What the developers of MMO games fail to understand is that people want something new. Playing the same typ of game with a new skin is not good enough for most people. Recent failed projects show this, like Warhammer online, Champions online, Age of Conan and Aion etc etc.
They need to make some core changes like do away with classes, skip the fractions, no more instancing that have done nothing but ruin games like AoC for example. Developers should just sit down and try to create something new.
MMOs today are just like alot of other games such as SKATE 1,2,3, NHL 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 etc, UFC Undisputed 1,2 and COD 1,2. You get an updated version of a game you have allready played with some nice new fetures. And while that might work on the games above it dose not work in the MMO industry today, if developers want to make the next big thing they will have to come up with something new.
I personaly think its time for developers to start making new games instead of reselling old once with some new features.
Mythic was bank rolled by EA, who pushed the game out of the gate before release, You are correct in your statement, but from early on, EA was calling the shots. Taking out the cities, and removing classes, etc etc, this was all EA. I wish Mythic would have just held off another year or however long it took for them to finish it and not get in bed with EA.
But good post Muhaloq!
No they weren't pushed by EA, in fact they delayed the game one or two times and they couldn't afford to delay it anymore, then the game was released and it was full of bugs and problems.
slpr: Thanks for posting this.
Hrica: Reading made up stories from another forum poster does not make something true. I've said this many many times already, but I'll say it again.
I was a beta tester for WAR during the whole closed testing phase. Mythic was running out of money before EA came into the picture and was going to have to either release the game even more unfinished than they did, or cancel it entirely.
State of WAR at release if there was no EA involvment: No cities at all, 7 or 8 finished classes on each side, horribly unbalanced PvP, no capture points in open world PvP, no keeps.
After EA came into the picture development really picked up and they were able to delay the release again to add more content to the game and try to finish as much as they could in the time frame they had set for themselves.
There was no "taking out" of the other main cities, they were never in the game to begin with. There was also never a slayer class in the game. The only thing that was actually "taken out" was the Chopper class, which was bad the way it was in beta.
Now, as to your last statement of delaying the release another year. Mythic could not have done this without more money and none of us know the internal discussions at EA or Mythic as to why they didn't give the game more time to develope, the only thing I can say for sure is without EA, WAR would have completely failed.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Mythic was bank rolled by EA, who pushed the game out of the gate before release, You are correct in your statement, but from early on, EA was calling the shots. Taking out the cities, and removing classes, etc etc, this was all EA. I wish Mythic would have just held off another year or however long it took for them to finish it and not get in bed with EA.
But good post Muhaloq!
No they weren't pushed by EA, in fact they delayed the game one or two times and they couldn't afford to delay it anymore, then the game was released and it was full of bugs and problems.
slpr: Thanks for posting this.
Hrica: Reading made up stories from another forum poster does not make something true. I've said this many many times already, but I'll say it again.
I was a beta tester for WAR during the whole closed testing phase. Mythic was running out of money before EA came into the picture and was going to have to either release the game even more unfinished than they did, or cancel it entirely.
State of WAR at release if there was no EA involvment: No cities at all, 7 or 8 finished classes on each side, horribly unbalanced PvP, no capture points in open world PvP, no keeps.
After EA came into the picture development really picked up and they were able to delay the release again to add more content to the game and try to finish as much as they could in the time frame they had set for themselves.
There was no "taking out" of the other main cities, they were never in the game to begin with. There was also never a slayer class in the game. The only thing that was actually "taken out" was the Chopper class, which was bad the way it was in beta.
Now, as to your last statement of delaying the release another year. Mythic could not have done this without more money and none of us know the internal discussions at EA or Mythic as to why they didn't give the game more time to develope, the only thing I can say for sure is without EA, WAR would have completely failed.
The reason the game failed though. Had nothing to do with time delays or missing cities. It was the focus around Instanced PvP battlegrounds. Spamming them to level got boring fast. And filling the games with PQs was another horribal design decision. Around every corner lurked another PQ, but 90% of the server population was queing for BGs so there was nobody to do them with. loadscreens betwen zones was another failed move making the world feel small. And the zone desing was bad, small areas with monsters and PQs cramped in made for a claustrophobic gaming experience.
Defending and taking Keeps was fun but gave nothing for your trubble so people just spamed the few BGs untill they couldent do it anymore and quit.
TOR dosent seam to have an endgame and the designers look to be focusing on replayability. HAHA it will get boring fast and no ammount of story or voice overs will save them... my prediction is that TOR will soon after release join WAR, AOC, CHAMPIONS, STAR TREK, AION and all the other failed games we have seen over the recent years. What devs should do is take a long look at WoW and then see to it that thier new game dosent have a single feature that it has.
like this:
WOW have levels = we cant have them
WOW have BGs = we cant have them
WOW have Quests = we have to think of something ells
WOW have Instances = we cant have them or we need to do them in a diffrent way
WoW have an ITem grind as part of its endgame = we cant have that
WoW have bad crafting = lets make crafting Important like it is in EVE....
