It's all about trust. Players have seen too many Developers lie to them knowingly and willingly. It makes the playerbase react badly to any sniff of a breach of trust, even those that are honest mistakes, or misunderstandings. Players were already willing to kick your game to its death for their personal entertainment; giving them a legit reason to loathe you is YOUR FAULT, not theirs. In the end, which side is trying to get the other to pay them cash money?
Why is that we should "expect" less than perfection at the release of an MMO? What if you bought a house and there was no kitchen, but the homebuilder said dont worry, Ill have that in there in about 2 months. Heck, what if you bought a new pen, and there was no ink, just a note saying, ink will be developed and installed as soon as possible? It really is utter BS that we hold mmo companies to such low standards. They have alphas, they have betas, do whatever it takes to get it right or don't launch the game. Or, if you need more players to better test systems, open the beta up to more, or extend it. People use the excuse that they "have" to release it due to money reasons, but guess what, just because a car company wants to release early to help with costs, doesnt mean they ship cars without steering wheels. No excuse to mmo developers.
And as far as extended downtime. If its a legitimate unforseeable issue, the community should bear with it. Power outages, short circuits, acts of god, these are things that are extremely hard to predict. However, down time due to patches are unacceptable. Put it up on test servers, put it up on several test servers, fix the problems before it hits live servers. Blizzard is notorious for that, and after all this time, its just unacceptable now, but sadly too many people treat mmo's like other addictions and can't simply drop the game on a whim, and this is why developers take advantage of their player bases, because players are addicts.
Holice, I work for an MMO developer. Usually, when we have someone like you complaining to our tech department, the complaints go largely ignored, because it displays a blind fury in the face of development and is quite frankly insulting to the dev team.
As for broken games... picture this. for a single-player console game, you've got a test team of maybe 50 people or so. They play through, break it, fix it, and repeat until it's set.
with an MMORPG, the testing is different and more user-based simply because 50 QA guys are not going to be able to find bugs and break a game as fast as 2000 players. Using that whole "I paid for the game, give me service" is only valid for maybe a month, because honestly your 50$ box sale barely even qualifies as an hour and a half of one of my workdays in the art department, and we're the underpaid ones, and we're working almost 7 days a week to deliver those patches and updates that people like you want, need, and frankly dont deserve.
And we are the ones working 3 or 4 hours to pay for that box sale that pays your wages, frankly its a good job you work in art and not any customer facing job as a statement like that would get you fired immediatly.
Now people are annoying, whiney and demanding, but if they are giving you their money for a service you provide you might want to remember that they are the hand that feeds you.
This whole article is a nice grounding for the slavering idiots that do 4 page rants at an extra 5 hours downtime, but its not an excuse to forget the most vital rule of the capitalist world.
My money pays for your job... without the customers cash, you are nothing. Frankly with your attitude I hope you are a damm good artist because you want, need and frankly dont deserve our custom.
Why is that we should "expect" less than perfection at the release of an MMO? What if you bought a house and there was no kitchen, but the homebuilder said dont worry, Ill have that in there in about 2 months. Heck, what if you bought a new pen, and there was no ink, just a note saying, ink will be developed and installed as soon as possible? It really is utter BS that we hold mmo companies to such low standards. They have alphas, they have betas, do whatever it takes to get it right or don't launch the game. Or, if you need more players to better test systems, open the beta up to more, or extend it. People use the excuse that they "have" to release it due to money reasons, but guess what, just because a car company wants to release early to help with costs, doesnt mean they ship cars without steering wheels. No excuse to mmo developers.
And as far as extended downtime. If its a legitimate unforseeable issue, the community should bear with it. Power outages, short circuits, acts of god, these are things that are extremely hard to predict. However, down time due to patches are unacceptable. Put it up on test servers, put it up on several test servers, fix the problems before it hits live servers. Blizzard is notorious for that, and after all this time, its just unacceptable now, but sadly too many people treat mmo's like other addictions and can't simply drop the game on a whim, and this is why developers take advantage of their player bases, because players are addicts.
