Why focus their press and hype on the other 3, the stuff we "expect" to be in the game - the stuff that is the same?
They are wisely focusing on the stuff we haven't seen in a MMORPG before, meaningful story.
So basicly the only new thing about TOR is its story and the rest is same old same old?
in other words it dusnt really bring anything new to the table?
You do realise that the biggest MMO in the world was built on the idea of taking something someone else had done, polishing it up a bit and then meshing it with everything else that had been done by other people, yes? Blizzard are notorious for this approach to game design
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it. The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Moot point. 11.5 million paying customers. Largest P2P MMO and highest earning MMO in the world.
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it. The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Umm.. So what do you have to back up that first statement?? YOU don't like WoW for that reason, and there are alot of people who don't like WoW for that reason.. But the simple fact is you and those lots of poeple are in a pretty huge minority.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Succesful software developer, leading in another genre.. Check (Blizzard had RTS's, BioWare has single player RPG)
First MMO based on a popular IP.. Check (OK, so BioWare didn't create Star Wars, big deal)..
Massive funding and manpower dedicated to development.. Check
Oh.. and Stuff to Copy.. Check.
-------------------------------
They are in a very very good position to succeed with this game.
The difference being that Blizzard pulled their playerbase out of nowhere, and didn't try to steal players from other MMO's.
The only way I can see this working is if TOR makes current non-MMO gamers play their game, and does the same as Blizzard did but somehow manages to get their own audience with the same copied stuff as before.
That's why I said it only works once.
In all fairness Blizzard pulled their player base from fans of their other games (diable/starcraft/warcraft) AND by stealing from other MMORPG's out at the time.
Bioware will be doing the same thing, only they have a smaller player base of fans from their games (namely Kotor/ME/Dragon Age) and a much larger pool from other MMORPG games thanks to WoW.
It certainly does have the potential to be just as huge of a "perfect storm", at least strictly based upon the current trends and feelings as a whole within the genre, as well as their position in the over all gaming space.
Succesful software developer, leading in another genre.. Check (Blizzard had RTS's, BioWare has single player RPG)
First MMO based on a popular IP.. Check (OK, so BioWare didn't create Star Wars, big deal)..
Massive funding and manpower dedicated to development.. Check
Oh.. and Stuff to Copy.. Check.
-------------------------------
They are in a very very good position to succeed with this game.
The difference being that Blizzard pulled their playerbase out of nowhere, and didn't try to steal players from other MMO's.
The only way I can see this working is if TOR makes current non-MMO gamers play their game, and does the same as Blizzard did but somehow manages to get their own audience with the same copied stuff as before.
That's why I said it only works once.
Blizzard got their playerbase from EVERYWHERE. FFXI, EQ, all of those lost players to WoW at release.. and continued to lose them to WoW for quite sometime. That migration has all but stalled now as the game is almost 7 years old, but they didn't pull their playerbase out of nowhere. Entire linkshells went AWOL on my XI server within a week of WoW's release.
Their other market early on were the Warcraft I-III players... So BioWare does have a similar market.. The KoTOR players that aren't necessarilly MMO players, who will get into MMO's because of TOR, along with people sitting in other games for no other reason than to kill time until something new comes along.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Why focus their press and hype on the other 3, the stuff we "expect" to be in the game - the stuff that is the same?
They are wisely focusing on the stuff we haven't seen in a MMORPG before, meaningful story.
So basicly the only new thing about TOR is its story and the rest is same old same old?
in other words it dusnt really bring anything new to the table?
You do realise that the biggest MMO in the world was built on the idea of taking something someone else had done, polishing it up a bit and then meshing it with everything else that had been done by other people, yes? Blizzard are notorious for this approach to game design
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it. The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Moot point. 11.5 million paying customers. Largest P2P MMO and highest earning MMO in the world.
And Miley Cyrus broke music records thanks to the Disney marketing machine and the simple accessible mass marketed music. That doesn't mean that it's good, or that the people who are fans of actual music want even more of it.
Succesful software developer, leading in another genre.. Check (Blizzard had RTS's, BioWare has single player RPG)
First MMO based on a popular IP.. Check (OK, so BioWare didn't create Star Wars, big deal)..
Massive funding and manpower dedicated to development.. Check
Oh.. and Stuff to Copy.. Check.
-------------------------------
They are in a very very good position to succeed with this game.
