Peersonally i feel not bad if this happens to a hacker, he wanted to scam company and wanted unfair advantage over other players.
Go Go AV !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The OP came on and gave a friendly warning and showed zero hostility towards the game and still he gets slammed? i was actually browsing these forums because i was thinking of coming back! i even started a htread asking if i should but at the moment i have to say....i have been put right of joining up again lol.......please someone post and let me know that this thread consists of the minority of DF players as i cant join a game with such a community!
Sorry for the nerd rage but it's made me so angry reading this thread as this is about the 1000th time i have read about this same problem and still the op is made out to be a liar lol!
Heh, it's never easy!
The people and the friends that we have lost, and the dreams that have faded, never forget them~
The OP came on and gave a friendly warning and showed zero hostility towards the game and still he gets slammed? i was actually browsing these forums because i was thinking of coming back! i even started a htread asking if i should but at the moment i have to say....i have been put right of joining up again lol.......please someone post and let me know that this thread consists of the minority of DF players as i cant join a game with such a community!
Sorry for the nerd rage but it's made me so angry reading this thread as this is about the 1000th time i have read about this same problem and still the op is made out to be a liar lol!
Ignore the scrubs who flamme the OP. They are just kids who got no clue in RL.
Getting banned is punishment enough. Getting banned in DF is hardest penalty you can get, because of the grind.
As mentioned before just let the bank / cc company handle it. Show the evidence about your banning and handle the info to them and you should be able to get money back.
So it isn't enough to cancel your account? If you don't remove your billing data they keep charging you? That is pretty messed up and a bit illegal, IF it were true.
I have some issues with Tasos and would be happy to see the guy suffer, BUT, I have tried DF two times and neither time have I removed my billing info after hitting cancel. And I've never been charged inappropriately. And how does it take someone six months to realize their being charged?
Peersonally i feel not bad if this happens to a hacker, he wanted to scam company and wanted unfair advantage over other players.
Go Go AV !
it's funny you mention that because if I recall correctly aren't you among those that dissaproved of the patch that was aimed at lessening the grind or at least against the part about lessening the grind?
Can't get on someone elses case about wanting an unfair advantage over others when you are complaining about losing the decisive advantage over newer players.
In any case, whether you cheated or not OP this was very bad form from AV. They have every right to ban you but they can not continue charging you for several months after doing so. Contact your CC and explain what happened and ask for a charge back, make sure you gave AV a chance to refund the money on there own first (Meaning call them up and ask). The reason being is because charge backs can really affect a company bad. If you can't get in touch with them in a couple of days, or if they won't respond to your emails explain it to your CC company and tell them you have made attempts to contact AV and tried to resolve the issue but AV simply refused to refund you or simply refused to get in touch with you about the matter. Not only will you get your money back but AV could also get slapped with an additional $100 dollar fee for the whole mess.
Under EU law, if you pay for a service, and for whatever reason the service in henceforth withdrawn regardless of fault, then it is illegal for the company to continue charging you for that service. It is not up to the customer to ensure that further charges do not continue, it is the responsibility of the service provider.
Adventurine is an EU based company, and so it has to operate under EU law.
Peersonally i feel not bad if this happens to a hacker, he wanted to scam company and wanted unfair advantage over other players.
Go Go AV !
it's funny you mention that because if I recall correctly aren't you among those that dissaproved of the patch that was aimed at lessening the grind or at least against the part about lessening the grind?
Can't get on someone elses case about wanting an unfair advantage over others when you are complaining about losing the decisive advantage over newer players.
In any case, whether you cheated or not OP this was very bad form from AV. They have every right to ban you but they can not continue charging you for several months after doing so. Contact your CC and explain what happened and ask for a charge back, make sure you gave AV a chance to refund the money on there own first (Meaning call them up and ask). The reason being is because charge backs can really affect a company bad. If you can't get in touch with them in a couple of days, or if they won't respond to your emails explain it to your CC company and tell them you have made attempts to contact AV and tried to resolve the issue but AV simply refused to refund you or simply refused to get in touch with you about the matter. Not only will you get your money back but AV could also get slapped with an additional $100 dollar fee for the whole mess.
Good luck to you.
