Ok, let me start off by saying that I personally was expecting this and am not upset by this. I make no judgements on it, but I didn't notice if it was talked about yet so here it is.
In the video of the sith inquisiter on her starting planet about half-way through she begins fighting groups of NPCs. Every time she kills one you can notice that there is a text updating her on how many, out of 10, she has killed. So for anyone out there who believes that there are not going to be quests like this, the video seems to say otherwise.
Now, it's still in beta, its just one quest, etc. etc. However, the fact that it is in there does indicate that those types of quests will be present. It might change of course, but personally I would be expecting them.
I have no idea why you are stating the obvious here, there is not a single MMO now or in the future that ISN'T going have these types of quests, because of the thousands upon thousands of quests that need to be in these types of games in order to advance without mob grinding, otherwise the companies would need 10+ years in developement only for quests.
Well if you have no idea why I am stating this then just read the post under yours. As I said before I have read many times people who think that this type of quest will not be in the game. Before now, while many people have said they would be, there was still no hard evidence to point to. Now there is. I posted the "obvious" because to some it was not so obvious. I did it to make sure people understand what is probably coming.
I saw this video, and really, I'm sitting on the green grass side of the lawn. These kill 'X' quests do not scare me at all, as this is the basic formula for any type of quest or a mission, some may elaborate slightly, but it all boils down to this simple Kill 'x'.
The major highlight of this game will be to play in a un-explored star wars universe and experience a story, whether you choose to live this story with a friend or not, is your choice. But the these main campaign quests are extraordinary, so to hell with these minor side quests of kill 'x' ! No big deal at all, the campaign will be highly satisfying if I go by my previous experience with Bioware's franchise.
No one else agree....?
I think most of us do agree. However I will point out that, as this is an MMO, I doubt you will be able to avoid these types of quests and only pursue the main storyline. That may not be true, but it is where I would put my bet.
Like some say this is the part of any MMO. Its how they use it I guess. Meaning you have to kill "x" at least have it fun and I am very sad to say "Bioware has a good reputation for story and making the quests that they comprise interesting and varied" when it came to killing I saw in many videos the NPC's just standing there waiting to be killed. No life what so ever until you get close.
Yes its wonderful they all talk but the GAME it self, I hope has LIFE. Not just go kill "what ever" that has taken over the base .. you get there and 99% of the npc's are just standing there. Or the maps are like AION tiny and you cant go anywhere just follow the path.
And if its way to easy at the start.. kind of like wow is now know what I mean not that, that is a bad thing but ME I want a fight to last not 2 seconds and I killed 4 guys.
In the end for ME I really hope the "go kill 10 beserk warriors" has LIFE. If you can see them they can see you ..kind of thing.. lol most would hate that but.. FUN!
Ok, let me start off by saying that I personally was expecting this and am not upset by this. I make no judgements on it, but I didn't notice if it was talked about yet so here it is. In the video of the sith inquisiter on her starting planet about half-way through she begins fighting groups of NPCs. Every time she kills one you can notice that there is a text updating her on how many, out of 10, she has killed. So for anyone out there who believes that there are not going to be quests like this, the video seems to say otherwise. Now, it's still in beta, its just one quest, etc. etc. However, the fact that it is in there does indicate that those types of quests will be present. It might change of course, but personally I would be expecting them. Here's the link: http://e3.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/705576/E3-2010-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Exclusive-Three-Part-Demo.html (Third video down)
I have no idea why you are stating the obvious here, there is not a single MMO now or in the future that ISN'T going have these types of quests, because of the thousands upon thousands of quests that need to be in these types of games in order to advance without mob grinding, otherwise the companies would need 10+ years in developement only for quests.
Well if you have no idea why I am stating this then just read the post under yours. As I said before I have read many times people who think that this type of quest will not be in the game. Before now, while many people have said they would be, there was still no hard evidence to point to. Now there is. I posted the "obvious" because to some it was not so obvious. I did it to make sure people understand what is probably coming.