There are plenty of legitimate money issues that force games to be released early
I too hate missing features but i think it is more a problem with marketing (too much hype, too much info on underdeveloped parts of the game). That being said the one thing you can't chuck a fit over is bugs on release or trouble with the network. All MMO's have issues on release it is a fact of life and the development of MMO's will never reach perfection. As a poster said above, 50 QA guys are not going to find all the bugs 2000 players.
You have to give the devs a break and instead blame the publishers and their stupid release dates (why release a game early when they have seen so many other games fail because of it)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
No, his analogy is fine. A house has a list of features that must be included and functional before the house is considered complete. Software should be no different.
The game industry is too mature for all these half-assed releases to continue being acceptable. A decade ago, I could see it. Today? No excuse. It's called project management
A space shuttle or a space rocket, do they not occationaly blow up? Have you ever noticed that even after 30 years of development, your OS is still being updated regularly? Seen the news about Toyota's recently? Followed the developments in the economy and finance as of late?
It's not about project management, that's a mere tool which is definately in place. It's about the nature and complexity of the project undertaken. Sometimes errors occurs, and as the complexity doubles the potential for errors increase exponentially.
Let's be clear that I recognize the difference between bugs that somehow escapes detection during beta vs bugs reported in beta and still present in the release, in addition to half-baked features and functions. Many games have these situations and it should be unaccepatble. Yes, Toyota is having a rough time right now, but the vast majority of their cars will start when you turn the key and run for years without problems. Most shuttle launches go without a hitch. Imagine trying to launch one without one of the boosters because it will be "added later."
I also draw a distinction between the initial release and upgrades. Adding content is an upgrade. Fixing bugs is not an upgrade. Games should launch with a fully functional baseline, containing no bugs that were reported in beta. What game launched in the past 6 mos to a year has met that simple criteria?
(BTW I expect the same of any software, even my OS. But, obviously, I have fewer options when it comes to buggy OS. I can, however, choose not purchase a buggy, incomplete game)
"There should be a moratorium declared on all arm-chair designing for games that already have their own development staff being paid to do the job you feel you've gained enough levels to do yourself."
I think this should have been included in the list:
"Your personal tastes and preferences in MMORPG gaming are NOT unmitigated fact."
While there are some factual problems and omissions present in gaming (systems promised at launch that are missing, severe technical problems), a large number of "problems" some of the more entitlement-prone members of the MMO community cite about games are based on nothing more than personal opinion, taste, or preference. They aren't "factual" problems at all, though such "MMO vets" speak of them as though they are incontrovertible fact, as they also deign to speak for the majority - as if they had some special authority to do so.
#5. MMOs are an evolving on-going process. There is no first time to get it right to. There is only a starting point you move on from.
#4. If you think you can do better, do so. Otherwise, shut up.
#3. Go get some fresh air. YOu probably shouldn't be getting used to breathing in your own funk. At least go take a shower.
#2. No, you don't have any idea. You're just a loud-mouthed jerk who wants to act like he knows something. Sit down, shut up, and be happy with what they give you, or go find something else to play.
#1. If this is NA, then you have nothing to complain about. And yet you do. You're the worst sort of troll: self-contradicting. STFU & GTFO.
Ok i'll bite.
#5. So you expect me to believe that we should all buy incomplete unfinished games and pay a monthly fee for something that is practically a illegitimate beta test? No. Get it right the first time.
#4. I can do better you gonna pay me? give me the resources? no? well....
#3. Do not confuse your own experiences of life with mine. thanks for taking the time to personally make an attempt to insult me. i am flattered.
#2. yeah we as a community kinda do have a pretty good idea of how to fix it. notice how i said WE not I. Not all of as are idiots.
