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Many Returning Players: SOE&DEVs dont care about them or Vanguard
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This I just had to laugh at. I've been in epic gear since about level 14 and I got it solo. How much more instant could the gratification be?
You are just now figuring this out. Silius has ruined this game from the moment he took charge. Ignoring content for everyone below level 50. Adding raid content and not any worthwhile fixes, and I suppose the bug list still continues to grow. While the raid content gets shoved down your throats.
Well of course SOE is going to let it die because its far superior to their Everquest franchise, but in worse shape currently. They bought it so that someone else couldn't have it and have something to rival them with once fixed up, and we all know that EQIII is being developed atm anyway, so why bother devoting time and money on Vanguard when you have something they hope will be even more superior....heh
STAY AWAY FROM VANGUARD
You wont get support
You wont ever see bug fixes
You wont see any GMs ever
You wont see any Expansion ever
WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET not more not less....
1) I've gotten support for problems I've had and usually in a rather timely manner. At that, in my guild we have had a ton of people who have asked for character transfers, and SOE has done it, and charged nothing for it. Hmm...
2) They do bug fixes pretty consistantly.
3) I don't want to see them, I just want to acknowledge that they exist.
4) Thats fine, I can't stand EQ2 because they come out with a new expac too often and it usually makes other parts of the game die. The same goes for WoW.
IGNORE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT
1. You get support in an extremely efficient manner. I called a GM and got a response in 7 minutes, and it was past 2:00AM CST.
2. Actually the entire month of May was setup for bug fixes, and nearly a hundred have been squashed in that time. Player requests were also implemented and adjusted, your post is obviously made purely on assumptions.
3. GMs do not need to show up. Either they A) Log into your character and fix the issue or
They credit whatever it is that needs credited or C) They respond via e-mail that it's a known issue and how you can easily solve it yourself.
4. Vanguard was never made to have on the shelf expansion packs, content additions were always made to be free downloaded patches. EverQuest Live currently has 16 expansion packs, EverQuest 2 has six expansion packs (9 if you feel the need to include adventure packs), Dark Age of Camelot has 7 expansion packs, and World of Warcraft is going on 3. The only reason to have an expansion pack is to have marketing on the shelf, other than that it's mainly an over-priced content addition. I'll take the free updates, thanks.
Why would anyone below 50 need content? There is too much content as is, you can't do it all even once before out leveling it and you want more? End game is where the filling out is needed because where WoW or EQ2 have a laundry list of capped instances, VG does not. What it does have is massive, but on paper 1 is 1. Doesn't matter that that one is the size of 4-5 normal insances, on paper its 1. Obviously more than 1 instance but still VG ones are huge but when comparing different things to do at cap... 1 is 1.
Point 2: It isn't something to brag about that over 100 bugs were fixed. Considering that the dev team scheduled to fix these bugs over six months ago, that means they were left live for a long time. The fact that the dev team actually has to schedule so much time dedicated to nothing but fixing bugs, that means there are a lot of bugs in the game.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who either don't mind or the game runs fine enough for them, but developers do things like this for a reason. I'm sure there are some bugs that have existed since release, but many have been fixed. Still planning 6 months ago to fix bugs that were already in the game for who knows how long is a long time to let things linger. Portland makes a good point, even if somewhat over exaggerated.
Point 4: Vanguard has always been designed for expansions. That was one of the first promised that SOE made when they bought the game. [Link] Even Brad talked frequently about relaunching the game with an expansion pack [Link] There is no reason to believe that Vanguard was going to differ from the other games you listed considering it comes from the same design mold as those games. Expansion packs make money and revitalize games when they are on store shelves.
I'd be more careful about calling other people out for not knowing what they are talking about.
i have a hard skin after getting bashed by Fanbois since 2000
They cant impress me anymore, i am speaking out pure Facts that these people dont seem to like.If a game has almost no more support, updates, bugfixes for certein level areas like Vanguard is lacking from 1 to 50 then its time to call it by name. Vanguard has Content support for Level 50+ players and thats it since month.