There is no way this game or any level based game can get away with no kill x quests. From another post on this forum. A bounty hunter found a sign posted out in the open play area on the side of a building for a bounty quest. He said he didn't pick it up. But I bet it would have been the typical kill 10 x to collect this bounty. Story quests should have less of this and more meaningful quests. But there will be fedex, collect x and kill x. There is no way around it in a leveling game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
When it comes to these types of quests, The Witcher is the most clever game of all time. This game makes it seem like part of the legitimate lore because these quests take the form of "contracts," which are Witcher's jobs. Plus, these contracts can be avoided altogether, but you'd be missing a lot of content if you didn't do these. Which is why I always do them.
I have no problem with that. I have no problem with some leveling. It's when you are expected to do that for 500 hours worth of game time before you can advance on to something that's actually fun that annoys me. I highly doubt that I will buy this game because it honestly looks so run of the mill obvious. Bioware isn't a multiplayer company, they have literally no multiplayer games on the market right now.
I really wish that game leveling could be done in 75 hours worth of game time, and you can only specialize in one thing. I wish that there were enough quests that the feeling of grind was never present, even if it was kill 10 of type B or deliver this here. If those quests are implemented, at least you get the occasional boost in XP. As long as I'm not doing things in solitude, then I am fine with it. I just need some sort of interaction with a guild, endgame type content, PvP that is meaningful and World PvE.
Ok, let me start off by saying that I personally was expecting this and am not upset by this. I make no judgements on it, but I didn't notice if it was talked about yet so here it is.
In the video of the sith inquisiter on her starting planet about half-way through she begins fighting groups of NPCs. Every time she kills one you can notice that there is a text updating her on how many, out of 10, she has killed. So for anyone out there who believes that there are not going to be quests like this, the video seems to say otherwise.
Now, it's still in beta, its just one quest, etc. etc. However, the fact that it is in there does indicate that those types of quests will be present. It might change of course, but personally I would be expecting them.
Ok, let me start off by saying that I personally was expecting this and am not upset by this. I make no judgements on it, but I didn't notice if it was talked about yet so here it is.
In the video of the sith inquisiter on her starting planet about half-way through she begins fighting groups of NPCs. Every time she kills one you can notice that there is a text updating her on how many, out of 10, she has killed. So for anyone out there who believes that there are not going to be quests like this, the video seems to say otherwise.
Now, it's still in beta, its just one quest, etc. etc. However, the fact that it is in there does indicate that those types of quests will be present. It might change of course, but personally I would be expecting them.
I have no idea why you are stating the obvious here, there is not a single MMO now or in the future that ISN'T going have these types of quests, because of the thousands upon thousands of quests that need to be in these types of games in order to advance without mob grinding, otherwise the companies would need 10+ years in developement only for quests.
Well if you have no idea why I am stating this then just read the post under yours. As I said before I have read many times people who think that this type of quest will not be in the game. Before now, while many people have said they would be, there was still no hard evidence to point to. Now there is. I posted the "obvious" because to some it was not so obvious. I did it to make sure people understand what is probably coming.
There is no way this game or any level based game can get away with no kill x quests. From another post on this forum. A bounty hunter found a sign posted out in the open play area on the side of a building for a bounty quest. He said he didn't pick it up. But I bet it would have been the typical kill 10 x to collect this bounty. Story quests should have less of this and more meaningful quests. But there will be fedex, collect x and kill x. There is no way around it in a leveling game.
And again, I AGREE WITH YOU. You seem to insist on arguing this point against someone who has said since the beginning that he isn't against this. However, while I agreed with you and have thought this way from the beginning not everyone did. There are still people who believe that this game will not have this type of quest. There were some who believed that, like in KotOR you would play from start to finish without ever going into the field and killing 20 sith or what have you. I have disagreed with the point of view, but until now we have had no way to show this for certain.
I started this thread because it is the first instance of seeing this on video. Not because I disagree with it or because I am judging it. I am giving information on what the game will probably be like based on a video.
