Before anyone calls me a carebear let me make something clear. I was in the first gulf war on the front lines. My sibling just got back from Iraq in May and I had to spend every day for 14 months watching soldiers being killed and wondering if I was now an only child. If you want to experience Real PvP, get off you computer chair, grow a pair and defend your country.
After experiencing it in Real Life, I dont really care for it in a game I am trying to enjoy. Some say that PvP is the ultimate challenge, and that the people who complain about it aren't any good at it. Over the past few years AI has improved and has become a lot more challenging. I fail to see how jumping on someone who doesnt have a snowballs chance in the desert is a challenge.
This is how I see it. The people that want truely open PvP are the ones that want to grief low levels. The people that get the most joy out of PvP are the power gamers who have leveled through most of the content of the game and want a reason to keep playing it. Some would say that its fun and challenging knowing there's a person on the other side of the toon you just beat up. I say you get your jollies by making someone else angry and frustrated.
I dont have any problems with consensual PvP. It means those who want it can have at it, and those that dont, dont have to. It's those that whine about needing to have completely open PvP that bother me. If you had to live it for REAL you wouldn't want it in a GAME that you are trying to enjoy.
a few googd things are: 1.you kan compete with your friends from the "real" world. 2. You kan organise tournaments(with prices) as a clan. 3. if someone is insulting you you kan kick his *ss. 4. It's something different for a change.
Originally posted by aiwntrmute People who complain about PVP are the ones that suck at PVP.
I don't suck at PVP:) I can exploit and gank and kill, whatever is required by the game. I play Plaetside and rock at it in my adv BFR:)
It's rather that I don't enjoy the constant risk of being ganked cheaply. Fair pvp I have no problem with. Unfair PVP isn't something I really enjoy(But am good at, as I am utterly ruthless) I just prefer not to have that side of my personality come out.
Open PVP I have never seen done 'right' which is to say that there has never been enough anti-incentives to actually make people NOT pvp. Am looking foreward to WoW but won't be playine on the open pvp servers.
Originally posted by GumbyX Open PvP does nothing but invite griefing. Sure there are a lot of people that like the challenge, but for every one of you there is five more that get their kicks griefing those unable to defend themselves. If they made it where the last five levels to the current level cap trigger open pvp or something like that, I think it would work.
That is a misconception. For every 19 people you meet who won't gank you there is 1 you'll meet that will.
Really the griefer population never exceeds 5% in any given game, the problem is that that 5% is much too high. 5% means that 1 in 20 people you meet will gank you if they can. How many people do you pass by in an average MMORPG day? 20? 40? 80? Probaly the average is around 40. So every day you play the game you will meet 2 people who will kill you just because. Given the law of averages, assuming you and they are average gamers, one of those 2 who will be willing to gank you will be able to.
So every day you play the game you will get ganked once.
Ever in war-torn Darfur or NAZI germany the ratio of people who will kill you that you meet daily isn't that high. Open PVP without ulta-harsh antiincentives does not represent Chaos or Anarchy or War, it represents something far far worse. There is no parallel in the real world because that state of being has never come into existance for any prolonged period in human history. When it has(A cabal of barbarians rapeing and pillaging a town comes to mind) typically the victim population is destroyed utterly withen weeks. Such a state cannont exist for long, and it does not in any game we hav eseen.
i'd greatly favor open pvp .. but nobody has devised a good system yet in any modern mmorpg. An ideal system would be a rewards-based one. this would apply to any mmorpg genre (fantasy, space-sim, etc). If you're a newbie, there would be an organization of players that act as 'police' and patrol newbie areas. They will be heavily rewarded for saving new players from 'griefers'. Other players could be paid off as mercenaries or bounty hunters. If you have a system of rewards for these players that is great enough, you will have people filling these roles. PKs would have to be careful and stealthy, wear disguises, stalk in the shadows before lashing out, because there could be a patrol of powerful players marching down the trail at any moment - or maybe they are being trailed by an 'undercover' player or spy. Griefers would go from being 'griefers' to being 'assassins', and the whole dynamic would change.
Worried about large worlds and the fact that maybe player 'police' won't get there in time? Well, a few things. 1) this is what happens in the real world 2) it's a freaking game, devise a system - low level players can buy/receive amulets that summon the player police to their aid, any police that have that option enabled: "respond to distress call" or something. Getting stalked by a PK? Run like hell, grab your amulet, and suddenly six high level police warp in to save your ass. There are so many ways to handle this.
