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SWTOR- Getting way overhyped..
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I get bothered when an upcoming MMO is being touted as something like the Second Coming of Christ. Because others have tried that and they all failed to deliver. What happens is a bunch of people DO buy into that and eventually find out that the goods have failed to deliver. It happened to me with AoC and WAR, and I bought into STO also.
The expectations for TOR are big, whether you like it or not. It is BioWare, using their KOTOR setting. It is Star Wars. The last Star Wars MMO was purposefully driven into the dirt, face first. EA is dumping an ungodly amount of money into BioWare. There's alot of blind faith fans running around touting how "totally awesome" this thing is going to be already, just like people were doing for Age of Conan, and BioWare hasn't really given us much to think about. They've only given some trailers but showing nothing really about true gameplay. Hell, the last trailer they put out was very nice but you know full well it's only some cutscene, and absolutely does not give ANY sort of information about true gameplay. All to hype it up, really.
Right now it's alot of smoke and mirrors, pretty visuals. But no substance is actually being discussed. What's crafting and the economy going to be like? PvP? Is there space travel? Is there space combat? Exactly how do non-Jedi fit into this game? What about the Exile from KOTOR II? And Darth Revan from KOTOR? On and on. NOTHING has been mentioned at all. Only 2 classes, and a bunch of pretty videos.
The reason I posted that is it shows the changed mindset from BioWare. This isn't quite the same dev house that did BGI&II, NWN, etc. Back then, BioWare was quiet yet prolific since they put out good games. But right now their arrogance in their interviews they give is quite a bit out there.
Right now, the way these guys are talking and how early in development TOR is, they're setting expectations to be higher. They talk alot s**t these days. They better walk the walk with TOR when it comes out if they're going out in public trashing other game developers.
The higher up you think you are, the bigger the crash when things don't work out.
But oh well. We'll see. I'm waiting for real meat about TOR, but right now those guys aren't saying much.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
If the hype bothers you, don't read about it. Simple enough.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
..............
Misinformation alert folks.
I think you should take the time to read up on this game, actually watch the videos, and try to at least read some forum posts before you pretend to know what you're talking about. It would go a long way.
Kinda hard not to when it's plastered all over the place, i.e. on MMORPG.com, or any other gaming site
Would you care to point out my misinformation? Because from what BioWare is doing and saying, what they're actually putting out on their own TOR website, I'm spot on the money.
All fluff and no substance.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
If a recovering alcoholic can make it a day without a drink after watching commercial after commercial for beer.. (or same with an ex-smoker and all the tobacco ads and such), I'm sure a gamer can visit a site laden with links to hype a game, and simply not click on them.
It's just self control, ppl should practice it more, especially those who *know* they aren't going to like what they read once they click the link.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Everything you've said has pretty much been misinformation actually. They released a video explaining the story timeline with Revan, they have 8 classes confirmed, not 2. Not only have they outlined PvP, but they've also shown PvP videos, including ones with players actually sitting at the keyboard. Crafting and economy have not been detailed yet. There will be space travel and every player gets their own ship. 4 Races have now been confirmed. Subclassing has been announced and detailed as well as subclasses for some of the 8 classes total.
And thats just a small part of all the information they've released so far, and most of it in direct opposition of what you claim to know about the game.
And the truth... shall set you free...
Warmaker said that there was real information on 2 classes not that only two were revealed. You read that and looked for reasons to discredit it instead of actually reading what they were trying to say.
To be honest, it will be like several other "Copy-Cats", major hype. Hype is way too high and so are their expectations for the game, game doesn't match the expectations. Gain a lot of subs within the first month, more than half of those players are dissapointed and leave. Heading back to either their old game, or waiting for a new MMO.
Well that will happen no matter what. There are always people who think this is the perfect game where nothing can be bad. And in the end it never is. However, that's not the main problem with hype. The biggest problem is people not being critical. I love Bioware and have always loved their games, but that doesn't stop me from being critical of their next one each time. I need to know that it will have what I want. I have faith in Bioware to deliver, but I don't want to let that faith blind me.
