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General: Breaking Through the Press

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Comments

  • StraddenStradden Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696

    Originally posted by MissyShade

    That sums it up pretty well. It's not advertising so much as it is the access issues. Some game companies are bad when it comes to press relations, but many are respectful.

    Of all the reviews I've written, two have burned bridges - at least in so far that both went dead silent on me after the review went up and was sent back to them. Which is amusing, because I know that has to reflect a certain soreness on their part - my review style takes after a more "constructive criticism" approach than a "scathing review" approach. Interestingly, I'm reconnecting with one of these two companies now, so perhaps, on their part, the silence was caused by a different matter.

    Of two other very negative reviews I've written, off the top of my head, both companies are in close contact with me still and don't even mind if I ask harder questions. I know, too, many others of us who have managed to keep good relations with companies after negative reviews - as I said, they usually know when they release a bad game.

    Speaking as the Managing Editor here, I'd like thats ay that it really isn't actually an issue of access either. If your people are doing their job right, the companies in question aren't going to blacklist you for asking questions. The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

    I can see where it might be different for freelancers without the backing of major sites behind them, and without a second recourse for making sure that the information keeps flowing. I have never personally seen a dev studio blacklist a writer or an outlet for a bad review, so long as that review backs up its claims and doesn't make wild and uninformed accusations. In fact, as you said in this post but not necessarily in the article, harsh, well-founded and supported criticism more often than not leads to MORE contact with the studio in question, not less.

    So, do news outlets work in various ways to maintain good relationships with developers? Of course they do. Implying that good coverage is traded for more access, while might be the case at some outlets (I've only ever worked here so I couldn't speak to that), is going a bit far. 

    I know that here at MMORPG.com, we have a very talented Industry Relations Manager whose job it is to maintain good developer relations between them and the site and not once has he ever said to me: "If we ask them this, or we don't say what we want them to say, they'll never talk to us again."

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    Originally posted by MissyShade

     

    Nesrie: I actually am growing to enjoy F2P games more as time goes on and I learn to adjust to their model. I obviously don't believe they're "the future," but they're not a bad model when done right.

     I hope to see some articles form you on the F2P front. I am not inherently against the idea, and if i played a F2P game it would be a crossover, not a burning of the stake of P2P models that some of the coverage here suggests we need to do. One or the other. One "better" than the other. I think of all the writers I see on MMORPG, you might actually be able to discuss a F2P game without spitting at people playing P2P games while you do it.

     

    While it doesn't seem related, I think your ability to acknowledge, on some level, that there is a gaping hole in coverage while being a part of it elevates just shows your perspective is still open and not heavily biased. I understanding burning bridges is bad, but at this point, it's time to burn bridges. These publishers could easily find out they needed the media as much as the media needs them, and it's time for one side to stop lying down and taking it.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • StraddenStradden Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Yeah, that's not how it works. You DO realize that all employees of pretty much any gaming company are under strict NDAs and could face not only termination, but also legal action if they were to reveal information to us that we weren't supposed to have. It's not a question of people not knowing the answer, it's of people not being able to give an answer publically.

    So, what I'm doing is not called "being a simple puppet," it's having an actual understanding of my job, its business and the business that I deal with on a daily basis.

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Thats all fine in theory. In practice, people have families to support and mortages to pay.  There are damn few people these days who will throw it all away to pursue the truth.  My hat is off to those few who do, but they are few and far between.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697

    I find it ironic that this article is posted on this site, when was the last time that MMORPG wrote an article about a game that wasn't yet released and pointed out the negatives? They never seem to.

     

    Take STO for example, there were like 5 articles in a week, all of which hyped the game up. We all saw through all it, and the comments to the articles said as such. But it's the same with each new game they cover (I can only imagine how many articles there will be total about next SWToR before release and they will all only say positive things).

     

    It's sad to see sites that are afraid to post the truth about upcoming games and released games. Ok so at worst you write very truthful articles and a developer gets hurt feelings that his game is bad. That game no longer gives you pre-release info. Well then analyze all the other pre-release information that goes out to other sites. Also make sure to do a thorough review of the game when it is released, also being extremely truthful. It won't take long for gamers to find the site being blunt and truthful about upcoming games and you will gain the readers. Gaming companies will be forced to throw you prerelease info as well, especially when you are a popular site and keep saying things like "Game X has repeatedly denied us an interview because of our article, but given this other site who's review turned out to be very inaccurate, an interview to hype their game more"

     

    Game sites just need to get some balls and stop being whimps abotu the whole thing.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630

    What I am about to say is probably an over generalization, but I think there is a grain at least of truth to it.