The difference being that Blizzard pulled their playerbase out of nowhere, and didn't try to steal players from other MMO's.
The only way I can see this working is if TOR makes current non-MMO gamers play their game, and does the same as Blizzard did but somehow manages to get their own audience with the same copied stuff as before.
That's why I said it only works once.
How do you figure. Remember this is a MMORPG based on the Old Republic. Not only will they attract a large number of MMOer's from othe games that has become boring but introduce and add many fans of KOTOR 1 and 2.
In all fairness Blizzard pulled their player base from fans of their other games (diable/starcraft/warcraft) AND by stealing from other MMORPG's out at the time.
Bioware will be doing the same thing, only they have a smaller player base of fans from their games (namely Kotor/ME/Dragon Age) and a much larger pool from other MMORPG games thanks to WoW.
It certainly does have the potential to be just as huge of a "perfect storm", at least strictly based upon the current trends and feelings as a whole within the genre, as well as their position in the over all gaming space.
Hmm, I don't know if it's that simple.
I think that those who play Kotor, ME or Dragon Age have already played or do still play WoW. Their fanbase that hasn't ever played MMO is much smaller thanks to that.
But they may have a chance there. It just depends on exactly how large of a userbase they can bring to the genre.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The biggest difference I see between the circumstances surrounding WoW's release and what BioWare has going for them now, is the existence of the MMO hype machine. For some reason, the market just wasn't as demanding of, nor flooded with information about MMO's like it is now. And personally I think that is bad for MMO's. The more time people have to get excited about possibilities, the harder they will be let down when their expectations aren't met 100%. That is probably why we haven't gotten much out of BioWare aside from the "Yeah we're good at stories, and putting in companions". Anybody who has ever played a BioWare game knows that pretty much goes without saying, and to be honest, I'd be more shocked if they didn't put them into TOR. Kinda like when Blizzard released WoW.. I don't recall having ready access to tons of game information pre-release, and wasn't until open beta where I got my first look at what it was.. All I knew prior to that was there was an MMO based in the Warcraft world.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
"Moot point. 11.5 million paying customers. Largest P2P MMO and highest earning MMO in the world."
I don't get this point or the logic to this statement. Video gaming is a fairly new form of media and entertainment that hasn't even begun to reach it's full potential. Such numbers could double or even triple by innovation. Inviting players who never considered video gaming as a form of casual or regular entertainment could do this as many who never considered online gaming were summoned by friends, husbands, co-workers to play WoW and that market is still very limited.
Interactive media is a very powerful tool and since television has entered into the digital age, we can expect more forms of interactive media. Innovation could easily mask a social networking scheme into a new type of subscription based mmorpg that you interact directly from your tv, no consoles needed. Computer gaming could also evolve into remote control wii based interaction.
The conversations here seems to limit the possibilities of mmorpgs. I am a big fan of Bioware and I'm expecting this game to do well but the attitude that Blizzard can not be stopped is (not to be insulting) a childish and very narrow minded view of how the world works.
It just takes some balls to put out something that the gamers never saw coming in a way that is impossible to ignore. Everyone is expecting such a change to come in the form of a genre or style. It could come in the form of an entirely new way we play the game.
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it.
No, it wasn't done better. That's the point about polish. WoW didn't just copy features - it improved them.
The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
LOL. Peggle players. Har har.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Until we see otherwise, I agree with this.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Isn't this guy from Lucas Arts? Would fit well with the Star Wars trash they released called episode 1 - 3.
Anyway a very very cocky and overconfident statement. The point of a MMO is...well there is no point because you create your own story. If they think this handholding, cookie-cutter style is going to work for them, good luck there are already enough games like that...
Wonder if Bioware will show some group mechanics, endgame at the E3 because they've shown enough of their storytelling and fully voiced marketing hype.
Right now they're equal to Mythic: same overconfidence, only telling about the USP and thinking they know everything better.
Things that work in Dragon Age or Mass Effect aren't magically working in a MMO, its a different level and the most complex game you can make. Also this 100 - 150 million budget BS is real overhyped, just look at a game like Warhammer with a similar budget: http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/44427.aspx
I know publishers, fanboys will never ever understand it but the truth of the matter: World of Warcraft was and will always be an exception not the nom. I'm sure Bioware will be heavily influenced by their publishers and LA catering to the lowest of the lowest common denominator and this will lead to desaster. Question still stands, will they be happy with 500k+ or are they dreaming of highly unrealistic numbers such as 2.000k subs?!
