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Possible Soft, Semi-Permadeath (Permadeath yes, but more like stat-loss)
Angelof2070
Member Posts: 224
The core system is about having...
1) One "Master" or "Lord" who can gain PERMANENT skill points which all characters start with, collects and holds all items and gold except that which is equipped (bank), player housing (personal house), crafting/harvesting/trade skills (never lost)
2) Characters who advance quickly in skill level, but can suffer permadeath. Multiple character slots (3 to 5) per LORD.
3) Permadeath is not definite. Perhaps a % chance for permadeath, % chance "wounded", poisoned, imprisoned, etc. So the chance to permanently die is less than to lose access to that character for (x) hours, require (y) gold ransom, etc.
4) When a character permanently dies, you get a reward for "service" based on the heroism of said character. In other words, although you lose your character permanently, you may gain PERMANENT Lord skills, extra gold, items, quests, or many other things to soften the loss. Loss is not as big of a deal when you gain one thing by losing another.
5) Losing a character is NOT a big deal. It is built into the game design where it's not game-ending to lose a character, because CHARACTER progression is fast (LORD permanent skill progression is slow) and the entire game encourages Alt-itus (alt characters of different classes)
Perhaps think more along the lines of innovation like Granado Espada where you control 3 characters at the same time, but every now and then one might die being replaced by a new one.
6) The game is an MMORPG, but borrows many elements from RTS games (or RTS mods to make them more RPG-like, like Starcraft's Use Map Settings games) or FPS games (All characters are perma-death, but you unlock weapons, achievements, etc.)
7) Innovation. To break free of the same-old same-old of no-risk, high reward dull MMORPG's by having tons of races, classes, skills, abilities, dynamic adventure-type quests, and loads of items, quests, and rewards to soften the blow of high-risk permadeath while at the same time adding the fun and challenging rewards that go along with the idea of perma-death. More than enough classes, races, specializations, skills, and equipments to make re-rolling an alt a fun experience that every death means a better tweak towards your playstyle. Want to respec? Try a high-risk dungeon. If you succeed, you get a huge reward. If you die, you can remake that character-- but this time not make the mistake of specializing in two-handed axes. It will only take a few hours to a few days to get back to that skill level. Die again? There's so many specializations and character types to try out- it's almost exciting to try the new thing. Rebirth to compensate for Death. It's beautiful!
8) Rare (epic) quests (soloable) to revive past characters. If you really, really, really didn't want (x) character to die you can quest to bring him back. Lore, Story, and Events all are based on each race's, classes, or realm's storyline for reviving a character. (Perhaps you go on a quest to appease a wrathful deity to revive your Paladin, or perhaps your Thief never died- it just APPEARED he died, and you have to find out why.)
And lastly, #9: The game is skill based, NOT level based, and your LORD is the only character who progresses enough to warrant months/years of investment. You do NOT lose more than a week or two of progress on even the best of characters that can permanently die. So this is NOT like Everquest or World of Warcraft + permadeath. This is more along the lines of say... Left 4 Dead as a survivor, and dying RIGHT before you make it to the door. Yea it sucks, but you get the next 4 rounds to try again...and it's fun because of that reason.
I mean honestly... would Left 4 Dead be as intense, and thus fun to rush into the room if permadeath wasn't possible? And how fun is it to be the zombies- who permadeath doesnt matter at all because they respawn fast even though they're weaker? Risk vs Reward.
Risk vs. Reward.
Yes this would make it "less of an MMORPG" and more of an entirely new brand of game...BUT it's core, playstyle, and world is entirely along the lines of an MMORPG and there IS CHARACTER PROGRESSION along with PERMANENT character progression (Permanent starting LORD skills, fast character skill progression, equipment, permanent crafting skills, permanent harvesting skills, permanent gold (and you can't lose gold, as characters dont buy items themselves, their LORD pays for them directly from his bank), and rare epic equipment cannot be lost (to prevent Valorite Plate Syndrome) and instead is rewarded based on a time/hour usage (such as until it breaks, until the magic vanishes, or until the evil Lich wants his sword back, lol) while all equipment that is capable of being lost is dispensable, similar to Ultima Online. If you lost an item in Ultima Online, it wasn't THAT big of a deal bc you could just go and buy a new set of GM armor from the nearest player vendor.
Comments
I don't think it will work with most players.
Too complex. Too much work. The whole trend of the market is going for a minimal death penalty anyway.
If you implement this, it will be as niche as some perma death guild where a player delete their char upon death.
The whole trend of the market is going for a minimal death penalthy, yep.
It's also stagnation, boredom, and repetition caused by no-risk time-sink gameplay.