There is no way this game or any level based game can get away with no kill x quests. From another post on this forum. A bounty hunter found a sign posted out in the open play area on the side of a building for a bounty quest. He said he didn't pick it up. But I bet it would have been the typical kill 10 x to collect this bounty. Story quests should have less of this and more meaningful quests. But there will be fedex, collect x and kill x. There is no way around it in a leveling game.
No, it can be avoided, it just takes a lot more work. This quests are ABOUT something with a particular goal in mind.
"Clean out the infestation of X in this area" could instead be about going in and destroying a nest/eggs/whatever. Yeah, you might kill N of the creatures doing it, but you have a very specific job to do to reach that end. Similarly, bounties could be to kill the bandit leader or sub-leader or whatever, and yeah, you might kill N little banditos on the way, but it won't feel at all like a requirement. Really pulling this off well requires some phasing or other technology so that when you get rid of the threat, then the threat is GONE. This has the advantage of making a feeling a progress and making a difference much stronger.
I like how GW2 looks (and this might not be how it works for everything), where you are told to get rid of threat X, you go and do that. Then maybe a group of Y's moves in later and someone else has to take care of them (or not, in which case the Y's get stronger and start to do bad things). Of course, in an MMO, you'd need vast areas, ideally, where multiple little threats could and grow.
I don't see how you can say there's no way around such things. There are plenty.
There is no way this game or any level based game can get away with no kill x quests. From another post on this forum. A bounty hunter found a sign posted out in the open play area on the side of a building for a bounty quest. He said he didn't pick it up. But I bet it would have been the typical kill 10 x to collect this bounty. Story quests should have less of this and more meaningful quests. But there will be fedex, collect x and kill x. There is no way around it in a leveling game.
No, it can be avoided, it just takes a lot more work. This quests are ABOUT something with a particular goal in mind.
"Clean out the infestation of X in this area" could instead be about going in and destroying a nest/eggs/whatever. Yeah, you might kill N of the creatures doing it, but you have a very specific job to do to reach that end. Similarly, bounties could be to kill the bandit leader or sub-leader or whatever, and yeah, you might kill N little banditos on the way, but it won't feel at all like a requirement. Really pulling this off well requires some phasing or other technology so that when you get rid of the threat, then the threat is GONE. This has the advantage of making a feeling a progress and making a difference much stronger.
I like how GW2 looks (and this might not be how it works for everything), where you are told to get rid of threat X, you go and do that. Then maybe a group of Y's moves in later and someone else has to take care of them (or not, in which case the Y's get stronger and start to do bad things). Of course, in an MMO, you'd need vast areas, ideally, where multiple little threats could and grow.
I don't see how you can say there's no way around such things. There are plenty.
I understand what you are saying. And I believe that the story quests in TOR will be kill x in disguise so you won't notice as much as othe games. But in an open MMO, you will have quests for the many many players running around with you in the the same place. Unless they use instancing or phasing as you say like LOTRO. But then you are seperating the population into smaller and smaller areas. That gets rid of the open MMO feeling that many want. Any you get a SPG with multiplayer options.
As far as GW2 and the defend x quest. Yes, it is a quest that you only take if you want to. But you still kill x to defend y. Also you are going to have to decrease the amount of players in the area to make this work. What happens in an open MMO if 100 players all rush in to defend y? Will everyone get credit? Will it be PvP so some can defend and some attack? Will it be instance runs like GW1 so only you or your party are in the instance with the defend x optional quest?
I know what you are trying to say and I agree. The game that hides the kill x quest the best seems like a better system. But in all games it comes down to killing x for a reason or to grind. Most of us want a reason over a grind. I would like to think BW will have more of the reason over the grind given their SPG track record. That goes for GW2 as well.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
As long as there is a purpose behind the quests then it doesn't bother me much. However, if it is Kill X Rats because I say so, well that is just lazy and poor design.