My advice:
Just tune down the hype, shut up and show "us" what you already have without cocky, overconfident statements like this because it will backfire hard, e.g. Jacobs, Barnett and Hickman.
I really really hope they won't bring more "non mmo" clowns in this genre like Blizzard did....
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it.
No, it wasn't done better. That's the point about polish. WoW didn't just copy features - it improved them.
The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
LOL. Peggle players. Har har.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Until we see otherwise, I agree with this.
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
And Miley Cyrus broke music records thanks to the Disney marketing machine and the simple accessible mass marketed music. That doesn't mean that it's good, or that the people who are fans of actual music want even more of it.
Well, who is to say what is good? That's a very subjective judgment. WoW runs very well, on low power machines, and has tons of content and smooth combat. Frankly, name another MMO that does all that.
If more people like fast hamburgers and fries than a good slice of roast beef and baked potato, that doesn't mean hamburgers and fries are bad food.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"He added: "I don't think that [MMO creators] set out in the beginning to say: 'Hey, let's make this a grind. Let's not have any interesting content here.' A lot of the better ones more recently have interesting content for the first few levels, you know - and some of them for the first 20 levels, whatever. But it's still not the interesting content you'd expect in a single-player game."
So this guy is still thinking MMO's is the equivalent of a single player adventure game "on line".
Oh Boy, You don't play MMo's for 4 years for a predefined movie based story line...
--> Well it is his neck, not mine. I smell Age of Conan here.
Yes I do think succesful MMO's are being played for the excellent grind (meaning you keep playing the same content with different options and choices over and over and over again, because to this player it is fun and even conveniant (or he wouldn't be paying).
In fact millions of people want to look at matches for a thousand times.
How many of these people want to read the same book/movie for a hundred times?
You just do not understand what he means , you are miles off. He is saying they will bring quality to the MMO genre of the likes that can be more easily delivered in a solo game. This bodes really well as like it or not they are developing an MMO.
MMOs main positives are longevity and persistance if you can combine these and it does not feel like a grind then the developers have hit the nail on the head.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it.
No, it wasn't done better. That's the point about polish. WoW didn't just copy features - it improved them.
The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
LOL. Peggle players. Har har.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Until we see otherwise, I agree with this.
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
Dumbed down does not equal better.
Q F T
Blizzard took Bentley and transformed it into Volkswagen.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
And the text files became even shorter and shorter over the years (because they are almost insignificant in on line play), while now you'll have to listen to them in minute long NPC voices.
Like I said in an earlier post: 90% of on line players don't even care to read 6 lines of text, now they'll need to listen to 6 minutes of NPC talk.
Great and immersive in solo games, "death" in on line games, because here the interaction with people count, not NPC talk.
Reading is found to be boring by many, there is no visual emotion. Given the choice would you rather read the script of a movie or watch it? I'd rather watch it. But you know, people are different. I wonder what the majority would say.
Some people rather create their own story than have it forced into their face, some people rather do non-combat activities, craft, fishing, enteraining, doing things that are not forcing you down into one thing like a good number of MMO's today do, lack of options, lack of choices, stories and voice-acting no matter how much they throw it in your face. I found the article myself to be full of arrogance, some questions desire to be asked from this which current MMOs was he pointing at ? Or was it a thinly veiled attempt to bash all MMOs in vain effort to boost TOR, with little to no info released on their , crafting, space, non-combat activities, or raids , all that has been spoken of is voice acting , classes, and story, which so far hasn't impressed me , choices and lots of them are why I play MMOs, activities, community,minigames, non-combat features, housing.
If they really want to be different from everyone else is first not be a gear progression game, and get rid of the classes and leveling process, 150 million and all to show for it so far is voice acting and story writing and it takes money to record voice overs and write stories, and a lot of this money I can see so far will be for marketing and advertising, so in reality this may be all it has going for this game and has the potential to fall flat on its face, I await to hear more of these so -called features that will keep MMO players paying a monthly sub for this game for months and years. But until then my concerns for this game grow more and more.
And Miley Cyrus broke music records thanks to the Disney marketing machine and the simple accessible mass marketed music. That doesn't mean that it's good, or that the people who are fans of actual music want even more of it.