Dunno what you oint is refering to the red text but i put there the term "unfair", there isn't anything unfair if someone gains skill through playing the game using allwed playmechanics. If you meant not attended macroing, i was always and still i am gainst afk macroers and valued that as unfair and illegal.
Well and OP case, he's bro thought he is been smart enough to hack but dump enough to not cancel his subscription. enough said. hehe.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
For all of you talking shit, this was just sent to me. I'm not a troll, I'm not a bro, I'm a Software Engineer. This issue has now been resolved. Oh and I still play DF.
Edit: Oh and for all of you who saw the reasoning, and know how law works in the EU and in the US for these companies thanks for having my back in this. I told everyone the account was banned because I'm not personally trying to hide anything, and you all have no idea the resoning why the account was banned, it was not for a 3rd party program so I could teleport all over the world. I
Hello
We thank you for your patience in this matter. After reviewing the matter thoroughly, we have agreed to refund you the following payments that you were charged for the NA account docbrown.
January 2010 (14.99 Euro)
February 2010 (14.99 Euro)
March 2010 (14.99 Euro)
April 2010 (14.99 Euro)
May 2010 (14.99 Euro)
Please allow 7-10 working days for the funds to be available to you.
Once again thank you for your support in Darkfall. We are sorry for any inconvenience that this matter has caused.
For all of you talking shit, this was just sent to me. I'm not a troll, I'm not a bro, I'm a Software Engineer. This issue has now been resolved. Oh and I still play DF.
Edit: Oh and for all of you who saw the reasoning, and know how law works in the EU and in the US for these companies thanks for having my back in this. I told everyone the account was banned because I'm not personally trying to hide anything, and you all have no idea the resoning why the account was banned, it was not for a 3rd party program so I could teleport all over the world. I
Hello
We thank you for your patience in this matter. After reviewing the matter thoroughly, we have agreed to refund you the following payments that you were charged for the NA account docbrown.
January 2010 (14.99 Euro)
February 2010 (14.99 Euro)
March 2010 (14.99 Euro)
April 2010 (14.99 Euro)
May 2010 (14.99 Euro)
Please allow 7-10 working days for the funds to be available to you.
Once again thank you for your support in Darkfall. We are sorry for any inconvenience that this matter has caused.
Regards,
Darkfall Support
Ticket Details
===================
Ticket ID: FXR-840132
Department: Accounts and Billing
Priority: High
Status: Closed
Well played OP
Credit where credit is due, he came back and even let people know that they have actually resolved the issue. Big pat on the back friend.
And ye i didn't see where he explained what he got banned for? neither did i see him complaining that he was banned, actually he said that wasn't even the issue!
Again well done OP. And sorry for my nerd rage earlier haha! think i needed a break away from my PC
I am giving this warning to all as I do not wish anyone else to have to go through what I am right now with Aventurine!
Six months ago my younger brother's account was banned. This is not the problem. The problem is AVENTURINE continued to charge him a monthly fee up until this month (June) and will not refund the monthly fee's which were charged after the account was banned! Aventurine went on to state that unless you remove your billing info they will keep charging you! Potentially even if you cancel your sub!
I give this warning to all who will heed it as I am now entering a legal battle with this company over a mere $74.95 USD. If you want any more direct information about this or this has happened to you please respond and I will have you added to the case file.
What you explain is impossible. AV never charged any monthly fees. There is no subscription. You pay for playtime in advance. If you decide to cut it short by hacking or whatever your brother did to get banned, it's entirely your problem.
Are you demanding refunds for a washmashine you willingly pushed down from the roof? I think not.
edit: it's ofc entirely possible that things are different in the states.
I am giving this warning to all as I do not wish anyone else to have to go through what I am right now with Aventurine!
Six months ago my younger brother's account was banned. This is not the problem. The problem is AVENTURINE continued to charge him a monthly fee up until this month (June) and will not refund the monthly fee's which were charged after the account was banned! Aventurine went on to state that unless you remove your billing info they will keep charging you! Potentially even if you cancel your sub!
I give this warning to all who will heed it as I am now entering a legal battle with this company over a mere $74.95 USD. If you want any more direct information about this or this has happened to you please respond and I will have you added to the case file.