WoW have classes = we cant have that
WoW have auto target = need to skipp that, like AoC did for example
WoW have DPS, TANK and Heal mechanic = we need to inovate this and make it diffrent, geting rid of it would be the best as people have had enough fo tank and spank
The list can go on and on but my point is if developers tried this method they might actually get a hit on thier hands, if not we will continue to see failed attempts in the years to come....
Mythic was bank rolled by EA, who pushed the game out of the gate before release, You are correct in your statement, but from early on, EA was calling the shots. Taking out the cities, and removing classes, etc etc, this was all EA. I wish Mythic would have just held off another year or however long it took for them to finish it and not get in bed with EA.
But good post Muhaloq!
No they weren't pushed by EA, in fact they delayed the game one or two times and they couldn't afford to delay it anymore, then the game was released and it was full of bugs and problems.
slpr: Thanks for posting this.
Hrica: Reading made up stories from another forum poster does not make something true. I've said this many many times already, but I'll say it again.
I was a beta tester for WAR during the whole closed testing phase. Mythic was running out of money before EA came into the picture and was going to have to either release the game even more unfinished than they did, or cancel it entirely.
State of WAR at release if there was no EA involvment: No cities at all, 7 or 8 finished classes on each side, horribly unbalanced PvP, no capture points in open world PvP, no keeps.
After EA came into the picture development really picked up and they were able to delay the release again to add more content to the game and try to finish as much as they could in the time frame they had set for themselves.
There was no "taking out" of the other main cities, they were never in the game to begin with. There was also never a slayer class in the game. The only thing that was actually "taken out" was the Chopper class, which was bad the way it was in beta.
Now, as to your last statement of delaying the release another year. Mythic could not have done this without more money and none of us know the internal discussions at EA or Mythic as to why they didn't give the game more time to develope, the only thing I can say for sure is without EA, WAR would have completely failed.
The reason the game failed though. Had nothing to do with time delays or missing cities. It was the focus around Instanced PvP battlegrounds. Spamming them to level got boring fast. And filling the games with PQs was another horribal design decision. Around every corner lurked another PQ, but 90% of the server population was queing for BGs so there was nobody to do them with. loadscreens betwen zones was another failed move making the world feel small. And the zone desing was bad, small areas with monsters and PQs cramped in made for a claustrophobic gaming experience.
Defending and taking Keeps was fun but gave nothing for your trubble so people just spamed the few BGs untill they couldent do it anymore and quit.
TOR dosent seam to have an endgame and the designers look to be focusing on replayability. HAHA it will get boring fast and no ammount of story or voice overs will save them... my prediction is that TOR will soon after release join WAR, AOC, CHAMPIONS, STAR TREK, AION and all the other failed games we have seen over the recent years. What devs should do is take a long look at WoW and then see to it that thier new game dosent have a single feature that it has.
like this:
WOW have levels = we cant have them
WOW have BGs = we cant have them
WOW have Quests = we have to think of something ells
WOW have Instances = we cant have them or we need to do them in a diffrent way
WoW have an ITem grind as part of its endgame = we cant have that
WoW have bad crafting = lets make crafting Important like it is in EVE....
WoW have classes = we cant have that
WoW have auto target = need to skipp that, like AoC did for example
WoW have DPS, TANK and Heal mechanic = we need to inovate this and make it diffrent, geting rid of it would be the best as people have had enough fo tank and spank
The list can go on and on but my point is if developers tried this method they might actually get a hit on thier hands, if not we will continue to see failed attempts in the years to come....
The only thing i can say to you is that you know very little about TOR.
Space combat. There had better be just as much care given to full on space combat, with a variety of ships available, with a multi-player capacity like SWG has now, but upgraded. Star wars isn't star wars unless you can fly something, and, FFS, PLEASE, no instant respawning if you lose it. Some of you may not like EVE, but, the notion of consequences, actually losing something, is something they have gotten right. I'd like to see some of that here.
Originally posted by Zlayer77 TOR dosent seam to have an endgame and the designers look to be focusing on replayability. HAHA it will get boring fast and no ammount of story or voice overs will save them... my prediction is that TOR will soon after release join WAR, AOC, CHAMPIONS, STAR TREK, AION and all the other failed games we have seen over the recent years.
You're basing your prediction entirely on an assumption that the game will not have an endgame. But they have said that they're going to have endgame content including raiding, pvp, as well as some new type of endgame system that they haven't revealed yet. Just because they haven't released the details of it yet with about a year to go still before the game will be released doesn't mean it won't exist.
