Why worry about setting classes in stone when you could simply make it skill based, and allow players to pick and choose to create their own "classes"?
Not all classes have access to the same areas of expertise, knowledge or whatever. A dog boy for example needs certain skills to perform their job, but at the same time shouldn't have access to other things like magic.
As much as I love free form character building, I don't think it would work in Rifts. Perhaps a hybrid of the two or something like that.
Having played Rifts for a number of years I can attest to two things. Balance would have to be built into the game for both the newbie and the elite players. In that respect this game would need a LOT of freakin' work because as others have stated this game HAS NO FREAKING BALANCE! Second is the idea of character killers and/or freaking gods walking around with powers gathered in such a way as they can't be killed. I remember a character walking around with phase equipment from Phase World snubbing the superpowered characters in the audience because of his P-Fields and O-P Fields which he claimed he could use in tandem. Insulating him from all harm! ANY HARM! You wanna bet that there would be those out there who would buy accounts and then bitch and moan to all hell that they had been snubbed because they couldn't pull off their favorite impossible character. And believe me, they're out there. I *know* they're out there!
It would mean a dust up of epic proportions.
"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." Neitzsche
I would love to see a Rifts MMO. I think it could work if they limited it to the 'Domain of Man' around 100 PA and kept the players to mortal non-MDC clases it could work. That would eliminate a lot of the power creep.
We can sit here and talk our brains out about how we would make a perfect MMO out of this franchise and how perfect it would be for this franchise to go as a MMO. It's been said and done and no matter how passionate you are and how much you believe that the devs could never screw up on it.
THEY WILL
It's happend with tons of other MMOs and it will continue to happen. If I were you guys I would just keep any nostalgiac stuff away from the mmo market even considering it because it's just gonna be processed and abused as a quick money making scheme.
I hate to be the debbie downer but come on, have we not learned any thing at all so far?
2nd few bits of advice is have the devs come up with something new. A brand new franchise not something that already exists and has restrictions because if they don't deliver to the point you will be disappointed and then on top of that you will get upset about the bugs/balance/lack of x.
People should just stop looking at the past for answers to their next MMO messiah and come up with something original, fresh and can be molded when ever.
Throw my name in under the "Awesome" section. Rifts could be a MMO like no other. Limitless possiblities. The biggest question would be How/If it could be done right.
Thanks for taking the time to bring Rifts to light. I was a GM for Rifts for almost a decade and during this time I couldn't find ANY PnPRPG that had such a unique yet familiar setting. I can still remember my players crawling through the flooded rubble of St. Louis looking for "artifacts", what a great time! . Currently there are over 30 different world books, with each book having its own classes, magic, and technology indigenous to that book's region. The best way to handle the sheer size of Rifts Earth is to start out in the Americas. Then as exspanions are produced, the developers could pull from other regions of the world like Africa, Asia, Europe, and even Atlantis (one of my favorite series of world books).
Honestly we will NEVER see a Rifts MMO. The owner is too tight-fisted with his creation, which is why most people have never even heard of the game. Regardless I'm a fan (I have about 60 books for Rifts) and still look forward to new material, even if it does come months if not years off schedule.
Actually, Kevin himself talked about a possible movie and a MMO on Palladiums homepage last year, so it seems like he is at latest considering it.
I would love it if it was true to the original IP. If it would be just another EQ clone I rather not have it at all.
And I was myself think someone should sue Rift:heroes... for the use of name. Maybe Kevin actually have something up his sleeve and that is the reason he sues them, maybe it just upsets him when someone mooch of his game.
Would like to see a Rifts MMO. Hell, give me a Shadowrun, Cyberpunk 2020, Robotech, and even a teenagers from outerspace MMO while your at it! And yes Rifts was deffinatly one of those games that forced you to KNOW YOUR ROLE if you want to survive. Out of all the characters I had my operator was the most fun to play. Sure combat is great but the ability to fix and drive things always made me the guy that had to stay alive or everyone was walking home. Glitter Boys were nice and all right up until something broke and they get stuck because one of their anchors won't retract.
And what drugs is the rogue scholar taking to make him think he can take on a phaeton juicer in a stand up fight? The rogue scholar should use that big brain he's suppose to have to lure the drugged up juicer into a trap. Juicers aren't rocket scientists.
Too bad it hasn't been done before. Tons of material to draw from. They had a phone rpg, I wonder if they could just expand on that? Never played it but I really liked the idea.