Now lets tell the real story eh? Your brother got banned and forgot to cancel the subscription on his account. This is not done automatically and there is no reason AV should do this automatically.
Your brother forgot to cancel the sub payment - Your problem.
And please drop your yanky doodle dandy attitude of taking people to court for shit like this. A waste of everyones time.
Now please apologise to everyone on these forums for wasting out time and lets all move on.
I am giving this warning to all as I do not wish anyone else to have to go through what I am right now with Aventurine!
Six months ago my younger brother's account was banned. This is not the problem. The problem is AVENTURINE continued to charge him a monthly fee up until this month (June) and will not refund the monthly fee's which were charged after the account was banned! Aventurine went on to state that unless you remove your billing info they will keep charging you! Potentially even if you cancel your sub!
I give this warning to all who will heed it as I am now entering a legal battle with this company over a mere $74.95 USD. If you want any more direct information about this or this has happened to you please respond and I will have you added to the case file.
Now lets tell the real story eh? Your brother got banned and forgot to cancel the subscription on his account. This is not done automatically and there is no reason AV should do this automatically.
Your brother forgot to cancel the sub payment - Your problem.
And please drop your yanky doodle dandy attitude of taking people to court for shit like this. A waste of everyones time.
Now please apologise to everyone on these forums for wasting out time and lets all move on.
I guess the legal battle he was entering into was entirely in his own mind...
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
So you're telling me you had reoccuring subscription enabled, and when you got banned you didn't cancel this?
LMAO! Oh god, I'm sorry but that's the definition of 'owned'. Good job AV, nice sum of easy cash there, hehe. I guess cheaters lack knowledge enough to remove their subscription plan from a banned account.
_________ Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Most of you guys are obviously wrong in the head or something...
Its like paying for gym access but everytime you go they don't let you in????? but keep taking your money??? I'd seriously wanna bust some heads open if people were doing that to me. You could probably get the gym closed down for that sorta stuff.
I'm sorry, but AV is at fault here and should have refunded the money instantly.. anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Most of you guys are obviously wrong in the head or something...
Its like paying for gym access but everytime you go they don't let you in????? but keep taking your money??? I'd seriously wanna bust some heads open if people were doing that to me. You could probably get the gym closed down for that sorta stuff.
I'm sorry, but AV is at fault here and should have refunded the money instantly.. anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.
The system is exactly the same for other MMO's is the point they are making. Are you saying that this is innarcurate and that all other MMO's dont do the same thing under the same situation?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It would be interesting if OP would pursue legal battle with AV. EULA and TOS may not matter much in US court, but illegal modifications to DF code (copyright laws) and circumventing code protections (DMCA) - could cost OP fortune if AV would decide to counter-sue.
AV refunded money, because going into battle against ex-customer is not exactly good for PR, and not very good for relations with credit card companies.
It would be interesting if OP would pursue legal battle with AV. EULA and TOS may not matter much in US court, but illegal modifications to DF code (copyright laws) and circumventing code protections (DMCA) - could cost OP fortune if AV would decide to counter-sue.
AV refunded money, because going into battle against ex-customer is not exactly good for PR, and not very good for relations with credit card companies.
He would still win as he didnt do any modification to DF code. It was a software created by perxon XZY. He just uses software.
It would be like trying to punish people who uses an adblock for firefox which blocks advert for XZY homepage.
Would be utter bullshit to try this way.
Still i cant imagine AV could win this sue in USA or Europe, except they bribe the judges which seems to be standart procedure in some places.
It would be interesting if OP would pursue legal battle with AV. EULA and TOS may not matter much in US court, but illegal modifications to DF code (copyright laws) and circumventing code protections (DMCA) - could cost OP fortune if AV would decide to counter-sue.
AV refunded money, because going into battle against ex-customer is not exactly good for PR, and not very good for relations with credit card companies.
He would still win as he didnt do any modification to DF code. It was a software created by perxon XZY. He just uses software.
It would be like trying to punish people who uses an adblock for firefox which blocks advert for XZY homepage.
Would be utter bullshit to try this way.
