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Developer Speaks out against PvP Guild
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great that hurt it was meant to. When you have a option to turn it of and on you still get pains. These bullies just use that cheep option at thier convenience. With this option it seperates those who play games not only for thier pvp content. This what pisses me off is a game is more than pvp. Some play becuase they like the game itself or even the community. When pvp rules a game you have the old Chinese warlord clans some who are pains and everyone either leaves or dont play much. Ive seen this in every mmo. We buy items to reskill we can buy to pvp. Also this way is a tool for the Game itself and income is not lost. Most games have recognised some people dont play to pvp. Aika is a great example of this where thier are 2 servers. Having a item to change this is the cheaper and more practical solution. For this current problemn i would of simply done that to this guild. Having this part of the companies rules and part of the cost of being in a guild. Now guildwars has a different solution only the guilded can pvp that is another option to look at. This way keeps it to guilds and not single players. I never said my idea was the only solution.
You haven't been following the game, Shadze, because they DO have two different ways of doing things; guilds are PvP, clans are non-PvP. That is not the problem. The problem stems from the fact that every single time a non-PvP player posts something on the forums, the PvPJerks come forth in their "brotherhood" and immediately tell said player that they need to grow some bolts and Play Like A Real Man. Anything that isn't PvP is seen as a waste of time, and they tell you so. In short, if you're not doing things their way, you're doing it wrong. They've even now told the Devs that they're handling the beta testing completely incorrect and should be listening to them rather than making their own minds up - because they themselves would not and do not respect rules, and therefore they believe that no one else will, ergo the Devs don't know what they're doing. The concept that we MIGHT have had a community before all this mess which was mature and respectful of our role as beta testers is a foreign one, because they have already admitted they don't have a moral bone in their bodies.
Thing is, the KKK is a "brotherhood" too, but I certainly have no respect for them or their sense of comraderie. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter where it is. And steamrolling a whole community for not Being One Of Them is being a bigot - something which I imagine they're actually quite proud of.
The problem is that the community is very small, and therefore such a large group of bullies is going to have a very huge impact on said community. If it was a bigger game with numerous servers, it wouldn't be a problem - they just go onto one and disappear into the hundreds of thousands playing, and never the twain shall meet. But with a community so small, with what will probably be all of three servers, you're bound to run into them, and have to deal with them at some point. And I get tired of "just put them on ignore" when that means putting nearly the whole community on ignore and going solo. Ignore doesn't work when you have mobs being trained on top of you, when rp is being constantly disrupted, when guild forums have to be wiped due to flames, and when you cannot start a single thread about something other than PvP without having someone stomp all over it, saying "it's just a joke, lighten up" and other classic passive-aggressive internet behaviour.
So, no, simple mechanics won't solve it - these types of people specialise in ways of getting around the mechanics whenever possible, using the rather anti-social explanation of "well if it wasn't meant to be there, they would have taken it out". The development team of Aerrevan isn't large, and there's no change they're going to be able to stop every single exploit/griefing gap. With all this going on, chances are they'll find themselves having to become dedicated babysitters and anything other than stopping up exploits will be put to one side. It won't be fun for them, it won't be fun for us.
Therefore, I - and it seems, quite a few others - are going to be giving this a miss. Methinks the beta-test numbers may turn out to be considerably smaller than expected; and what a mess it's going to be.
Thanks, but no.
Well, I will be beta testing Aerrevan. I doubt if many of the Noxx crew are in the beta, they seem to have doscovered the game after the first phase of beta testers were full. If they have made it into beta, we'll just have to see how it goes. Maybe there will be ways for the Dev's to handle the disruptions. I agreed months ago to beta test and I shall. It will be quite interesting to see how beta plays out. There were probably going to be some rough spots with or without a griefer guild.
MacDeath
aaaa I get the whole picture. It is then my guess these groups originate from the same country and dominate others via these tactics. I hope one of you developers are reading this because this sort of economy is going to lose you a lot of dollars in whaat you cannot afford.mmmm the games who actually make money have a no nonsence aproach to this sort of behaviuor
And Im really sure these players have been kicked from those sort of games as they should be.What then needs to be discussed is organised pvp verses all out guild abuse. They re clever and are using the old time griefing favorite the enviroment to deal with enemies. Yet stupid in the fact is continue this behaviuor you lose the potential of income for all those deliciuos updates everyone moans about. A Game survives by its community and over all attractiveness for other to play it.
Most probably these also bot and spend no real money on the game itself. Mae it then a pay by month game. Those games have better policing as they depend on thier committed members.
Since you seem to be such a "hardcore" pvper why don't you join the Marines and see some real PvP?
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Developers don't have to do didly squad! At least they shouldn't.
It's their game, if they don't want to cater to every single player's needs that is their perogative.
It is expectations like these (and devs who try to conform to it) that have caused the downfall of mmo's today.
All mmo's are the same bland experience because they try to please everyone. (I know a serious generalization, there are exceptions).
I suggest you go play MO, full of pvp lovers there, and it is completely catered to your needs (if it will reach it's full potential that is). But ofcourse there won't be any "carebears" you can gank out of some idealistic reason, so it will probably be a boring world.
I.