TOR dosent seam to have an endgame and the designers look to be focusing on replayability. HAHA it will get boring fast and no ammount of story or voice overs will save them... my prediction is that TOR will soon after release join WAR, AOC, CHAMPIONS, STAR TREK, AION and all the other failed games we have seen over the recent years.
You're basing your prediction entirely on an assumption that the game will not have an endgame. But they have said that they're going to have endgame content including raiding, pvp, as well as some new type of endgame system that they haven't revealed yet. Just because they haven't released the details of it yet with about a year to go still before the game will be released doesn't mean it won't exist.
Yes sadly there is alot of ppl who speak with outreading everything out there. The dev's have done said there is EndGame Content. But BUT They want ppl to have fun with replay where every MMO fail's because after the Starter Zone in Every MMO I Plaied which is alot I Think I got a bigger collection of MMO's then of Console game's tring to find the next best thig. I can't play more then 2 per facion because it's just 100% repeat BullSh and this get's old. BW is tring to change a few key problem's but keep some of the Great MMO idea's. There is Crafting ppl, Rp ppl, Housing and collection ppl, PvP ppl, PvE & story ppl, and of corse can't leave out the ppl Title collecter ppl. They could have all this and u will still have your Doom saier ppl. The ppl who buy's ever MMO to get on the Fourm's and bitch for a Month and don't resub but once every 6 month's to come back and bitch some more. If u got your 6 month ppl coming back then u know your doing good. I will always say this is 1 sad part of MMO's but when u are plaing with Millions of ppl u will have your sad , lone ppl who just don't have nothing better to do then to Troll so ppl know's they are alive. It make's them fill like they did something that day. Someone spoke to them. But I'm getting off subject. Everyonr need's to read up on ToR before talking about it. I understand u Heard from someone in your guild or u read the main site. Which u think ToR's Site would have everything. Yet they do answer question for other website's and meg's and say more then they post. If u read a Fansite or to they uselly have info from every interview and every video. U will get more info from these site's then from SW:ToR site. These of corse is the way BW always was they don't want it on there main site in case something happen's and they have to push something back till the 1st expanstion. Then u can't say they lied to u.
Mythic was bank rolled by EA, who pushed the game out of the gate before release, You are correct in your statement, but from early on, EA was calling the shots. Taking out the cities, and removing classes, etc etc, this was all EA. I wish Mythic would have just held off another year or however long it took for them to finish it and not get in bed with EA.
But good post Muhaloq!
No they weren't pushed by EA, in fact they delayed the game one or two times and they couldn't afford to delay it anymore, then the game was released and it was full of bugs and problems.
slpr: Thanks for posting this.
Hrica: Reading made up stories from another forum poster does not make something true. I've said this many many times already, but I'll say it again.
I was a beta tester for WAR during the whole closed testing phase. Mythic was running out of money before EA came into the picture and was going to have to either release the game even more unfinished than they did, or cancel it entirely.
State of WAR at release if there was no EA involvment: No cities at all, 7 or 8 finished classes on each side, horribly unbalanced PvP, no capture points in open world PvP, no keeps.
After EA came into the picture development really picked up and they were able to delay the release again to add more content to the game and try to finish as much as they could in the time frame they had set for themselves.
There was no "taking out" of the other main cities, they were never in the game to begin with. There was also never a slayer class in the game. The only thing that was actually "taken out" was the Chopper class, which was bad the way it was in beta.
Now, as to your last statement of delaying the release another year. Mythic could not have done this without more money and none of us know the internal discussions at EA or Mythic as to why they didn't give the game more time to develope, the only thing I can say for sure is without EA, WAR would have completely failed.
thanx for your knowledge about reading made up stories, I do it all the time....I to was a tester and two of my GM's actually worked for Mythic in Virgina & Texas before both got the axe by EA. I know a little about WAR's history :-)
And no, I don't read people's made up opinons about the game, I have no time for that, your right about the "slayer" because he was called the "Hammerer" way back then.
Hey, look at me I am arguing over half-assed postulations and baseless speculations! It must happen this way because it happened this way in an other game! Thus I can predict the future because Nostradamus said that fire would rain from the sky as two forces arrayed as light and dark took the field amongst a backdrop of stars! It's all there man! The end is near! SW:TOR is the harbinger of the apocalypse!
Those who say this game will be a WoW clone just make me laught! You fanboys didn't even played a MMO before WoW. For your information WoW copied almost everything the game as from everquest, they just polished those systems to make it better and more intuitive.
This game won't be like WoW at all:
1 - Story driven MMO, with choices that change your own personal story and the way you play your character.