There is no way this game or any level based game can get away with no kill x quests. From another post on this forum. A bounty hunter found a sign posted out in the open play area on the side of a building for a bounty quest. He said he didn't pick it up. But I bet it would have been the typical kill 10 x to collect this bounty. Story quests should have less of this and more meaningful quests. But there will be fedex, collect x and kill x. There is no way around it in a leveling game.
No, it can be avoided, it just takes a lot more work. This quests are ABOUT something with a particular goal in mind.
"Clean out the infestation of X in this area" could instead be about going in and destroying a nest/eggs/whatever. Yeah, you might kill N of the creatures doing it, but you have a very specific job to do to reach that end. Similarly, bounties could be to kill the bandit leader or sub-leader or whatever, and yeah, you might kill N little banditos on the way, but it won't feel at all like a requirement. Really pulling this off well requires some phasing or other technology so that when you get rid of the threat, then the threat is GONE. This has the advantage of making a feeling a progress and making a difference much stronger.
I like how GW2 looks (and this might not be how it works for everything), where you are told to get rid of threat X, you go and do that. Then maybe a group of Y's moves in later and someone else has to take care of them (or not, in which case the Y's get stronger and start to do bad things). Of course, in an MMO, you'd need vast areas, ideally, where multiple little threats could and grow.
I don't see how you can say there's no way around such things. There are plenty.
I understand what you are saying. And I believe that the story quests in TOR will be kill x in disguise so you won't notice as much as othe games. But in an open MMO, you will have quests for the many many players running around with you in the the same place. Unless they use instancing or phasing as you say like LOTRO. But then you are seperating the population into smaller and smaller areas. That gets rid of the open MMO feeling that many want. Any you get a SPG with multiplayer options.
As far as GW2 and the defend x quest. Yes, it is a quest that you only take if you want to. But you still kill x to defend y. Also you are going to have to decrease the amount of players in the area to make this work. What happens in an open MMO if 100 players all rush in to defend y? Will everyone get credit? Will it be PvP so some can defend and some attack? Will it be instance runs like GW1 so only you or your party are in the instance with the defend x optional quest?
I know what you are trying to say and I agree. The game that hides the kill x quest the best seems like a better system. But in all games it comes down to killing x for a reason or to grind. Most of us want a reason over a grind. I would like to think BW will have more of the reason over the grind given their SPG track record. That goes for GW2 as well.
Let's take the GW2 approach (roughly speaking) as the example of how to move away from a quest that is "Kill X".
If you are defending a town, then yeah, there are N mobs attacking and at some point they go away. However, the big difference is that you kill those guys and then they are GONE. The attack is not constantly happening. There are also consequences for not killing those guys (the town gets destroyed and monsters take over). In fact, this speaks of a more organic environment than what we are used to in MMOs today.
In a game like WoW, the town would be constantly attacked or attacked every 2 or 3 minutes, and never destroyed. Nothing ever CHANGES in an MMO made in that way. I think the ideal way to "hide" the kill X quests is to make observable consequences for doing or not doing the quest and have the world respond in logical ways. A game like that, if you see a town under attack, you aren't going to soon scoff and say "bah, I'm not defending the town from this pointless attack that happens every 2 minutes and never results in anything." Instead, if your character is a good guy, then he'll defend the town and the town will not get destroyed and taken over by monsters.
In short, the problem I have with kill X quests is they are actions with no consequences. Lack of consequences is one of the biggest problems with modern MMOs. ToR will have story-based consequences at least, which give some more reason and choice to actions than you normally see. MMOs can move beyond that further as GW2 seems to be aiming for -- I am not saying GW2 will be perfect in this regard, and I am sure there will be spawning monsters and so forth that you typically see, but it is a big step towards the goal of an organic/realistic world.