Still i cant imagine AV could win this sue in USA or Europe, except they bribe the judges which seems to be standart procedure in some places.
in this case you are wrong, the ULA is very explict about not using 3rd party programs that alter the Darkfall world in anyway. So they would win that case pretty easily.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Most of you guys are obviously wrong in the head or something...
Its like paying for gym access but everytime you go they don't let you in????? but keep taking your money??? I'd seriously wanna bust some heads open if people were doing that to me. You could probably get the gym closed down for that sorta stuff.
I'm sorry, but AV is at fault here and should have refunded the money instantly.. anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.
The system is exactly the same for other MMO's is the point they are making. Are you saying that this is innarcurate and that all other MMO's dont do the same thing under the same situation?
Most people here are saying the OP has no right to complain and are making fun of that. Regardless of how common this might be across games it is still wrong and the OP has a right to complain and to get their money back.
Nothings going to get fixed in this area if everyone just accepts it. AV has just stolen that money; there was no exchange of goods or services.. theres no arguement.. AV has taken that money and refused to supply anything in return. I hope the OP really does sort this legally because AV doesn't stand a chance and it would be good for MMO customers in general.
Having someonse payment details does not mean to can take money for nothing, in that sense then if you gave me your details and I constantly took money from it there would be nothing you could do about it... yes, I understand that there arn't a lot of laws established around these issues with online subscriptions.. but there should be.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Why such hostility towards the OP? Clearly Aventurine is at fault on this one if everything is as the OP says.
Very true, though, not to blame the victim here... OP, ya gotta keep an eye on your finances... you should have been on this months ago. Back when I was younger and dumber, I let AOL do the same thing. Being on AOL was dumb enough... letting them charge my account almost a year before catching it, was stupid with 0's on the end...
I wouldn't be on so much about lawyers and legal battles... I'd get on with CS, and when they deny you, ask to speak to their manager. They still give you crap, ask to speak to THEIR manager...
Remember, you're dealing with WORKERS, here. THEY don't care about paying the money back, they just want you out of their hair ASAP. When you make it obvious that you aren't letting them go without your money, I bet they'll do what it takes just to get you off the line.
THe OP has already said its all resolved now, and thank you for letting us know the outcome.
And FYI, the OP would have been certainly justified in taking AV to court for this if they had not of resolved the issue. It would have been a guaranteed win, assuming there facts were as stated.
Nothings going to get fixed in this area if everyone just accepts it. AV has just stolen that money; there was no exchange of goods or services.. theres no arguement.. AV has taken that money and refused to supply anything in return. I hope the OP really does sort this legally because AV doesn't stand a chance and it would be good for MMO customers in general.
So if I'll buy WoW 1 month subscription, and start using it to promote gold selling site, and get banned on the first day - will Blizzard refund me 29 days when they're not providing a service ?
I haven't broke any laws - just EULA. Blizzard is stealing !
Anyway - AV (Tasos) told on forums, that everyone who got banned need to manually cancel recurring subscription. I've also seen e-mail screenshots on forums, with information on bans, and it clearly says that recurring subscription will not be automatically cancelled.
They treat hackers as bad as law allows them - and certainly won't spend their employee time to go through all banned accounts to cancel subscriptions.
Most of such cases go through credit card company, which has so strong position, that it can tell other company to refund the money to customer, or tell customer that they are cancelling his CC because they're tired of his complains. Noone wants to get on Visa or Mastercard "blacklist" of shady companies or not honest customers.
BTW: Not only writing and distributing hacks, but also using them is illegal according to DMCA. The only exception is when you circumvent software protections to get better compatibility with your hardware.
As it has been said this issue is now resolved. It in no way changes my opinion of AV, or the online world of Darkfall, and i in fact still play the game today. I could go into further detail, posting the entire length of communications between myself and AV, there is not much point to it though. With the issue now closed, and the results of it being what I was looking for it's done.
Nothings going to get fixed in this area if everyone just accepts it. AV has just stolen that money; there was no exchange of goods or services.. theres no arguement.. AV has taken that money and refused to supply anything in return. I hope the OP really does sort this legally because AV doesn't stand a chance and it would be good for MMO customers in general.
So if I'll buy WoW 1 month subscription, and start using it to promote gold selling site, and get banned on the first day - will Blizzard refund me 29 days when they're not providing a service ?
