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Beta testers not even playing

2

Comments

  • kitcat54321kitcat54321 Member Posts: 3

    You make me laugh.   Why would you whine about a game that is totally in beta?  The developers tell you this.  Don't you know how to read?  It's not in fine print.  I found it very easy to log in and test.

  • zephar123zephar123 Member UncommonPosts: 70

    Originally posted by kitcat54321

    You make me laugh.   Why would you whine about a game that is totally in beta?  The developers tell you this.  Don't you know how to read?  It's not in fine print.  I found it very easy to log in and test.

    /signed

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087

    Originally posted by kitcat54321

    You make me laugh.   Why would you whine about a game that is totally in beta?  The developers tell you this.  Don't you know how to read?  It's not in fine print.  I found it very easy to log in and test.

     Preorders are a double edged sword.  On the upside, it helps to fund development.  On the downside, it causes some people to feel cheated if things don't meet their expectations.

  • All the OP wants is to spread negativity. He did that in another thread already. If he doesn't like what he sees so far, he should either wait or move on.

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Thomas2006

    Sounds like it's going to be another fail game because testers think they are "playing" a game and not testing a game. It's sad when the developers have to ask the testers to login and test the game. Regardless if theres anything to do in the game other then stand around and chat.  You signup up to "test" the game regardless the form the game currently is in. If you do not wish to test the game then you should turn in your testing spot so they can find more people that wish to actually help test the game and get these issues fixed.

     

    Sadly things like this are the exact reasion why a good portion of companies are doing away with testing done by the general public and instead putting more effort into internal testing and local testing group sessions.

    It's just a matter of time until Beta Testing is all but done away with.

     

    Most beta tests I've seen over the last couple of years have been more pre game hype than actual  test.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • HrothmundHrothmund Member Posts: 1,061

    Originally posted by zephar123

    Originally posted by kitcat54321

    You make me laugh.   Why would you whine about a game that is totally in beta?  The developers tell you this.  Don't you know how to read?  It's not in fine print.  I found it very easy to log in and test.

    /signed

    As I said earlier, when a game or other software goes into public beta, it needs to offer enough incentive to the testers to keep them playing/trying out the product.

     

    Most of the bug-hunting and major environment specific configuration issues should be ironed out by the developers QA team before a game hits public testing.

     

    If there is not incentive to test the software, people won't, word of mouth about how bad things are will spread, and the game will tank.

     

    Simple as that, I think 'but its beta' is not a valid argument. SC2 is in beta, yet the game is in great shape. When WoW was in beta it had major issues, but it was still fun enough to keep the testers at it. Aion US/EU beta was relatively smooth.

     

    My point is, you can already see how feasible a game is in beta, the 'but this is beta' defense is getting old fast.

  • nutsoddsnutsodds Member Posts: 89

    tans caps tants barrets

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    This is the way mmo testing and sales should work in my opinion:

     

    Alpha = getting systems in order, deciding on features.

    Closed beta = bringing in people to test those features for reliablity and practicality, removing things that just are not feasible or practical to do, thoroughly testing the remaining systems and features.

    Open beta = last chance to add or remove features, allowing players to come in for a "preview", while using their presence to test server load capablity, and to refine earlier tested features under load, this is the period when the release candidate should be finalized.

    Pre-order = during the open beta phase AFTER most stress testing and polishing has been completed.

    gold = at  least 3 weeks AFTER preorders have been announced and only  when stress testing, bug squashing, and optimization has been achieved to at least 95% completion so that those pre-ordering can feel confident in their decision, while also having a chance to "back out" of their pre-order before release, therefore limiting possible refund hassles after release due to pre-order purchasers feeling they were "baited and switched", lied to, or otherwise deceived.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,074

    There is an accepted standard for terms like "alpha", "beta", etc, in the real software world. Here is the basic progression:

    - requirements document -- this is the first step where the basic requirements are stated. Like, it is an MMO, aimed at XYZ market, expected to bring in $$$ amount, using ABC servers. The XYZ market (let's say fantasy) means eleves, dwarves, etc. Crafting is included.

    - product specification -- this is where the needs are translated into concrete actions. Elves will look like this, will have certain abilities, come from their homeland, etc. Crafting takes specific "tables", so a blacksmith needs a forge for example. Here are the commands to make a hammer at the forge, etc.