     

    Most journalism (ignoring opinion pieces) focuses on the present and the past. What happened yesterday? What is happening today?

     

    Gamers are more interested in the future. When will the game I like be released? Will there be PvP? Will it be P2P? And so on.

     

    Future information is harder to get.  Especially when it belongs to a company that considers it a carefully guarded trade secret.

     

    So I can see where gaming jounalists would have a tough row to hoe getting information, and can be at the mercy of whoever dispenses that information.

     

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by Stradden

    Originally posted by Nesrie


    Originally posted by Stradden

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Yeah, that's not how it works. You DO realize that all employees of pretty much any gaming company are under strict NDAs and could face not only termination, but also legal action if they were to reveal information to us that we weren't supposed to have. It's not a question of people not knowing the answer, it's of people not being able to give an answer publically.

    So, what I'm doing is not called "being a simple puppet," it's having an actual understanding of my job, its business and the business that I deal with on a daily basis.

     

    I am glad you brought that up. I saw this a lot on the E3 floor this year, and generally from the a consumers as well as certain low level journalist.

    What it comes down to I think, is that many out there feel entitled to certain information, that it is their right to all information concerning these projects. I find that silly and childish, but it does seem to exist.

    These are games, products, entertainment..ect it is not politics or government, it doesnt need to be transparent. What I love about the entertainment industry is that they can give information when they choose to do so. It is their right, not the consumers or the journalists.

    Some how people need to get educated on why entitlement isnt rational.

  • dealakadealaka Member UncommonPosts: 21

    Originally posted by MikeB

    MMORPG.com's Player Perspectives columnist Jaime Skelton writes her column this week on the sad state of gaming journalism.


    Jaime Skelton

    Although it's closed its doors to the general public, E3, and events like it, are still geared for the general gaming public. While the press holds the invites, the material is geared for gamers: mostly eye candy like trailers and screenshots, with demos being filtered through press feedback. Even without a circus, the shows tend to be over-the-top with hopes of wooing gamers early.

    For those of you who have tried to follow all of E3 this week – and not just a few games or companies – I salute you. E3 is overwhelming for anyone, and like many other gaming journalists, I've been struggling to stay afloat in a sea of information. Although I didn't get to make it to the show this year, I'd wished I had simply for my sanity; the ability to focus on demoing products and interviewing instead of sorting through hundreds of press releases, dozens of trailers and screen shots, and filtering through varying opinions of those on the floor would have been a relief.

    Read Player Perspectives: Breaking Through the Press.



    Yep, it's sad. Really makes me believe that the gaming world (developers especially) need to take ethics classes before they're given the red shiny Developer badge. Not going to happen though so meh. Whether it's wall street or gaming, ethics are important for maintaining the trust your customers have with you.

    On a side note, I have noticed a growing trend at MMOrpg to be the bearers of 'good news' for various gaming companies who give MMOrpg exclusive or new information. Wouldn't you say that this website is in the same condition you point the finger at?

    In life there are 3 ways of dealing with a troublesome situation.

    1.) Fix it with time, money, and try to change the world to make the situation better.

    2.) Convince someone else to fix it. Endorse political figures or champions of a cause and work behind the scenes.

    3.) Ignore it and move on.

    Complaining about the situation or the state of the world gets you nowhere. You're a journalist. If you don't like how things are going, change it. What would Walter Cronkite say about this situation?

  • shavashava Member UncommonPosts: 324

    The old saying is, "'No comment' can tell you more than an answer.'"  An answer of "no comment" "I really can't answer that one" 'you'll have to wait for the press release" or "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you" is still information.

    If there are questions begging to be answered and being turned down, that's news too.  And it deserves to be reported.

    Today Ashen over at SWTOR posted another very clear as-transparent-as-possible-for-now "We can say this.  It shouldn't be construed as that.  We won't say these three things -- you'll have to wait."  Bioware will do this without asking -- defining the available information by the mask of unavailable information around it.