I haven't broke any laws - just EULA. Blizzard is stealing !
Anyway - AV (Tasos) told on forums, that everyone who got banned need to manually cancel recurring subscription. I've also seen e-mail screenshots on forums, with information on bans, and it clearly says that recurring subscription will not be automatically cancelled.
They treat hackers as bad as law allows them - and certainly won't spend their employee time to go through all banned accounts to cancel subscriptions.
Most of such cases go through credit card company, which has so strong position, that it can tell other company to refund the money to customer, or tell customer that they are cancelling his CC because they're tired of his complains. Noone wants to get on Visa or Mastercard "blacklist" of shady companies or not honest customers.
BTW: Not only writing and distributing hacks, but also using them is illegal according to DMCA. The only exception is when you circumvent software protections to get better compatibility with your hardware.
No blizzard isn't stealing, purely because that scenario is mentioned in the agreement and, whether someone read it or not, they agreed to those terms. If blizzard kept charging periodically, after that, then they would be stealing. Show me a part of the agreement that says AV have the right to keep charging fees to accounts that have been refused access to the game and i'll gladly eat my words and say that its a users fault for not reading it. If the screenshots you mentioned are accurate and from the agreement then AV is in a good legal position but not a good moral one. It is easy to put a bit of extra text into the ban message concerning this, so that users arn't charged before they notice the problem (which would happen even if you kept an eye on your finances), better to stop the problem before it happens.
Not correctly closing banned accounts is just plain lazy or spiteful to me and unprofessional. Cancelling subscriptions should, and could easily, be an automatic part of the banning process.
The reasons for being in this situation in the first place does not matter to me in slightest. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
THe OP has already said its all resolved now, and thank you for letting us know the outcome.
And FYI, the OP would have been certainly justified in taking AV to court for this if they had not of resolved the issue. It would have been a guaranteed win, assuming there facts were as stated.
Well said.
@OP: I'm glad your issue is resolved, AV was definitely at fault.
I usualy cancel my account on the next day after purchasing a subscription - that way I don't have to worry about forgetting to unsubscribe, and if I do want to continue playing - I just susbcribe again when my term expires.
Comments
Peersonally i feel not bad if this happens to a hacker, he wanted to scam company and wanted unfair advantage over other players.
Go Go AV !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Heh, it's never easy!
The people and the friends that we have lost, and the dreams that have faded, never forget them~
Ignore the scrubs who flamme the OP. They are just kids who got no clue in RL.
Getting banned is punishment enough. Getting banned in DF is hardest penalty you can get, because of the grind.
As mentioned before just let the bank / cc company handle it. Show the evidence about your banning and handle the info to them and you should be able to get money back.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
So it isn't enough to cancel your account? If you don't remove your billing data they keep charging you? That is pretty messed up and a bit illegal, IF it were true.
I have some issues with Tasos and would be happy to see the guy suffer, BUT, I have tried DF two times and neither time have I removed my billing info after hitting cancel. And I've never been charged inappropriately. And how does it take someone six months to realize their being charged?
it's funny you mention that because if I recall correctly aren't you among those that dissaproved of the patch that was aimed at lessening the grind or at least against the part about lessening the grind?
Can't get on someone elses case about wanting an unfair advantage over others when you are complaining about losing the decisive advantage over newer players.
In any case, whether you cheated or not OP this was very bad form from AV. They have every right to ban you but they can not continue charging you for several months after doing so. Contact your CC and explain what happened and ask for a charge back, make sure you gave AV a chance to refund the money on there own first (Meaning call them up and ask). The reason being is because charge backs can really affect a company bad. If you can't get in touch with them in a couple of days, or if they won't respond to your emails explain it to your CC company and tell them you have made attempts to contact AV and tried to resolve the issue but AV simply refused to refund you or simply refused to get in touch with you about the matter. Not only will you get your money back but AV could also get slapped with an additional $100 dollar fee for the whole mess.
Good luck to you.
Under EU law, if you pay for a service, and for whatever reason the service in henceforth withdrawn regardless of fault, then it is illegal for the company to continue charging you for that service. It is not up to the customer to ensure that further charges do not continue, it is the responsibility of the service provider.
