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MMO's haven't changed.
raystantz
Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237
Really, whats Different about them?
Lets analyze.
Lets take the original EQ.
- Level to the level cap
- Kill AI controlled monsters
- Kill AI controlled bosses
Lets take WoW and every game after it.
- Level to the level cap
- Kill AI controlled monsters
- Kill AI controlled bosses
Sounds the same to me..
Whats changed is the people who play them. No longer is it just uber nerds who pretend to be knights and wizards. MMO's are now played by every walk of life and this is both good and bad. But, the games themselves are about the same as they have always been.
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Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Comments
Ford Model T
Engine burns petroleum products to provide motive power
Rolls on the ground on balloon tires.
Has a steering wheel to permit directional control.
Boeing 777 jet
Engine burns petroleum products to provide motive power
Rolls on the ground on balloon tires.
Has a steering wheel to permit directional control.
You see they're exactly the same! Transportation hasn't changed since 1915!
/sarcasm
Rofl. i miss cities in the trees. i miss using my brain in games.
Couldn't have said it better well done sir.
That's a very ineffective rebuttal to the OP's post. Gaining a level is still gaining a level etc.
The differences between a Model T and Boeing 777 are large and obvious. The ones between MMOs aren't as obvious.
um.. i dont think you understood what zeit was trying to say....
Evolution dont come with big foot on the door, it come with baby steps.
to cite a few...
In the past where about kiling random mobs, newer games introduced quests to add a extra xp.
In the past gamers must have their chars always on to sell their goods, now there´s auction houses to sell it while your off.
Instances..
aint gonna enter the merit of who invented or who did better, its all subjetive, but changes HAVE been made and always will be, GOOD or BAD it all up our point of view, you dont see if yo u dont want.
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Lol no wonder we keep seeing people write "WoW-Clone", I mean if MMORPG's are really just about lvl to cap lvl, kill AI controlled mobs, then sure nothing has changed much. Pretty strange topic from a person who has a long list of played MMORPG's.
Just wondering is that all you play in MMORPG's? or did you like to leave most things that have actually changed out of this topic?
Another thing I know plenty of nerds, yes they game but most of them arn't computer gamers, often they are roleplayers in boardgames or still today with muds, even back in the day the "nerds" used computers to either make games, mods or other type of computer programs, not sure why people keep saying that nerds made up for most of the MMORPG players back in the day, I know many, yet most didn't engage in online or MMORPG games.
As one poster already showed, you can make anything sound the same as something else if you are vague enough and only compare a couple points.
MMOs have changed significantly, and I don't see why the OP would make a clearly false titled post and then use essentially zero evidence to prove his point.
Seems like the post was made for no purpose other then to attract flaming and trolling.
Man, these forums are such a strange social experiment., every day it's flush with a new static that everyone is buzzing around. First it was over LotRO's new financial model, then on how that ruins communities, then on whether any of the P2P ones are good enough to merit a subscription - finally one one MMOs not changing since they started.
Can anyone see the progression here?
What's next?
~anyway. The real point I wanted to make is this, and you can copy-paste it to your wall.
MMOs are changing. They now have better more action-derived mechanics, but at the expense of being 'massive'. There are limits to the technology, and if you would rather sacrifice gameplay for player presence, then you will have to do so. That is the only choice you are going to get.
With that said, I am looking forward to C9 and Mabinogi: Heroes, even if they revolve around hubs or lobbies.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I understand what was said. I'm saying a better example could have been given. :P
What makes EQ and WoW so different then?
You want to know what the real difference is, then and today?
The whole Idea of virtual worlds where people could pretend to be someone else for a few hours via an internet connection was a new and fresh concept, and only a niche group of people were brave enough to test its waters. Now, MMO's are just as common place as American Idol or Twilight. There's no mystery anymore. The games haven't changed that much, from the core they started on. The technology is better, but the concept is still just as basic as it was then.