#1. i didn't feel like explaining how todays mmorpg is nothing more than a mindless zombie training cookie cut pile of shit. because if #1 was true we wouldn't have this problem
sorry if i prefer to voice my opinion i usually try to avoid you caped crusaders patrolling the forums trying to prove something to yourselves.
Why is that we should "expect" less than perfection at the release of an MMO? What if you bought a house and there was no kitchen, but the homebuilder said dont worry, Ill have that in there in about 2 months. Heck, what if you bought a new pen, and there was no ink, just a note saying, ink will be developed and installed as soon as possible? It really is utter BS that we hold mmo companies to such low standards. They have alphas, they have betas, do whatever it takes to get it right or don't launch the game. Or, if you need more players to better test systems, open the beta up to more, or extend it. People use the excuse that they "have" to release it due to money reasons, but guess what, just because a car company wants to release early to help with costs, doesnt mean they ship cars without steering wheels. No excuse to mmo developers.
Oh Holice, that is a terrible analogy. it's clear that you've never worked in an IT environment, nor any environment that build and deploys systems for mass use. Comparing a house, that can be considered 100% finished for one single consumer, to an MMORPG that will forever be evolving and deals with multitudes of enviromental factors is just futile.
At the end of the day, if you buy an MMO and think wholeheartedly that said MMO will launch perfectly, you're setting yourself up for failure. Prepare for the worse, hope for the best. If the MMO does happen to launch smoothly, you'll be happy as can be. If it has bugs, you can shrug and walk outside and enjoy the world (assuming you're not someone who has rested his entire life on the existence of a single MMO).
Well put Tao could not agree more. Self induced , unrealistic expectations are not good for the health.
Developers are real people chill.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I am buying a product. I am not here to make friends with developers or hear their excuses. No one forced them into their line of work, and no one forced the publisher to release unfinished, unpolished products. Nice rant about gamers though. I can't believe customers actually expected finished, working products... the nerve!
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
#2. yeah we as a community kinda do have a pretty good idea of how to fix it. notice how i said WE not I. Not all of as are idiots.
This. Sometimes the players know a lot more than the devs about certain aspects of the game, as the devs simply don't play the game in the same way (if at all)...
5 Things to remember about your customers, thats us
5, We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
4. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
3. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
2. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
1. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
So when we piss you off, which we will, and when we are being unreasonable in our expectations, understand its generally because you make a product we love and want to see grow and improve. It also means we will continue to subscribe and pay your wages.
#2. yeah we as a community kinda do have a pretty good idea of how to fix it. notice how i said WE not I. Not all of as are idiots.
This. Sometimes the players know a lot more than the devs about certain aspects of the game, as the devs simply don't play the game in the same way (if at all)...
It's rarely that simple. More often than not, the "community" of a game will be split on how to fix something, or whether or not something is actually a problem.
In that case, which "community" should be listened to? Which side is the "no-brainer"?
Whichever side doesn't get their way will proclaim "epic fail". Such is the MMO landscape.
Paying for a product does not grant a license to be rude or disrespectful. If you want to speak with your wallet, then speak with your wallet. But don't go and speak with your arse as well. You still need to function within society. Also, we gamers all have varying opinions and point of views. Try to keep in mind that you are not some end-all to opinions.
I used to think devs should be given a lot of latitude when it comes to 'perfection' but any more I think we are in a place where certain things should absolutely be fought against, (with our wallets), by all MMO players. An unfinished game at launch is unforgivable. PERIOD. I understand they are ever changing and don't want a stagnant game, I'm talking about a game that hasn't been fully fleshed out. Broken class mechanics, missing features, any thing promised and not delivered. How many MMO's have been made over the last decade? If the devs, by this point in time, can't figure out how long it will take they need to look for new work. The project manager's first job is being smart enough to know what it takes to begin and end a project. So long as there are consumers willing to waste their money by supporting garbage, devs know they can keep on putting garbage out. So what if a particular dev has a life or is only human. They signed on to make a product. They agreed to a set deadline. Why are they not fired the instant their teams stop producing what they were hired to produce? Say what you want but the construction industry has it right. Cost over runs usually cost you your job. Missed deadlines cost you your job. And more than that, trying being a project manager on an 1100 man high rise crew that continually misses deadlines. That guy gets promoted to assistant store manager at Walmart. As far as I can tell its us that are allowing these losers to keep getting paid.