I used to play a MUD -ages- ago that had a similar system. You could attack any player at any time. Did innocents get slaughtered? Yes. But not nearly as many as you would imagine. The vast majority of players were free to solo/party against NPCs under the protection of a watchful player guard and bounty hunters. It was a very, very cool dynamic that almost every modern MMORPG lacks. There was so much player-to-player interaction it felt like a real world, not just a bunch of humans acting like bots running around doing repetetive tasks the entire time and not interacting.
EVE:Online comes close, but they still have the deus ex machina of the 'concord' system .. fleets of NPCs that swoop down to kill PKs in certain areas of the game.
as soon as a game comes out with this system i'm there.
Pvp is the only fun thing in a MMORPG. It's the only real challenge. Fightning unintelligent mobs that are all the same is soooo boooring. Do you like killing the same stupid monsters (just different models) over and over again? I just don't get it......
Exactly, the depth and challenge it adds are unparalleled. No PVE game will match up to a PVP enabled game of comprible design. Thus players who don't have the constitution to handle frusterating defeats and setbacks in-game will always go to the PVE server where they are in complete control of their situation and where they only risk death when they feel like it usually for some tangible reward. The only PVE players who hold any respect of mine are the end-game players who tackle raids WITHOUT walk-throughs.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik." http://www.lp.org Valar- 17summoner - Guk Server
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
pvp is fine if it is played in the way the code is designed for. for soloplayer or casual players it takes really a long time to investigate how to surveive attacks of gankers who are just sitting at bottlenecks/highways to assault innocent, unaware virgins in the game. like in the real world the motto "watch ure back or get some strong buddies" is imperative. without scouting even that is still a huge risk. sadly i met so many "powerplayers" over the last 2 decades in dozends of games who are bending and exploiting the games to get an advantage (or just to get the attention of others like a teenager tries to impress his girlfriend) that sometimes there is no other choice then to unsub them. it is somehow like the viruscreators and the AV-Companies. those peeps are just too resourceful to find new exploits quicker then the developer can close the holes. Because they are bragging with it others follow them like lemmings and therefor kill the game as a whole. gladly i found a perfect game which doesn't eleminate all problems but they are so insignificant and the majority is matur enough that i really have fun there. 8}
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik." http://www.lp.org Valar- 17summoner - Guk Server
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
Xenteko, the point I was trying to make is that some people have actually lived in a setting that is basically PvP, except that in real life you dont get a new body with only a loss of experience points. I see post's about perma-death being something that would monitor PvP, players acting as guards/scouts for a fee to protect the new players, etc. What I am saying is I have a very valid reason for not wanting to play a game always watching my back. I dont want to play a game and get jacked by some stuck up powergamer, that has exploited the game to give himself an unfair advantage and gets his kicks by messing up my day. I dont want to play a game where you cant trust anyone, because maybe even those guards you hired are just waiting till you get out of town to attack you. Where everyone lies about something just to get you where they want you. How does that system support community? Yes a few rotten apples will spoil the bunch in this case. How can you trust anyone with anything? Sorry, I lived it. Its not fun. Its not a game. Its real and something most of you people that want the experience of combating another player in game have never had. If you have had to live it, you wouldnt want it in a game you are trying to enjoy.
Originally posted by MasterChaos How does that system support community? Yes a few rotten apples will spoil the bunch in this case. How can you trust anyone with anything? Sorry, I lived it. Its not fun. Its not a game.
The greatest communities I have EVER witnessed or been a part of have been in pvp environments where your friends helped keep you sane/alive ingame and you could depend on eachother. The non-pvp communities I've experienced on the other hand have been good for nothing but showing off equipment and the occasional spec advice.
A few "rotten apples" don't spoil anything, they just make your friends that much more important and the game that much more exciting.
As far as your tramatic life experiences ruining adversarial fantasy environments for you... don't know what to say to that, hope you have a good counselor.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik." http://www.lp.org Still waiting for my next mmorpg...
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
Originally posted by shaggyfrog77 Where r u hard core PvPers? Please tell me where I am missing all the fun. Is it picking on someone smaller than you? Or is it getting PKed down to lvl 1 and having to do everything over again? I just dont get it.....