You create a character, and you participate in the games content.. whether that be killing mobs or xp, or doing quests for xp.. until you reach the level cap, where you will kill stronger bosses with other players for XP. The only thing thats changed is its no longer as time consuming to do so, at least not in the same way. The SOCIAL aspect of the MMO has changed tremendously however, and more than anything is the BIGGEST thing that has changed. Thats what I was trying to get at. You can take any game you want to, even the original EQ.. or UO.. and the community by and large is the biggest thing that makes these games "not like the old days". It was all new, and fascinating then.. now MMO's are no different than the next COD game that comes out..
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
There's one common thread, though, and once you see it, everything becomes a lot clearer:
These forums are a hangout for people who don't like MMORPGs, but who wish they did.
I love mmo's, I'm just trying to "move on" as someone else said in another thread. The people that play these games have changed, and no matter what the developers do to these games, the people that play them are going to be the same for a while and its not going to ever feel like it did before.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
If you are going to present an argument that is really this poorly though out why are you bothering to post? Do you have any first-hand experience with either or both games, enough to say that both games really boil down to the gross overgeneralisations that you posted? The only thing that you have right here is that people who play MMORPGs have changed, however that isn't the only thing to have changed.
A side note: don't use the term MMO. You do not mean 'Massive Multiplayer Online,' do you? No, you mean at least MMOG, 'Massive Multiplayer Online Game' and if you want to get up in arms about something you can talk about how the strong story element is missing from some games, the 'RP' part of MMORPG. As it stands, though, call these games MMOGs or say MMO games. When we look at how poorly you've formed your argument there isn't much of a reason to think that you intend the word 'game' to come after MMO. But perhaps you did mean MMO game after all and simply want us to infer that along with the details of your argument from a largely unsubstantiated posting.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Then explain them. The OP has decided to boil things down to gross overgeneralisations. Perhaps the two of you should get together, take the ten most popular MMORPGs in the West and show us their few differences. Then, perhaps only then, you two will have an argument with some merit: as it stands now both your posting and the OP's are simply clutter.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Tomorrow the boards will all be abuzz at how GTwander has become a crotchety old bastard and isn't any fun any more ... JUST KIDDING!!
I don't know honestly. It reminds me of a cartoon I saw in a magazine once where people were all standing around at a posh party saying "Bah bah bah". Then one smug looking gentleman said "Moo". After that everyone was saying "Moo Moo Moo".
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
yeeeaaahhh... uh-huh ...but I’d replace evolution with innovation. This is technology, not some scientific theory about biology. In technology, new things just don’t materialize out of nothing, it’s all about improvements on previous technology. Unfortunately, when one builds wings and makes a hang glider and the next guy attaches tricycle wheels and a chain you get a kids tricycle stuck on the ground and cant even make it around turns any longer. So where you have like instances and zone progressive theme parks, you have no innovation for player created cities etc.
And it wasn't about killing random mobs, what did you do camp rats all the time? Questing already existed, it just wasn’t used to drive the whole of content. That is no innovation.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
MMOs actually predate first person shooters, you know. Many of us were extremely famiiar with computerizd role-playing before UO or EQ even existed.
You are correct, however. The change in customer "quality" is the single biggest change to this genre. I played a lot of SSI games, MUDs, and related games back when I was young. Then I took a relatively long break from the genre while I played another type of online game, the real-time strategy. I played Warcraft II (BNE) for over a decade while I worked full-time and worked on various personal projects. When I came back to this genre on a more permanent basis I was amazed at the difference. People who didn't really like roleplaying were playing roleplaying games... my immediate question was, why?
The difference was metagaming. Metagaming has become popular in this genre, and it hasn't had good results for those of us who actually like playing this type of game. People didn't use to play for the gear, the power, the simplisic combat mechanics. They played for the adventure, the social interaction and simulation, and the storyteling.
This "genre" of game is fractured. We need different genres for different types of players and hopefully the free-to-play item-based games can provide half of it. The social roleplaying strategist just needs to find a place to nest...