It's rarely that simple. More often than not, the "community" of a game will be split on how to fix something, or whether or not something is actually a problem.
In that case, which "community" should be listened to? Which side is the "no-brainer"?
Whichever side doesn't get their way will proclaim "epic fail". Such is the MMO landscape.
They'll just have to accept that sometimes the players know better, and see that as a valuable asset. I can't say exactly how they should choose who to listen to, but they should probably identify some worthwhile posters who match the kind of player profile they would like to cater to?
Of course, this requires that the devs have some wiggle room wrt making decisions based on anything other than profit projections, so it's probably a lost cause.
#2. yeah we as a community kinda do have a pretty good idea of how to fix it. notice how i said WE not I. Not all of as are idiots.
This. Sometimes the players know a lot more than the devs about certain aspects of the game, as the devs simply don't play the game in the same way (if at all)...
It's rarely that simple. More often than not, the "community" of a game will be split on how to fix something, or whether or not something is actually a problem.
In that case, which "community" should be listened to? Which side is the "no-brainer"?
Whichever side doesn't get their way will proclaim "epic fail". Such is the MMO landscape.
Its an obvious predicament that the community will differ on what should be fixed and what shouldn't. That is a fact we must deal with as being apart of the human race. Of course its not simple but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective. i believe that within the rubble of bitching and complaining some ideas are full proof and worthy of being considered.
It's rarely that simple. More often than not, the "community" of a game will be split on how to fix something, or whether or not something is actually a problem.
In that case, which "community" should be listened to? Which side is the "no-brainer"?
Whichever side doesn't get their way will proclaim "epic fail". Such is the MMO landscape.
Solid truth there.
And, great article Bill. Certainly seems to have launched quite the discussion...
Like it or nor If it has to be summed up in one sentence that would be:
Originally posted by Kothoses My money pays for your job... without the customers cash, you are nothing.
While, as a project manager that used to work in the video game industry, I would agree with the below statement:
Originally posted by tman5 The game industry is too mature for all these half-assed releases to continue being acceptable. A decade ago, I could see it. Today? No excuse. It's called project management
One should never forget:
Originally posted by Death1942 You have to give the devs a break and instead blame the publishers and their stupid release dates (why release a game early when they have seen so many other games fail because of it)
However MMO players are used to broken code and "badly" designed game plays but
Originally posted by Rommie10-284 It's all about trust. Players have seen too many Developers lie to them knowingly and willingly. It makes the playerbase react badly to any sniff of a breach of trust, even those that are honest mistakes, or misunderstandings. Players were already willing to kick your game to its death for their personal entertainment; giving them a legit reason to loathe you is YOUR FAULT, not theirs. In the end, which side is trying to get the other to pay them cash money?
The article is really nice and nailed most points. Still on the top 5 things listed in this article, I totally disagree with #2 "You Don't Know How to Fix It":
Obviously most players are clueless of all the constraints related to game fixes, but one thing is certain some of them do know the game much better than many of the devs. This because most devs and designers alike are specialised in one or two domains only and the players DO play the game... they even do things the devs never thought of.
Also when they play the game they do know what's the most annoying issue for them. Sadly quite no game implemented in game polls to sort out what players do want.
Lastly too many designers are stuck with the "players don't know what they really need" syndrome.