Well, who is to say what is good? That's a very subjective judgment. WoW runs very well, on low power machines, and has tons of content and smooth combat. Frankly, name another MMO that does all that.
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
Dumbed down does not equal better.
Yes, having multiple specs for different classes and different roles a single class could play was a "dumbed down" version of having a class with no room for variation or customization...
Yes, having more ways to level up like quests a "dumbed down" version of earlier mechanics, as it was SO fun to do nothing but party up and grind mobs...
Yes, using instances to negate the problem of camping and kill stealing was "dumbing down" the absolutely brilliant practice of.. sitting around and waiting.
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
This is just totally wrong. Instanced dungeons are better than spawn camping bosses and hoping someone doesn't kill-steal them. Offline AH is better than having to be online to sell something.
WH Online put in queue from same tier scenarios. Blizzard copied it and made it better by making it queue from anywhere. It has open RvR with sieges. Blizzard put in siege combat that ran smoothly and wasn't ten minutes of door shooting.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
Dumbed down does not equal better.
This part, is right.
Soul-killing grind doesn't equal better, either.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it.
No, it wasn't done better. That's the point about polish. WoW didn't just copy features - it improved them.
The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
LOL. Peggle players. Har har.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Until we see otherwise, I agree with this.
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
Dumbed down does not equal better.
Q F T
Blizzard took Bentley and transformed it into Volkswagen.
That would indicate that there once was a Bentley.
They are right though, most MMOs have no point in playing them once you complete all the content. If Bioware thinks that throwing better content that can be eaten through at the same rate will save the game 3-4 months in, they need to take more notes.
They are not talking content anyone can deliver lots of it. Read the context of what they are saying , they are planning to produce something a little more immersive with content that has a little more than just experience rewards. Why else would they say this unless they are doing something just a little different....
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Yes, and most MMORPG gamers don't like WoW for just that reason. Everything in it was done bigger and better by another game before it.
No, it wasn't done better. That's the point about polish. WoW didn't just copy features - it improved them.
The millions that do enjoy it, weren't typical MMORPG players, they were the casual audience, the RTS players, the peggle players, that WoW tried to rope in by presenting a simple addicting arcade style game, not a solid virtual world MMORPG.
LOL. Peggle players. Har har.
Now SWTOR looks to take that to the next step, by basically making the game a single player experience with a chat room.
Until we see otherwise, I agree with this.
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
Dumbed down does not equal better.
WoW is a great game but anyone who got to end game heroics on WoW knows it isn't innovative in the slightest. It's just popular. A few years ago, Aol was very popular to have because dial up was the way to go. The only person I know who uses Aol now is my dad and he doesn't use the internet.
My point is that any game can change the market. You can hate Bioware for their claims that story written games will give the players what they are looking for but how the hell do you know what you like if you haven't tried it yet. Players NEVER know what they want until they mess around with it stay, or leave. That's the only way you know yourself as a gamer, not pre-assumption. If Bioware staff gets cocky, maybe it's because they like what they are playing. They could be wrong, but what if they are right. What if...
I personally don't want my mmorpg experience to talk to me the entire way through. I want to experience my game not watch it. This is how I feel right now, but I can never know how that can change if something good enough persuaded me otherwise.
... but I guess someone unable to grasp these basic concepts of design and functionality probably does find Go Fish to be an incredibly challenging game.
Much more challenging then "beat your head against a wall XVII" likely their current favorite title.
Comments
Moot point. 11.5 million paying customers. Largest P2P MMO and highest earning MMO in the world.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Umm.. So what do you have to back up that first statement?? YOU don't like WoW for that reason, and there are alot of people who don't like WoW for that reason.. But the simple fact is you and those lots of poeple are in a pretty huge minority.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
In all fairness Blizzard pulled their player base from fans of their other games (diable/starcraft/warcraft) AND by stealing from other MMORPG's out at the time.
Bioware will be doing the same thing, only they have a smaller player base of fans from their games (namely Kotor/ME/Dragon Age) and a much larger pool from other MMORPG games thanks to WoW.
It certainly does have the potential to be just as huge of a "perfect storm", at least strictly based upon the current trends and feelings as a whole within the genre, as well as their position in the over all gaming space.
Blizzard got their playerbase from EVERYWHERE. FFXI, EQ, all of those lost players to WoW at release.. and continued to lose them to WoW for quite sometime. That migration has all but stalled now as the game is almost 7 years old, but they didn't pull their playerbase out of nowhere. Entire linkshells went AWOL on my XI server within a week of WoW's release.
