Yeah I feel ya. I also hate to have features in my adventure games that should be a problem to pass by the normal functionality of your body, but aren't, like falling from 10+ feet just to lose 10% of your hit points that regen back in few seconds anyway.
Make the fall more dangerous/damaging. Fine by me. Make jumps realistic, rather than superhuman. Also fine by me.
I also hate to be limited to few select classes on the race I want to play just because of lore.
But I'll also get over these issues if the game is good. Might be a good idea for all of us to practice that kind tolerance.
I'd prefer to remain objective about all games, rather than pick a favourite and lose all judgment about it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So I have a few concerns about this new FF MMO that I hope are not in the final version of the game.
It's a little long winded, so please bear with me. If you know that any of these are true, just let me know to soften the blow.
#1 - There may be no jumping. I know it seems pointless, but without that ability, I feel as though I am plastered against a 2D plane. Whether the game is in 3D or 2D, if I cannot jump it bothers me immensely. Imagine playing Mario and never being able to jump...
#2 - A mysterious invisible barrier that instantly stops me a foot away from touching all objects, like a box, wall, or lamppost. When this happens, it makes a game feel so restrictive and linear.
#3 - Unable to enter bodies of water. It is very rare to find a new 3D MMO these days that do not allow you to enter water. So rare, that I do not even know of any current ones that limit you in such a way and are of high quality.
#4 - Very slow movement speed. I understand all MMO's try to immerse you in its game-world, but I don't need it to be so immersive that it literally takes me ten minutes to walk from the bank to the auction area. FF-XI was painfully slow.
#5 - Overly complex crafting element. I love gathering things and making something functional from them to use or sell... However if I must click on little boxes 10+ times to generate 1 item of random quality or complete failure, I'm going to be very disappointed. I do not understand why there cannot be both methods of creating items -- One-click creations and the Multi click skilled creations... maybe make extremely rare recipes a skill game and all the rest one click wonders. By extremely rare, I mean extremely rare... Maybe 15 to 20 recipes require a "skill game" to complete. Another idea for having both methods would be after you have mastered a particular tier, all recipes in that tier become one-click creations. For instance, you're cooking a tier III fish recipe and you get enough cooking experience that you finally mastered tier III cooking... now that T3 fish recipe only takes one click to produce with a better chance of getting a high quality result.
#6 - All game servers may be in Japan. There is no point to explain why this would be bad. It should be common sense.
#7 - Transition animations prior to every single battle. Ok, this used to be cool I guess, but it is extremely boring now. I can see it used on boss encounters and only bosses.
#8 - Unable to tell a friend what server I am on so they can create a character on it. Never have I seen this done before...ever...until FF-XI. This better not happen again.
#9 - Artificial limitations to crafting skills. I should not have to be level 50 to be able to use certain crafting or fishing instruments. I can see you being unable to use a tier III fishing rod unless you have tier III fishing ability... just don't also make the requirement need a level 30 character as well. Levels and crafting skills should be completely independent from each other.
#10 - Artificial limitations to consumption items. It is odd to see a drink or food item that says you need to be level 65 to use it... Just make the stat increase that the item gives a percentage based on your level. If I am level 12 and want to purchase a top tier item that increases HP for three hours, then great... I give away my Gil and consume the item granting me +48 HP for three hours. At level 27 consuming the same item gives me +312 HP. ...and so on.
--- I have a feeling though... a horrible one... that all of the above concerns will be true. Every single one of them. Even #6 which they said there would be servers in other locations this time around -- I have doubts. I just wish they'd realize that #1 through #8 are simply not fun in MMO's that take far more time than a single player game ever would. I guess I can only hope for the best and expect the worst. As an FF fan, I'm going to have to try it regardless.
#1 - There may be no jumping. I know it seems pointless, but without that ability, I feel as though I am plastered against a 2D plane. Whether the game is in 3D or 2D, if I cannot jump it bothers me immensely and consistently.
#2 - A mysterious invisible barrier that instantly stops me a foot away from touching all objects, like a box, wall, or lamppost. When this happens, it makes the game feel so restrictive and linear.
#3 - Unable to enter bodies of water. It is very rare to find a new 3D MMO these days that does not allow you to enter water. So rare, that I do not even know of any current ones that limit you in such a way and are of high quality.
#4 - Very slow movement speed. I understand all MMO's try to immerse you in its game-world, but I don't need it to be so immersive that it literally takes me ten minutes to walk from the bank to the auction area.
#5 - Overly complex crafting element. I love gathering things and making something functional from them to use or sell... however if I must click on little boxes 10+ times to generate 1 item of random quality or complete failure, I'm going
to be very disappointed. I do not understand why there cannot be both methods of creating items -- One-click creations and the Multi click skilled creations... maybe make extremely rare recipes a skill game and all the rest one click
wonders. By extremely rare, I mean extremely rare... Maybe 15 to 20 recipes require a "skill game" to complete. Another idea for having both methods would be after you have mastered a particular tier, all recipes in that tier become
one-click creations. For instance, you're cooking a tier III fish recipe and you get enough cooking experience that you finally mastered tier III cooking... now that T3 fish recipe only takes one click to produce.
