Does your OP have an X in it like WoWs quest tracker because I have a feeling that I don't want to read it since it is probably as useless to read it like the quests in WoW.
@Laresloci: Then let me break it down in simple terms that even you can understand: stating that people who don't have your casual gameplay style or who don't like the quest system are all no-lifers who spend whole days at a stretch playing WoW is a moron's way of posing an argument and puts you in the same class as the extremist fanbois or haters => as in "don't listen to the drunk or nutjob because he's sprouting nonsensical garbage anyway"
And yes, that last one was me using extremes, apparently those are the only kind you've no trouble picking up.
Besides that, I wish you good luck with enjoying the game the way you play it :-) Everyone should enjoy the MMO's they play no matter their gameplay style or the amount of time they put into it, nor the MMO they are playing at the moment.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I never had much problem with any form of questhelper since to me it greatly improved the immersion of the quests and the game. I just could not get over the 'wall banger' of an NPC knowing exactly where I have to go to fullfill his misstion and refusing to tell me that in a straightforward manner and being completly unwilling to point it out on a map. The lack of logic and commons sense in that always bothered me and killed most of my immersion. As such a game feature that points out the general area where I have to go seems like a perfect tool to preserve immersion.
Besides that, I wish you good luck with enjoying the game the way you play it :-) Everyone should enjoy the MMO's they play no matter their gameplay style or the amount of time they put into it, nor the MMO they are playing at the moment.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make in the first place. Sorry it didn't come out like that in the first place. The whole "hermit" discussion did put me off in the first place. I wasn't sure what you ment by "extremes". Unfortunately for forum nuances.
Further, I wish you the same good luck enjoying the game the way you play it.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
Actually even for someone who doesn't have a lot of free time an mmo can still be a decent choice. Say they pay 15 for the month. And play lets say maybe 2 hours a night at max to wind down from their day. Multiply that by thirty and you have more playtime than most console games. Even if he/she quits after a month they still got their money's worth out of the game.
I don't consider 60 hours a month to be casual play.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Besides that, I wish you good luck with enjoying the game the way you play it :-) Everyone should enjoy the MMO's they play no matter their gameplay style or the amount of time they put into it, nor the MMO they are playing at the moment.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make in the first place. Sorry it didn't come out like that in the first place. The whole "hermit" discussion did put me off in the first place. I wasn't sure what you ment by "extremes". Unfortunately for forum nuances.
Further, I wish you the same good luck enjoying the game the way you play it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by WSIMike I mean... seriously? How much hand-holding to people really need? Are people becoming *that* lazy? Well.. that's a rhetorical question, I guess.
First off, i have not read all replies to this thread, so if i am going over some points again, i am sorry.
The quest tracking option was not initally a Blizzard idea, it was a response to a demand from it's customer base that was already using the third party 'Questhelper' add on and as with all add ons it had it's own issues. This isn't the first time Blizzard have done this (threat meter, AH changes etc...) and won't be the last and all it shows is that they are responding to a requirement/demand from their customers.
Other than that, the map tracking can be turned off if you prefer not to use it and go back to doing quests the old fashioned way, just untick "show quest objectives" and hey presto.
It is just another tool, use it or don't use it, it is up to you, but at least you have a choice.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
So, two good friends of mine decided they want to go back and give WoW another whirl, especially in anticipation of Cataclysm coming out (which, I'll admit does look rather nice). Talking with them about it, it occurred to me that it'd be fun to play to with friends again, and lo and behold there was a free "come back and see what we've been up to" 7 day trial awaiting me. Perfect! It turns out my friends can't come back yet due to an unexpected rl situation that has their funds rather tied up (hand surgery, casts, time out of work w/out pay and high hospital bills...hooray!), so I figure "well, let me give the game a look and I can just resub at the end if it's looking good.
Well, I have to thank Blizzard for the free 7 days, really, because they saved me money that would have led to nothing but profuse face-palming.
Seems that since last time I played, Blizzard has done the seemingly impossible and made playing WoW, particularly questing in this case, even more brain-dead, by adding a built-in quest tracker that shows you exactly where you have to go for each quest, exactly where the spots are where you have to kill mobs... etc. etc.
I mean... seriously? How much hand-holding to people really need? Are people becoming *that* lazy? Well.. that's a rhetorical question, I guess.
I looked for a way to disable all that but nothing I found seemed to work. I'd really rather just, you know, play the game and figure things out on my own withou being shown exactly where I need to go. Seems Blizzard's determined to make sure they leave out all sense of exploration or "figuring it out for myself"... heaven forbid I have to use any critical thinking skills in their game.