Finally do like Blizzard: polish, polish, polish and... eat your own dog food (= play your own game)
And for the record, how the %$%$ did you meet my Uncle Ernie? Although admittedly, I will submit to Uncle E rather than sit through Phantom Menace again. Jar Jar? <shudder>
Why is that we should "expect" less than perfection at the release of an MMO? What if you bought a house and there was no kitchen, but the homebuilder said dont worry, Ill have that in there in about 2 months. Heck, what if you bought a new pen, and there was no ink, just a note saying, ink will be developed and installed as soon as possible? It really is utter BS that we hold mmo companies to such low standards. They have alphas, they have betas, do whatever it takes to get it right or don't launch the game. Or, if you need more players to better test systems, open the beta up to more, or extend it. People use the excuse that they "have" to release it due to money reasons, but guess what, just because a car company wants to release early to help with costs, doesnt mean they ship cars without steering wheels. No excuse to mmo developers.
And as far as extended downtime. If its a legitimate unforseeable issue, the community should bear with it. Power outages, short circuits, acts of god, these are things that are extremely hard to predict. However, down time due to patches are unacceptable. Put it up on test servers, put it up on several test servers, fix the problems before it hits live servers. Blizzard is notorious for that, and after all this time, its just unacceptable now, but sadly too many people treat mmo's like other addictions and can't simply drop the game on a whim, and this is why developers take advantage of their player bases, because players are addicts.
Ahh, I see your point. And I think I have an answer for you:
Because an apple isn't the same kind of fruit as an orange.
That help?
As for the why the devs just extend development until its right....because they told the people holding the purse strings they needed more time, and the bean counters said, 'no'.
And by the way, I can assure you that car companies knowingly cut corners to make deadlines and cut costs. Always. Always. And the steering wheel analogy? Not quite right, you see devs do the exact same thing as car companies, they provide a 'functioning' game (for the most part). You can play STO, for example. The classic case of a game that needed more time in the oven. Like an AMC pacer. It is a car that drives, and drives safely. Your analogy should be more like, I got a car and was promised a cup holder, and the cup holder turns out to be cheap because the company cut back to put it on the market on time. You aren't complaining about the steering wheel missing, you are complaining because you don't like the quality of cupholders......
Now if a game was released without avatars, or released with no graphics or simply didn't run at all, your steering wheel analogy may be right - so VG is about as close as you will get, and yet, people (albeit not many) still drove that car.
or perhaps it'd just be easier to say:
Your zeal for how things 'should be' far outweighs your knowledge of how things work.
Yes I think that dev's have a life. However the point in some mmo's the dev devolpes this "I am god attitude" and from that point on they feel the can do no wrong.
I can point at a handfull of games SOE, LOTRO, Warmhammer. Other games have devs that have taken that aproach to where they thing nothing they have done is wrong, and the customer is always wrong and were always right. That is when you have a problem.
Why is that we should "expect" less than perfection at the release of an MMO? What if you bought a house and there was no kitchen, but the homebuilder said dont worry, Ill have that in there in about 2 months. Heck, what if you bought a new pen, and there was no ink, just a note saying, ink will be developed and installed as soon as possible? It really is utter BS that we hold mmo companies to such low standards. They have alphas, they have betas, do whatever it takes to get it right or don't launch the game. Or, if you need more players to better test systems, open the beta up to more, or extend it. People use the excuse that they "have" to release it due to money reasons, but guess what, just because a car company wants to release early to help with costs, doesnt mean they ship cars without steering wheels. No excuse to mmo developers.
And as far as extended downtime. If its a legitimate unforseeable issue, the community should bear with it. Power outages, short circuits, acts of god, these are things that are extremely hard to predict. However, down time due to patches are unacceptable. Put it up on test servers, put it up on several test servers, fix the problems before it hits live servers. Blizzard is notorious for that, and after all this time, its just unacceptable now, but sadly too many people treat mmo's like other addictions and can't simply drop the game on a whim, and this is why developers take advantage of their player bases, because players are addicts.
Ahh, I see your point. And I think I have an answer for you:
Because an apple isn't the same kind of fruit than an orange.
That help?
As for the why the devs just extend development until its right....because they told the people holding the purse strings they needed more time, and the bean counters said, 'no'.