What would be the best player direction for a Rifts MMO?
I fully support Sandbox with an skill system but have locked in classes. To limit the game on classes you only release the MMO in a limited area with the intention of expanding much like the World Books a zone at a time. For instance, you only concentrate on the New England area of the US with the Coaliition and Magic Federation as your beginning factions. Then fill in North America and Europe as you go. Balance? Achievement! Have characters start humble(Squishy) and build to Godhood (like Jedi in Pre-NGE SWG). Imagine different classes of Jedi like characters fighting it out. Dragons, Splegorth, Demi-gods, actual Gods, Superscience Warriors, Glitterboys etc. etc... Making characters could be a total game in of its self. If there is a setting where the journey is more fun than the end game, it should be Rifts. Just keep in mind the different realms of power and it can work. By power, I mean the different levels of damage or strength, complexity and such.
Palladium Games has always wanted a MMO based on its franchise but Kev is very protective and controling of it. Earning his trust and cooperation is pretty paramount and is the greatest hurdle. He doesn't like folks mucking up his baby.
Rifts is an incredibly expansive game spanning over 23 world books, 4 source books, 4 dimension books and all of the Coalition War. The game would have to be so cut down and chopped up just to fit a reasonable amount content into it. Then there is all of the balancing issues and factions. I LOVE this game and I've played for years but I'd be the first to admit in an MMO setting where lets be honest classes like the Operator or Rogue Scholar would just be next to useless in comparison to say a Dragon Juicer or Atlantian Tattoo warrior. Pretty much every MMO to date has some form of combat at its heart and until make some way to make a non-combative class be as useful as a Cyborg spewing plasma bolts from its every orifice they wont make the cut. It would take years just to whittle down classes and races then to have to turn around and create the world and stories, NPC's, Weapons, Vehicles and do they actually include the ability to Rift to lets say Wormwood? I say it works for table top PnP but not as an MMO as much as I'd like it too.
I've been saying this for years. A magic/tech mmo along the IP of Palladium's Rifts or Shadowrun, carefully balanced with class "flavor", lore, and checks and balances, like a rock-paper-scissors of psionics vs mysticism vs uber technology, is exactly what the 3rd gen mmo development needs.
Also, as I've been saying for some time, my money's banked this is the IP for Blizzard's now 2-year-old "secret project". The writing's on the wall. Everyone wants it. Please, oh please, let a decent developer like Blizzard release it. I'm talking to you, Cryptic, back off.
And don't get me started on balance issues. If you want balance, play checkers. The world all around us is full of imbalance, which is one of the things that makes it interesting. There's no reason this needn't hold true for an online world as well.
Incredibly well said, Unlight. I don't think you could have put it any better than that.
So true. i try to explain to people...in AD&D..if a first level thief fought a first level fighter...even apart from a surprise attack. The fighter would likely tear the thief to bits. And first level Mage or Cleric was mostly useless. At some point..it seemed..they were balanced despite being different levels..sometimes varying by several levels depending on what class you played. One on one victories were very dependent on playing your characters strengths and understanding your own weaknesses and those of your opponents . You had to know terrain and when to run. main engagements were usually well planned out...and even the surprises involved precise thought.Fights...even small ones could last hours and each second/turn could be plotted out. (something that really can't work in most mmos) At higher levels..Mages..(clerics to some degree but mainly mages) were god-like. You wanted a team to take a really powerful one down. Balance wasn't really an issue. then again..we rarely made characters and fought eachother..so PvP was not the main playstyle for our group or most I knew. It was the quest.
Balance isn't about which class could kill the other in a straight up fight. Balance is about each character class being able to contribute to the group/guild/community. No one wants to get stuck playing a class that has no role or function and be forced to rely on charity from friends to interact with other players.
I dream of a Rifts MMO. This thread really makes me happy.
I think the MMO should focus on the best parts of the setting and characters. As for the rules, well, IMO they need to be totally revamped to work in a MMO game. In fact I think how character classes progress would need to be addressed as well. For example, If you wanted to be a glitterboy, mabey you don't learn how to operate that armor tell later in your career. Whats important is that the MMO captures the feel of the setting --- infinate possibilities.
As for balance, this is really only an issue if PVP is involved. I think it would be cool if the game didn't try to balance everything perfectly. Instead just let some character classes be best at combat, others best for utility. Let the Juicers, Borgs, Glitter boys, and Line Walkers duke it out while the Cyber-doc crafts implants, the city-rat spys, and the rogue scientist figures out how to opperate taht strange artifact that fell out of a rift.