2 - Each class as theyr own story wich means it's like 8 games in 1. If you play a jedi knight and them play a bounty hunter you won't repeat quests.
3 - Huge Planets. People who already played the game said that one of the starting class planets (smaller ones said by the devs) seemed to have at least the size of WoW's kalimdor. Swtor will have at least 16 planets (not confirmed, could be more).
4- 1st cover system seen in a MMO, smuggler and imperial agent.
5 - Animations and coreography like you never seen in a MMO, not just the "now i hit you, now you hit me".
6 - Companion characters. Companions are not pet's like people is thinking... they interact with you, they also have their own story and they react to they way you act. For example, if you do something they don't like, they will tell you or they might just leave you. Having trouble getting a party to do some quest/raid? no problem just summon your companion and they can fill the missing spot, wich will reduce the trouble of speding 30 minutes in LFG.
7 - Almost forgot, FULLY VOICED MMO. All characters in game will have theyr own voice, including NPC's. This will alow to add immersion into the game and help in story telling. Combining voice with cinematics will be awsome to see in a MMO. And yes if you want you can skip the conversations.
Then comes all the other stuff EVERY MMO HAVE, crafting, pvp, raids, etc... and i bet we will have alot of fun new things to do like, SWOOP RACES, play pazaak (cool little game) and much more.
Maybe soon when they release more information and footage of the actual game you will change your mind. Stay cool, this game isn't supposed to kill other games... this game will have it's own fan base. I think people think standard mmo play, is copied from many games, there are industry standards, this does not mean every new game is a wow clone, wow is a clone of former mmo games in a way, thier idea game from eq,uo and others. What blizzard did was dumb down the mmo and make it wasy to appeal to the masses, and grahics that could play on the lowest end machines, wow is an anomly in the gaming world.
Good points, I can't see the wow connection either, seems like allot folks don't realize mmos's were out long before wow, and there is even a thread in eq2 about what wow stole from us today, if blizzard ever had an original thought it would kill them..LOL 8-10 million players can be wrong..LOL but really wow is a good game just not my game, its just to fugly for me..
Whenever something is majorly hiped or becoes extremely popular you will always have people who come in and do their best to try to bring it down for whatever reason.
I am an ex SWG, UO, Insert old MMO title here, player and while I do miss the days of old, they are well and gone, and to think that developers will move back to those sorts of designs now without incorperating what is popular now a days, is just silly.
People like to say this will be heavily instanced and linear and so on and so forth but have no real proof to back it up. I am sure there will be loading screens as you move from your personal story line to the main game world unless they use phasing, which I would not put it past Bioware to incorperate. If you take the quotes from exploration, in the fact that you can explore forever and the planets are huge, then that sort of tells me that the worlds themselves are not very instanced other than most likely a loading screen when you "land" on said planet.
Really we still know just too little. What we have seen is some small combat videos, some quick planetary videos and a few things on classes and flashpoints. Beyond that there really is no information. Don't get me wrong, this game may be terrible and boring as hell past the first month, but I'm with holding my judgment until we get closer and closer to the release date that is a year away.
Any game that has a PvP system must by its nature be offering non-linear gameplay. What I think we will see is linear plot-filled immersive game that is PvE-centric and linear, and non-linear elements such as PvP/RvR. I think Bioware will put enough game into SW:TOR to keep players sub'd for long enough for an end-game to develop. If thats the case and the title draws enough revenue after its inital launch then I would expect regular PvE and PvP content patches to keep everyone happy and the prospective cash cow inflated.
I find it hilarious that people make sweeping claims, like "SWTOR has no endgame" or "pvp will be this way, or that way" and the like. People talk about it like we know what the game will be like, as though the game is already live, and release is at the soonest, almost a year away.
We don't know squat yet. The only people who *know* anything work at Bioware. Until this game hits at least beta, we are all speculating.
I find it hilarious that people make sweeping claims, like "SWTOR has no endgame" or "pvp will be this way, or that way" and the like. People talk about it like we know what the game will be like, as though the game is already live, and release is at the soonest, almost a year away.
We don't know squat yet. The only people who *know* anything work at Bioware. Until this game hits at least beta, we are all speculating.
Yeah. What's your point? This is a forum on a gaming website. Speculation happens. It's one of the more interesting things about a gaming website.
I don't see a lot of 'positive' posters getting hassled for speculating on how awesome a game will be. It seems like a double standard to me.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
What the developers of MMO games fail to understand is that people want something new. Playing the same typ of game with a new skin is not good enough for most people. Recent failed projects show this, like Warhammer online, Champions online, Age of Conan and Aion etc etc.
You're absolutely right. Just look at the success of games like Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, A Tale in the Desert, or even Pirates of the Burning Sea. They're making money hand over fist for stepping out of the comfort zone and providing something people hadn't seen before....