I want to send a shoot to the Devs and Managers by warning possible new customers about their games and their often very bad Customer support until these Officials either do something or darnit close the servers and hopefully never start a mmorpg project again in their lifes.
If some Fanbois deny 100% facts or not, doesnt bother me anymore since a long long time.............
I use to play VG and loved the game even with the bugs and issues. Then I ended up in a high end raiding guild and tested raid encounters, first and only time I have done that, and to see them push broken content after broken content with very little support just gave me a look into were VG was going. I left the game and wont return do to the lack of support or care from SOE about the game.
Every game has bugs, be it an MMO or a console shooter. To suggest otherwise would be disingenuous to who ever is reading this. I'm not denying the development team is small, I'm saying they are working on the game and they are continuing development. You might see it in a different light than I or other Vanguard fans do. Dedicated bug fixing doesn't instantly mean there's a ton of huge bugs needing squashed, but it covers everything from little annoying bugs, to broken quests, to player requests. All are being worked on and all are receiving direct developer responses. You can't deny there's a stigma around Vanguard being littered with bugs, but from my perspective setting up hardcore bug fixing sessions aims to put those concerns out of mind.
As for Vanguard and expansion packs, you're linking to discussions after the fact that Vanguard was released bug littered and broken. The original design of Vanguard was not to have expansion packs in the trend you see today. After release the idea of a box expansion was thrown around to show continued development and market the game, which certainly makes sense given the launch. I've been with Vanguard since mid-2004, seen it change hands from Microsoft to SOE, and watched it progress into the amazing game it is today.
Really? Are you serious? This statement is completely backwards. You realize there are over 30 dungeons just in the level 1 to 10 range? At level 10 the number of dungeon options doubles to nearly 60. You realize at level 30 there are 12 dungeons, yet the only two anyone seems to know about is the Coterie Infineum Sanctuary and Trengal Keep? CIS can start at 25, and to complete it will take you to 30. TK is enormous and is a great dungeon, but there are other options out there. As you can see, your options get smaller and smaller the higher you get, not the other way around as your describe.
Anyone who is currently playing Vanguard, hit O and click Preferred Dungeons. it's all content you're missing out on.
If you're returning to Vanguard with a level 50-55, I would make a new character. The population surge is majority low level players, and you'll have a much better time enjoying the game with people rather than jumping into the end-game grind. They are revamping classes, adding more content, and fixing bugs. Give it a shot, you'll enjoy it much more if you take your time and see what Vanguard has to offer.
Ya forget about expansion packs just keep working on performance issues , like keeping lag in check while grouping and perhaps doing something so our Hard drive does not have to work so hard , I really dont want to get a solid state
1 - For GM responses, I guess this is more of a player by player, case by case experience. There were times where it took days before I got a response on a petition and then others I got them with in minutes. If I had to grade the GM response efficiency, I'd give it a 7 out of 10 give or take. I have seen players go answerless in the past so it will happen...rarely but wouldn't throw it past anyone. As for support like technical in general. I can't say as I do the handyman thing and try to fix things myself.
2. Now comparing the entire time of VG has been live, of course there are bugs still there. I'm pretty sure everyone who has touched a PC game knows it won't be bug-free. I think with some may be getting at is that with VG (and may be true for other games but not to the same scale) is that with every content release that VG has seen (up to Pota for my time) is that it has introduced new and very potent bugs and that its been a continuous cycle (with a diminishing developer team) fixing bugs that were fixed prior. Saying there is no bug fixes, yes that's not true. I think what gets some folks is taking a month to stop content development (yes I know the scale of content in the game) for bug fixes and still missing some that have been in since launch can irk ya. Then again being a programmer myself and hearing the horror stories of their coding, keeps you up at night.