    This is what a journalist can do too.  If you have tough questions that aren't being answered ("Is F2P a less risky option because you had servers falling toward or under viable population on a 3 year old game?" "What can you say to reassure people who say this is going to be an alone-together single player game like Mass Effect set in Star Wars?"  "I know you can't say why XYZ was let go or fired, but can you talk more about how the organization is going to move forward in terms of staffing and management and future direction?") -- the "no I can't tell you that" and then saying "Why not?" gives the game company an opportunity to be transparent, and say, "We can't talk about server population because it's a pissing war between game companies, and people would use it against us no matter what we said." (an educational no), or "Actually, people want a game that doesn't force groups or solo play.  You can get through most AAA games soloing -- but it's just a very small minority game style.  We'll be accomodating solo, small group, and larger group play, but our balance of emphasis is likely to fall..." or "A dev group in this day and age is not as top down as it might have been.  Everyone's been in on every meeting, the scrums, the mapping out of milestones.  Any transition this far into a process is a pain, but we are expecting to make everything we need to."

    Often enough it looks like these questions just aren't asked.  The no you get might be significant even if it's a simple no, but a well-asked question can get a lot of information in a no.  Ideally, you're interviewing someone with a high diplomacy score.  If they're smart, these days, that means they'll answer authentically even when evasive.  If they don't then that's news too.

     

    yrs,

    Shava

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by dealaka

    Originally posted by MikeB

    MMORPG.com's Player Perspectives columnist Jaime Skelton writes her column this week on the sad state of gaming journalism.


    Jaime Skelton

    Although it's closed its doors to the general public, E3, and events like it, are still geared for the general gaming public. While the press holds the invites, the material is geared for gamers: mostly eye candy like trailers and screenshots, with demos being filtered through press feedback. Even without a circus, the shows tend to be over-the-top with hopes of wooing gamers early.

    For those of you who have tried to follow all of E3 this week – and not just a few games or companies – I salute you. E3 is overwhelming for anyone, and like many other gaming journalists, I've been struggling to stay afloat in a sea of information. Although I didn't get to make it to the show this year, I'd wished I had simply for my sanity; the ability to focus on demoing products and interviewing instead of sorting through hundreds of press releases, dozens of trailers and screen shots, and filtering through varying opinions of those on the floor would have been a relief.

    Read Player Perspectives: Breaking Through the Press.



    Yep, it's sad. Really makes me believe that the gaming world (developers especially) need to take ethics classes before they're given the red shiny Developer badge. Not going to happen though so meh. Whether it's wall street or gaming, ethics are important for maintaining the trust your customers have with you.

    On a side note, I have noticed a growing trend at MMOrpg to be the bearers of 'good news' for various gaming companies who give MMOrpg exclusive or new information. Wouldn't you say that this website is in the same condition you point the finger at?

    In life there are 3 ways of dealing with a troublesome situation.

    1.) Fix it with time, money, and try to change the world to make the situation better.

    2.) Convince someone else to fix it. Endorse political figures or champions of a cause and work behind the scenes.

    3.) Ignore it and move on.

    Complaining about the situation or the state of the world gets you nowhere. You're a journalist. If you don't like how things are going, change it. What would Walter Cronkite say about this situation?

    Perhaps "and thats the way it is?"... I really miss his reports.

     

    Actually, MMORPG does a fairly good job of keeping players informed and entertained. Its up to the players to consider what they are told. Everyone has a bias, thats a given. But the best at least make the attempt to keep their personal opinions separate. They aren't always successfull, but they make the attempt. The rest let their ideology and/or self interest cloud everything they do, say and report.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

  • Hopscotch73Hopscotch73 Member UncommonPosts: 971

    Great article, and all I can possibly add to the discussion is the idea that gaming journalism will probably evolve over the next few years into something more balanced than it currently is.

     

    Book publishing and game publishing have a lot in common in terms of this notion. I have a personal blog where I review books and do not pull my punches. I also work for a bookselling chain and have to be careful not to identify my employer in my posts (although some enterprising authors have dug out the info and rung me at work (!) to thank me for good reviews).

     

    Why do I have to be careful? For the same reasons Jaime mentioned, and others have outlined. Publishing is a small industry, the publishers reps are the people who give you ARCs, ARCs are gold in the book world. Well, a lot of them are iron pyrite, but behing ahead of the jump on a popular author's new book is gold. The reps are also the people you have to contact if you want to host author events or have an author come along to sign stock for you. Damage your relationship with a rep and you're screwed for all the authors they represent. Especially since publishing, like gaming, is increasingly made up of mega-corporations.