Adventurine is an EU based company, and so it has to operate under EU law.
DarkSpace Developer - Play DarkSpace - Play For Free!
Medusa Engine SDK - Free MMO Game Engine
Hampton Roads/East Coast Video Gamers Association
Dunno what you oint is refering to the red text but i put there the term "unfair", there isn't anything unfair if someone gains skill through playing the game using allwed playmechanics. If you meant not attended macroing, i was always and still i am gainst afk macroers and valued that as unfair and illegal.
Well and OP case, he's bro thought he is been smart enough to hack but dump enough to not cancel his subscription. enough said. hehe.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
For all of you talking shit, this was just sent to me. I'm not a troll, I'm not a bro, I'm a Software Engineer. This issue has now been resolved. Oh and I still play DF.
Edit: Oh and for all of you who saw the reasoning, and know how law works in the EU and in the US for these companies thanks for having my back in this. I told everyone the account was banned because I'm not personally trying to hide anything, and you all have no idea the resoning why the account was banned, it was not for a 3rd party program so I could teleport all over the world. I
Hello
We thank you for your patience in this matter. After reviewing the matter thoroughly, we have agreed to refund you the following payments that you were charged for the NA account docbrown.
January 2010 (14.99 Euro)
February 2010 (14.99 Euro)
March 2010 (14.99 Euro)
April 2010 (14.99 Euro)
May 2010 (14.99 Euro)
Please allow 7-10 working days for the funds to be available to you.
Once again thank you for your support in Darkfall. We are sorry for any inconvenience that this matter has caused.
Regards,
Darkfall Support
Ticket Details
===================
Ticket ID: FXR-840132
Department: Accounts and Billing
Priority: High
Status: Closed
Well played OP
Credit where credit is due, he came back and even let people know that they have actually resolved the issue. Big pat on the back friend.
And ye i didn't see where he explained what he got banned for? neither did i see him complaining that he was banned, actually he said that wasn't even the issue!
Again well done OP. And sorry for my nerd rage earlier haha! think i needed a break away from my PC
What you explain is impossible. AV never charged any monthly fees. There is no subscription. You pay for playtime in advance. If you decide to cut it short by hacking or whatever your brother did to get banned, it's entirely your problem.
Are you demanding refunds for a washmashine you willingly pushed down from the roof? I think not.
edit: it's ofc entirely possible that things are different in the states.
Now lets tell the real story eh? Your brother got banned and forgot to cancel the subscription on his account. This is not done automatically and there is no reason AV should do this automatically.
Your brother forgot to cancel the sub payment - Your problem.
And please drop your yanky doodle dandy attitude of taking people to court for shit like this. A waste of everyones time.
Now please apologise to everyone on these forums for wasting out time and lets all move on.
I guess the legal battle he was entering into was entirely in his own mind...
So you're telling me you had reoccuring subscription enabled, and when you got banned you didn't cancel this?
LMAO! Oh god, I'm sorry but that's the definition of 'owned'. Good job AV, nice sum of easy cash there, hehe. I guess cheaters lack knowledge enough to remove their subscription plan from a banned account.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Most of you guys are obviously wrong in the head or something...
Its like paying for gym access but everytime you go they don't let you in????? but keep taking your money??? I'd seriously wanna bust some heads open if people were doing that to me. You could probably get the gym closed down for that sorta stuff.
I'm sorry, but AV is at fault here and should have refunded the money instantly.. anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.
The system is exactly the same for other MMO's is the point they are making. Are you saying that this is innarcurate and that all other MMO's dont do the same thing under the same situation?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It would be interesting if OP would pursue legal battle with AV. EULA and TOS may not matter much in US court, but illegal modifications to DF code (copyright laws) and circumventing code protections (DMCA) - could cost OP fortune if AV would decide to counter-sue.
AV refunded money, because going into battle against ex-customer is not exactly good for PR, and not very good for relations with credit card companies.
He would still win as he didnt do any modification to DF code. It was a software created by perxon XZY. He just uses software.
It would be like trying to punish people who uses an adblock for firefox which blocks advert for XZY homepage.
Would be utter bullshit to try this way.