... relevant detour...
I mean, I had gotten a great indication of this during the 'outcry' about the Mankirk's Wife quest some time back. A large group of players responded to that quest with a chorus of, "What? We have to read and pay attention to the quest dialog to get an idea of where we have to go? BLASPHEMY!! You effed this one up, Blizzard!!".
I remember it being a joke of how much Blizzard "botched" that quest. Turns out, when I came around to doing it... it was freaking *easy*. Right in the quest text it says they were attacked on the Southern Golden Road... HINT ALERT! HINT ALERT!
Seemed to me that might just be the place to start looking... so I did. Lo and behold... found Mankirk's wife's lifeless body a mere 10 minutes after starting the quest from Crossroads. Yeah... Blizzard *really* botched that up by expecting players to - gasp - use elementary school reading skills to complete it.
It's not like I'm some brainiac with a PHD in Everything. I used basic common sense and about 20 seconds of effort to actually read the quest dialog. Apparently that's just far too much to ask for some. So in no way is this about me patting myself on the back for being "super intelligent". It's more about how damn lazy so many others are.
... end relevant detour ...
Anyway... back to my point.
So... at this point, it seems to me the only step left to take for Blizzard is to implement an "Autoplay" function, where you queue up the quests you want to do, hit "go" and your character will automatically go to each spot, complete each objective - fighting and all - and go back to turn the quests in... While you watch, like it's some kind of TV show where you're merely a passive spectator rather than an active participant.
Not sure that would work, though.. It might offend some people's frail sensitivities that they have to do "all that clicking" to queue up the quests they need to do. For them, Blizzard could just implement a checkbox that says "Complete All Active Quests" and, bingo. They've got potentially hours of passive entertainment where they don't need to do a thing. I get the impression that would be heaven for some.
Seriously, though... how much more brain-dead can Blizzard possibly make this game?
Anyways... again, I realize the game obviously still applies to millions so, yes, no one needs to remind me. It just astounds me that there are those who think being led by the nose to such a degree, so all they're doing is going through the motions is "fun". My sister, sadly, is one of them. I was talking to her about it last night and she was all "Oh isn't that awesome!! Now I know exactly where to go and dont' have to spend all that time running around with no idea what to do. That annoys the hell out of me". When I told her the quest dialog tells you what to do, she says "Yeah, but I don't bother reading all that". So... there you go...
Then again... perhaps it's a reason why people are becoming more and more bored with the so-called "casual MMO"... and don't even realize it.
I agree with everything you just said mate. I got the exact same feeling. Thankfully I have FFXI to play which still offers a proper challenge
The quest tracking option was not initally a Blizzard idea, it was a response to a demand from it's customer base that was already using the third party 'Questhelper' add on and as with all add ons it had it's own issues. This isn't the first time Blizzard have done this (threat meter, AH changes etc...) and won't be the last and all it shows is that they are responding to a requirement/demand from their customers.
True, and I applaud that.
Other than that, the map tracking can be turned off if you prefer not to use it and go back to doing quests the old fashioned way, just untick "show quest objectives" and hey presto.
There were times when I would have liked to turn off the minimap, and play like a friend of mine described playing EQ.
It is just another tool, use it or don't use it, it is up to you, but at least you have a choice.
Yes, but it does change the attitudes of players. Rather than answer a question about a quest - they just say "turn on your quest help". I do think it is a good addition overall, but it does have that drawback. It makes the game less interactive.
The less players need each other, the less they will co-operate and communicate. Presumably those things are a big part of why we play a multiplayer game in the first place.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Didn't read the whole thread but really the OP needs to go spend some time playing other MMOs if they think WoW is easy mode. Remember, Blizzard doesn't create anything they improve on them. Everything people complain WoW has to make the game easier was in another MMO first.
Even the so-called hardcore MMOs like Vanguard have these now. Its what the masses, me included, want. Lets be honest you used to use thottbot and wowhead, now its built in. Bad for them but not the customer. You could argue that it more realistic this way, since really what commander or citizen looking for help wouldn't point it out on the map for you anyway =P Now if its an advance scout mission sure, but most MMO quests are go deal with something we've known about for as long the the IP was created
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter The less players need each other, the less they will co-operate and communicate. Presumably those things are a big part of why we play a multiplayer game in the first place.
I think this is the key to threads like this one though and it is that Blizzard is blamed for just following the trends and demands of it's player base. Any company designing a product will develop it with the customer in mind and when the product is out there, customer feedback will drive the development of that product further. There are those that will say 'I' never asked for that change, but it is always the majority that will rule in cases like this.