    - initial coding, then, alpha test -- this is testing the features from the spec. Using a forge, a blacksmith can create a hammer using these commands. It works! These features are usually tested individually. The alpha code has the features, and is compiled together, but nobody expects everything to work.

    - beta test -- all the features are in the code, and they all worked in alpha test. Beta code is tested for lots of "corner cases", like, can a blacksmith create a hammer at a forge? (yes) at a sewing station? (better be no), while in combat? (might need more testing). For an MMO, this means the game is running, and can be played. There are probably a lot of situatuions that have bugs, and need testing and fixing.

    - systems load test -- this means the beta is mostly done, and now you run it in actual real situations. For an MMO, this would mean letting lots of people in, testing the load the servers can take, the login server, what happens when it crashes, etc. No new features are added, and the game is complete except for balancing and performance.

    So, if you are in a real beta, the game should be mostly complete, and what they need is testing of the corner cases. So try everything you can: can you make the hammer while jumping? What if you leave some ingredients on the ground, will the hammer get made anyway? What if your pack is full? You are not "playing" the game.

    Nobody should ever pay to play in a real beta. If you pay something, expect to get into the game during the final load tests, where there are no more new features. and the game is complete and working.

    Just my $0.02

    ------------
    2025: 48 years on the Net.


  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by Thomas2006

    Sounds like it's going to be another fail game because testers think they are "playing" a game and not testing a game. It's sad when the developers have to ask the testers to login and test the game. Regardless if theres anything to do in the game other then stand around and chat.  You signup up to "test" the game regardless the form the game currently is in. If you do not wish to test the game then you should turn in your testing spot so they can find more people that wish to actually help test the game and get these issues fixed.

     

    Sadly things like this are the exact reasion why a good portion of companies are doing away with testing done by the general public and instead putting more effort into internal testing and local testing group sessions.

    It's just a matter of time until Beta Testing is all but done away with.

    Agreed 100%. The OP is complaining because they won't turn more features on... Well, could that possibly be because they want you to test the features they do have turned on? Like in some sort of beta testing situation?

    This game is doomed to fail if the OP and others like him go around saying "this game is fail!" while not even pulling their weight in the beta testing department.

    Pull their weight? Only a moronic developer would put the success or failure of their product in the hands of UNPAID non proffesionell testers.

    You fans need to get something, you cant expect people that are not paid to do anything. You die-hard fans might but not the regular Joe. If he is not enjoying beta testing he will spend his free-time doing something else.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Xondar123


    Originally posted by Thomas2006

    Sounds like it's going to be another fail game because testers think they are "playing" a game and not testing a game. It's sad when the developers have to ask the testers to login and test the game. Regardless if theres anything to do in the game other then stand around and chat.  You signup up to "test" the game regardless the form the game currently is in. If you do not wish to test the game then you should turn in your testing spot so they can find more people that wish to actually help test the game and get these issues fixed.

     

    Sadly things like this are the exact reasion why a good portion of companies are doing away with testing done by the general public and instead putting more effort into internal testing and local testing group sessions.

    It's just a matter of time until Beta Testing is all but done away with.

    Agreed 100%. The OP is complaining because they won't turn more features on... Well, could that possibly be because they want you to test the features they do have turned on? Like in some sort of beta testing situation?

    This game is doomed to fail if the OP and others like him go around saying "this game is fail!" while not even pulling their weight in the beta testing department.

    Pull their weight? Only a moronic developer would put the success or failure of their product in the hands of UNPAID non proffesionell testers.

    You fans need to get something, you cant expect people that are not paid to do anything. You die-hard fans might but not the regular Joe. If he is not enjoying beta testing he will spend his free-time doing something else.

    Exactly. Add to this, the pre-orders were not sold as beta entry - they were sold for the Prelude early access release.  The devs have said all along that closed beta ended April 15th and that thisis the Prelude release. It's in their posts, in their FAQ and was originally on their preorder page.  So either the devs are correct that this is the Prelude release or the majority of posters here are correct that the pre-order people were duped into being beta testers.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    Aren't people used to games by small groups being delayed constantly?  I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying that these things happen since they don't have a lot of people, time, or money.

     

    So of course they say the game will be out on X date, so preorder now to join X - 2 weeks AND get into the beta.  They get free testers, and they get money.  Instead of an internal one that might require money.

  • lagerchobglagerchobg Member UncommonPosts: 203

    Was expecting that game...but now when i hear that even the beta tester got nothing to do and start to complain...hell they will not have my 40 bucks for nothing.