Well, Im not a hard core PvPer but from the roleplay community. Part of the enjoyment is actually being able to war with the enemy. Wars create player interaction, stories and tension. Using stealth and intel to move into the enemies territory for a raid. Great fun and a challenge which PvE just doesn't give. Once you work out the weakness of an AI character then you just repeat over and over. No challenge whatsoever.
this isn't FULL ON open PVP .. but a system that could work is let you PVP any player within a certain level range. in a game with a level cap of 100, you can pvp people 10 levels below and 10 levels above. or, maybe you can pvp just 10 levels below, but no upward bound, to reward extreme risk.
so a gang of level 100s could terrorize a party of level 90 people, but they couldn't go and obliterate all the newbies with those characters.
i'm still partial to fully open PVP with a system of great rewards for players that choose to act as 'guardians' 'police' 'bounty hunters' 'mercenaries' whatever, that serve and protect players not so keen on pvp or not yet able to defend themselves.
I love all the references to carebears when referring to people who don't like pvp. It's like real life you say?? I say wrong. In real life, there are real consequences for smacking someone, stabbing someone, stealing from someone etc. The only open pvp game I'd truly consider is one with mechanisms like Dragon Empires or I believe D&L. In dragon empires if you kill someone without offering a duel challenge, you are made an outlaw, you have a mark on your head and any bounty hunter can take your scalp for a reward, IF the guardian dragons or city guards don't get you first. That's realistic. You want to grief, then you pay the consequences. Under such circumstances I think I'd love open pvp, because just like Real life, the idiots would get sick of being on the run constantly and having zero fun because they would be the hunted not the hunter.
I also personally see no issue with guilds which wish to war type pvp if the members so choose, or city vs city or clan vs clan, depending on the game. This type of organized war can be fun and you are ready for it and can swear off it if so desired, just quit the guild if you decide you don't like it.
FYI I happen to practice a martial art, collect guns, knives and swords and wear a traditional woolen Kilt in my clan's colors to big events. Thus I'm not a carebear because I don't like people being idiot griefers. And I do understand that there are cool pvp'ers out there, just most of the time that's the minority. Hopefully, some game manufacturer will come up with a great open pvp system, but thus far, none exist in a released game IMO.
i love pvp...i understand as i have played games where lvl 60+'s came and killed me at lvl 10 and i started delevling till i was lvl 5 sucks...i dont play games like that anymore lol...losing exp to another real life person is not cosh with me anymore..to a mob ya...not to a person
you say pvp sucks and the MAIN servers shouldnt be pvp...look at most morpgs the reason the "MAIN" server is pvp is cause MAINLY people want to pvp :P lol
You should try checking the facts first eakaos... I'll just use one MMO as an example, in EQ there was (1) pure pvp server, (2) pvp teams servers and like 40 normal servers... Yah really looks like there are more pvp'ers than those who wish to play without being harrassed...
If I'm not mistaken Eve is open PvP (if you can escape CONCORD), you can shoot at everything that moves but have to live with the consequences when you do. Like being hunted down by npc police gank squads (yes gank squad full of npc) and being forced in the lower security level systems where other players can attack without being ganked. So this way the real gankers get together in the same corner.
_____________________________________________________ "If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
Originally posted by GumbyX Open PvP does nothing but invite griefing. Sure there are a lot of people that like the challenge, but for every one of you there is five more that get their kicks griefing those unable to defend themselves. If they made it where the last five levels to the current level cap trigger open pvp or something like that, I think it would work.
That is a misconception. For every 19 people you meet who won't gank you there is 1 you'll meet that will.
Really the griefer population never exceeds 5% in any given game, the problem is that that 5% is much too high. 5% means that 1 in 20 people you meet will gank you if they can. How many people do you pass by in an average MMORPG day? 20? 40? 80? Probaly the average is around 40. So every day you play the game you will meet 2 people who will kill you just because. Given the law of averages, assuming you and they are average gamers, one of those 2 who will be willing to gank you will be able to.
So every day you play the game you will get ganked once.
Ever in war-torn Darfur or NAZI germany the ratio of people who will kill you that you meet daily isn't that high. Open PVP without ulta-harsh antiincentives does not represent Chaos or Anarchy or War, it represents something far far worse. There is no parallel in the real world because that state of being has never come into existance for any prolonged period in human history. When it has(A cabal of barbarians rapeing and pillaging a town comes to mind) typically the victim population is destroyed utterly withen weeks. Such a state cannont exist for long, and it does not in any game we hav eseen.
I'm sorry. I do understand that it feels like there are more idiot gankers than there really are. Let me give the answer I should have given.