#6 - All game servers are in Japan. There is no point to explain why this would be bad. It should be common sense.
#7 - Transition animations prior to every single battle. Ok, this used to be cool I guess, but it is extremely boring now. I can see it used on boss encounters and only bosses.
#8 - Unable to tell a friend what server I am on so they can create a character on it. Never have I seen this done before...ever...until FFXI. This better not happen again.
#9 - Artificial limitations to crafting skills. I should not have to be level 50 to be able to use certain crafting or fishing instruments. I can see you being unable to use a tier III fishing rod unless you have tier III fishing ability... just don't also
make the requirement need a level 30 character as well. Levels and crafting skills should be completely independent from each other.
#10 - Artificial limitations to consumption items. It is odd to see a drink or food item that says you need to be level 65 to use it... Just make the stat increase that the item gives a percentage based on your level. If I am level 12 and want to
purchase a top tier item that increases HP for three hours, then great... I give away my Gil and consume the item granting me +48 HP for three hours. At level 27 consuming the same item gives me +312 HP. ...and so on.
#1 - There may be no jumping. I know it seems pointless, but without that ability, I feel as though I am plastered against a 2D plane. Whether the game is in 3D or 2D, if I cannot jump it bothers me immensely and consistently.
#2 - A mysterious invisible barrier that instantly stops me a foot away from touching all objects, like a box, wall, or lamppost. When this happens, it makes the game feel so restrictive and linear.
#3 - Unable to enter bodies of water. It is very rare to find a new 3D MMO these days that does not allow you to enter water. So rare, that I do not even know of any current ones that limit you in such a way and are of high quality.
#4 - Very slow movement speed. I understand all MMO's try to immerse you in its game-world, but I don't need it to be so immersive that it literally takes me ten minutes to walk from the bank to the auction area.
#5 - Overly complex crafting element. I love gathering things and making something functional from them to use or sell... however if I must click on little boxes 10+ times to generate 1 item of random quality or complete failure, I'm going
to be very disappointed. I do not understand why there cannot be both methods of creating items -- One-click creations and the Multi click skilled creations... maybe make extremely rare recipes a skill game and all the rest one click
wonders. By extremely rare, I mean extremely rare... Maybe 15 to 20 recipes require a "skill game" to complete. Another idea for having both methods would be after you have mastered a particular tier, all recipes in that tier become
one-click creations. For instance, you're cooking a tier III fish recipe and you get enough cooking experience that you finally mastered tier III cooking... now that T3 fish recipe only takes one click to produce.
#6 - All game servers are in Japan. There is no point to explain why this would be bad. It should be common sense.
#7 - Transition animations prior to every single battle. Ok, this used to be cool I guess, but it is extremely boring now. I can see it used on boss encounters and only bosses.
#8 - Unable to tell a friend what server I am on so they can create a character on it. Never have I seen this done before...ever...until FFXI. This better not happen again.
#9 - Artificial limitations to crafting skills. I should not have to be level 50 to be able to use certain crafting or fishing instruments. I can see you being unable to use a tier III fishing rod unless you have tier III fishing ability... just don't also
make the requirement need a level 30 character as well. Levels and crafting skills should be completely independent from each other.
#10 - Artificial limitations to consumption items. It is odd to see a drink or food item that says you need to be level 65 to use it... Just make the stat increase that the item gives a percentage based on your level. If I am level 12 and want to
purchase a top tier item that increases HP for three hours, then great... I give away my Gil and consume the item granting me +48 HP for three hours. At level 27 consuming the same item gives me +312 HP. ...and so on.
Dude, i hope you invest your energie in real life like this too. Bcz u could be a beast- if not, uve choosen the wrong side of life.
The point here is that you in your stuborn egocentric attitude fail to realise that although a feature like jumping may annoy you, it adds a lot more depth to the gameplay AND the world. It also saves alot of time..
The flaw here is to suggest that to include jumping is to also include content that takes measurable and worthwhile advantage of the feature. This isn't the case, or anything near it. While they could include jumping in such a way as to provide further depth and immersion to the gameplay experience, they could just as easily implement it poorly and to the detriment of those same things. Or, because it's unnecessary to the game they're wanting to provide, they could leave it out. To demand a gameplay feature that has proven excessive and/or unnecessary is to ask for a feature that probably would contribute negatively to the whole.
Everytime this jumping issue comes back around, I always want to say exactly what you've just said, except that I didn't know quite how to phrase it. Thank you for your post.
Make the fall more dangerous/damaging. Fine by me. Make jumps realistic, rather than superhuman. Also fine by me.
Ya, too bad that's not a choice in some games. It is how it is. There's always a better way for some feature to function, too bad we can't have it all (which is why you can't grasp the fact that not every game can have everything).
I'd prefer to remain objective about all games, rather than pick a favourite and lose all judgment about it.
If you want to remain objective, Every game has something that irks you, there's no way around that. Be it lack of jumping, too unrealistic jumping, lack of feature X or too much of feature X. There's ALWAYS something (if you are objective).