When it comes down to it, the option to be as social as you like is there if the player so desires, but there is also the option to pretty much solo the whole thing too. What i find a little annoying is those that claim Blizzard has done this or that to ruin the game when all they do is add options for their player base, it is completely down to the players themselves in the most part whether they decide to use these options or not.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Honestly, I don't even know why we have leveling in any game, anymore. Its seems so pointless. Its boring in every game now, and its just an obstacle to get to where all the development occurs. Why force us through this 3 month torture cycle if there is little to no resources put into it?
Honestly, I don't even know why we have leveling in any game, anymore. Its seems so pointless. Its boring in every game now, and its just an obstacle to get to where all the development occurs. Why force us through this 3 month torture cycle if there is little to no resources put into it?
I enjoy leveling. In fact I'd say I enjoy it more than endgame. No, the rewards arent' as good. No, the fights aren't as exciting as a raid boss. But to me it is the time that I learn how to play my character. To learn about the story/lore of the world. If I wanted to just skip ahead to max level then I'd play a FPS.
Honestly, I don't even know why we have leveling in any game, anymore. Its seems so pointless. Its boring in every game now, and its just an obstacle to get to where all the development occurs. Why force us through this 3 month torture cycle if there is little to no resources put into it?
I enjoy leveling. In fact I'd say I enjoy it more than endgame. No, the rewards arent' as good. No, the fights aren't as exciting as a raid boss. But to me it is the time that I learn how to play my character. To learn about the story/lore of the world. If I wanted to just skip ahead to max level then I'd play a FPS.
Oh, I agree with you. I enjoy leveling, but hate raiding. I do like endgame PvP if its not gear based. That's why I don't play any MMOs, atm. I'm just saying games like WoW, WAR, LOTRO, EQ2, etc, every level feels like the last level; fetch quest - do quest, repeat ad naseum. I find those games boring, and they never seem to increase content to players who only enjoy leveling(although I hear in EQ2 you can do AA at any level I need to check that out). They only develop more endgame content. Reinforcing that the game is at endgame not leveling. Guys like us get shafted even though I bet there are more people who don't raid than do.
Whats the problem? why just...not use the autowhatever function? just dont use the map! its not like blizzard forces your character to move to the spot.. . . . you can still just run and *adventure* all you want....
whats the point of writting books to display your disgust over the *decay of mmos* just becuase an option is there that you dont even have to ever use?
Its like opening up your cupboard , looking at all the incredients to make your apple pie then noticing the tabasco sauce. . .and getting mad at Tabasco for making the sauce!
Is someone forcing you to put tobasco sauce in your apple pie?
Is someone forcing you to use the auto whatever function in your mmo?
I think that maybe you people just like to hear yourselves talk (or see yourselves type) then get an orgasm when someone grants you the attention you all are whoring out for
all the energy the op is wasting to complain about the tabasco sauce that he didnt even put in his apple pie, he could have either
a) played the game without using the tabasco sauce
b) found a game that DIDNT have the tabsco sauce in it
c) take a walk outside...maybe?
well anyway I DO thank the op for one thing, causing me to know what kind of people I would love to play my games with. . .and the op isnt one of them
Comments
You had no point to make except one liner sound bites....how could I expect any different.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
Does your OP have an X in it like WoWs quest tracker because I have a feeling that I don't want to read it since it is probably as useless to read it like the quests in WoW.
@Laresloci: Then let me break it down in simple terms that even you can understand: stating that people who don't have your casual gameplay style or who don't like the quest system are all no-lifers who spend whole days at a stretch playing WoW is a moron's way of posing an argument and puts you in the same class as the extremist fanbois or haters => as in "don't listen to the drunk or nutjob because he's sprouting nonsensical garbage anyway"
And yes, that last one was me using extremes, apparently those are the only kind you've no trouble picking up.
Besides that, I wish you good luck with enjoying the game the way you play it :-) Everyone should enjoy the MMO's they play no matter their gameplay style or the amount of time they put into it, nor the MMO they are playing at the moment.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I never had much problem with any form of questhelper since to me it greatly improved the immersion of the quests and the game. I just could not get over the 'wall banger' of an NPC knowing exactly where I have to go to fullfill his misstion and refusing to tell me that in a straightforward manner and being completly unwilling to point it out on a map. The lack of logic and commons sense in that always bothered me and killed most of my immersion. As such a game feature that points out the general area where I have to go seems like a perfect tool to preserve immersion.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make in the first place. Sorry it didn't come out like that in the first place. The whole "hermit" discussion did put me off in the first place. I wasn't sure what you ment by "extremes". Unfortunately for forum nuances.
