Good luck with that...in all seriousness, the training of physical skills - the addition of physical attributes - etc... it being anything more than the RP thing from 2008.
No it was a comment made by the developers, could have been 09 or 08 I forget. I imagine it will be more like gathering info from several npcs in station, maybe following a pirate or spy on foot and undocking and following to another location or deadspace pocket and back again. They already said we wouldnt have combat in stations initially so I would imagine it would be more about gathering intel.
Good luck with that...in all seriousness, the training of physical skills - the addition of physical attributes - etc... it being anything more than the RP thing from 2008.
No it was a comment made by the developers, could have been 09 or 08 I forget. I imagine it will be more like gathering info from several npcs in station, maybe following a pirate or spy on foot and undocking and following to another location or deadspace pocket and back again. They already said we wouldnt have combat in stations initially so I would imagine it would be more about gathering intel.
Hate text, cause not sure if there was a "tone" to what I said that was not intended. It was meant to be more hopeful yet skeptical than sarcastic.
There are already debates on the contradictory nature of the lore in regard to whether leaving the pod would be suicide, and I'm interested to see how CCP handles that. The 2009 teaser basically has the guy admitting that he is no longer one of the pseudo immortals, but he is risking everything to go do something to avoid it being on a "network" somewhere. I just do not buy it. If you are in hi-sec or on a station, folks pretty much know what you are doing. Heck, look at the various missions that exist already where we are chasing down spies and thieves, eh? There is no "getting away with anything" like the 2009 teaser would imply.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Hate text, cause not sure if there was a "tone" to what I said that was not intended. It was meant to be more hopeful yet skeptical than sarcastic.
There are already debates on the contradictory nature of the lore in regard to whether leaving the pod would be suicide, and I'm interested to see how CCP handles that. The 2009 teaser basically has the guy admitting that he is no longer one of the pseudo immortals, but he is risking everything to go do something to avoid it being on a "network" somewhere. I just do not buy it. If you are in hi-sec or on a station, folks pretty much know what you are doing. Heck, look at the various missions that exist already where we are chasing down spies and thieves, eh? There is no "getting away with anything" like the 2009 teaser would imply.
CCP makes cool teasers. Even the developers themselves are crossed on certain lore topics like if we have actual crews on ships and the way the pod functions even though its been written in the novels and chronicles and as far as I know thats official lore of the game, expanded if anything.
I wouldn't read too deeply into any teaser. When the time comes CCP will figure itself out and hand us the info lol.
Until that time comes its fun to speculate on what could be but right now who the hell knows. I read that CCP held back Incarna because they wanted it to be more than just Rp social interaction with a customizable capatins quarters. This could lead people t believe that we may get more in the form of mini games like gambling or more straight up pve content.
In reality we know next to nothing, shit we dont even know if Incarna is truly the next expansion...
They can't do much with PvE as long as its done in the same arena as PvP. The only thing thats annoying about EvE PvE is that it's forced. If you dont do it, you go broke. Its the stealth misconception in EvE. Reality is, nobody forces you to PvP. You put yourself in the position but at some point, someone needs to go kill AI to bring ISK in to the game.
IMO the ONLY thing that needs to be done in EVE to improve PVE is to remove the PVP related restrictions.
I'll give examples:
All level 5 mission agents are in lowsec space. That means you have to risk getting gatecamped, scanned down while your missioning, etc etc etc.
Ssolution: move level 5 agents into hisec.
All 5+ DED Complexes are *gasp* in lowsec or even worse, nosec.
Solution: Make them spawn in both lowsec/nosec AND hisec, but at a higher rate in lowsec/nosec than in hi. That way, its still more lucrative to risk going into lowsec, but you're not prohibited from accessing the content.
WH Sleeper sites, are in wormholes, the lucrative ones are in class 4+ WH's which are again, *gasp* only in lowsec/nosec. Even for the Class 3 and below WH's, you are still under risk of getting scanned down and hosed while you're running the site, which given how hard core sleepers are already, is pretty retarded.
Solution: Create hisec exit WH's in all but class 6's, or maybe 5's and 6's. Also, give sleepers bounties, rather than REQUIRING you loot them.
I've seen too many times a fleet rushed in and either hosed or scared off the site runners close to when they were finished, basically getting free money just by virtue of being a bully gang. There is no risk reward in flying around with 10 of your buddies and preying on solo or duo mission/site runners or ratters, etc.
I understand the fact that CCP wants to promote the idea of risk vs reward, but what they've essentially done to PVE'ers is made it so that you can't do 1/5th the isk/hr as some of the options in nosec/lowsec.
The other thing that needs to go is gate camping. Period. IMO it should only be allowed in nosec, since then you can justify it as defending your territory. Gate camping lowsec is literally an iwin button, there is no risk vs reward, its simply a tool to get off the ganker/griefer crowd.
Honestly why should the players that are unwilling to take some risks and use some preparation and planning get the same level of income from PVE as the players who are willing? I have never been one of the typical "Move level 4s out of highsec" guys but even so I think high sec is profitable enough and getting high sec access to low and nullsec rewards would be wrong and would seriously risk making lowsec worthless.