EVE is the closest thing we have to a revolutionary system, and while it's brilliant, and well loved by the fans, it's hardly a juggernaut.
We want something new (we being people who read MMORPG, care enough to argue about unreleased games with a surprising vehemence, etc). People want what they're used to. We assume that our views are the views of the people. It's often, in fact, the opposite. If you surveyed people that play WoW, and ask them what they like about the game, I bet you'd be surprised overall.
"There is 2 Tree's to Choice from. Which the Dev's said that even your choice of Tree will make your story slightly diff. So for everything u would really have to play it 16 time's given it isn't going to be a huge diff's for the diff tree's just a few diff. Chat option's. U might have a force choke or a smooth talking way by the person. Or u might put a gun to his head and say hey give my that info. "
Exactly. Except for the fact that about the only real tangible, in-depth discussion we've gotten about TOR has been "Each class plays differently, with different storylines and completely different experiences" followed by "Playing a Smuggler and playing a Bounty Hunter will have two completely separated storylines."
To echo the sanity check. The things we know: It's a SW game. It's by Bioware. We know what the classes are. We know what some of the planets are. We've seen a combat video or two. That's about it. Unless some people are in beta, and then 1. NDA and 2. It's beta.
Who am I? @Lorechaser on CoH Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner) Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry) ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside Gyshe, Crucible, Terrakal on DDO And many more.
Yeah and from what we know already it seems like a very basic mmo with just an added story ala Mass Effect and Dragon Age style. Will there be space combat or even space travel ? Noone knows because they are going to spring all the good stuff on us right before launch I bet. The only people hyping this game way too much is the media. People are already eagerly awaiting E3 so Bioware can show us something different (we hope).
BioWare made KOTOR. Everyone that I've talked to have been ECSTATIC that BioWare is making SWTOR because of their amazing success (based on fan's opinions) with KOTOR. Top that off with BioWare's other sci-fi masterpiece (and I don't use that word lightly) Mass Effect (and Mass Effect 2) and you have a lot of VERY excited Sci-fi fans out there. You can't go on an MMORPG these days without someone saying, "I'm just waiting for SWTOR." Or if the discussion of games is going around, mention "SWTOR" and you will start a riot of people bouncing around in joyous glee.
As long as BioWare stays true to BioWare, this game will be immensely seccessful.
As long as BioWare stays true to BioWare, this game will be immensely seccessful.
The whole of your post is truth but this line is the one we all have to keep our fingers crossed for.
Tor wont be a wow killer though, its not designed to be, whats its designed to be is a successful in its own right online game.
Also many Sci fi critics are comparing the mass effect series to the original star wars trilogy in terms of raising the bar, Kotor is still a game that people play. The BG series are the goto games for CRPG players and Dragon Age was just lovely.
Biowares entry into the MMO market is looking similar to blizzards, established company who reek of quality taking their time to produce a polished new and above all FINISHED MMO that has content on day 1.
It is the only mmo I will pre-order, if they do a LTS deal I will buy it, my faith in biowares ability to deliver a quality game is that high and is based on the fact that every £ I have given them has felt like a bargain.
For all of those MMO Doubters out there, please remember that Star Wars was out WELL before WoW was even a twinkle in the eye of its creator, SW: TOR is NOT a "WoW Clone" it is a Star Wars MMO, nothing more or less, I believe I will play the game and then give my opinion of the game at that time not before, so please everyone this isnt politics there is no reason to get volitile, just wait patiently like everyone else out there and play it when it gets released, there is no reason to give your opinion about trailers, because those can change, and ya never know, you might just really enjoy playing TOR, and then you'll be eating the negative feedback you've given about a game that isnt even out yet. This is all I have to say about the matter.
For all of those MMO Doubters out there, please remember that Star Wars was out WELL before WoW was even a twinkle in the eye of its creator, SW: TOR is NOT a "WoW Clone" it is a Star Wars MMO, nothing more or less, I believe I will play the game and then give my opinion of the game at that time not before, so please everyone this isnt politics there is no reason to get volitile, just wait patiently like everyone else out there and play it when it gets released, there is no reason to give your opinion about trailers, because those can change, and ya never know, you might just really enjoy playing TOR, and then you'll be eating the negative feedback you've given about a game that isnt even out yet. This is all I have to say about the matter.
TOR is going to be similar to WoW in the way it plays, not SWG. That's why people call it a "WoW clone." The setting doesn't matter, it's all about how it plays.