And by the way, I can assure you that car companies knowingly cut corners to make deadlines and cut costs. Always. Always. And the steering wheel analogy? Not quite right, you see devs do the exact same thing as car companies, they provide a 'functioning' game (for the most part). You can play STO, for example. The classic case of a game that needed more time in the oven. Like an AMC pacer. It is a car that drives, and drives safely. You analogy should be more like, I got a car and was promised a cup holder, and the cup holder turns out to be cheap because the company cut back to put it on the market on time. You aren't complaining about the steering wheel missing, you are complaining because you don't like the quality of cupholders......
or perhaps it'd just be easier to say:
Your zeal for how things should be far outweighs your knowledge of how things work.
In some cases that may be true, but there have bee a lot of big, hyped up, supposedly AAA MMOs released lately that are more like, theres a working steering wheel there, but it only turns left, or a cupholder that is too small to fit anything but a dixie cup into, or even a radio that doesnt actually give you the station you set the dial to, so youre stuck randomly hitting numbers trying to find the station you wanted.
Its not a matter of features being there, but not being what we expected, its a matte rof features either being completely left out that were promised, or features being there and just plain not working as they are supposed to due to shoddy/rushed programing & not enough testing, and then taking extended periods of time to fix.
"Like when I found out that my Uncle Ernie was neither really my uncle nor a certified rectal-thermometer tester (joke, people, joke)" Really man? I mean come on ... are you completely stupid? Give me a break.
Comments
It's all about trust. Players have seen too many Developers lie to them knowingly and willingly. It makes the playerbase react badly to any sniff of a breach of trust, even those that are honest mistakes, or misunderstandings. Players were already willing to kick your game to its death for their personal entertainment; giving them a legit reason to loathe you is YOUR FAULT, not theirs. In the end, which side is trying to get the other to pay them cash money?
Avatars are people too
And we are the ones working 3 or 4 hours to pay for that box sale that pays your wages, frankly its a good job you work in art and not any customer facing job as a statement like that would get you fired immediatly.
Now people are annoying, whiney and demanding, but if they are giving you their money for a service you provide you might want to remember that they are the hand that feeds you.
This whole article is a nice grounding for the slavering idiots that do 4 page rants at an extra 5 hours downtime, but its not an excuse to forget the most vital rule of the capitalist world.
My money pays for your job... without the customers cash, you are nothing. Frankly with your attitude I hope you are a damm good artist because you want, need and frankly dont deserve our custom.
There are plenty of legitimate money issues that force games to be released early
I too hate missing features but i think it is more a problem with marketing (too much hype, too much info on underdeveloped parts of the game). That being said the one thing you can't chuck a fit over is bugs on release or trouble with the network. All MMO's have issues on release it is a fact of life and the development of MMO's will never reach perfection. As a poster said above, 50 QA guys are not going to find all the bugs 2000 players.
You have to give the devs a break and instead blame the publishers and their stupid release dates (why release a game early when they have seen so many other games fail because of it)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Let's be clear that I recognize the difference between bugs that somehow escapes detection during beta vs bugs reported in beta and still present in the release, in addition to half-baked features and functions. Many games have these situations and it should be unaccepatble. Yes, Toyota is having a rough time right now, but the vast majority of their cars will start when you turn the key and run for years without problems. Most shuttle launches go without a hitch. Imagine trying to launch one without one of the boosters because it will be "added later."
I also draw a distinction between the initial release and upgrades. Adding content is an upgrade. Fixing bugs is not an upgrade. Games should launch with a fully functional baseline, containing no bugs that were reported in beta. What game launched in the past 6 mos to a year has met that simple criteria?
(BTW I expect the same of any software, even my OS. But, obviously, I have fewer options when it comes to buggy OS. I can, however, choose not purchase a buggy, incomplete game)
"There should be a moratorium declared on all arm-chair designing for games that already have their own development staff being paid to do the job you feel you've gained enough levels to do yourself."