     

    Just like gaming sites, there are some review sections in print media that will not publish a bad review. To my mind they're easily disregarded. If I see a book jacket with blurbs from a number of these outlets, I'm not going to be inclined to read the book.  It's the same with games, if IGN loves it, that doesn't mean a thing to me. These sites are undercutting themselves, what happens when a game comes along that they *really* love? It'll just get lost among all the other "games we love", with a score over 8.0 that is rendered meaningless by ubiquity.

     

    And yes, things like proofreading, spelling and grammar *do* make a difference; they say a lot about a publication's (online or otherwise) standards. The standard of the article itself should be high to increase confidence that the review itself is of a high standard. If a writer / editor cba to fix spelling and grammatical errors, how can we be sure that they were bothered to play the game past the first five levels, or perform an in-depth examination of mechanics and systems? An article littered with homophone errors ("per say",  etc.) does not look professional, it looks amateurish, and if a publication wants to be taken seriously, it should take its presentation and content seriously. 

    I'm not saying game reviews and articles should be marvels of polished prose, filled with big words etc., just that clarity is king. The bigger the games industry becomes the more likely bloggers are to make the mainstream blogs/media pull up their socks on their coverage (no media outlet wants to lose out by its readers going elsewhere for better coverage). It'll happen, it'll just take a while.

     

     

     

  • zeowyrmzeowyrm Member Posts: 746

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by Teala


    Originally posted by Nesrie


    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

    "break a case"?  Seriously?  You do understand that this is just gaming journalism right?  We're not talking some sort of government cover up or something serious like the oil in the gulf, Haliburton or non-existent WMDs. 

    I mean yeah, if there was some sort of fraud being alleged, a la the current lawsuits surrounding Alganon, David Allen, and Derek Smart, then yeah, I can see the need for some hard hitting, fact finding questions.  But most of these "hard hitting" questions that gamers want answers to are along the lines of "What classes are available?" "When can I play it?" "Is it a hardcore skill based sandbox or themepark?" 

    TL:DR Gaming journalism is not the same thing as investigative reporting.

  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

    "break a case"?  Seriously?  You do understand that this is just gaming journalism right?  We're not talking some sort of government cover up or something serious like the oil in the gulf, Haliburton or non-existent WMDs. 

    I mean yeah, if there was some sort of fraud being alleged, a la the current lawsuits surrounding Alganon, David Allen, and Derek Smart, then yeah, I can see the need for some hard hitting, fact finding questions.  But most of these "hard hitting" questions that gamers want answers to are along the lines of "What classes are available?" "When can I play it?" "Is it a hardcore skill based sandbox or themepark?" 

    TL:DR Gaming journalism is not the same thing as investigative reporting.

    In respect to gaming journalism, 'breaking a case' could be asking Turbine in late 2009 if the rumors of LoTRO going F2P were true, exposing links between gold seller sites and F2P games, finding out if a game is being shut down, that Blizzard is going to axe many features from its xpac. Of course we are not talking about ground shaking, earth shattering revelations which solves the conflict in the Middle East, these are games for God's sake. But that doesn't excuse the people calling themselves gaming journalists from only regurgitating press releases.

    I have yet to see something like "An anonymous source at Blizzard gives details about the upcoming MMO". THAT would be journalism, rereleasing some info a dev has put on a blog is just cut'n'paste with an added opinion.

  • zeowyrmzeowyrm Member Posts: 746

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by zeowyrm


    Originally posted by Aercus


    Originally posted by Teala


    Originally posted by Nesrie


    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

    "break a case"?  Seriously?  You do understand that this is just gaming journalism right?  We're not talking some sort of government cover up or something serious like the oil in the gulf, Haliburton or non-existent WMDs. 

    I mean yeah, if there was some sort of fraud being alleged, a la the current lawsuits surrounding Alganon, David Allen, and Derek Smart, then yeah, I can see the need for some hard hitting, fact finding questions.  But most of these "hard hitting" questions that gamers want answers to are along the lines of "What classes are available?" "When can I play it?" "Is it a hardcore skill based sandbox or themepark?" 

    TL:DR Gaming journalism is not the same thing as investigative reporting.