I think there are a lot of people on the SW:TOR forums who attack anyone who is critical. Not only is this bad for the community, as we should not be fosterring an "us vs. them" environment, but it also means that they are not being critical of the game. The people who are "complaining" play an important role in letting Bioware know what is important for them. A lot, not all, of these people want the game to be good no matter what others may say about them being jealous.
I understand what you mean, but all in all most of the players will play it for the Starwars theme. I know for a fact I will not be playing this game, I was told it will be KotOR which I know it will not be, and as for voice actors for everything, I got enough of that in EQ2 (It did add a lot of depth to the game though).
But the MAIN reason I will not join is because it will gain millions of subs, those of which will be 99.50% jedi, 00.49% bounty hunters, and 00.01% other.
If they made the class "Jedi" grindable like how it was in SWG I'd be sold, actually, a better idea, just bring back Pre-CU and I'll sub.
I can already see the release, too many jedi's running around. Then you will hear constant yelling as "Oh my goodness their jedi spec is better NERF IT NOW I CAN'T BEAT IT!" Then you will have the argument "BOUNTY HUNTRZ KILL MY JEDI IT IS STUPID JEDI ARE UNKILLABLE NERF IT SO I CAN WIN PLEASE" and it will just KEEP going around until the game fails.
^ That is EXACTLY what happened to AoC and died within the first 3 months because of it. (Though ToS's were very OP, once they nerfed the Barbarians the ONLY thing that had a chance against them, it was game for most everyone and left)
I agree, probably everybody will have a Jedi (I know I will).. Whether or not that becomes everybody's main?? I mean, when WoW first released, everybody was convinced that it would be a world chock full of 99.9999999% druids and a barely measurable amount of other classes filling in the holes left. Based on that, I can't buy into the everybody's a Jedi argument. Besides, they made Jedi's tanks (at least one spec on each side), most of the ub3r 1337 crowd is too lazy to put the effort in to learn how to properly tank a game. Me.. I'll most likely be a Jedi, but that's also because I like to tank in MMO's and that is the tank class. Of course, I'm also your typical mid-30's been a Star Wars fan all my life, so, yeah.. Jedi!!! You say Jedi like it's a bad thing.. But Yoda tought us that Jedi's are good. Now if for whatever reason, Jedi doesn't float my boat.. Trooper baby!! And those are just my options on the Light side of the force.
Now as for the nerf this argument. How would that be different from ANY game out there, ever, past present or future?? Every single game on the market has people screaming for the nerf bat on SOMETHING.. Even EVE.. Right now it seems to be Nerf Projectile Turrets, as they are FOTM.. If I remember correctly, 3 years ago lasers were the shiz.
AoC didn't die because people complained about classes, AoC died because Funcom pushed a beta product out to market, and didn't even bother to tell people that some features that were printed on the box weren't in the release product until after people had purchased the product (cough DX10 cough).. They dug their own million sub grave there.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
To be honest I STILL believe that Jedi's will be over running the place along with BH's in the top 2 most picked class. Which to be honest I don't like the fact of that WHAT SO EVER. I mean to be honest I don't really even want to play the game but I know if I did, I would be a Jedi or a class similar to a Bio/CH like in SWG Pre-CU.
For the AoC argument, that is why half of my server left, including my guild. So I shall stick by the claims I laid.
I still think they should just drop this project and make SWG Pre-Cu with updated graphics. Ah the dream... while we are dreaming for a second, I think Turbine should bring back AC2 as well...
I know this may be used a lot, but I don't think you can discount the story element in this game. I truely believe we will see more diversity in the classes because of that. Will the majority be Jedi? Probably, but I think we will see a nice number of smugglers, soldiers, agents and bounty hunters.