The problem with adding story to an MMO is that unless the world changed just for you then it doesn't mean anything. At most characters might say different things to you but towns are not going to go away, people wont magically die away forever and everyone else can do exactly what you did. Bioware tries to throw the idea that your class has its own story but I hate to tell you, it aint going to involve anything more then go here, then go here then go here, talk to this guy then talk to that guy. If anything you may have to kill someone or defend somebody and that is nothing new of innovative. The only thing that will make TOR stand out from any other MMO is the fact that they spent the money for more voices. That's It.
Long ago Bioware made some sweeping comments one was about multiple players ganging up to take down a boss mob and another was about every combat feeling heroic and not just being the killing of 10 rats. Now we have seen in the group combat a group bashing a boss mob and from the hands on demo that you will be killing 10 space rats or slugs. I don't think this should come as much of a surprise to anyone, its an MMO. You can't just have slaying one opponent and then returning or you are going to be through the game very quickly and they want to keep you playing and paying for many months.
I do think it shows a little of the inexperience of Bioware in the MMO market. A lot of times this E3 they spoke about if other mmo's have it we will or it will be wow like or if wow and war have it then we will have it or they will see how testing goes and decide from then. This makes me feel they lack an overal design structure, rather than having a vission of what the game is going to be, they decided they were going to have story and add this to the MMO. And now they realise that isn't an MMO thats just one of 4 pillars and now they are lacking a vission so they start looking to other MMO's. And realising that you have to have boss fights, you have to have kill 10 rats and you have to have PvP and crafting. What we will see though may end up being a mess where these things weren't part of the orginial concept and overlooked and now have to be forced into the game.
LOL! Kill 10 space rats! How original. Anyone today whom believes the hype these companys put out is a sucker. Thousands of years ago a phrase was coined; Caveat emptor.
About quests, I think it's very hard to do without 'kill 10 X' or 'Go to Y'.
GW2 has an interesting solution to it, but as good as all of the current MMO's and the majority of the upcoming MMO's will have the regular quests in the standard way.
Bioware's take on quests looks to be having them become more meaningful, integrated in a larger story. I wouldn't mind that appraoch too: it isn't the 'killing of 10 whatevers' that can be mindnumbing, but the fact that it's often so blatantly obvious that that is what it's about. It's the same reason why (some) people skip the quest text, because it doesn't really make you feel involved or of your quest having a larger impact on the world you're wandering through. GW2's solution I admit is the best one so far to solve this, but I wouldn't also mind if quests were presented in a ME2 way where it makes them feel part in a larger story, or where your quest objectives could change in the course of the mission, depending on the actions you take.
Besides that, in the latest interviews Bioware devs also mentioned that they're building rewards and interesting stuff to do for people who want to go offtrack, just doing their own thing in the TOR world without following the storyline track.
If and how they succeed in both, more engaging quests and interesting 'offtrack' gameplay experience, I guess we'll see in the upcoming months when more is revealed and when the beta arrives.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Well if you have no idea why I am stating this then just read the post under yours. As I said before I have read many times people who think that this type of quest will not be in the game. Before now, while many people have said they would be, there was still no hard evidence to point to. Now there is. I posted the "obvious" because to some it was not so obvious. I did it to make sure people understand what is probably coming.
I think most of us do agree. However I will point out that, as this is an MMO, I doubt you will be able to avoid these types of quests and only pursue the main storyline. That may not be true, but it is where I would put my bet.
Well, OK Bioware, then at least let me mind-trick the quest givers to kill less berserkers. :P
~ "Five berserkers will be fine."
"These are not the berserkers you are looking for"
Like some say this is the part of any MMO. Its how they use it I guess. Meaning you have to kill "x" at least have it fun and I am very sad to say "Bioware has a good reputation for story and making the quests that they comprise interesting and varied" when it came to killing I saw in many videos the NPC's just standing there waiting to be killed. No life what so ever until you get close.
Yes its wonderful they all talk but the GAME it self, I hope has LIFE. Not just go kill "what ever" that has taken over the base .. you get there and 99% of the npc's are just standing there. Or the maps are like AION tiny and you cant go anywhere just follow the path.