    In respect to gaming journalism, 'breaking a case' could be asking Turbine in late 2009 if the rumors of LoTRO going F2P were true, exposing links between gold seller sites and F2P games, finding out if a game is being shut down, that Blizzard is going to axe many features from its xpac. Of course we are not talking about ground shaking, earth shattering revelations which solves the conflict in the Middle East, these are games for God's sake. But that doesn't excuse the people calling themselves gaming journalists from only regurgitating press releases.

    I have yet to see something like "An anonymous source at Blizzard gives details about the upcoming MMO". THAT would be journalism, rereleasing some info a dev has put on a blog is just cut'n'paste with an added opinion.

    And people have asked those questions.  They were told "No comment" or something similar for a reason.  Corporations/companies are not going to give out sensitive information.  Not just gaming companies.  Corporations have extensive NDAs that will destroy someone's career if they give out info, and most aren't willing to sacrifice that for something frivolous like "Is your game going F2P?"  An example of when someone might be willing to sacrifice their career: Being the whistleblower on an embezzlement.  Its a matter of priorities.

  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

    "break a case"?  Seriously?  You do understand that this is just gaming journalism right?  We're not talking some sort of government cover up or something serious like the oil in the gulf, Haliburton or non-existent WMDs. 

    I mean yeah, if there was some sort of fraud being alleged, a la the current lawsuits surrounding Alganon, David Allen, and Derek Smart, then yeah, I can see the need for some hard hitting, fact finding questions.  But most of these "hard hitting" questions that gamers want answers to are along the lines of "What classes are available?" "When can I play it?" "Is it a hardcore skill based sandbox or themepark?" 

    TL:DR Gaming journalism is not the same thing as investigative reporting.

    In respect to gaming journalism, 'breaking a case' could be asking Turbine in late 2009 if the rumors of LoTRO going F2P were true, exposing links between gold seller sites and F2P games, finding out if a game is being shut down, that Blizzard is going to axe many features from its xpac. Of course we are not talking about ground shaking, earth shattering revelations which solves the conflict in the Middle East, these are games for God's sake. But that doesn't excuse the people calling themselves gaming journalists from only regurgitating press releases.

    I have yet to see something like "An anonymous source at Blizzard gives details about the upcoming MMO". THAT would be journalism, rereleasing some info a dev has put on a blog is just cut'n'paste with an added opinion.

    And people have asked those questions.  They were told "No comment" or something similar for a reason.  Corporations/companies are not going to give out sensitive information.  Not just gaming companies.  Corporations have extensive NDAs that will destroy someone's career if they give out info, and most aren't willing to sacrifice that for something frivolous like "Is your game going F2P?"  An example of when someone might be willing to sacrifice their career: Being the whistleblower on an embezzlement.  Its a matter of priorities.

    That is sort of the point, they have to dig a little deeper, build stories, find facts and sources etc if they want to be called journalists. Right now they are at best commentators, reacting post-factum to events.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by zeowyrm


    Originally posted by Aercus


    Originally posted by zeowyrm


    Originally posted by Aercus


    Originally posted by Teala


    Originally posted by Nesrie


    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

    "break a case"?  Seriously?  You do understand that this is just gaming journalism right?  We're not talking some sort of government cover up or something serious like the oil in the gulf, Haliburton or non-existent WMDs. 

    I mean yeah, if there was some sort of fraud being alleged, a la the current lawsuits surrounding Alganon, David Allen, and Derek Smart, then yeah, I can see the need for some hard hitting, fact finding questions.  But most of these "hard hitting" questions that gamers want answers to are along the lines of "What classes are available?" "When can I play it?" "Is it a hardcore skill based sandbox or themepark?" 

    TL:DR Gaming journalism is not the same thing as investigative reporting.

    In respect to gaming journalism, 'breaking a case' could be asking Turbine in late 2009 if the rumors of LoTRO going F2P were true, exposing links between gold seller sites and F2P games, finding out if a game is being shut down, that Blizzard is going to axe many features from its xpac. Of course we are not talking about ground shaking, earth shattering revelations which solves the conflict in the Middle East, these are games for God's sake. But that doesn't excuse the people calling themselves gaming journalists from only regurgitating press releases.

    I have yet to see something like "An anonymous source at Blizzard gives details about the upcoming MMO". THAT would be journalism, rereleasing some info a dev has put on a blog is just cut'n'paste with an added opinion.