For all of those MMO Doubters out there, please remember that Star Wars was out WELL before WoW was even a twinkle in the eye of its creator, SW: TOR is NOT a "WoW Clone" it is a Star Wars MMO, nothing more or less, I believe I will play the game and then give my opinion of the game at that time not before, so please everyone this isnt politics there is no reason to get volitile, just wait patiently like everyone else out there and play it when it gets released, there is no reason to give your opinion about trailers, because those can change, and ya never know, you might just really enjoy playing TOR, and then you'll be eating the negative feedback you've given about a game that isnt even out yet. This is all I have to say about the matter.
TOR is going to be similar to WoW in the way it plays, not SWG. That's why people call it a "WoW clone." The setting doesn't matter, it's all about how it plays.
The setting does matter... Wouldn't know about wow clone not a game that ever took my interest.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
You know, if TOR does play LIKE WoW, it'll be great. WoW is the most polished MMO right now. It being Star Wars and Bioware just makes it the much better for me.
For all of those MMO Doubters out there, please remember that Star Wars was out WELL before WoW was even a twinkle in the eye of its creator, SW: TOR is NOT a "WoW Clone" it is a Star Wars MMO, nothing more or less, I believe I will play the game and then give my opinion of the game at that time not before, so please everyone this isnt politics there is no reason to get volitile, just wait patiently like everyone else out there and play it when it gets released, there is no reason to give your opinion about trailers, because those can change, and ya never know, you might just really enjoy playing TOR, and then you'll be eating the negative feedback you've given about a game that isnt even out yet. This is all I have to say about the matter.
TOR is going to be similar to WoW in the way it plays, not SWG. That's why people call it a "WoW clone." The setting doesn't matter, it's all about how it plays.
The setting does matter... Wouldn't know about wow clone not a game that ever took my interest.
You're missing my point. The game seems to be very similar to WoW in how it plays; it follows the same formula. The setting is important, sure, but if the game plays a certain way, it is what it is. The phrase "WoW-clone" in this case implies that the game shares a lot of certain features that were adopted and copied by Blizzard when they created WoW.
Comments
Scott’s Launch Day Prediction:
At launch there will be a ton of guys wandering around with the hawtest companion. Cloned g/f anyone?
What the developers of MMO games fail to understand is that people want something new. Playing the same typ of game with a new skin is not good enough for most people. Recent failed projects show this, like Warhammer online, Champions online, Age of Conan and Aion etc etc.
They need to make some core changes like do away with classes, skip the fractions, no more instancing that have done nothing but ruin games like AoC for example. Developers should just sit down and try to create something new.
MMOs today are just like alot of other games such as SKATE 1,2,3, NHL 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 etc, UFC Undisputed 1,2 and COD 1,2. You get an updated version of a game you have allready played with some nice new fetures. And while that might work on the games above it dose not work in the MMO industry today, if developers want to make the next big thing they will have to come up with something new.
I personaly think its time for developers to start making new games instead of reselling old once with some new features.
slpr: Thanks for posting this.
Hrica: Reading made up stories from another forum poster does not make something true. I've said this many many times already, but I'll say it again.
I was a beta tester for WAR during the whole closed testing phase. Mythic was running out of money before EA came into the picture and was going to have to either release the game even more unfinished than they did, or cancel it entirely.
State of WAR at release if there was no EA involvment: No cities at all, 7 or 8 finished classes on each side, horribly unbalanced PvP, no capture points in open world PvP, no keeps.
After EA came into the picture development really picked up and they were able to delay the release again to add more content to the game and try to finish as much as they could in the time frame they had set for themselves.
There was no "taking out" of the other main cities, they were never in the game to begin with. There was also never a slayer class in the game. The only thing that was actually "taken out" was the Chopper class, which was bad the way it was in beta.
Now, as to your last statement of delaying the release another year. Mythic could not have done this without more money and none of us know the internal discussions at EA or Mythic as to why they didn't give the game more time to develope, the only thing I can say for sure is without EA, WAR would have completely failed.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
The reason the game failed though. Had nothing to do with time delays or missing cities. It was the focus around Instanced PvP battlegrounds. Spamming them to level got boring fast. And filling the games with PQs was another horribal design decision. Around every corner lurked another PQ, but 90% of the server population was queing for BGs so there was nobody to do them with. loadscreens betwen zones was another failed move making the world feel small. And the zone desing was bad, small areas with monsters and PQs cramped in made for a claustrophobic gaming experience.
Defending and taking Keeps was fun but gave nothing for your trubble so people just spamed the few BGs untill they couldent do it anymore and quit.