It is, it really is. We didn't have this 8 years ago. There were debates, but we didn't try to destroy one another’s games as if it was some pissing contest and winner take all. I never jumped in and said DAoC needed to be like UO or EQ. There was mutual respect to some level, we had games that were fundamentally different. Now if you go against the grain, have different tastes, you stand to be attacked and told to go away. Maturity level is the main culprit of it I think, and I'm not referring to age. Lots of people into this genre that simply do not like mmo’s, they want it to be like their other genres. And they don’t even know it.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
This is what I was trying to say in a nutshell. .. The basic concepts behind these games have no changed. You still level up, you still quest, you still group up with others. Sure, the games have varied ways of doing these objectives.. but its all still there. same as it was then. The thing thats changed, is that now due to this new "generation" of player... the ones that don't care about adventure, simulation, or social interaction. Its all about competition, getting gear as easy as possible, and showing off. Most of them probably couldn't tell you what the story of these games are about. They could care less what the names of the NPC's are, or the names of the towns, or anything. Their toons are just vehicles to build an internet ego. It didn' t used to be that way. The developers are changing the games so that they attract these kinds of players, because apparently they outnumber us. But, the basic concepts of what the games were founded on, are still there. just a different kind of player, playing and they prefer metagaming over adventuring. give them a mod that shows them how to metagame easier and they are even happier.
Its no longer about traversing through the dark caverns of The dungeon of despair, to defeat the evil arch nemesis.. its about runing DOD and hoping some purplez drop.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Ok let's say that the above is true, and then you would have to logically say that for true evolution, you would see the opposite of your 'framework'. Here's my stab at a rebuttal:
- Infinite lvls and/or infinite skill based system (without the infinite part, it means there is a 'cap')
- Kill monsters not controlled by AI, i.e. they have either become self aware or every mob has an employee controlling it 24/7. ----or------ Don't kill monsters at all.
-Kill bosses, also either self aware or with live employees controlling - or have no bosses at all
I too defer to Zymergheist's original response.
Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
Problem is that the few games that tried something abit different wasn´t received very well. PvP levelling in War, changes in combat system in AoC, Skill based systems instead of levels in DF and CO.
Question is: Do we really know what we want?
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
That is why we say it’s dumbed down. It’s solo instance oriented now. Where is the great innovation in player run cities? Can’t do that in anti-social instanced games, it won’t fit. It has changed, but mainly the things that encourage the Massive part of the equation, removed. Hunting is a no brainier, can do that in CRPG’s. But how do you defend your city form a massive invasion of MOB’s if you and everyone else are busy being lured from quest to quest, instance to instance, and designed to adjust to party size so you can do it all solo? Which instance or part of the chain of progressive zones do you build such a city? Oh at the end-game content area? hehe then we can drop our raid junk someplace lol.
Vets know what they want. Just like before, a veriety of games for diffent players, not an all in one game same as the next game. Worked before. Do you know what you want? Forget the "we".
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Fixed. I'd say that's a huge change.
OP asked what's different about them, then listed 3 ways they are similar as if to show that there are virtually unnoticable differences between mmos.
No one is saying that mmos don't have similarities. All MMOs will have similarities. What some people are upset about is the differences. Concerning those differences ONLY, those people like mmos a certain way, but the new crop of mmos are different in those ways. If you honestly don't see the differences between mmos then you are just being prejudiced.
Wrong, the only difference is graphics, and I don't care about that. The reason I had a sub to both UO and EQ1 was because they were very different. Of course UO then became like EQ so I ended my sub (AoS item based) but I had SWG that was still very different than EQ1. Then of course EQ1 started churning out instances with every expansion, all kinds of things that made it like a CRPG, so I quit playing EQ1.
But EnB was run like a cheap f2p without the f, it never got improved and so it died, like purposely killed from launch by EA. But I had SWG! Woohoo... but then they released NGE to get people like you to play, and you didn't, while the existing players left because it became too stupid. There was EQ2, but it was more of the bad things EQ1 did. DAoC went through changes too, much like EQ1 did so it lost subs and didn’t get me to play then.
But I still had SWG, and that was different from EnB
Now everything is like that, and there exist little to no difference in games. Anything new is the same formula, but with different eye candy.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.