    And people have asked those questions.  They were told "No comment" or something similar for a reason.  Corporations/companies are not going to give out sensitive information.  Not just gaming companies.  Corporations have extensive NDAs that will destroy someone's career if they give out info, and most aren't willing to sacrifice that for something frivolous like "Is your game going F2P?"  An example of when someone might be willing to sacrifice their career: Being the whistleblower on an embezzlement.  Its a matter of priorities.

    That is sort of the point, they have to dig a little deeper, build stories, find facts and sources etc if they want to be called journalists. Right now they are at best commentators, reacting post-factum to events.

    Gaming journalism is not like newspaper journalism - they may walk the same path but there are some serious differences.   A game company employee is not going to take chances to spill info on a game if they might lose their job just to quinch the thirst of a bunch of gamers.  This isn't like a journalist finding a secret source that tells them of an affair between a high priced escort and Tiger Woods type journalism.    Not even close.

  • BenedictXVBenedictXV Member Posts: 104

    The point in journalism, is to bring out the good and the bad, show how good the product is and what are the bad points of a certain game. By trying to be in the "good fatih" of a certain game compagny those journalist kill the goal of journalism.

    I think the gaming industry should fear journalist,  they would know that if they make a shitty game, whatever if they hype it or promote it real hard, there will be a journalist to tell us the real fact about that "X" game.

    image

  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    Originally posted by Aercus

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     The reason, more often than not, that you don't see a lot of the "tough questions" is because they've been asked and not answered, or the journalists know ahead of time that certain areas are "off limits." This isn't at all unusual in entertainment journalism and quite frankly I don't see it changing any time soon.

     

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Pressing a question to a game company employee and getting said answer when they are under an NDA(and most are) can get them not only fired, but black listed.   If a gaming journalist insist on asking that tough question repeatedly than more likely than not the person getting question asked of them will become a bit frustrated and simply put their foot down for fear of what may happen and when next they are up for an interview with said journalist they are less like to be receptive to answer even the simplest of questions.    It is a razors edge journalist must sometimes walk and for the game company employee placed in the position to answer questions it is doubly precarious.

    So because you will get a 'No Comment" and upset the subject you shouldn't ask the tough question? There is a word for that: Self censorship - and it's even worse than the state sanctioned one.

    Seems to me that the gaming 'journalists' focus on the interviews potential impact on their future paychecks, NOT to uncover information, bring unbiased information, or break a case. Usually its just a 'neutral' rewrite of a press release with a few follow up questions to give the whole 'article' and air of credibility because it is supposed to have passed through the scrutinizing eyes of a journalist, but has only been applauded by a cheerleader in the process.

    "break a case"?  Seriously?  You do understand that this is just gaming journalism right?  We're not talking some sort of government cover up or something serious like the oil in the gulf, Haliburton or non-existent WMDs. 

    I mean yeah, if there was some sort of fraud being alleged, a la the current lawsuits surrounding Alganon, David Allen, and Derek Smart, then yeah, I can see the need for some hard hitting, fact finding questions.  But most of these "hard hitting" questions that gamers want answers to are along the lines of "What classes are available?" "When can I play it?" "Is it a hardcore skill based sandbox or themepark?" 

    TL:DR Gaming journalism is not the same thing as investigative reporting.

    In respect to gaming journalism, 'breaking a case' could be asking Turbine in late 2009 if the rumors of LoTRO going F2P were true, exposing links between gold seller sites and F2P games, finding out if a game is being shut down, that Blizzard is going to axe many features from its xpac. Of course we are not talking about ground shaking, earth shattering revelations which solves the conflict in the Middle East, these are games for God's sake. But that doesn't excuse the people calling themselves gaming journalists from only regurgitating press releases.

    I have yet to see something like "An anonymous source at Blizzard gives details about the upcoming MMO". THAT would be journalism, rereleasing some info a dev has put on a blog is just cut'n'paste with an added opinion.

    And people have asked those questions.  They were told "No comment" or something similar for a reason.  Corporations/companies are not going to give out sensitive information.  Not just gaming companies.  Corporations have extensive NDAs that will destroy someone's career if they give out info, and most aren't willing to sacrifice that for something frivolous like "Is your game going F2P?"  An example of when someone might be willing to sacrifice their career: Being the whistleblower on an embezzlement.  Its a matter of priorities.

    That is sort of the point, they have to dig a little deeper, build stories, find facts and sources etc if they want to be called journalists. Right now they are at best commentators, reacting post-factum to events.