Expectations kill more than just MMO's. Look at the prequel movies, the most heard comment should you bring them up is they are alright but they weren't as good as the originals. And then whoever has made this comment will go off on a rant about how great the originals were.
Now OK the prequels weren't the second coming but they were good films, light entertainment with amazing special effects. But cause everyone thought they would magically transport them back to when they were Kids and going to see Star Wars for the first time. It didn't happen cause it couldn't happen and so people some how felt let down. So if the prequels suffered from this its a sure bet that ToR will suffer from it as well.
I think the game might well be good, but the hype for ToR is making it into something new like the second coming of MMO's. From what we have seen which is very little there is nothing to say that this will offer an experience above and beyond what other MMO's offer. All the talk of story and choice are great but will it ammount to much more than we see in other MMO's with a nice story about why you need to kill some rats or choice over where your talent points should be spent. Only now you have to make choices when your talking to people to spend those talent points rather than go to a screen and pick reguardless of what conversation options you make into the games dialgoue.
Early on for sure.. I expect to see a ton of Jedi / Sith.. It's all about the light sabres and the force, at least for the first few weeks.. I still think that people will settle down into classes that more suite their normal playstyle.. Now those who might start playing MMO's because of TOR, well, that style may be Jedi.. so we'll see.. Time will tell on this one..
Considering that class imbalances were rampant in AoC early on.. I see your argument there.. My whole guild left because of how imbalanced the classes were, and how much they changed early on with the seemingly daily patches.. I still blame that on FC though, not the players complaining about things being literally night and day playwise for their toons from patch to patch, a fix for a skill that was OP in PVP would literally make a class unplayable in PVE.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
What qualifies as "real information"? He said " PvP? Is there space travel? Is there space combat? Exactly how do non-Jedi fit into this game? What about the Exile from KOTOR II? And Darth Revan from KOTOR? On and on. NOTHING has been mentioned at all. Only 2 classes, and a bunch of pretty videos."
He didn't specify anything about the amount of information released about what classes. We actually have quite a bit of information about all of the classes, their starting areas, their early missions, their starting skills, weapon types available for them, game mechanics. I read what they DO say, not what they are "trying" to say. Do or do not, there is no try.
And only Sith deal in absolutes. While he may not have been 100% correct about the newest information he seemed to know enough that anyone could easily have given him the benefit of the doubt. Obviously everyone knows what the 8 classes will be. However, we only know a bit about one or two of them.
We should always try and be working together to better conversations. Not accusing each other of not knowing anything. You only have what you bring in with you.
I agree that we should be trying to breed a better conversation, though better conversations always start with an open mind, not a fast mouth and closed ears. He felt his information was adequate, though he was many steps behind. If he was inquiring as to the information based on something he heard but couldn't confirm, this would have been a very different conversation. I dislike spreading misinformation about any game, even those I am not happy with, and I have a low tolerance for those that feel justified in doing so because they have some sort of vendetta for this game.
If we want to discuss the features of the game rationally based on the information released, and study the ebb and flow of information and opinions on it, I can totally respect that. We just have to have a community that has the capability of respecting that too.
I think that warrants that hype imo.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
So..
What should people be hyped about?
The second coming of Christ?
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I am excited for the rapture, but that won't be too long from that. Anyways, off topic
Well to me it is kind of simple.
THis is an IP we all know. The "potential" for this game is huge. And many of us are excited to try the final product.
Now, will the game be all that and a box of crackers? Who knows. Not me. I like many others can only give our opion. Until we get to play the final product we are all only guessing. And a whole lot of crossing fingers
It may live up to the hype but i do not think it will achieve the sucess that some are predicting (4 mill subscribers+ according to some game analysts
).
No matter how good the game is, sci fi MMO appeal is limited my guess is most likely around 1 million NA/Europe and another million subs. rest of the world at most. IMO the next big thing is GW 2 which likely sell 5 million+ copies.