Comments
Not all classes have access to the same areas of expertise, knowledge or whatever. A dog boy for example needs certain skills to perform their job, but at the same time shouldn't have access to other things like magic.
As much as I love free form character building, I don't think it would work in Rifts. Perhaps a hybrid of the two or something like that.
Having played Rifts for a number of years I can attest to two things. Balance would have to be built into the game for both the newbie and the elite players. In that respect this game would need a LOT of freakin' work because as others have stated this game HAS NO FREAKING BALANCE! Second is the idea of character killers and/or freaking gods walking around with powers gathered in such a way as they can't be killed. I remember a character walking around with phase equipment from Phase World snubbing the superpowered characters in the audience because of his P-Fields and O-P Fields which he claimed he could use in tandem. Insulating him from all harm! ANY HARM! You wanna bet that there would be those out there who would buy accounts and then bitch and moan to all hell that they had been snubbed because they couldn't pull off their favorite impossible character. And believe me, they're out there. I *know* they're out there!
It would mean a dust up of epic proportions.
"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." Neitzsche
I would love to see a Rifts MMO. I think it could work if they limited it to the 'Domain of Man' around 100 PA and kept the players to mortal non-MDC clases it could work. That would eliminate a lot of the power creep.
We can sit here and talk our brains out about how we would make a perfect MMO out of this franchise and how perfect it would be for this franchise to go as a MMO. It's been said and done and no matter how passionate you are and how much you believe that the devs could never screw up on it.
THEY WILL
It's happend with tons of other MMOs and it will continue to happen. If I were you guys I would just keep any nostalgiac stuff away from the mmo market even considering it because it's just gonna be processed and abused as a quick money making scheme.
I hate to be the debbie downer but come on, have we not learned any thing at all so far?
2nd few bits of advice is have the devs come up with something new. A brand new franchise not something that already exists and has restrictions because if they don't deliver to the point you will be disappointed and then on top of that you will get upset about the bugs/balance/lack of x.
People should just stop looking at the past for answers to their next MMO messiah and come up with something original, fresh and can be molded when ever.
Throw my name in under the "Awesome" section. Rifts could be a MMO like no other. Limitless possiblities. The biggest question would be How/If it could be done right.
Thanks for taking the time to bring Rifts to light. I was a GM for Rifts for almost a decade and during this time I couldn't find ANY PnPRPG that had such a unique yet familiar setting. I can still remember my players crawling through the flooded rubble of St. Louis looking for "artifacts", what a great time! . Currently there are over 30 different world books, with each book having its own classes, magic, and technology indigenous to that book's region. The best way to handle the sheer size of Rifts Earth is to start out in the Americas. Then as exspanions are produced, the developers could pull from other regions of the world like Africa, Asia, Europe, and even Atlantis (one of my favorite series of world books).
Honestly we will NEVER see a Rifts MMO. The owner is too tight-fisted with his creation, which is why most people have never even heard of the game. Regardless I'm a fan (I have about 60 books for Rifts) and still look forward to new material, even if it does come months if not years off schedule.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Kevin is the only stumbling block to Rifts being truly sucessful.
Actually, Kevin himself talked about a possible movie and a MMO on Palladiums homepage last year, so it seems like he is at latest considering it.
I would love it if it was true to the original IP. If it would be just another EQ clone I rather not have it at all.
And I was myself think someone should sue Rift:heroes... for the use of name. Maybe Kevin actually have something up his sleeve and that is the reason he sues them, maybe it just upsets him when someone mooch of his game.
Would like to see a Rifts MMO. Hell, give me a Shadowrun, Cyberpunk 2020, Robotech, and even a teenagers from outerspace MMO while your at it! And yes Rifts was deffinatly one of those games that forced you to KNOW YOUR ROLE if you want to survive. Out of all the characters I had my operator was the most fun to play. Sure combat is great but the ability to fix and drive things always made me the guy that had to stay alive or everyone was walking home. Glitter Boys were nice and all right up until something broke and they get stuck because one of their anchors won't retract.
And what drugs is the rogue scholar taking to make him think he can take on a phaeton juicer in a stand up fight? The rogue scholar should use that big brain he's suppose to have to lure the drugged up juicer into a trap. Juicers aren't rocket scientists.
