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If you're going to copy WoW
Madimorga
Member UncommonPosts: 1,920
If you're going to copy WoW, for pity's sake, stop copying WoW's flavor onto cutrate, scaled down, grind-heavy, puddle-depth content. Come up with your own flavor, then feel free to shamelessly copy what Blizzard did right.
Copy dungeon finder. It was a great idea, and will be a brilliant feature right out of the box for new games.
Copy the Hunter. Your pet classes should allow for the taming of any beast in your game. Players should have to think as hard about allocating pet skills as allocating their own skills, and the pet should have a variety of attacks and abilities according, in part, to its species.
Start off your games with at least 80 levels, even if that means releasing it later and spending more money making it. And then make sure it doesn't take a hundred years to reach max level. Also, in WoW, it often starts a little slow, then picks up as you level. Questing and leveling actually get easier as you go, so you feel you're building momentum all the way to the last few levels, when things slow down again, but hey, you're almost there, so that's okay.
Allow your players to create addons.
Lots of Keybinds and customization options. Mouse movement, including the ability to dispense entirely with keyboard turning. Once you get used to using the mouse to move, it's horribly aggravating to have to go back to using the keyboard.
Expansions. Expand, expand, expand. If your game takes off, keep it growing.
PvP, PvE, and if you're feeling really generous, even roleplaying servers. Unless your game is so heavily pvp based that you can dispense with the pve servers, but that does create a world of problems all its own. Also, make sure to create pvp zones/competitions, ala battlegrounds. Warring factions are a nice touch.
People like variety, and people like choices. These f2p WoW clones I've been sampling are not only copying WoW's flavor, graphics, and sometimes even sound effects, they're compounding their mistake by simplifying and cutting down on the variety and choices WoW provides. So aside from those who simply can't afford to pay a WoW sub, who is going to play these clones, much less visit the cash shop?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Comments
They just want to copy Warcraft's money.
then they should start with some good multiplayer/single player games
then they should build a deep and coherent lore that dates ages
then they should study the market
then they should study the population
then they should invest time and money (generously)
and at that point they won't need to copy WoW and be greately successfull
the one that came close with lore may be age of conan and warhammer but thats all they had behind them...
btw i hate WoW thats because of my own preferences towards gaming, but i fully respect blizzard and their marketing department.
Lol and even the OP doesnt know the main thing that makes WoW appealing
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Ok, what does make it appealing? I've been trying to come up with a single answer to that, but all I know right now is that I miss the list of features I listed when I play games other than WoW. Yet I don't care much for WoW endgame raiding and such. I like to level, but then something goes awry and I lose interest.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Have to have
1) Smooth Melee Gameplay (Melee shouldnt use Queue Strike system)
2) PvP and PvE all in the same game. And both forms in Endgame.
3) Large Scale PvE
4) (If Instanced PvP) then make sure its large scale in some way. at minimum 6times the size of the normal small group.
5)Need Stats System(Never use just basic stats like "Speed", "Armor" stuff like that)
6) Fantasy Gear is a must. (Cooler the gear, the more attached player get to toons)
8) Faction PvP, no FFA, and no Faction Change system in game. This also adds Role playing value to the PvP community.
9) No Harsh DP (no EXP lost, no Full Loot)
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
WAR took Warhammer fantasy RPGs lore and spitted a bit on it, cutting all things that were too creepy or odd. If you like it is that only because you don't know the original lore. WAR is like a cheap Hollywood movie of a great book.
But you are right, originality is the only way to go if you want to make a bestseller game. Just because Wow was a copy of EQ doesn't mean you can do the same thing again, we already seen more than enough of those mechanics.
The future belongs to some other kind of MMO, maybe it will be GW2, maybe CCPs WoDO or maybe something else but EQ mechanics were a brilliant leap forward 12 1/2 years ago but now they are ancient. A game shouldn't feel like you already played it when you get it.
Exactly. WoW's initial success was due to a pre-established playerbase. I'm willing to bet that easily 75% of the launch population consisted of people who played the WarCraft games. While all the games incorporated some bits of lore, WarCraft 3 and it's expansion blew the doors open in terms of fleshing out a game world. WoW was instantly familiar to people from the start. The population explosion was then due to word of mouth ("Hey, you ought to check out this cool game I'm playing. We can play together!") and extremely slick and aggressive marketing. In fact, with regard to marketing, it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard spent more on that than Ultima Online's and Everquest's actual development costs combined.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
then they should build a deep and coherent lore that dates ages
then they should study the market
then they should study the population
then they should invest time and money (generously)
and at that point they won't need to copy WoW and be greately successfull
the one that came close with lore may be age of conan and warhammer but thats all they had behind them...
btw i hate WoW thats because of my own preferences towards gaming, but i fully respect blizzard and their marketing department.