This is nice and a breath of fresh air. And you also got me more interested in this game due to this willingness to show right and wrong.
(As for the OP your agenda was quite obvious from your post.)
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Its a simple concept really PVP in a roleplaying setting needs a purpose. If you want to avoid gankers and griefing then you need to incoporate reasons for PVPers to meet and have conflicts. Perhaps contestable areas which when held grant bonuses to an alliance. Capturable resources or fortifications. Maybe castles near certain towns which when captured means that members of the alliance holding the castle are granted discounts at the stores in town and bonuses to quest awards. Whilst those of the opposite alliance gan penalties. (neutrals get neither benefits or penalties).
Personally I have never seen the point of PVP for the sake of PVP. Its not hardcore to kill someone for the 10th time as he resses in his graveyard. It IS hardcore to hold the castle against overwheling odds. It is EPIC to have a pitched battle over a valuable resource each side trying to hold it long enough for their miners to mine the resource.
PVP with a purpose can be fun and rewarding for all, even those who normally would avoid it would be tempted to join in. PvP without purpose has no meaning and usually degenerates rapidly into a griefest.
just my observations
Gadareth
MacDeath
Exactly so there is really no point in graveyeard camping and other griefing activities. Keep the PvP to meaningful and concensial activities.
Gadareth
That's part of the problem though. The only incentive PvP griefers have ever needed, is the belief that their actions are causing distress to other players. Even if you have meaningful objectives in PvP, you will still get some players who think it's funny to abuse the PvP game mechanics to harass other players. This can even occur when there is 'consentual PvP', where some players go out of their way to try to trick players into fighting when they didn't mean to.
Unfortunately, no matter what game mechanics you set up, there will always be people who try to skirt around them to cause problems. This even applies in real life, with people acting with gross dishonesty or negligence that is technically within the law, but is knowingly morally abhorrent. That's why we rely on judicial systems to use their best judgement in dealing with people who cause problems. This is why the developer's attitude is good, because they've made a decision about what they want to allow in the game with regards to PvP, and are being proactive about it.
Thanks for clearing that up. You have just demonstrated why the Dev's had concerns about the impact your guild might have. Its quite refreshing to see Dev's take a public stance against that type of behavior. Before you bother with names, look at my avatar... Case closed.
That's the last thing the Marines need. This guy would probably shoot toddlers in hopes the parents would show up with uzis to start a real fight.
I feel sorry for game developers, I do. The community is it, when it goes bad, the game dies off, and how much control do the developers really have over what their community starts out as or turns into? Very little, and the less restrictive the game world, the less control they have.
This game does look interesting though, and I'm adding it to my 'to try' list. Let's hope the griefers are in a minority and stay that way.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I'm a former Marine and a beta tester. We won't have a griefer problem during beta.
MacDeath
Insofar as griefers go, I recommend a 'kill them all' policy. (Bonus points for screenshots.)
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Sorry, can't post screenshots here. Against the beta rules.
MacDeath
That approach has been tried...Over and over. It doesn't do all that well in the current western markets. Games that allow ganking or griefing automatically niche themselves in the western markets. Given the time, talent and money it takes to develop one of these games, why would Dev's not wish it to attract the widest possible audience? Like it or not, there are a lot more CareBears in the west, than there are PvP types.
There is HUGE difference in "pk" and "pvp"
Western games go around more of a "pvp" type game where it is mutual, or you are in a zone meant for pvp.
Pking is usually comprised of "ganking" Which involves ONE party who is only out to 1-get infamy 2-harass players 3-ruin another players quest
Ganking is the lowest form of pvp in ANY game, ganking requires no skill and if a whole guild is ganking people to STOP them from leveling up in a area, is complete crap.
player vs player is when 2 people are fighting each other, Ganking is when 1 person is attacking someone who is not ready to attack back.
And whats so wrong with an mmoRPG wanting the ROLEPLAYING to be above the pvp? Might as well call other mmorpgs that are soley pvp, mmopvp.
Ganking has no roleplay value in it, and if a game wants the game to be more roleplay then pvp, let them do their thing. I dont see what the OP was doing here other than trollin.
The dev is stupid. Some people call true role playing when you get into character. You immerse yourself in the world around you and pretend like you are there. If it is a game that has some kind of war or fighting in the story, than there is a reason to Role play that war out, and sometimes that involves pvp.
RP does not always mean that a person just likes to pve .
Trying to be all things to all people is almost always a guarenteed fail. Trying to appeal to more than one type of game, usually makes good sense, but that is far different for needing to appeal to ALL types.
As for everything else, you lost any credibility with me with your original post, where you complain/denounce the game without showing any type of context.
Actually "Ganking" refers to use overwhelming numbers...think "Gang." It has nothing to do with a victim who is "not ready to attack back." It always has meant that and always will mean that regardless of how hard people like you and newb Zymurgeist try to spread ignorance.
Don't worry though, tons of people use the term incorrectly with their own definition.
Killing someone in an MMO is called "Player Killing," often abbreviated as "PK."
PKing someone for no reason and who has no chance of defending themselves is generally considered one (of many) way to "grief" another player.
Using a large group to PK mercilessly against even a single person that would stand no chance is called "Ganking."
These definitions already exist. Stop trying to change them.
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