TOR dosent seam to have an endgame and the designers look to be focusing on replayability. HAHA it will get boring fast and no ammount of story or voice overs will save them... my prediction is that TOR will soon after release join WAR, AOC, CHAMPIONS, STAR TREK, AION and all the other failed games we have seen over the recent years. What devs should do is take a long look at WoW and then see to it that thier new game dosent have a single feature that it has.
like this:
WOW have levels = we cant have them
WOW have BGs = we cant have them
WOW have Quests = we have to think of something ells
WOW have Instances = we cant have them or we need to do them in a diffrent way
WoW have an ITem grind as part of its endgame = we cant have that
WoW have bad crafting = lets make crafting Important like it is in EVE....
WoW have classes = we cant have that
WoW have auto target = need to skipp that, like AoC did for example
WoW have DPS, TANK and Heal mechanic = we need to inovate this and make it diffrent, geting rid of it would be the best as people have had enough fo tank and spank
The list can go on and on but my point is if developers tried this method they might actually get a hit on thier hands, if not we will continue to see failed attempts in the years to come....
The only thing i can say to you is that you know very little about TOR.
Space combat. There had better be just as much care given to full on space combat, with a variety of ships available, with a multi-player capacity like SWG has now, but upgraded. Star wars isn't star wars unless you can fly something, and, FFS, PLEASE, no instant respawning if you lose it. Some of you may not like EVE, but, the notion of consequences, actually losing something, is something they have gotten right. I'd like to see some of that here.
You're basing your prediction entirely on an assumption that the game will not have an endgame. But they have said that they're going to have endgame content including raiding, pvp, as well as some new type of endgame system that they haven't revealed yet. Just because they haven't released the details of it yet with about a year to go still before the game will be released doesn't mean it won't exist.
Yes sadly there is alot of ppl who speak with outreading everything out there. The dev's have done said there is EndGame Content. But BUT They want ppl to have fun with replay where every MMO fail's because after the Starter Zone in Every MMO I Plaied which is alot I Think I got a bigger collection of MMO's then of Console game's tring to find the next best thig. I can't play more then 2 per facion because it's just 100% repeat BullSh and this get's old. BW is tring to change a few key problem's but keep some of the Great MMO idea's. There is Crafting ppl, Rp ppl, Housing and collection ppl, PvP ppl, PvE & story ppl, and of corse can't leave out the ppl Title collecter ppl. They could have all this and u will still have your Doom saier ppl. The ppl who buy's ever MMO to get on the Fourm's and bitch for a Month and don't resub but once every 6 month's to come back and bitch some more. If u got your 6 month ppl coming back then u know your doing good. I will always say this is 1 sad part of MMO's but when u are plaing with Millions of ppl u will have your sad , lone ppl who just don't have nothing better to do then to Troll so ppl know's they are alive. It make's them fill like they did something that day. Someone spoke to them. But I'm getting off subject. Everyonr need's to read up on ToR before talking about it. I understand u Heard from someone in your guild or u read the main site. Which u think ToR's Site would have everything. Yet they do answer question for other website's and meg's and say more then they post. If u read a Fansite or to they uselly have info from every interview and every video. U will get more info from these site's then from SW:ToR site. These of corse is the way BW always was they don't want it on there main site in case something happen's and they have to push something back till the 1st expanstion. Then u can't say they lied to u.
thanx for your knowledge about reading made up stories, I do it all the time....I to was a tester and two of my GM's actually worked for Mythic in Virgina & Texas before both got the axe by EA. I know a little about WAR's history :-)
And no, I don't read people's made up opinons about the game, I have no time for that, your right about the "slayer" because he was called the "Hammerer" way back then.
Hey, look at me I am arguing over half-assed postulations and baseless speculations! It must happen this way because it happened this way in an other game! Thus I can predict the future because Nostradamus said that fire would rain from the sky as two forces arrayed as light and dark took the field amongst a backdrop of stars! It's all there man! The end is near! SW:TOR is the harbinger of the apocalypse!
*giggles* so true, so true...reality check!
Lets hope Bioware makes this happen. They are solid and I'm sure they could "part" with EA if they ever feel the need be!
Any game that has a PvP system must by its nature be offering non-linear gameplay. What I think we will see is linear plot-filled immersive game that is PvE-centric and linear, and non-linear elements such as PvP/RvR. I think Bioware will put enough game into SW:TOR to keep players sub'd for long enough for an end-game to develop. If thats the case and the title draws enough revenue after its inital launch then I would expect regular PvE and PvP content patches to keep everyone happy and the prospective cash cow inflated.
I find it hilarious that people make sweeping claims, like "SWTOR has no endgame" or "pvp will be this way, or that way" and the like. People talk about it like we know what the game will be like, as though the game is already live, and release is at the soonest, almost a year away.
We don't know squat yet. The only people who *know* anything work at Bioware. Until this game hits at least beta, we are all speculating.
Yeah. What's your point? This is a forum on a gaming website. Speculation happens. It's one of the more interesting things about a gaming website.