  • siredmondsiredmond Member Posts: 122

    Prelude is the first chapter of this game.

    Year Zero is the final wipe, will happen two weeks before the release date, this is the gaming portion of Early access.

    Year Zero will not happen until the developer is satisfied with the stability of the game, and the other features being dropped in, meanwhile everyone gets to enjoy some testing with the early access.

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by siredmond

    Prelude is the first chapter of this game.

    Year Zero is the final wipe, will happen two weeks before the release date, this is the gaming portion of Early access.

    Year Zero will not happen until the developer is satisfied with the stability of the game, and the other features being dropped in, meanwhile everyone gets to enjoy some testing with the early access.

    Telling preorder customers they have the privilege of "testing" a purchased product for months after it was supposed to have launched is some of the most egregious spin I've ever read. It's not "early access".  Early access is typically granted to preorder customers immediately prior to launch and those customers normally get to keep their characters.  Not so with Xsyon - the characters will be wiped.  Xyson's current state is basically closed, paid beta with no NDA.  The game was never properly beta tested before allowing preorder customers into the game. Instead, Notorious is using their preorder customers to test the game and forced them to pay for the right to do so.


    Players purchased a product that was supposed to have launched in mid-April. Unfortunately, that product was in no way ready for launch, which has now been pushed back to at least mid-August.  Preorder customers who expected  to be playing the live game by now have a right to be disappointed.   They bought something that has yet to be delivered.

    ~Ripper

  • DawngreeterDawngreeter Member CommonPosts: 60

    Early preorders in exchange for beta access is an often used approach for small indie developers. Developers usually make it very clear that what they are asking from you is to help development. Both Xsyon and MO made this very clear in huge letters which you could not miss during the process of preordering. In this way loyal, enthusiastic community is engaged and allowed to have a certain modicum of impact on the finer points of game balancing. Some people like this. Other people are assholes who revel in the toxic atmosphere they create because the didn't get their cake RIGHT THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW I WANT IT WAAAAAAAH. Or possibly even regardless of their cake, a portion of the mmorpg.com community seems to derive a lot more amusement from belitteling games and other people's preference for said games than actually playing anything.

    You people seriously make me sick.

  • vladakovvladakov Member Posts: 710

    TESTING, not playing

    image

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by Dawngreeter

    Early preorders in exchange for beta access is an often used approach for small indie developers. Developers usually make it very clear that what they are asking from you is to help development. Both Xsyon and MO made this very clear in huge letters which you could not miss during the process of preordering. In this way loyal, enthusiastic community is engaged and allowed to have a certain modicum of impact on the finer points of game balancing. Some people like this. Other people are assholes who revel in the toxic atmosphere they create because the didn't get their cake RIGHT THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW I WANT IT WAAAAAAAH. Or possibly even regardless of their cake, a portion of the mmorpg.com community seems to derive a lot more amusement from belitteling games and other people's preference for said games than actually playing anything.

    You people seriously make me sick.

    Prior to preorders being offered, it was never made clear that they were asking players to help test and fund development!  Preorder customers were told they would be granted early access to the game immediately prior to it launching as a thank you for having done so.

    Per Virtus, the Xsyon Community Manager:

     

    What is Prelude? 2 Months, 3 Weeks ago

     


    Seems that everyone is confused about this so I will clear everything up.



    Prelude is the first chapter of Xsyon and will start at release of game, April 15th, when you will build and discover (for the most part). Your village will be locked from any attacks and everyone can live in relative safety. Prelude will end sometime around mid-end summer.



    Before April 15th is the early entry for pre-orders (THIS IS NOT PRELUDE) as a special thanks. on April 15 or slightly before the servers will come down and be wiped. 



    (possible that only the characters will be wiped so that the towns etc stay in place but It's only a guess)



    Hope that clears things up 

     

     

     

    and

    Re:What is Prelude? 2 Months, 3 Weeks ago

     



    shadowlz wrote:


    Yes, Prelude is the RELEASE, the game is released on April 15th. Prelude wont have the whole world, just some that will grow. People who preorder can get early access before the 15th.



    At least I think I got it, correct me if I'm wrong.






    correct.



    /me doesn't get why this is so confusing 

     

    It's only after the game was already supposed to have originally launched that players were informed they were testing the game:

    Welcome To Xsyon! 3 Months ago

     



    Welcome to the Xsyon site!



