Ranged combat, Automatic or Aiming

EMidget

In an MMORPG, would you prefer ranged combat to be just like melee combat where you just press attack and it fires, or would you want some type of aiming system for when a player is ready to attack, he goes into a different view (could-be 1st or 3rd view) and must aim at his target?

My idea and questions if there was ranged...

1. Targetted hits, hit in the legs would affect movement speed, arms attack power, head shot would be hard to achieve but it's a critical hit (Can't just do 1 hit kills, imagine a large raid, and BOOM!)
2. Should you have to adjust your angle or power... how would this be done if you did?
3. Alternative to question 2. Should you just need to put a "cross-hair" over your target and press attack?

Any other ideas or comments on this are helpful.

Thanks

BTW, it's bows were using here if that helps.

scarvein

I would really like such a system in action. but there are so many lazy bitchezz in MMORPGS who will never want to do it THey just like the hack and slack more, coz it eliminates all advances and player skill

ALL AIMERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!!

EMidget

Well that was the main issue I was thinking is it could be a major turn-off for other players, which is the reason it should be really easy to use but harder to master. I'm just having trouble thinking of how I can do that.

Altimit

The ranged weapon system from Vampire - The Masquerade Bloodlines with a little tweaking would be good in an mmorpg. Like a first person shooter but still somewhat stats based, your accuracy also decreases when you're running around or changing where you're aiming.

EMidget

Haven't played it, mind explaining?

Orcc

Dungeons and Dragons Online requires you to aim im qutie sure... I hope they dont make the arrows fly 100% straight, they should fall with distance/speed.

Also I have heard, but dont quote me on this, that Dark and Light allows you to aim a bow.

EMidget

Yes, but which would you prefer? and how do you suggest it work?

Orcc

Ah, well being a big fan of action/shooters, I would love to see a system like D&DO, where it relies more heavily on player skill, rather than hitting an attack button and going to the bathroom. The player would have to compensate for drop, distance and what-not to make a hit. I love the sound of D&DOs combat system so far, with doding, blocking, shooting, spells and ranged combat all initiated by the player, and where the is more skill involved rather than relying more on your gear and stats.

Parapsycho

Well, being an Auto Assault fanboy (), I have to say I like the way they are doing their aiming system. Each weapon has a firing arc. If you get your enemy within that firing arc and attack, there is a dice roll to see if you hit or not. Granted, players are going to be in fast moving vehicles, but I think this could be adapted to bows by reducing the firing arc quite a bit.
The reason this system is being impemented, is to account for lag, wich is present in all games. If you go with a pure FPS style system (that doesnt use stats to see if you hit), you get what is referred to as lag-aiming. Let me explain:
*note: this is for a pure fps type system*
Your game client says that the target is at Point A
The server, which is slightly ahead of your client, says the target is at point B
The target, if on another client, says its at point C
Which point will the first player target? Probably point A at first, but soon they catch on and start firing at point B to increase their chances. If that happens, the player isnt aiming at where the target is on their client, they are aiming at thin air instead. Once people start doing that, the game loses its realism and looks really silly.

So, the best way to go would be to have the player aim using whatever system (either a firing arc or crosshair most likely), than have the game randomly determine if you hit or not, depending on your stats.

Serph

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Originally posted by Orcc
Ah, well being a big fan of action/shooters, I would love to see a system like D&DO, where it relies more heavily on player skill, rather than hitting an attack button and going to the bathroom. The player would have to compensate for drop, distance and what-not to make a hit. I love the sound of D&DOs combat system so far, with doding, blocking, shooting, spells and ranged combat all initiated by the player, and where the is more skill involved rather than relying more on your gear and stats.

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I am quite sure DDO is not going for player skill to kill an openent. I believe there will be quite advanced moving etc, and there will probably be different manouvers you can do, but aiming your distance etc I dont think will be apart of it. Just because of the fact that DDO is based on the D20 3.5 ruleset.

As for the author, I would dislike aiming for ranged combat, due to the fact not everyone has a cable modem, and even those who do, may get a bad connection, or get dc'ed etc. As well as soon as its players skill it is open to 3rd party software macroing and what not. I'd rather have the server handle my fighting, then my opponents macro handling it.