And if its way to easy at the start.. kind of like wow is now know what I mean not that, that is a bad thing but ME I want a fight to last not 2 seconds and I killed 4 guys.
In the end for ME I really hope the "go kill 10 beserk warriors" has LIFE. If you can see them they can see you ..kind of thing.. lol most would hate that but.. FUN!
Or even convince the quest giver to go kill em himself. That should be possible if your charisma is at max :P
I have no idea why you are stating the obvious here, there is not a single MMO now or in the future that ISN'T going have these types of quests, because of the thousands upon thousands of quests that need to be in these types of games in order to advance without mob grinding, otherwise the companies would need 10+ years in developement only for quests.
Well if you have no idea why I am stating this then just read the post under yours. As I said before I have read many times people who think that this type of quest will not be in the game. Before now, while many people have said they would be, there was still no hard evidence to point to. Now there is. I posted the "obvious" because to some it was not so obvious. I did it to make sure people understand what is probably coming.
There is no way this game or any level based game can get away with no kill x quests. From another post on this forum. A bounty hunter found a sign posted out in the open play area on the side of a building for a bounty quest. He said he didn't pick it up. But I bet it would have been the typical kill 10 x to collect this bounty. Story quests should have less of this and more meaningful quests. But there will be fedex, collect x and kill x. There is no way around it in a leveling game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
When it comes to these types of quests, The Witcher is the most clever game of all time. This game makes it seem like part of the legitimate lore because these quests take the form of "contracts," which are Witcher's jobs. Plus, these contracts can be avoided altogether, but you'd be missing a lot of content if you didn't do these. Which is why I always do them.
I have no problem with that. I have no problem with some leveling. It's when you are expected to do that for 500 hours worth of game time before you can advance on to something that's actually fun that annoys me. I highly doubt that I will buy this game because it honestly looks so run of the mill obvious. Bioware isn't a multiplayer company, they have literally no multiplayer games on the market right now.
I really wish that game leveling could be done in 75 hours worth of game time, and you can only specialize in one thing. I wish that there were enough quests that the feeling of grind was never present, even if it was kill 10 of type B or deliver this here. If those quests are implemented, at least you get the occasional boost in XP. As long as I'm not doing things in solitude, then I am fine with it. I just need some sort of interaction with a guild, endgame type content, PvP that is meaningful and World PvE.
If you don't like delivery quest or quest where you have to kill X amount of enemys you should quit mmoRPG's, at least for now.
And again, I AGREE WITH YOU. You seem to insist on arguing this point against someone who has said since the beginning that he isn't against this. However, while I agreed with you and have thought this way from the beginning not everyone did. There are still people who believe that this game will not have this type of quest. There were some who believed that, like in KotOR you would play from start to finish without ever going into the field and killing 20 sith or what have you. I have disagreed with the point of view, but until now we have had no way to show this for certain.
I started this thread because it is the first instance of seeing this on video. Not because I disagree with it or because I am judging it. I am giving information on what the game will probably be like based on a video.
I have ammended my OP so that people coming in can understand why I am writing this. As I said in the first post, I am not against this in any way.
No, it can be avoided, it just takes a lot more work. This quests are ABOUT something with a particular goal in mind.
"Clean out the infestation of X in this area" could instead be about going in and destroying a nest/eggs/whatever. Yeah, you might kill N of the creatures doing it, but you have a very specific job to do to reach that end. Similarly, bounties could be to kill the bandit leader or sub-leader or whatever, and yeah, you might kill N little banditos on the way, but it won't feel at all like a requirement. Really pulling this off well requires some phasing or other technology so that when you get rid of the threat, then the threat is GONE. This has the advantage of making a feeling a progress and making a difference much stronger.
I like how GW2 looks (and this might not be how it works for everything), where you are told to get rid of threat X, you go and do that. Then maybe a group of Y's moves in later and someone else has to take care of them (or not, in which case the Y's get stronger and start to do bad things). Of course, in an MMO, you'd need vast areas, ideally, where multiple little threats could and grow.