I personally do not like to be forced to PvP in MMORPG's. I have FPS's and starcraft for that. I also don't like it when PvP forces changes in class balance that were not applicable in PvE, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth for PvP. Also, if I get punished for PvP'ing (losing a key item that was hard to get, losing hours upon hours of xp (lost 22% once in lin 2, not exaggerating. You aren't supposed to lose more than 10%), it just makes me want to PvP less. I've become weaker, why would I chance it again? Pass.
You are missing the whole point of PvP. Its not supposed to be fair. When you give the rights of the people, the game makes itself. The strong picking on the weak is as old a scenario as dirt. That is the main challenge to it all. I cant stand the game play where its "really pretty" and the AI is easily predictable. Shadowbane had a great concept but implemented the right things to late. I personally am hoping that Darkfall doesnt fall off of production because it seems like its taking the shortfalls of SB and making it right. This is just my opinion. PvP also sets you up for unique epic moments that PvE cant give you. If one person has done it then someone else can do it also in PvE. In shadowbane, which is my only good comparison to pure PvP, there is nothing more thrilling then The bane on Aleria or Atilla vs felony. These moments cant be made by AI. If the game just would have run smoother, less crashes and less cheating.
I love PvP !!! The only thing that bugs me more then getting ganked by a group of PvPers, are people who cry about getting ganked by a group of PvPers. When I buy a game to play, I know what its about... I buy it knowing what can happen,,, then I imagine a bunch of 13 year olds playing and decide if I would wanna play with them.
You non-pvpers need to all go back to EQ, thats the bottom line cuz I just said so
Comments
Before anyone calls me a carebear let me make something clear. I was in the first gulf war on the front lines. My sibling just got back from Iraq in May and I had to spend every day for 14 months watching soldiers being killed and wondering if I was now an only child. If you want to experience Real PvP, get off you computer chair, grow a pair and defend your country.
After experiencing it in Real Life, I dont really care for it in a game I am trying to enjoy. Some say that PvP is the ultimate challenge, and that the people who complain about it aren't any good at it. Over the past few years AI has improved and has become a lot more challenging. I fail to see how jumping on someone who doesnt have a snowballs chance in the desert is a challenge.
This is how I see it. The people that want truely open PvP are the ones that want to grief low levels. The people that get the most joy out of PvP are the power gamers who have leveled through most of the content of the game and want a reason to keep playing it. Some would say that its fun and challenging knowing there's a person on the other side of the toon you just beat up. I say you get your jollies by making someone else angry and frustrated.
I dont have any problems with consensual PvP. It means those who want it can have at it, and those that dont, dont have to. It's those that whine about needing to have completely open PvP that bother me. If you had to live it for REAL you wouldn't want it in a GAME that you are trying to enjoy.
By 'defend' you mean attack a helpless nation because you want thier vast oil supplys ?
Ahh, so THAT'S what defend means...
The more I see of people, the more I appreciate my dogs
The more I see of people, the more I appreciate my dogs
a few googd things are:
1.you kan compete with your friends from the "real" world.
2. You kan organise tournaments(with prices) as a clan.
3. if someone is insulting you you kan kick his *ss.
4. It's something different for a change.
That's a few good things I think.
i'd greatly favor open pvp .. but nobody has devised a good system yet in any modern mmorpg. An ideal system would be a rewards-based one. this would apply to any mmorpg genre (fantasy, space-sim, etc). If you're a newbie, there would be an organization of players that act as 'police' and patrol newbie areas. They will be heavily rewarded for saving new players from 'griefers'. Other players could be paid off as mercenaries or bounty hunters. If you have a system of rewards for these players that is great enough, you will have people filling these roles. PKs would have to be careful and stealthy, wear disguises, stalk in the shadows before lashing out, because there could be a patrol of powerful players marching down the trail at any moment - or maybe they are being trailed by an 'undercover' player or spy. Griefers would go from being 'griefers' to being 'assassins', and the whole dynamic would change.
Worried about large worlds and the fact that maybe player 'police' won't get there in time? Well, a few things. 1) this is what happens in the real world 2) it's a freaking game, devise a system - low level players can buy/receive amulets that summon the player police to their aid, any police that have that option enabled: "respond to distress call" or something. Getting stalked by a PK? Run like hell, grab your amulet, and suddenly six high level police warp in to save your ass. There are so many ways to handle this.