    Gaming journalism is not like newspaper journalism - they may walk the same path but there are some serious differences.   A game company employee is not going to take chances to spill info on a game if they might lose their job just to quinch the thirst of a bunch of gamers.  This isn't like a journalist finding a secret source that tells them of an affair between a high priced escort and Tiger Woods type journalism.    Not even close.

    There's some pretty good critical journalism when it comes to gadgets, such as earlier this year they found the iPhone 4 ahead of announcement. I don't find the genres too different to be honest, but the ones covering games are just too lazy or unprofessional to do good work...

  • StormwatchStormwatch Member Posts: 86

    You should see Manufacturing Consent.

    Let's reverse the statement made there

    When the company loses the bludgeon, when they can't control journalists by force and when the voice of the journalists can be heard, you have this problem: it may make them so curious and so arrogant that they don't have the humility to submit to a civil rule and therefore the company has to control what they write.

    And the standard way is to resort to what in more honest days was to be called advertising and PR, manufacture of consent. Creation of nessessary illusion by various ways of either marginalizing the general public or by reducing them to apathy in some fashion and make them just recipients of ads.

    Hehe, kind of works.

    In all other cases the focus is much more on the things that are on the table, than on the things that are currently in the lab or factory. The gaming industry is different with it's extreme focus on trends and things to come. Games are treated a bit like movies, where all it matters is how they sell in the first weekend. Just before release, there is the climax with review and preview and then the topic is dead and done. There are thousands of games that are never covered and many that receive very few attention.

    So it looks like gaming journalism is ALSO echoing the money spent in advertising, by giving the most advertised product the most coverage, because they are 'the most interesting, biggest etc.' products.  

    Gaming journailsm kind of sucks. I don't buy magazines at all. Reading an article that has "Press Release" written all over it, makes the jourlists and the magazine look bad. Just from my opinion: It's kind of counter-effective for them, a lose/lose situation.

    I think it's part of the reaon they are in fact marginalized. People don't care about what some journalist writes, they are the least important, least recognized part of the information chain, they are more like the paper the news is printed on. Sure, you need it to get the info across but people really don't care about the paper of the news magazine.

     

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    Originally posted by Stradden

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    Originally posted by Stradden

     This is a weak excuse at best. If they've been answered and it's important, keep asking the question. If questions are asked and not answered, don't give up until you get an answer. Someone on the team knows. There is no such thing as "off limits" in true journalism. It's called taking risks and not being a simple puppet.

    Yeah, that's not how it works. You DO realize that all employees of pretty much any gaming company are under strict NDAs and could face not only termination, but also legal action if they were to reveal information to us that we weren't supposed to have. It's not a question of people not knowing the answer, it's of people not being able to give an answer publically.

    So, what I'm doing is not called "being a simple puppet," it's having an actual understanding of my job, its business and the business that I deal with on a daily basis.

     I don't think you understand that investigative reporting isn't just about getting the information dangling in front of you. You think breaking stories just happen? That there is no risk involved? Please, there is risk involve. An aversion to risk in itself is not an excuse. You are also taking this way too personally. The gaming media industry is, in general, hugely lacking for the very defensive reasons you are giving. You all get so uptight when people say hey, there is absolutely, no reason why you can't do more.

    I mean seriously, which company out there, in any industry, tells their employees to go out and talk to the press. None of them do and yet miraculously reporters still get their stories, still find out information that wasn't published by the marketing department, still do their jobs.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    Most gaming journalists just print the hype they are given without even questioning it.   Obviously sensitive questions won't get answers so it is understandable why some never ask them, but that does not preclude the journalist from discussing them.

    I rarely see any articles where they actually question the marketing gobbledeguck.  

    It is funny how so much of this hype plays out once the game has been out for a while as we have seen lately.  Most of these games are released 6 months to a year before they are ready.  Yet you see a lot of people buying into the hype and purchasing at release.  Yet we see little in the way of articles discussing said flaws prior to release.   

    Good article again Jaime.

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Perhaps it would be easier if everyone just realized there are no "game journalist". Noone went to journalism school or took journalism courses in college to write about video games. Not the reviewers/bloggers/"freelance writers" at Gamespot, IGN, Gamasutra, or here at mmorpg.com. The sooner you all stop referring to these people as "journalist", and the sooner they themselves stop trying to use the false label for themselves, the better it will be for all.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

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