Their other market early on were the Warcraft I-III players... So BioWare does have a similar market.. The KoTOR players that aren't necessarilly MMO players, who will get into MMO's because of TOR, along with people sitting in other games for no other reason than to kill time until something new comes along.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
And Miley Cyrus broke music records thanks to the Disney marketing machine and the simple accessible mass marketed music. That doesn't mean that it's good, or that the people who are fans of actual music want even more of it.
How do you figure. Remember this is a MMORPG based on the Old Republic. Not only will they attract a large number of MMOer's from othe games that has become boring but introduce and add many fans of KOTOR 1 and 2.
Hmm, I don't know if it's that simple.
I think that those who play Kotor, ME or Dragon Age have already played or do still play WoW. Their fanbase that hasn't ever played MMO is much smaller thanks to that.
But they may have a chance there. It just depends on exactly how large of a userbase they can bring to the genre.
Hate double posting.. but..
The biggest difference I see between the circumstances surrounding WoW's release and what BioWare has going for them now, is the existence of the MMO hype machine. For some reason, the market just wasn't as demanding of, nor flooded with information about MMO's like it is now. And personally I think that is bad for MMO's. The more time people have to get excited about possibilities, the harder they will be let down when their expectations aren't met 100%. That is probably why we haven't gotten much out of BioWare aside from the "Yeah we're good at stories, and putting in companions". Anybody who has ever played a BioWare game knows that pretty much goes without saying, and to be honest, I'd be more shocked if they didn't put them into TOR. Kinda like when Blizzard released WoW.. I don't recall having ready access to tons of game information pre-release, and wasn't until open beta where I got my first look at what it was.. All I knew prior to that was there was an MMO based in the Warcraft world.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I would like to quote The Dude (Lebowski) here: "Well, that is like - your opionion and stuff".
"Moot point. 11.5 million paying customers. Largest P2P MMO and highest earning MMO in the world."
I don't get this point or the logic to this statement. Video gaming is a fairly new form of media and entertainment that hasn't even begun to reach it's full potential. Such numbers could double or even triple by innovation. Inviting players who never considered video gaming as a form of casual or regular entertainment could do this as many who never considered online gaming were summoned by friends, husbands, co-workers to play WoW and that market is still very limited.
Interactive media is a very powerful tool and since television has entered into the digital age, we can expect more forms of interactive media. Innovation could easily mask a social networking scheme into a new type of subscription based mmorpg that you interact directly from your tv, no consoles needed. Computer gaming could also evolve into remote control wii based interaction.
The conversations here seems to limit the possibilities of mmorpgs. I am a big fan of Bioware and I'm expecting this game to do well but the attitude that Blizzard can not be stopped is (not to be insulting) a childish and very narrow minded view of how the world works.
It just takes some balls to put out something that the gamers never saw coming in a way that is impossible to ignore. Everyone is expecting such a change to come in the form of a genre or style. It could come in the form of an entirely new way we play the game.
I have the right to like what I want!
Until we see otherwise, I agree with this.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Isn't this guy from Lucas Arts? Would fit well with the Star Wars trash they released called episode 1 - 3.
Anyway a very very cocky and overconfident statement. The point of a MMO is...well there is no point because you create your own story. If they think this handholding, cookie-cutter style is going to work for them, good luck there are already enough games like that...
Wonder if Bioware will show some group mechanics, endgame at the E3 because they've shown enough of their storytelling and fully voiced marketing hype.
Right now they're equal to Mythic: same overconfidence, only telling about the USP and thinking they know everything better.
Things that work in Dragon Age or Mass Effect aren't magically working in a MMO, its a different level and the most complex game you can make. Also this 100 - 150 million budget BS is real overhyped, just look at a game like Warhammer with a similar budget: http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/44427.aspx
I know publishers, fanboys will never ever understand it but the truth of the matter: World of Warcraft was and will always be an exception not the nom. I'm sure Bioware will be heavily influenced by their publishers and LA catering to the lowest of the lowest common denominator and this will lead to desaster. Question still stands, will they be happy with 500k+ or are they dreaming of highly unrealistic numbers such as 2.000k subs?!
My advice:
Just tune down the hype, shut up and show "us" what you already have without cocky, overconfident statements like this because it will backfire hard, e.g. Jacobs, Barnett and Hickman.