I used to play a MUD -ages- ago that had a similar system. You could attack any player at any time. Did innocents get slaughtered? Yes. But not nearly as many as you would imagine. The vast majority of players were free to solo/party against NPCs under the protection of a watchful player guard and bounty hunters. It was a very, very cool dynamic that almost every modern MMORPG lacks. There was so much player-to-player interaction it felt like a real world, not just a bunch of humans acting like bots running around doing repetetive tasks the entire time and not interacting.
EVE:Online comes close, but they still have the deus ex machina of the 'concord' system .. fleets of NPCs that swoop down to kill PKs in certain areas of the game.
as soon as a game comes out with this system i'm there.
dxtx
[quote]Originally posted by Zimok
Pvp is the only fun thing in a MMORPG. It's the only real challenge. Fightning unintelligent mobs that are all the same is soooo boooring. Do you like killing the same stupid monsters (just different models) over and over again? I just don't get it......
---------------------------------
Zimok - PS - Emerald
Zimok - WoW - PvP Server
Zimok - SWG - Bloodfin[/b][/quote]
Exactly, the depth and challenge it adds are unparalleled. No PVE game will match up to a PVP enabled game of comprible design. Thus players who don't have the constitution to handle frusterating defeats and setbacks in-game will always go to the PVE server where they are in complete control of their situation and where they only risk death when they feel like it usually for some tangible reward. The only PVE players who hold any respect of mine are the end-game players who tackle raids WITHOUT walk-throughs.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik."
http://www.lp.org
Valar- 17summoner - Guk Server
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
well..well here it goes again....
pvp is fine if it is played in the way the code is designed for. for soloplayer or casual players it takes really a long time to investigate how to surveive attacks of gankers who are just sitting at bottlenecks/highways to assault innocent, unaware virgins in the game. like in the real world the motto "watch ure back or get some strong buddies" is imperative. without scouting even that is still a huge risk.
sadly i met so many "powerplayers" over the last 2 decades in dozends of games who are bending and exploiting the games to get an advantage (or just to get the attention of others like a teenager tries to impress his girlfriend) that sometimes there is no other choice then to unsub them. it is somehow like the viruscreators and the AV-Companies. those peeps are just too resourceful to find new exploits quicker then the developer can close the holes. Because they are bragging with it others follow them like lemmings and therefor kill the game as a whole.
gladly i found a perfect game which doesn't eleminate all problems but they are so insignificant and the majority is matur enough that i really have fun there. 8}
And this game is?
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik."
http://www.lp.org
Valar- 17summoner - Guk Server
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
Xenteko, the point I was trying to make is that some people have actually lived in a setting that is basically PvP, except that in real life you dont get a new body with only a loss of experience points. I see post's about perma-death being something that would monitor PvP, players acting as guards/scouts for a fee to protect the new players, etc. What I am saying is I have a very valid reason for not wanting to play a game always watching my back. I dont want to play a game and get jacked by some stuck up powergamer, that has exploited the game to give himself an unfair advantage and gets his kicks by messing up my day. I dont want to play a game where you cant trust anyone, because maybe even those guards you hired are just waiting till you get out of town to attack you. Where everyone lies about something just to get you where they want you. How does that system support community? Yes a few rotten apples will spoil the bunch in this case. How can you trust anyone with anything? Sorry, I lived it. Its not fun. Its not a game. Its real and something most of you people that want the experience of combating another player in game have never had. If you have had to live it, you wouldnt want it in a game you are trying to enjoy.
The greatest communities I have EVER witnessed or been a part of have been in pvp environments where your friends helped keep you sane/alive ingame and you could depend on eachother. The non-pvp communities I've experienced on the other hand have been good for nothing but showing off equipment and the occasional spec advice.
A few "rotten apples" don't spoil anything, they just make your friends that much more important and the game that much more exciting.
As far as your tramatic life experiences ruining adversarial fantasy environments for you... don't know what to say to that, hope you have a good counselor.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik."
http://www.lp.org
Still waiting for my next mmorpg...