It may surprise you or you may not believe me but many people do run level 4 missions in low sec and they do make more ISK than you can by doing them in highsec, how do they do it? by using the right ships or by their corp and allies locking down an area and working together and sharing intel on possible threats and working together to deal with those threats. This also applies to level 5 missions and players either go with a friend or two and blitz them or solo them in a Carrier and you can make up to 80,000 loyalty points in less than twenty minutes.
Why should a player in highsec who doesn't want to take risks or bother with teamwork or learn how protect himself make the same income? I can understand the perspective of casual players but many corps will recruit members who only login a couple of times a week but the whole point is not to be a leech and expect all the benefits of cooperation without giving anything back IE loging in and farming away in ecstasy and never helping out, players can be casual but contribute as well.
Also claiming there is no risk running around ganking people doing PVE is crap, by being in low/nullsec they are taking all the same risk of being blobbed, gate or station camped or landing in a gatecamp but guess what? they accept that risk and again use both preparation and teamwork to minimise it.
You're missing the point, the thread was how to improve the PVE aspects of EVE. The best way to improve a PVE experience is to distance it from forced PVP. My suggestions were ways to do this. The point of a PVE game is the risk/reward comes from Either A. Difficulty of enemies you are killing (such as Sleeper sites), or B. The requirement of additional players, i.e. a "group", to finish said encounter/mission/complex/whatever.
Also, apparently you didnt read my post in its entirety b/c i very much alluded to the fact that you should have an incentive for going into lowsec. Right now you have an incentive, but the risk FAR outweighs the potential rewards. Nobody is gonna take their faction fitted 1 billion+ golem out into lowsec or nosec by themselves to try running a level 4 mission in lowsec, yeah, you can get lucky and have a faction mod drop that might sell for 10-100 million, and the bounties are generally 25-50% higher, but the fact that lowsec is basically THE most dangerous place for a solo player to be who can't cloak, and you see why it almost never happens.
Now, you're suggestion about grouping is all fine and dandy, but as soon as you add additional players, you have to start splitting loot/bounties, the reward of a level 4 mission in a lowsec area does NOT average 2x or 3x the reward of simply running the same mission in hisec. Especially with the current nerf on loot drops in level 4's, the only real way for most well equipped players to run lev 4's is to just blast through em for the bounties and to hell with loot/salvage.
Also, i am a member of a corp whose primary focus at this time is wormholes, so i do take the risks and i do reap the rewards, so please don't pigeon hole me. The point of this thread was ways to improve PVE in the game. *IF* that was CCP's goal, which i highly doubt given recent actions, these were some ways i felt would improve the PVE experience.
Edit: The Best example i can give to portray what im talking about is if you take a traditional MMO, lets use Warhammer Online as an example, and then you go and slap all the best or hi level quest givers into the middle of the PVP area. That means that in order to access and do those quests, you have to contend with PVP players constantly harassing you. This is only fun for the pvp players, its not fun for PVE'ers and they simply won't do it, which is why you see it so infrequently in EVE. Most of the people you see running DED Sites in nosec/lowsec and WH sites are corps who are using that to supplement their income to fund their PVP efforts. They're not PVE'ers.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Well they could release a PVE server. They probably never will but if they did I bet it would rake in more customers, the biggest turn off for most is forced pvp in Eve.
And no a PVE server does not mean no PVP. You would still have fighting between corporations etc. It just means no more stuff like ganking in high-security systems, which was probably never an intended "feature" any way. People QQ saying the game's economy wouldn't work, but really it would make very little difference.
and the pvp part... for miners, new players, solo (not all have instantly 10-s of friends) - there is no ethnics in the game, so forcing them to stay in "u get always blown up" areas where ppl blow you up so they could feel cool "MOM i killed a miner!!! with my battleship".
Normally neutral/trading/mining ships would stay neutral unless they belong to a specific corp thats ur enemy (or pirates)- but with all the newbie killer pvp-s only care about killing. + Those ships would have bigger asteroid fields to hide in from bigger ships.
IMO the ONLY thing that needs to be done in EVE to improve PVE is to remove the PVP related restrictions.
I'll give examples:
All level 5 mission agents are in lowsec space. That means you have to risk getting gatecamped, scanned down while your missioning, etc etc etc.
Ssolution: move level 5 agents into hisec.
All 5+ DED Complexes are *gasp* in lowsec or even worse, nosec.
Solution: Make them spawn in both lowsec/nosec AND hisec, but at a higher rate in lowsec/nosec than in hi. That way, its still more lucrative to risk going into lowsec, but you're not prohibited from accessing the content.
WH Sleeper sites, are in wormholes, the lucrative ones are in class 4+ WH's which are again, *gasp* only in lowsec/nosec. Even for the Class 3 and below WH's, you are still under risk of getting scanned down and hosed while you're running the site, which given how hard core sleepers are already, is pretty retarded.
Solution: Create hisec exit WH's in all but class 6's, or maybe 5's and 6's. Also, give sleepers bounties, rather than REQUIRING you loot them.