Still i cant imagine AV could win this sue in USA or Europe, except they bribe the judges which seems to be standart procedure in some places.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
in this case you are wrong, the ULA is very explict about not using 3rd party programs that alter the Darkfall world in anyway. So they would win that case pretty easily.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Most people here are saying the OP has no right to complain and are making fun of that. Regardless of how common this might be across games it is still wrong and the OP has a right to complain and to get their money back.
Nothings going to get fixed in this area if everyone just accepts it. AV has just stolen that money; there was no exchange of goods or services.. theres no arguement.. AV has taken that money and refused to supply anything in return. I hope the OP really does sort this legally because AV doesn't stand a chance and it would be good for MMO customers in general.
Having someonse payment details does not mean to can take money for nothing, in that sense then if you gave me your details and I constantly took money from it there would be nothing you could do about it... yes, I understand that there arn't a lot of laws established around these issues with online subscriptions.. but there should be.
Very true, though, not to blame the victim here... OP, ya gotta keep an eye on your finances... you should have been on this months ago. Back when I was younger and dumber, I let AOL do the same thing. Being on AOL was dumb enough... letting them charge my account almost a year before catching it, was stupid with 0's on the end...
I wouldn't be on so much about lawyers and legal battles... I'd get on with CS, and when they deny you, ask to speak to their manager. They still give you crap, ask to speak to THEIR manager...
Remember, you're dealing with WORKERS, here. THEY don't care about paying the money back, they just want you out of their hair ASAP. When you make it obvious that you aren't letting them go without your money, I bet they'll do what it takes just to get you off the line.
THe OP has already said its all resolved now, and thank you for letting us know the outcome.
And FYI, the OP would have been certainly justified in taking AV to court for this if they had not of resolved the issue. It would have been a guaranteed win, assuming there facts were as stated.
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So if I'll buy WoW 1 month subscription, and start using it to promote gold selling site, and get banned on the first day - will Blizzard refund me 29 days when they're not providing a service ?
I haven't broke any laws - just EULA. Blizzard is stealing !
Anyway - AV (Tasos) told on forums, that everyone who got banned need to manually cancel recurring subscription. I've also seen e-mail screenshots on forums, with information on bans, and it clearly says that recurring subscription will not be automatically cancelled.
They treat hackers as bad as law allows them - and certainly won't spend their employee time to go through all banned accounts to cancel subscriptions.
Most of such cases go through credit card company, which has so strong position, that it can tell other company to refund the money to customer, or tell customer that they are cancelling his CC because they're tired of his complains. Noone wants to get on Visa or Mastercard "blacklist" of shady companies or not honest customers.
BTW: Not only writing and distributing hacks, but also using them is illegal according to DMCA. The only exception is when you circumvent software protections to get better compatibility with your hardware.
As it has been said this issue is now resolved. It in no way changes my opinion of AV, or the online world of Darkfall, and i in fact still play the game today. I could go into further detail, posting the entire length of communications between myself and AV, there is not much point to it though. With the issue now closed, and the results of it being what I was looking for it's done.
/thread
No blizzard isn't stealing, purely because that scenario is mentioned in the agreement and, whether someone read it or not, they agreed to those terms. If blizzard kept charging periodically, after that, then they would be stealing. Show me a part of the agreement that says AV have the right to keep charging fees to accounts that have been refused access to the game and i'll gladly eat my words and say that its a users fault for not reading it. If the screenshots you mentioned are accurate and from the agreement then AV is in a good legal position but not a good moral one. It is easy to put a bit of extra text into the ban message concerning this, so that users arn't charged before they notice the problem (which would happen even if you kept an eye on your finances), better to stop the problem before it happens.
Not correctly closing banned accounts is just plain lazy or spiteful to me and unprofessional. Cancelling subscriptions should, and could easily, be an automatic part of the banning process.
The reasons for being in this situation in the first place does not matter to me in slightest. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Well said.
@OP: I'm glad your issue is resolved, AV was definitely at fault.
I usualy cancel my account on the next day after purchasing a subscription - that way I don't have to worry about forgetting to unsubscribe, and if I do want to continue playing - I just susbcribe again when my term expires.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.