Ouch. *retreats back under a rock*
I think this should have been included in the list:
"Your personal tastes and preferences in MMORPG gaming are NOT unmitigated fact."
While there are some factual problems and omissions present in gaming (systems promised at launch that are missing, severe technical problems), a large number of "problems" some of the more entitlement-prone members of the MMO community cite about games are based on nothing more than personal opinion, taste, or preference. They aren't "factual" problems at all, though such "MMO vets" speak of them as though they are incontrovertible fact, as they also deign to speak for the majority - as if they had some special authority to do so.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Ok i'll bite.
#5. So you expect me to believe that we should all buy incomplete unfinished games and pay a monthly fee for something that is practically a illegitimate beta test? No. Get it right the first time.
#4. I can do better you gonna pay me? give me the resources? no? well....
#3. Do not confuse your own experiences of life with mine. thanks for taking the time to personally make an attempt to insult me. i am flattered.
#2. yeah we as a community kinda do have a pretty good idea of how to fix it. notice how i said WE not I. Not all of as are idiots.
#1. i didn't feel like explaining how todays mmorpg is nothing more than a mindless zombie training cookie cut pile of shit. because if #1 was true we wouldn't have this problem
sorry if i prefer to voice my opinion i usually try to avoid you caped crusaders patrolling the forums trying to prove something to yourselves.
Just play the game, don't try to redesign it.
Respect!!
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well put Tao could not agree more. Self induced , unrealistic expectations are not good for the health.
Developers are real people chill.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I am buying a product. I am not here to make friends with developers or hear their excuses. No one forced them into their line of work, and no one forced the publisher to release unfinished, unpolished products. Nice rant about gamers though. I can't believe customers actually expected finished, working products... the nerve!
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
This. Sometimes the players know a lot more than the devs about certain aspects of the game, as the devs simply don't play the game in the same way (if at all)...
5 Things to remember about your customers, thats us
5, We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
4. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
3. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
2. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
1. We buy the games and pay the subscriptions that your publisher needs to pay your wages.
So when we piss you off, which we will, and when we are being unreasonable in our expectations, understand its generally because you make a product we love and want to see grow and improve. It also means we will continue to subscribe and pay your wages.
It's rarely that simple. More often than not, the "community" of a game will be split on how to fix something, or whether or not something is actually a problem.
In that case, which "community" should be listened to? Which side is the "no-brainer"?
Whichever side doesn't get their way will proclaim "epic fail". Such is the MMO landscape.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Paying for a product does not grant a license to be rude or disrespectful. If you want to speak with your wallet, then speak with your wallet. But don't go and speak with your arse as well. You still need to function within society. Also, we gamers all have varying opinions and point of views. Try to keep in mind that you are not some end-all to opinions.
Great uncle joke. Great article.
I used to think devs should be given a lot of latitude when it comes to 'perfection' but any more I think we are in a place where certain things should absolutely be fought against, (with our wallets), by all MMO players. An unfinished game at launch is unforgivable. PERIOD. I understand they are ever changing and don't want a stagnant game, I'm talking about a game that hasn't been fully fleshed out. Broken class mechanics, missing features, any thing promised and not delivered. How many MMO's have been made over the last decade? If the devs, by this point in time, can't figure out how long it will take they need to look for new work. The project manager's first job is being smart enough to know what it takes to begin and end a project. So long as there are consumers willing to waste their money by supporting garbage, devs know they can keep on putting garbage out. So what if a particular dev has a life or is only human. They signed on to make a product. They agreed to a set deadline. Why are they not fired the instant their teams stop producing what they were hired to produce? Say what you want but the construction industry has it right. Cost over runs usually cost you your job. Missed deadlines cost you your job. And more than that, trying being a project manager on an 1100 man high rise crew that continually misses deadlines. That guy gets promoted to assistant store manager at Walmart. As far as I can tell its us that are allowing these losers to keep getting paid.