I don't see how you can say there's no way around such things. There are plenty.
I understand what you are saying. And I believe that the story quests in TOR will be kill x in disguise so you won't notice as much as othe games. But in an open MMO, you will have quests for the many many players running around with you in the the same place. Unless they use instancing or phasing as you say like LOTRO. But then you are seperating the population into smaller and smaller areas. That gets rid of the open MMO feeling that many want. Any you get a SPG with multiplayer options.
As far as GW2 and the defend x quest. Yes, it is a quest that you only take if you want to. But you still kill x to defend y. Also you are going to have to decrease the amount of players in the area to make this work. What happens in an open MMO if 100 players all rush in to defend y? Will everyone get credit? Will it be PvP so some can defend and some attack? Will it be instance runs like GW1 so only you or your party are in the instance with the defend x optional quest?
I know what you are trying to say and I agree. The game that hides the kill x quest the best seems like a better system. But in all games it comes down to killing x for a reason or to grind. Most of us want a reason over a grind. I would like to think BW will have more of the reason over the grind given their SPG track record. That goes for GW2 as well.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
As long as there is a purpose behind the quests then it doesn't bother me much. However, if it is Kill X Rats because I say so, well that is just lazy and poor design.
Let's take the GW2 approach (roughly speaking) as the example of how to move away from a quest that is "Kill X".
If you are defending a town, then yeah, there are N mobs attacking and at some point they go away. However, the big difference is that you kill those guys and then they are GONE. The attack is not constantly happening. There are also consequences for not killing those guys (the town gets destroyed and monsters take over). In fact, this speaks of a more organic environment than what we are used to in MMOs today.
In a game like WoW, the town would be constantly attacked or attacked every 2 or 3 minutes, and never destroyed. Nothing ever CHANGES in an MMO made in that way. I think the ideal way to "hide" the kill X quests is to make observable consequences for doing or not doing the quest and have the world respond in logical ways. A game like that, if you see a town under attack, you aren't going to soon scoff and say "bah, I'm not defending the town from this pointless attack that happens every 2 minutes and never results in anything." Instead, if your character is a good guy, then he'll defend the town and the town will not get destroyed and taken over by monsters.
In short, the problem I have with kill X quests is they are actions with no consequences. Lack of consequences is one of the biggest problems with modern MMOs. ToR will have story-based consequences at least, which give some more reason and choice to actions than you normally see. MMOs can move beyond that further as GW2 seems to be aiming for -- I am not saying GW2 will be perfect in this regard, and I am sure there will be spawning monsters and so forth that you typically see, but it is a big step towards the goal of an organic/realistic world.
LOL! Kill 10 space rats! How original. Anyone today whom believes the hype these companys put out is a sucker. Thousands of years ago a phrase was coined; Caveat emptor.
About quests, I think it's very hard to do without 'kill 10 X' or 'Go to Y'.
GW2 has an interesting solution to it, but as good as all of the current MMO's and the majority of the upcoming MMO's will have the regular quests in the standard way.
Bioware's take on quests looks to be having them become more meaningful, integrated in a larger story. I wouldn't mind that appraoch too: it isn't the 'killing of 10 whatevers' that can be mindnumbing, but the fact that it's often so blatantly obvious that that is what it's about. It's the same reason why (some) people skip the quest text, because it doesn't really make you feel involved or of your quest having a larger impact on the world you're wandering through. GW2's solution I admit is the best one so far to solve this, but I wouldn't also mind if quests were presented in a ME2 way where it makes them feel part in a larger story, or where your quest objectives could change in the course of the mission, depending on the actions you take.
Besides that, in the latest interviews Bioware devs also mentioned that they're building rewards and interesting stuff to do for people who want to go offtrack, just doing their own thing in the TOR world without following the storyline track.
If and how they succeed in both, more engaging quests and interesting 'offtrack' gameplay experience, I guess we'll see in the upcoming months when more is revealed and when the beta arrives.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."