Exactly. WoW's initial success was due to a pre-established playerbase. I'm willing to bet that easily 75% of the launch population consisted of people who played the WarCraft games. While all the games incorporated some bits of lore, WarCraft 3 and it's expansion blew the doors open in terms of fleshing out a game world. WoW was instantly familiar to people from the start. The population explosion was then due to word of mouth ("Hey, you ought to check out this cool game I'm playing. We can play together!") and extremely slick and aggressive marketing. In fact, with regard to marketing, it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard spent more on that than Ultima Online's and Everquest's actual development costs combined.
.
I don't buy the marketing thing. Few read magazines anymore and that's where WoW advertised. No TV. No radio.
.
Word of mouth was the whole marketing campaign.
.
WoW didn't advertise because the game quickly suffered from explosive growth and they didn't want more people showing up.
.
The most advertising for WoW occurred on EQ, DAoC and SWG corporate forums and in game chats. EQ lost half it's subs to WoW in a few months time.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I played and tested so many MMORPG's, till today I have yet to see a game being a WoW-Clone. Never seen one, never seen one that even came close to being a WoW clone, other then MMORPG having basics that can be found in almost any MMORPG ever made.
I feel in a few years people might even start to call EVE a WoW clone, that's how farfetch I see this whole WoW-Clone thing.
Only way I feel people see WoW Clones is due to those people only looking at the basics of this genre, often paired with their own limited playstyle's.
They make you a WOW addict, simple.
'wow has lore, great friends...that has all gone, since ppl reached lvl 60 they were only thinking about epics. 'Who cares about friends? The other guild with sh*theads give me more chance of reaching my desired gear so off I goooo'
"must get more gear, must get more gear, must get more gear...WOOHOOOO epic drop o/........6 months later, must log in because I need more gear.....need more gear....need more gear....."
That, is WOW.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
The two things I see in gaming are more instances and "free to play" games. Since WoW doesn't have these, I don't see how new games can be called WoW clones. Fantansy themes maybe, but not content.
If your going to copy eq at least do it right.
EQ sucks
UO>EQ
EQ was the game all the pussies went to that couldnt hang in UO.
Noone is copying EQ because it sucked, WoW is better.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
noone is copying EQ but everybody is copying WoW?
educate yourself a bit, kid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_relation
Its all wrong anyway. To make a WoW clone:
Much, much money. You need to emit it AAA quality and ready, and you need to be able to fix stuff relatively fast.
Massive marketing offensive, have a big name to exploit, both in the company that creates it as well as the IP used.
Release all over the world, especially also in asia, preferably for all architectures (Windows, consoles, maybe even MacOS)
Low hardware requirements
Many options in gameplay (do you want to play on a RP server or PvE only or Race PvP ... ?)
Avoid any more special kind of gameplay, so dont do something like Eve. Just the most generic stuff.
Comfort level of complexity. Dont add too little and dont add too many classes, races etc.
Prefer carebear difficulty. Make your game playable by anyone. Ideally even preteens should be able to play.
Grab a million or two players on start and just keep growing afterwards.
That should be about all.
Make a fantasy TPS and co-op dungeon running game lobby.
Market it as innovative while ripping off every idea you can get your greedy hands on from other games.
Make the game easy enough for toddlers and the elderly to play while offering the illusion of the game requiring skill for all those between...
...something else...
...profit!
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
As oppose to, lets say, Eve you mean?
"must get money for more gear, must get money for more gear........Log on...set your skill training...do a bit of mining and log off again.
6 months later, must log in because I need to set my skill training .....I need more money for gear....I need more money for gear....I need more money for gear....."
Sound familiar? What you are describing is progression. It's the one thing that keeps people playing MMO's.
Seriously, people need to think long and hard about the misused phrase "WoW Clone" and then read the link in my sig about the top 10 most overused phrases:
"WoW Clone
By far the most over and misused word in the MMO dictionary. In theory, the term WoW Clone refers to a game that so closely resembles World of Warcraft that it could have been grown from its very DNA.
In recent years, this term has been applied to almost every single P2P MMO either in production or released. It is applied to any game, it seems, that makes use of: an RPG style user interface, quests, level progression, guilds, instances, zones, swords, the list goes on.