Further, I wish you the same good luck enjoying the game the way you play it.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
I don't consider 60 hours a month to be casual play.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Thanks :-) (and I mean it)
And 60 h/month is indeed far from casual.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
First off, i have not read all replies to this thread, so if i am going over some points again, i am sorry.
The quest tracking option was not initally a Blizzard idea, it was a response to a demand from it's customer base that was already using the third party 'Questhelper' add on and as with all add ons it had it's own issues. This isn't the first time Blizzard have done this (threat meter, AH changes etc...) and won't be the last and all it shows is that they are responding to a requirement/demand from their customers.
Other than that, the map tracking can be turned off if you prefer not to use it and go back to doing quests the old fashioned way, just untick "show quest objectives" and hey presto.
It is just another tool, use it or don't use it, it is up to you, but at least you have a choice.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I agree with everything you just said mate. I got the exact same feeling. Thankfully I have FFXI to play which still offers a proper challenge
Yes, but it does change the attitudes of players. Rather than answer a question about a quest - they just say "turn on your quest help". I do think it is a good addition overall, but it does have that drawback. It makes the game less interactive.
The less players need each other, the less they will co-operate and communicate. Presumably those things are a big part of why we play a multiplayer game in the first place.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Didn't read the whole thread but really the OP needs to go spend some time playing other MMOs if they think WoW is easy mode. Remember, Blizzard doesn't create anything they improve on them. Everything people complain WoW has to make the game easier was in another MMO first.
Even the so-called hardcore MMOs like Vanguard have these now. Its what the masses, me included, want. Lets be honest you used to use thottbot and wowhead, now its built in. Bad for them but not the customer. You could argue that it more realistic this way, since really what commander or citizen looking for help wouldn't point it out on the map for you anyway =P Now if its an advance scout mission sure, but most MMO quests are go deal with something we've known about for as long the the IP was created
I think this is the key to threads like this one though and it is that Blizzard is blamed for just following the trends and demands of it's player base. Any company designing a product will develop it with the customer in mind and when the product is out there, customer feedback will drive the development of that product further. There are those that will say 'I' never asked for that change, but it is always the majority that will rule in cases like this.
When it comes down to it, the option to be as social as you like is there if the player so desires, but there is also the option to pretty much solo the whole thing too. What i find a little annoying is those that claim Blizzard has done this or that to ruin the game when all they do is add options for their player base, it is completely down to the players themselves in the most part whether they decide to use these options or not.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Honestly, I don't even know why we have leveling in any game, anymore. Its seems so pointless. Its boring in every game now, and its just an obstacle to get to where all the development occurs. Why force us through this 3 month torture cycle if there is little to no resources put into it?
I enjoy leveling. In fact I'd say I enjoy it more than endgame. No, the rewards arent' as good. No, the fights aren't as exciting as a raid boss. But to me it is the time that I learn how to play my character. To learn about the story/lore of the world. If I wanted to just skip ahead to max level then I'd play a FPS.
Oh, I agree with you. I enjoy leveling, but hate raiding. I do like endgame PvP if its not gear based. That's why I don't play any MMOs, atm. I'm just saying games like WoW, WAR, LOTRO, EQ2, etc, every level feels like the last level; fetch quest - do quest, repeat ad naseum. I find those games boring, and they never seem to increase content to players who only enjoy leveling(although I hear in EQ2 you can do AA at any level I need to check that out). They only develop more endgame content. Reinforcing that the game is at endgame not leveling. Guys like us get shafted even though I bet there are more people who don't raid than do.
Whats the problem? why just...not use the autowhatever function? just dont use the map! its not like blizzard forces your character to move to the spot.. . . . you can still just run and *adventure* all you want....
whats the point of writting books to display your disgust over the *decay of mmos* just becuase an option is there that you dont even have to ever use?
Its like opening up your cupboard , looking at all the incredients to make your apple pie then noticing the tabasco sauce. . .and getting mad at Tabasco for making the sauce!
Is someone forcing you to put tobasco sauce in your apple pie?
Is someone forcing you to use the auto whatever function in your mmo?
I think that maybe you people just like to hear yourselves talk (or see yourselves type) then get an orgasm when someone grants you the attention you all are whoring out for
all the energy the op is wasting to complain about the tabasco sauce that he didnt even put in his apple pie, he could have either
a) played the game without using the tabasco sauce
b) found a game that DIDNT have the tabsco sauce in it
c) take a walk outside...maybe?
well anyway I DO thank the op for one thing, causing me to know what kind of people I would love to play my games with. . .and the op isnt one of them