3. I will say this. Some of the GMs in VG can/will annoy you to all end. But refer to point 1.
4. No one will decline free content updates, in fact most would prefer that over paying 29.99. As for VG, we all know the story of the rise and fall of it. Well with the major content updates VG has gotten, the marketing aspect didn't quite make it along as well. I'm going down memory lane here APW, Griffon, SoD, 24 man raids, Trial Island, and PotA (just going up to my time) only twice did VG recieve marketting to match the major content update. APW (for obvious reason) and Trial Island (again obvious reasons). Now of course the game's population was diminishing throughout all those times but to the mmo community, when there isn't any surge of marketting (its SOE we talking about) people are going to look at these updates like "meh".
Its late so its rambling now...
I'm not saying other games don't have bugs, but there are not many games that have to halt the content production schedule to make large time commitments to bashing bugs. That pretty much validates the stigma that vanguard has. This isn't a case of a small dev team or whatever, it is the result of a poorly coded and optimized game with a long history of problems. While it isn't as game stopping as things were at release it still have more issues than would be found in other games.
Do you have something to validate your claims that vanguard was never designed for expansion packs? All the talk I have ever seen from the developers has been along the lines of typical mmos. Vangaurd is cut from the same cloth as EQ, WoW, EQ2, etc, so I don't know what is leading you to believe that it would somehow avoid the same model of gameplay when it came to expansion.
For example here is a snippet from Oct 2006 (BEFORE the release of Vanguard) where Brad is talking about expansion packs as well as monthly content updates. Even saying there would be 2 teams, just like every other mmo is currently doing
On the topic of expansions, McQuaid said, “We’re going to shoot for monthly content updates, and we’re planning on expansions about once a year.” He went on to explain that Vanguard will have two teams at launch, the live team (which will focus on maintaining and updating the live game) and the expansion team (whose focus is on producing the content for the next expansion pack). “Launch is almost an arbitrary date,” he said. “It’s a big day, because it’s the day we let the public in to play Vanguard, but development doesn’t stop there.” [source]
To be fair EQ2's GU 54? update was a bug stomp and its not known as a buggy MMO yet the update squashed 800+ bugs in a 6 year old MMO. The problem with VG bugs is that they are generally terrain related so lots of people run into them.
Personally I'm more than happy that they scrapped fluff additions to do another bug focus update. Like the gent said, I've got a laundry list of group content I haven't laid eyes on, why would I need more. Get the bugs squashed and then do it again.
And grr to the SH line for not letting me start the end quest before 29
Vanguard is the game everyone wants to love... it is really the best PvE MMO available. But it never reached the critical mass for significant development resources and even though the devs did a great job delivering Magi Hold and Hillsbury recently, it's really not enough.
Throughout my 3-years of playing Vanguard just about everyone that quit always came back hoping for new content, certain bug fixes or more population to play with. People just keep coming back over and over hoping for this game's success.
I'm playnig it to have fun. As long as I am having fun, I will stay. I plan to stay at least a year. Eventually, I will quit if there are no updates, but that time is a long-long ways away.
You can really enjoy this game if you take your time and enjoy the different aspects of it and not do a mad dash to end game (if there is such a thing in VG).
It will last long enough to keep my attention until KOTOR comes out. Then who knows. Until that time I enjoying it for what it is. A good game that is fun to play. Not much if anything for PvP but a good PvE game.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Actually EQ2 is a rather buggy game and often hastily implemented features that have issues linger for to long. Tthe devs have admitted the condition of the game isn't very good after the latest expansion which is why they have "bug bashes". Just having a commonly accepted term for such large periods of time spent doing little more than fixing bugs says something and seems rather unique to a few soe games.
Rothgar says server merges are something they are considering a little down the road. The EQ2 world isn’t exactly in the best shape it’s ever been in at the moment with zoning issues, instance lag, contested named fight lag, and broker lag so the dev team has a few issues to take care of before they can move forward with this idea. [LINK]