While World of Warcraft does indeed make use of all of the above mentioned elements and more, the fact of the matter is that they were not the first, and they will not be the last. Many of the elements that are pointed to as evidence of a WoW clone are rather fingerprints of the genre as a whole. Quests, for example, have been an integral part of not just MMOs, but of RPGs from the very beginning, the same goes for concepts like level progression, guilds and the fantasy setting. While Blizzard may have created a formula that improved the way that these elements are presented, World of Warcraft remains just a stepping stone in the overall evolution of the genre.
It is certainly easy to understand a desire, amongst players and developers alike, for change and innovation within the genre, but labeling each and every new MMO release a WoW Clone in the way that some people have been serves to do nothing but reduce the entire genre (both pre and post World of Warcraft) to a single game.
It isn’t necessarily a departure from the conventions of the genre that people are looking for so much as it is a bit of obvious innovation."
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
What gets me is there are people who saying "you're copying WoW or your coping EQ". Yes, there is an absolute difference.
When you diagnose this further you base it off the qualities of each game. Yes, they are similar as in the themepark mold but they are completely two different types of games.
Here it is in simplist form.
If "you're" going to copy EQ you must retain, the challenge, the community aspect, diverse classes, immersion and exploration. No instancing can be an argument because classic did not have such a feature. However, instancing did come in the LDoN expansion. Also, you should include rollover of items with moderate gear dependent gameplay moreso class dependent gameplay.
If "you're" going to copy WoW you must retain, easy accissbilty for everything, simple class design, majority of solo play, no emphsis on community and immersion and exploration is out the window. Also, you should include heavy gear dependent gameplay.
Another way to tell the difference is simply, does the game you are playing feel like...a persistent world or game lobby.
I for one, won't copy wow on any game design philosophies at all. I would much rather focus on the EQ side if one would decide to copy of the two for a themepark game. Simply because EQ's philosophies are more targeted to a true mmorpg rather than WoW's. I hope this can clear somethings up...
There are many MANY totally shit wow clones around now, most from Asia. Where do they get trhe crazy idea that they can make a successul MMO, by copying THE most successul MMO inhistory and making it much shitter?
If one is creating a WOW clone, can't really disagree with your list except for the one about Dungeon finder, as if such a feature was in a game at launch it would have the effect of creating an even crappier, more disjointed player community than WOW currently has and we don't need any more of that nonsense.
For all its benefits to a player in terms of ease of running a dungeon or what have you the downsides to social interaction on a particular server are far more harmful IMO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the people here defending the "Attack of the Clones" are failing to realize the logic. The entire point is that they ARE trying to copy WoW and AREN'T succeeding. Does that mean they are not trying to be clones? No. When you jump into a game and it has the EXACT same: controls, UI layout, "Special Features", Races, Classes, Talent system, pet system, etc AND it has very SIMILAR: Graphics, content, story, and style...That means it is attempting to be a Clone. Just because it is not Identical does not mean they were not attempting to Clone it, it means that they failed in the attempt.
Companies are looking at the results ass-backwards, honestly. If they wanted to be as successful as WoW, they need to release something wholly different. Every aspect of WoW has something that could be better. The -only- things WoW has that make it successful are: Notariety, Playability, and Addiction. It's by Blizzard (A well known and established company), it is easy to pick-up-and-go, and it's extremely hard to put down.
Do these make it a "good" game? Maybe in a marketing and money making sense. But, not when you take a look at it from the outside. What are you really doing when you're in the game? What major things have you "accomplished" while playing? Sadly, the people that read this who are addicted will toss it out the window or respond violently; that's the nature of addiction.
Actually.. there is sense of accomplishment in WoW. They have hard modes, raid bosses, Arena, soon to come out with rated BattleGrounds, etc. I don't play WoW anymore, and I don't think it's the greatest game, but how can you say you can't accomplish anything in this game?
Go back to Vanilla, BC, even Ulduar? There is plenty of accomplishment styled things.
My rebuttal. WoW is not original or unique, nothing in it is.
Blizzard copied everyone elses work in 2005 and they still doing it today. I'd have a tad bit more respect for your post if you actually told all the devs in the mmo genre to stop copying one another because it seems that is what they all do.
Difference being at least those early MMORPGs were innovative and built on eachothers ideas, whereas WoW hasn't created anything unique for itself, and when it steals an idea, it doesn't build on it, it downgrades it and makes it as simple as possible.