What would be the best player direction for a Rifts MMO?
I fully support Sandbox with an skill system but have locked in classes. To limit the game on classes you only release the MMO in a limited area with the intention of expanding much like the World Books a zone at a time. For instance, you only concentrate on the New England area of the US with the Coaliition and Magic Federation as your beginning factions. Then fill in North America and Europe as you go. Balance? Achievement! Have characters start humble(Squishy) and build to Godhood (like Jedi in Pre-NGE SWG). Imagine different classes of Jedi like characters fighting it out. Dragons, Splegorth, Demi-gods, actual Gods, Superscience Warriors, Glitterboys etc. etc... Making characters could be a total game in of its self. If there is a setting where the journey is more fun than the end game, it should be Rifts. Just keep in mind the different realms of power and it can work. By power, I mean the different levels of damage or strength, complexity and such.
Palladium Games has always wanted a MMO based on its franchise but Kev is very protective and controling of it. Earning his trust and cooperation is pretty paramount and is the greatest hurdle. He doesn't like folks mucking up his baby.
Rifts is an incredibly expansive game spanning over 23 world books, 4 source books, 4 dimension books and all of the Coalition War. The game would have to be so cut down and chopped up just to fit a reasonable amount content into it. Then there is all of the balancing issues and factions. I LOVE this game and I've played for years but I'd be the first to admit in an MMO setting where lets be honest classes like the Operator or Rogue Scholar would just be next to useless in comparison to say a Dragon Juicer or Atlantian Tattoo warrior. Pretty much every MMO to date has some form of combat at its heart and until make some way to make a non-combative class be as useful as a Cyborg spewing plasma bolts from its every orifice they wont make the cut. It would take years just to whittle down classes and races then to have to turn around and create the world and stories, NPC's, Weapons, Vehicles and do they actually include the ability to Rift to lets say Wormwood? I say it works for table top PnP but not as an MMO as much as I'd like it too.
I always loved the art in Rifts. The scenery gave me that funny feeling in my gut..
I've been saying this for years. A magic/tech mmo along the IP of Palladium's Rifts or Shadowrun, carefully balanced with class "flavor", lore, and checks and balances, like a rock-paper-scissors of psionics vs mysticism vs uber technology, is exactly what the 3rd gen mmo development needs.
Also, as I've been saying for some time, my money's banked this is the IP for Blizzard's now 2-year-old "secret project". The writing's on the wall. Everyone wants it. Please, oh please, let a decent developer like Blizzard release it. I'm talking to you, Cryptic, back off.
So true. i try to explain to people...in AD&D..if a first level thief fought a first level fighter...even apart from a surprise attack. The fighter would likely tear the thief to bits. And first level Mage or Cleric was mostly useless. At some point..it seemed..they were balanced despite being different levels..sometimes varying by several levels depending on what class you played. One on one victories were very dependent on playing your characters strengths and understanding your own weaknesses and those of your opponents . You had to know terrain and when to run. main engagements were usually well planned out...and even the surprises involved precise thought.Fights...even small ones could last hours and each second/turn could be plotted out. (something that really can't work in most mmos) At higher levels..Mages..(clerics to some degree but mainly mages) were god-like. You wanted a team to take a really powerful one down. Balance wasn't really an issue. then again..we rarely made characters and fought eachother..so PvP was not the main playstyle for our group or most I knew. It was the quest.
Balance isn't about which class could kill the other in a straight up fight. Balance is about each character class being able to contribute to the group/guild/community. No one wants to get stuck playing a class that has no role or function and be forced to rely on charity from friends to interact with other players.
I dream of a Rifts MMO. This thread really makes me happy.
I think the MMO should focus on the best parts of the setting and characters. As for the rules, well, IMO they need to be totally revamped to work in a MMO game. In fact I think how character classes progress would need to be addressed as well. For example, If you wanted to be a glitterboy, mabey you don't learn how to operate that armor tell later in your career. Whats important is that the MMO captures the feel of the setting --- infinate possibilities.
As for balance, this is really only an issue if PVP is involved. I think it would be cool if the game didn't try to balance everything perfectly. Instead just let some character classes be best at combat, others best for utility. Let the Juicers, Borgs, Glitter boys, and Line Walkers duke it out while the Cyber-doc crafts implants, the city-rat spys, and the rogue scientist figures out how to opperate taht strange artifact that fell out of a rift.