane person would fall of a cliff in real life, and because in game there's no severe consequences for doing so, only by taking away the possibility to fall of a cliff you can make it realistic. Otherwise every player would be doing unrealistic things, such as jumping off a cliff.
Realize that realism works in many ways.
And don't worry, I can see it myself. Criticism is good. Great debates ensue from that.
Yeah I agree with you on that. The evil that comes with freedom in these games is that you get those who try to be funny, silly, insulting, etc... and it does break immersion from a lore or gameworld perspective. I'm with you on that.
However, I do feel that there are legitimate fantasy justification for jumping off huge cliffs. Lolz. That just sounds weird, but what if you're role playing a carefree adventurer who likes to seek well adventures. Have you seen the movie Avatar?? There were a lot of jumping of great heights---for fun--- in that film. You see them jumping off giant trees just for the thrill of it. Haha..sorry if this is a spoiler to some.
On a side note, is it just me or do the "elves" in Avatar look a lot like those in FFXI and FFXIV.
Yeah, but it really depends on what kind of fantasy world we're talking about.
FFXIV tries to be more "realistic" than cartoonish.. the world isn't filled with cities in the sky or, well... if you've seen the first GW2 trailer, there's no cities like that. We could really see the kind of cities of FFXIV in real life too.
There's no angels that can fly, or jedi's. All the races are at least somehow humanoid.
In that kind of game, I think limitations serve as a way to keep the immersion, and not destroy it.
It's not the same way for every type of fantasy game there is, but I just feel it fits this particular one.
This is what's wrong with most MMO's. People expect their hands to be held. There should be a great deal of throught put in to what features make gameplay less fun(Blizzard's philosophy), but without removing all the risk. Risk makes the rewards all the sweeter when achieved.
_________________________________________
Genetics loads the gun; lifestyle pulls the trigger.
I don't think you are trying very hard when it comes to this game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2