They'll just have to accept that sometimes the players know better, and see that as a valuable asset. I can't say exactly how they should choose who to listen to, but they should probably identify some worthwhile posters who match the kind of player profile they would like to cater to?
Of course, this requires that the devs have some wiggle room wrt making decisions based on anything other than profit projections, so it's probably a lost cause.
Its an obvious predicament that the community will differ on what should be fixed and what shouldn't. That is a fact we must deal with as being apart of the human race. Of course its not simple but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective. i believe that within the rubble of bitching and complaining some ideas are full proof and worthy of being considered.
Solid truth there.
And, great article Bill. Certainly seems to have launched quite the discussion...
Like it or nor If it has to be summed up in one sentence that would be:
While, as a project manager that used to work in the video game industry, I would agree with the below statement:
One should never forget:
However MMO players are used to broken code and "badly" designed game plays but
The article is really nice and nailed most points. Still on the top 5 things listed in this article, I totally disagree with #2 "You Don't Know How to Fix It":
Obviously most players are clueless of all the constraints related to game fixes, but one thing is certain some of them do know the game much better than many of the devs. This because most devs and designers alike are specialised in one or two domains only and the players DO play the game... they even do things the devs never thought of.
Also when they play the game they do know what's the most annoying issue for them.
Sadly quite no game implemented in game polls to sort out what players do want.
Lastly too many designers are stuck with the "players don't know what they really need" syndrome.
Finally do like Blizzard: polish, polish, polish and... eat your own dog food (= play your own game)
Excellent article, Bill. Thanks for the insights!
And for the record, how the %$%$ did you meet my Uncle Ernie? Although admittedly, I will submit to Uncle E rather than sit through Phantom Menace again. Jar Jar? <shudder>
Ahh, I see your point. And I think I have an answer for you:
Because an apple isn't the same kind of fruit as an orange.
That help?
As for the why the devs just extend development until its right....because they told the people holding the purse strings they needed more time, and the bean counters said, 'no'.
And by the way, I can assure you that car companies knowingly cut corners to make deadlines and cut costs. Always. Always. And the steering wheel analogy? Not quite right, you see devs do the exact same thing as car companies, they provide a 'functioning' game (for the most part). You can play STO, for example. The classic case of a game that needed more time in the oven. Like an AMC pacer. It is a car that drives, and drives safely. Your analogy should be more like, I got a car and was promised a cup holder, and the cup holder turns out to be cheap because the company cut back to put it on the market on time. You aren't complaining about the steering wheel missing, you are complaining because you don't like the quality of cupholders......
Now if a game was released without avatars, or released with no graphics or simply didn't run at all, your steering wheel analogy may be right - so VG is about as close as you will get, and yet, people (albeit not many) still drove that car.
or perhaps it'd just be easier to say:
Your zeal for how things 'should be' far outweighs your knowledge of how things work.
Yes I think that dev's have a life. However the point in some mmo's the dev devolpes this "I am god attitude" and from that point on they feel the can do no wrong.
I can point at a handfull of games SOE, LOTRO, Warmhammer. Other games have devs that have taken that aproach to where they thing nothing they have done is wrong, and the customer is always wrong and were always right. That is when you have a problem.
In some cases that may be true, but there have bee a lot of big, hyped up, supposedly AAA MMOs released lately that are more like, theres a working steering wheel there, but it only turns left, or a cupholder that is too small to fit anything but a dixie cup into, or even a radio that doesnt actually give you the station you set the dial to, so youre stuck randomly hitting numbers trying to find the station you wanted.
Its not a matter of features being there, but not being what we expected, its a matte rof features either being completely left out that were promised, or features being there and just plain not working as they are supposed to due to shoddy/rushed programing & not enough testing, and then taking extended periods of time to fix.
"Like when I found out that my Uncle Ernie was neither really my uncle nor a certified rectal-thermometer tester (joke, people, joke)" Really man? I mean come on ... are you completely stupid? Give me a break.