No game is perfect and will ever be. A good game to someone is a game where you don't care about the features that are lacking. But to you, no game is good, because you want to remain objective. Be it lack of jumping in FFXIV or lack of space combat in SW TOR, if you are objective, there is always something to complain about.
You just pick a game where it's shortcomings don't bother you as much as it's good sides, and play that one. That's how it has always been. But you can't do that, if you are objective. Have a fun life, dude.
And just to clarify, I will defend good developer decision no matter what game we're talking about. Be it SW TOR, XIV or GW2, if they do some things right they have my respect. You can just use the fanboy card but it doesn't really apply here.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The lack of jumping might bother me if I get stuck on tiny ledges and items like XI and have to walk around when you really shouldn't have too. I always thought maybe it should have an auto jump where if you run up to a ledge or something like that you would automatically just hop over it. Or add jumping to the game but make it fatigue you so you can just jump around like a rabbit ruining other peoples immersion.
My real concerns lie with how well the mouse controls are. I would really prefer not to have an all keyboard control scheme again like FFXI. After playing modern PC mmos for so long it would be very hard to transition back to not using a mouse. Feels clumsy and slow. I would like to use my mouse to control my camera, turn my character, interact with NPCs, select things etc.
WoW had lots of dungeons which had jumping required to reach certain areas, terrain features you could jump up and over to avoid running around them, and also short cuts which allowed you skip areas which you had already cleared.
You could make games which don't allow running too. You don't NEED running in an MMORPG - but it would be less real and immersive.
Don't take a flaw in the design and treat it like a plus. You know what kind of posters do that.
I mean I can do a cartwheel in RL, so I should be able to do a cartwheel in game too. I don't care if it is not required and serves no purpose what so ever. I can do it in RL so it ruins my immersion and is an obvious flaw in the design of a game if it is not in it. Oh and walking on my hands too. Yeah I can do that too. I should be able to do it as much as I want.
Does it bother the nay sayers so much to see people jumping that they rather walk around every little obstacle they come across?
Without the extra gameplay value, I also see jumping as breaking the boredom of long walks. Also, jumping on a horse looks fancy when you jump from high distances, or when you jump off a mountain in a river or things like that.
I like to look at it as skipping, I sometimes skip in real life.. Don't you?
It makes me happy, brings out the little girl in my old guyish mind.
It was fine but really, we've already killed at least 10 horses on this forum alone and in the end it doesn't matter what the conclusion is; SE will just do what they want and only the testers have a chance of affecting the development at this stage.
Wait it out and see for yourself if it's a big enough deal for you, or hopefully get into the beta and raise a big fuss over there.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
I like jumping. Meh.
I'd prefer to remain objective about all games, rather than pick a favourite and lose all judgment about it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Dude, i hope you invest your energie in real life like this too. Bcz u could be a beast- if not, uve choosen the wrong side of life.
Everytime this jumping issue comes back around, I always want to say exactly what you've just said, except that I didn't know quite how to phrase it. Thank you for your post.
The lack of jumping might bother me if I get stuck on tiny ledges and items like XI and have to walk around when you really shouldn't have too. I always thought maybe it should have an auto jump where if you run up to a ledge or something like that you would automatically just hop over it. Or add jumping to the game but make it fatigue you so you can just jump around like a rabbit ruining other peoples immersion.
My real concerns lie with how well the mouse controls are. I would really prefer not to have an all keyboard control scheme again like FFXI. After playing modern PC mmos for so long it would be very hard to transition back to not using a mouse. Feels clumsy and slow. I would like to use my mouse to control my camera, turn my character, interact with NPCs, select things etc.
I mean I can do a cartwheel in RL, so I should be able to do a cartwheel in game too. I don't care if it is not required and serves no purpose what so ever. I can do it in RL so it ruins my immersion and is an obvious flaw in the design of a game if it is not in it. Oh and walking on my hands too. Yeah I can do that too. I should be able to do it as much as I want.
Anyway...
The question here is:
Does it bother the nay sayers so much to see people jumping that they rather walk around every little obstacle they come across?
Without the extra gameplay value, I also see jumping as breaking the boredom of long walks. Also, jumping on a horse looks fancy when you jump from high distances, or when you jump off a mountain in a river or things like that.
I like to look at it as skipping, I sometimes skip in real life.. Don't you?
It makes me happy, brings out the little girl in my old guyish mind.
The question here is:
Why bump this topic? What have we done to you to deserve this?
Oh sorry :P, I know you don't like the jumping discussion but I got a mail "there has been a reply in this topic" and I didn't look at the dates.
It was fine but really, we've already killed at least 10 horses on this forum alone and in the end it doesn't matter what the conclusion is; SE will just do what they want and only the testers have a chance of affecting the development at this stage.
Wait it out and see for yourself if it's a big enough deal for you, or hopefully get into the beta and raise a big fuss over there.
Maybe I allready am, but maybe not.
And maybe just maybe, because it would still be alpha, my pc couldn't even run smoothly because there is no turning down graphics option.
But these are all just vague maybes that are not even true.
Then I hate you, because maybe I am not in... Q_Q
Now I kinda feel bad for you, seeing you are a much bigger FF fan than someone else.
Santa Clause is thinking of returning but he needs some time to think about it.