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
this isn't FULL ON open PVP .. but a system that could work is let you PVP any player within a certain level range. in a game with a level cap of 100, you can pvp people 10 levels below and 10 levels above. or, maybe you can pvp just 10 levels below, but no upward bound, to reward extreme risk.
so a gang of level 100s could terrorize a party of level 90 people, but they couldn't go and obliterate all the newbies with those characters.
i'm still partial to fully open PVP with a system of great rewards for players that choose to act as 'guardians' 'police' 'bounty hunters' 'mercenaries' whatever, that serve and protect players not so keen on pvp or not yet able to defend themselves.
dxtx
I love all the references to carebears when referring to people who don't like pvp. It's like real life you say?? I say wrong. In real life, there are real consequences for smacking someone, stabbing someone, stealing from someone etc. The only open pvp game I'd truly consider is one with mechanisms like Dragon Empires or I believe D&L. In dragon empires if you kill someone without offering a duel challenge, you are made an outlaw, you have a mark on your head and any bounty hunter can take your scalp for a reward, IF the guardian dragons or city guards don't get you first. That's realistic. You want to grief, then you pay the consequences. Under such circumstances I think I'd love open pvp, because just like Real life, the idiots would get sick of being on the run constantly and having zero fun because they would be the hunted not the hunter.
I also personally see no issue with guilds which wish to war type pvp if the members so choose, or city vs city or clan vs clan, depending on the game. This type of organized war can be fun and you are ready for it and can swear off it if so desired, just quit the guild if you decide you don't like it.
FYI I happen to practice a martial art, collect guns, knives and swords and wear a traditional woolen Kilt in my clan's colors to big events. Thus I'm not a carebear because I don't like people being idiot griefers. And I do understand that there are cool pvp'ers out there, just most of the time that's the minority. Hopefully, some game manufacturer will come up with a great open pvp system, but thus far, none exist in a released game IMO.
Tacklebury --}>>>
ermm that /pvp thing is for the pcp servers, not the normal ones
-----------------------
....must ....play .....WoW
i love pvp...i understand as i have played games where lvl 60+'s came and killed me at lvl 10 and i started delevling till i was lvl 5 sucks...i dont play games like that anymore lol...losing exp to another real life person is not cosh with me anymore..to a mob ya...not to a person
you say pvp sucks and the MAIN servers shouldnt be pvp...look at most morpgs the reason the "MAIN" server is pvp is cause MAINLY people want to pvp :P lol
Tacklebury --}>>>
If I'm not mistaken Eve is open PvP (if you can escape CONCORD), you can shoot at everything that moves but have to live with the consequences when you do. Like being hunted down by npc police gank squads (yes gank squad full of npc) and being forced in the lower security level systems where other players can attack without being ganked. So this way the real gankers get together in the same corner.
_____________________________________________________
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
That is a misconception. For every 19 people you meet who won't gank you there is 1 you'll meet that will.
Really the griefer population never exceeds 5% in any given game, the problem is that that 5% is much too high. 5% means that 1 in 20 people you meet will gank you if they can. How many people do you pass by in an average MMORPG day? 20? 40? 80? Probaly the average is around 40. So every day you play the game you will meet 2 people who will kill you just because. Given the law of averages, assuming you and they are average gamers, one of those 2 who will be willing to gank you will be able to.
So every day you play the game you will get ganked once.
Ever in war-torn Darfur or NAZI germany the ratio of people who will kill you that you meet daily isn't that high. Open PVP without ulta-harsh antiincentives does not represent Chaos or Anarchy or War, it represents something far far worse. There is no parallel in the real world because that state of being has never come into existance for any prolonged period in human history. When it has(A cabal of barbarians rapeing and pillaging a town comes to mind) typically the victim population is destroyed utterly withen weeks. Such a state cannont exist for long, and it does not in any game we hav eseen.
I'm sorry. I do understand that it feels like there are more idiot gankers than there really are. Let me give the answer I should have given.
I personally do not like to be forced to PvP in MMORPG's. I have FPS's and starcraft for that. I also don't like it when PvP forces changes in class balance that were not applicable in PvE, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth for PvP. Also, if I get punished for PvP'ing (losing a key item that was hard to get, losing hours upon hours of xp (lost 22% once in lin 2, not exaggerating. You aren't supposed to lose more than 10%), it just makes me want to PvP less. I've become weaker, why would I chance it again? Pass.
oops...i entered this post without reading the rest...my bad but still my opinion
I love PvP !!!
The only thing that bugs me more then getting ganked by a group of PvPers, are people who cry about getting ganked by a group of PvPers.
When I buy a game to play, I know what its about... I buy it knowing what can happen,,, then I imagine a bunch of 13 year olds playing and decide if I would wanna play with them. 
You non-pvpers need to all go back to EQ, thats the bottom line cuz I just said so
Die Hard, Live Harder !
Die Hard, Live Harder !