I don't see a lot of 'positive' posters getting hassled for speculating on how awesome a game will be. It seems like a double standard to me.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You're absolutely right. Just look at the success of games like Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, A Tale in the Desert, or even Pirates of the Burning Sea. They're making money hand over fist for stepping out of the comfort zone and providing something people hadn't seen before....
EVE is the closest thing we have to a revolutionary system, and while it's brilliant, and well loved by the fans, it's hardly a juggernaut.
We want something new (we being people who read MMORPG, care enough to argue about unreleased games with a surprising vehemence, etc). People want what they're used to. We assume that our views are the views of the people. It's often, in fact, the opposite. If you surveyed people that play WoW, and ask them what they like about the game, I bet you'd be surprised overall.
"There is 2 Tree's to Choice from. Which the Dev's said that even your choice of Tree will make your story slightly diff. So for everything u would really have to play it 16 time's given it isn't going to be a huge diff's for the diff tree's just a few diff. Chat option's. U might have a force choke or a smooth talking way by the person. Or u might put a gun to his head and say hey give my that info. "
Exactly. Except for the fact that about the only real tangible, in-depth discussion we've gotten about TOR has been "Each class plays differently, with different storylines and completely different experiences" followed by "Playing a Smuggler and playing a Bounty Hunter will have two completely separated storylines."
To echo the sanity check. The things we know: It's a SW game. It's by Bioware. We know what the classes are. We know what some of the planets are. We've seen a combat video or two. That's about it. Unless some people are in beta, and then 1. NDA and 2. It's beta.
Who am I?
@Lorechaser on CoH
Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner)
Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry)
ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside
Gyshe, Crucible, Terrakal on DDO
And many more.
Yeah and from what we know already it seems like a very basic mmo with just an added story ala Mass Effect and Dragon Age style. Will there be space combat or even space travel ? Noone knows because they are going to spring all the good stuff on us right before launch I bet. The only people hyping this game way too much is the media. People are already eagerly awaiting E3 so Bioware can show us something different (we hope).
Heh, I see loads of positive posters get hassled for how awesome their game will be. They get called "fanbois" and are ridiculed frequently.
And my point was simply, that I found it funny
BioWare made KOTOR. Everyone that I've talked to have been ECSTATIC that BioWare is making SWTOR because of their amazing success (based on fan's opinions) with KOTOR. Top that off with BioWare's other sci-fi masterpiece (and I don't use that word lightly) Mass Effect (and Mass Effect 2) and you have a lot of VERY excited Sci-fi fans out there. You can't go on an MMORPG these days without someone saying, "I'm just waiting for SWTOR." Or if the discussion of games is going around, mention "SWTOR" and you will start a riot of people bouncing around in joyous glee.
As long as BioWare stays true to BioWare, this game will be immensely seccessful.
The whole of your post is truth but this line is the one we all have to keep our fingers crossed for.
Tor wont be a wow killer though, its not designed to be, whats its designed to be is a successful in its own right online game.
Also many Sci fi critics are comparing the mass effect series to the original star wars trilogy in terms of raising the bar, Kotor is still a game that people play. The BG series are the goto games for CRPG players and Dragon Age was just lovely.
Biowares entry into the MMO market is looking similar to blizzards, established company who reek of quality taking their time to produce a polished new and above all FINISHED MMO that has content on day 1.
It is the only mmo I will pre-order, if they do a LTS deal I will buy it, my faith in biowares ability to deliver a quality game is that high and is based on the fact that every £ I have given them has felt like a bargain.
For all of those MMO Doubters out there, please remember that Star Wars was out WELL before WoW was even a twinkle in the eye of its creator, SW: TOR is NOT a "WoW Clone" it is a Star Wars MMO, nothing more or less, I believe I will play the game and then give my opinion of the game at that time not before, so please everyone this isnt politics there is no reason to get volitile, just wait patiently like everyone else out there and play it when it gets released, there is no reason to give your opinion about trailers, because those can change, and ya never know, you might just really enjoy playing TOR, and then you'll be eating the negative feedback you've given about a game that isnt even out yet. This is all I have to say about the matter.
TOR is going to be similar to WoW in the way it plays, not SWG. That's why people call it a "WoW clone." The setting doesn't matter, it's all about how it plays.
The setting does matter... Wouldn't know about wow clone not a game that ever took my interest.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
You know, if TOR does play LIKE WoW, it'll be great. WoW is the most polished MMO right now. It being Star Wars and Bioware just makes it the much better for me.
You're missing my point. The game seems to be very similar to WoW in how it plays; it follows the same formula. The setting is important, sure, but if the game plays a certain way, it is what it is. The phrase "WoW-clone" in this case implies that the game shares a lot of certain features that were adopted and copied by Blizzard when they created WoW.