Serph,

MasterChaos

The type of aiming system I would love to see in an MMORPG is similar to that found in a lot of first person shooters.

You have a targeting reticle, lets say two concentric circles.  The inner is the target the out is your accuracy.  If you stand still and take time to aim the outer circle would converge on the inner circle and when they meet, you are on target for the perfect shot.  Factor in monster movement, your skill and attributes and you have a system that would work.

As far as making the auto attackers mad, dont they play melee anyway?

Korpz

The problems with aiming in MMORPGs come from 2 areas,

1 - Lag, Ping times on servers of half a second are not unheard of in MMORPG games, this can make aiming any weapon, but especially ones with a relatively slow projectile such as a bow, difficult if not impossible

2 - Character Skill, You may be very accomplished at moving you mouse around, but how do you translate that to your character. Its not as simple as reduceing the size of the recticle for aiming so your shots scatter less, a good archer will be able to select a different arrow head depending on the type of armour the target is wearing plus a number of other factors.

Personally I'm all for aiming the bow yourself, but then I'm all for instant kills if you get an arrow in the face, as in real life. So what do I know.

A Korpz in all things

panache

Ranged combat always seems to revert back into melee....take SWG for example. It used to annoy the the hell out of me to be using a carbine 1 foot away from the target

Pan

Bhazir

If you want aiming for ranged go and play a FPS, MMORPG should stick to the rolls and the stats of the player firing the weapon. Otherwise you just specialize in melee because ranged is just your own skill at playing FPS and not what your character represents.

I don't like an autoattack system where you can just hit attack and go to the bathroom either, but think the solution has to be found somewhere else. So make it more towards specials, or also make it so like there is a bar that fills slowly-quickly depending on the stats of your char and you can increase your damage or hit change by hitting the firebutton when the bar is filled for a certain amount of time. Like the power you pull up your bowstring. But you will automatically fire when the bar is fully filled, but no aiming with a crossair.

"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"

Korpz

I've heard it called "Sandwhich combat", you press auto-attack and then go and make a sandwhich.

A Korpz in all things

EMidget

Bhazir, thats a great idea, the bar needed for hitting an attack button to gain extra damage or status effect is great, I think I will use that or some form of that.

Thanks a bunch guys for all the help, hopefully I can avoid the "sandwhich combat" and the lag involved with non autoattacks. I no longer need replies anymore unless you have something to say about Bhazirs idea like imporvements you may think or ideas similar.

Thanks!

JoeyNipps

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Originally posted by EMidget

In an MMORPG, would you prefer ranged combat to be just like melee combat where you just press attack and it fires, or would you want some type of aiming system for when a player is ready to attack, he goes into a different view (could-be 1st or 3rd view) and must aim at his target?
My idea and questions if there was ranged...
1. Targetted hits, hit in the legs would affect movement speed, arms attack power, head shot would be hard to achieve but it's a critical hit (Can't just do 1 hit kills, imagine a large raid, and BOOM!)
2. Should you have to adjust your angle or power... how would this be done if you did?
3. Alternative to question 2. Should you just need to put a "cross-hair" over your target and press attack?

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Targetting with a bow:  Player should have access to "scope mode" to assist with aiming at range.  Next, player positions x-hair on desired body part of target - gets some sort of feedback from system letting him know which target and body part he has selected (helps rid problems of lag).  He then presses fire - this "locks" in that target's body part (say he aims at the leg of Sam the Haggard).  Now, the computer takes over and does dice rolls based on the PC stats taking into account any factors such as wind, rain, movement, etc. that might influence the shot - rolls the dice to see if the PC hits the targetted body part.  This then incorporates some of the desired aspects of both systems - making it more fun and more realistic game play.  This allows players to choose their target AND the body part (leg hits to slow targets down or to simply stop them for questioning).

If all else in life fails you, buy a vowel.

Valkanisar

alls i can say about aiming your bow in an mmo is its awsome.

check out freeeworldonline.com that is what their system uses for firing a bow. its not easy to do at first as with alot of things in games it takes practice. 1 thing is there is no lag at all to do so which is a bonus. so yes aiming works and is lag free if done right and the guys at freeworld have shown that 8)