I really really hope they won't bring more "non mmo" clowns in this genre like Blizzard did....
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
WoW didn't improve anything. Improve implies it added and expanded the features.
It didn't. It gutted them, pulling them down to the simplest core mechanics. They lack any sort of depth, innovation, or expansion.
Taking the EverQuest class/level/gear based advancement system, then just making it easier all around, does not make it better. It makes it more accessible to the type of people who were daunted by deep and complex game mechanics, but that doesn't mean it's a better system.
Dumbed down does not equal better.
Well, who is to say what is good? That's a very subjective judgment. WoW runs very well, on low power machines, and has tons of content and smooth combat. Frankly, name another MMO that does all that.
If more people like fast hamburgers and fries than a good slice of roast beef and baked potato, that doesn't mean hamburgers and fries are bad food.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You just do not understand what he means , you are miles off. He is saying they will bring quality to the MMO genre of the likes that can be more easily delivered in a solo game. This bodes really well as like it or not they are developing an MMO.
MMOs main positives are longevity and persistance if you can combine these and it does not feel like a grind then the developers have hit the nail on the head.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
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Blizzard took Bentley and transformed it into Volkswagen.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Some people rather create their own story than have it forced into their face, some people rather do non-combat activities, craft, fishing, enteraining, doing things that are not forcing you down into one thing like a good number of MMO's today do, lack of options, lack of choices, stories and voice-acting no matter how much they throw it in your face. I found the article myself to be full of arrogance, some questions desire to be asked from this which current MMOs was he pointing at ? Or was it a thinly veiled attempt to bash all MMOs in vain effort to boost TOR, with little to no info released on their , crafting, space, non-combat activities, or raids , all that has been spoken of is voice acting , classes, and story, which so far hasn't impressed me , choices and lots of them are why I play MMOs, activities, community,minigames, non-combat features, housing.
If they really want to be different from everyone else is first not be a gear progression game, and get rid of the classes and leveling process, 150 million and all to show for it so far is voice acting and story writing and it takes money to record voice overs and write stories, and a lot of this money I can see so far will be for marketing and advertising, so in reality this may be all it has going for this game and has the potential to fall flat on its face, I await to hear more of these so -called features that will keep MMO players paying a monthly sub for this game for months and years. But until then my concerns for this game grow more and more.
Dark Age of Camelot.
Yes, having multiple specs for different classes and different roles a single class could play was a "dumbed down" version of having a class with no room for variation or customization...
Yes, having more ways to level up like quests a "dumbed down" version of earlier mechanics, as it was SO fun to do nothing but party up and grind mobs...
Yes, using instances to negate the problem of camping and kill stealing was "dumbing down" the absolutely brilliant practice of.. sitting around and waiting.
[Mod edit]
This part, is right.
Soul-killing grind doesn't equal better, either.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That would indicate that there once was a Bentley.
They are not talking content anyone can deliver lots of it. Read the context of what they are saying , they are planning to produce something a little more immersive with content that has a little more than just experience rewards. Why else would they say this unless they are doing something just a little different....
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
WoW is a great game but anyone who got to end game heroics on WoW knows it isn't innovative in the slightest. It's just popular. A few years ago, Aol was very popular to have because dial up was the way to go. The only person I know who uses Aol now is my dad and he doesn't use the internet.
My point is that any game can change the market. You can hate Bioware for their claims that story written games will give the players what they are looking for but how the hell do you know what you like if you haven't tried it yet. Players NEVER know what they want until they mess around with it stay, or leave. That's the only way you know yourself as a gamer, not pre-assumption. If Bioware staff gets cocky, maybe it's because they like what they are playing. They could be wrong, but what if they are right. What if...
I personally don't want my mmorpg experience to talk to me the entire way through. I want to experience my game not watch it. This is how I feel right now, but I can never know how that can change if something good enough persuaded me otherwise.
I have the right to like what I want!
You are right.
Only an idiot wouldn't realize that accessibility and "depth" are not mutually exclusive.
You can have both. Easily.
Try playing chess lol
Simple rules, easy to get into, so much depth and strategy it makes EvE look like Go Fish.
... but I guess someone unable to grasp these basic concepts of design and functionality probably does find Go Fish to be an incredibly challenging game.
Much more challenging then "beat your head against a wall XVII" likely their current favorite title.