    Xsyon Prelude is planned for June 15th 2010. This is a tentative date and we will makes sure the game is solid and stable with the planned features before we call the game official.



    We are currently running the game for early access and testing. Our main goals during this phase are to stablize the client and server, fix bugs (we're tearing through these) and improve game systems based on player feedback.



    We have been letting pre-order players into the game on a first come first serve basis over the past month and will continue to do so until all pre-order players are in the game.



    Feel free to ask questions here in the forums or using our Support and FAQ forms.



    Enjoy!

    Please note the post date in the quote above - it's prior to the quotes from Virtus, but has been edited to reflect more current information.

     


    Originally posted by vladakov

    TESTING, not playing

    Yes, except that the pre-order customers aren't supposed to be beta testers.  They're supposed to be playing the live game now, but the game isn't ready for launch.

    ~Ripper

  • vladakovvladakov Member Posts: 710

    Nice explanation there, and i agree with you.

     

    But still, better release a full game then an incompleted game.

    image

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by vladakov

    Nice explanation there, and i agree with you.

     

    But still, better release a full game then an incompleted game.

    and I agree with you on that point. Honestly, my only issues with Xsyon and Notorious are with the way they've managed preorders.  Irrespective of that, it looks like they have an interesting game in the works.

    ~Ripper

  • XianthosXianthos Member Posts: 723

    Originally posted by rhinok

    Originally posted by vladakov

    Nice explanation there, and i agree with you.

     

    But still, better release a full game then an incompleted game.

    and I agree with you on that point. Honestly, my only issues with Xsyon and Notorious are with the way they've managed preorders.  Irrespective of that, it looks like they have an interesting game in the works.

    ~Ripper

    That was main reason why i didnt pre-ordered it. Im going just to keep eye on the game and watch the development. And decide to jump in at release.

    EvE doors

    See the best doors on EvE-on!

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Originally posted by Dawngreeter

    Early preorders in exchange for beta access is an often used approach for small indie developers.

    And because they're an "indy" developer, that makes it right?

    Wanna know what makes ME sick? That there are gullible ( among other things, I'm just putting it politely ) people out there that actually support this kind of crap. They are the reason developers, "indy" and "professional", get away with releasing crap on the mmo scene while pulling in money for NOTHING.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • XianthosXianthos Member Posts: 723

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Originally posted by Dawngreeter

    Early preorders in exchange for beta access is an often used approach for small indie developers.

    And because they're an "indy" developer, that makes it right?

    Wanna know what makes ME sick? That there are gullible ( among other things, I'm just putting it politely ) people out there that actually support this kind of crap. They are the reason developers, "indy" and "professional", get away with releasing crap on the mmo scene while pulling in money for NOTHING.

    If i were you, i wouldnt bother about it. Everyone will learn his lesson sooner or later. And at some point there wont be anyone around who didnt learn this lesson. I have learned my lesson with the release of Age of Conan when i was a die hard fanboy of the game till i found out how incomplete it was back at release. Since then i never pre-order anything or buy game without reading the reviews of players (haters / fanboys).

    EvE doors

    See the best doors on EvE-on!

  • DawngreeterDawngreeter Member CommonPosts: 60

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Originally posted by Dawngreeter

    Early preorders in exchange for beta access is an often used approach for small indie developers.

    And because they're an "indy" developer, that makes it right?

    Wanna know what makes ME sick? That there are gullible ( among other things, I'm just putting it politely ) people out there that actually support this kind of crap. They are the reason developers, "indy" and "professional", get away with releasing crap on the mmo scene while pulling in money for NOTHING.

    You are not hearing what I am saying. It is a model where fans are asked to help the development. When I gave money almost a year ago for MO I fully understood what that meant. I know what it will mean when I pre-order Frozen Synapse in a couple of days. And I know what it would have meant to pre-order Xsyon (which I didn't do, because I wasn't all that interested). If you are not interested in supporting indie projects, that's perfectly fine. A lot of people aren't. Go buy something that floats your boat. Or don't buy anything. I honestly don't care. You don't even have to stop being an obnoxious consumerist asshole, it's a free Internet. I'm just saying people like you give me indigestion.

     

    I will add, though, that previously quoted announcements could have been better phrased.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Dawngreeter

    You are not hearing what I am saying. It is a model where fans are asked to help the development.

    Can you link to where the pre-order was pitched that way?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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