I am very very happy to do ANY idea (regardless if it's perma-death or NOT) that is the exact OPPOSITE of where the market is currently going.
Why? Need I even say?
WoW Clones anyone?
Too much work? Too complex? Granted it will scare away WoW kiddies...but I can only see that as a good thing. I'm not hardcore and I actually think WoW is great and enjoy any implementation that destroys time-sinks (Everquest spawn camping, Everquest traveling) but really... I could care less if it's "niche" or not. In fact, if a game was "niche" it might only get as large a population as Everquest 1 or Ultima Online had in its day.
Oops...that's still A LOT of money.
I am open ears to anyone here at MMORPG.com, but really believe that any sight of the word "perma-death" even if not what is normal, is immediately seen as taboo because it is beating an old horse.
Players never care, suffer, or cancel their subscriptions when their Hunter Pet dies. They don't rage-quit when their Warlock pet is destroyed and resummoned. DAoC players don't stop playing when their bone dancer pet dies, immediately killing their other 2+ pets.
Your LORD never dies, only your characters- which are basically pets.
I guarantee if I wrote this entirely different "Your LORD never dies, but your pets have permadeath" no one would argue, even if said pets were allowed to gain skill quickly and have equipable items.
Perceptions.
I'll just have to build a prototype and IF I want to show it to this community, open a prototype-trial multiplayer mini-game version. Then people will open their minds and realize perma-death doesn't mean taboo. Especially since MMORPG's are the only game that DOESNT have perma-death.
Some of the best selling video games of all time have perma-death. Hint: ALL FPS games, All RTS games.
Yet FPS games have implemented RPG elements into their gameplay, making them a huge hit. The same can be done in reverse, adding FPS elements to RPG gameplay. In fact, some MMORPG's have already done this via a more twitch-based combat. What about adding RTS elements to an MMORPG (perma-death minions that can gain in veterancy/experience)
In fact, many new RTS games have added experience to their units. What happens when that unit dies? It loses all of its veterancy. That sucks when you have a highly experienced RTS unit or two. It sucks, but it's still fun.
Didn't read the op's entire WOT but I saw parts I like. Character disabled for hours or days on death. Perma-Death, but you retain some skill points and items to attribute to a new character. I think you should retain the characters name in case you want to apply it to a replacement. If your skill points and items all belong to a master account, and you perma-death only afflicts individual characters on that account, I could get behind this idea.
One mechanism I am surprised hasn't used by MMOs is to incorporate death into the business model.
By that, I mean, a game with no monthly subscription, but a (small) cost to ressurect your character after death.
Allods. Pretty sure they do exactly that. Well not exactly like you describe but if you throw money at your dead character, you will get some xp back. At least thats how I believe it works beause Rappelz (another gpotato game) is the same exact way but imagine a completely CRAP code and is a pure pay2win game.
These permadeath mechanics are a good excuse for devs to make the game more grindy. It doesn't add immersion nor entertaintment value. However, in Elder Scrolls: Morrowind I didn't mind losing the stats and then spend some time looking to restore them because the game is single player with no sub and VERY immersive (glory to Azura!). In a MMO, I don't want more grind, there is a lot of grind already. Why add more grind to the gameplay? Not to mention the devs these days are releasing abortions. First develop something worth playing.
Who says permadeath would cause more grind?
I am vehemently against pointless time-sinks (like pressing numlock and running afk for 45 minutes to get to another city) and grinding should be non-existent, as long as your definition of grinding is epitomized with boredom.
If you character advancement is really fast, and LORD advancement is very slow, the game is fun and the point is to adventure, explore, collect items, pvp, pve with objectives (distract the goblins, take the box, and RUN before they release the troll!), craft, harvest, build, repair, and be part of a community...perhaps the grind would be eliminated.
One thing I want to do (so that new players ALWAYS have a chance, even if the game has been out for years) is cap the LORD's abilities to be below the maximum for a character. That way even the new player's developped characters still have a chance against long-time playing veteran's starting characters.
Also, epic items and equipment are time-based or durability. Meaning they are tied to the LORD (Account) and you can equip one character with it at a time. Once that character dies, you still have the epic item to equip on a new character. After (x) days of real life time OR (y) hours of playtime, which I'm thinking will be the hours of playtime OR durability (once it breaks) whatever.
This destroys Valorite Plate Syndrome. It means once you get Valorite Plate, it has (x) durability or (y) time enchantment. You can't lose it like you can everything else on your character. Kindof like a blessed item in Ultima Online, you just can't repair it (or...can you?)
If it's time-based, it forces players to use the item and not horde it (Valorite Plate Syndrome).
If it's durability, it allows for hording but since it's "blessed" it at least allows players to use it without fear of losing it.