I've seen too many times a fleet rushed in and either hosed or scared off the site runners close to when they were finished, basically getting free money just by virtue of being a bully gang. There is no risk reward in flying around with 10 of your buddies and preying on solo or duo mission/site runners or ratters, etc.
I understand the fact that CCP wants to promote the idea of risk vs reward, but what they've essentially done to PVE'ers is made it so that you can't do 1/5th the isk/hr as some of the options in nosec/lowsec.
The other thing that needs to go is gate camping. Period. IMO it should only be allowed in nosec, since then you can justify it as defending your territory. Gate camping lowsec is literally an iwin button, there is no risk vs reward, its simply a tool to get off the ganker/griefer crowd.
Honestly why should the players that are unwilling to take some risks and use some preparation and planning get the same level of income from PVE as the players who are willing? I have never been one of the typical "Move level 4s out of highsec" guys but even so I think high sec is profitable enough and getting high sec access to low and nullsec rewards would be wrong and would seriously risk making lowsec worthless.
It may surprise you or you may not believe me but many people do run level 4 missions in low sec and they do make more ISK than you can by doing them in highsec, how do they do it? by using the right ships or by their corp and allies locking down an area and working together and sharing intel on possible threats and working together to deal with those threats. This also applies to level 5 missions and players either go with a friend or two and blitz them or solo them in a Carrier and you can make up to 80,000 loyalty points in less than twenty minutes.
Why should a player in highsec who doesn't want to take risks or bother with teamwork or learn how protect himself make the same income? I can understand the perspective of casual players but many corps will recruit members who only login a couple of times a week but the whole point is not to be a leech and expect all the benefits of cooperation without giving anything back IE loging in and farming away in ecstasy and never helping out, players can be casual but contribute as well.
Also claiming there is no risk running around ganking people doing PVE is crap, by being in low/nullsec they are taking all the same risk of being blobbed, gate or station camped or landing in a gatecamp but guess what? they accept that risk and again use both preparation and teamwork to minimise it.
You're missing the point, the thread was how to improve the PVE aspects of EVE. The best way to improve a PVE experience is to distance it from forced PVP. My suggestions were ways to do this. The point of a PVE game is the risk/reward comes from Either A. Difficulty of enemies you are killing (such as Sleeper sites), or B. The requirement of additional players, i.e. a "group", to finish said encounter/mission/complex/whatever.
Also, apparently you didnt read my post in its entirety b/c i very much alluded to the fact that you should have an incentive for going into lowsec. Right now you have an incentive, but the risk FAR outweighs the potential rewards. Nobody is gonna take their faction fitted 1 billion+ golem out into lowsec or nosec by themselves to try running a level 4 mission in lowsec, yeah, you can get lucky and have a faction mod drop that might sell for 10-100 million, and the bounties are generally 25-50% higher, but the fact that lowsec is basically THE most dangerous place for a solo player to be who can't cloak, and you see why it almost never happens.
Now, you're suggestion about grouping is all fine and dandy, but as soon as you add additional players, you have to start splitting loot/bounties, the reward of a level 4 mission in a lowsec area does NOT average 2x or 3x the reward of simply running the same mission in hisec. Especially with the current nerf on loot drops in level 4's, the only real way for most well equipped players to run lev 4's is to just blast through em for the bounties and to hell with loot/salvage.
Also, i am a member of a corp whose primary focus at this time is wormholes, so i do take the risks and i do reap the rewards, so please don't pigeon hole me. The point of this thread was ways to improve PVE in the game. *IF* that was CCP's goal, which i highly doubt given recent actions, these were some ways i felt would improve the PVE experience.
Edit: The Best example i can give to portray what im talking about is if you take a traditional MMO, lets use Warhammer Online as an example, and then you go and slap all the best or hi level quest givers into the middle of the PVP area. That means that in order to access and do those quests, you have to contend with PVP players constantly harassing you. This is only fun for the pvp players, its not fun for PVE'ers and they simply won't do it, which is why you see it so infrequently in EVE. Most of the people you see running DED Sites in nosec/lowsec and WH sites are corps who are using that to supplement their income to fund their PVP efforts. They're not PVE'ers.
I didn't pigeon hole you into any stereo type at all I just disagreed with your point that people who stay in high sec should not get the low sec and 0.0 level rewards. You still don't get my point about how its possible to run missions in low sec either and say the "rewards are not enough"
As you don't seem to understand I will explain it in the most basic terms, you don't need to "group" to run a mission you simply go to a mission running hub with your corp and allies and then start intel channels and everyone keep on eye on whats going on around them, you know like watching for probes in space and you can get to know the locals and set standings to the guys who are likely to try and gank you in a mission so you can spot them in your systems and easily share the intel increasing everyone's chance of survival.
Many sets of eyes are better than one set of eyes kinda like meerkats, you can set scouting alts around the area your corp missions in and when necessary you can form a gang and try to save anyone unlucky/stupid enough to get caught. This was everyone can run their own level 4s and make more cash than you can in high sec, as for people not using pimped out ships you really have no idea do you? just because you or some other players are to scared or don't know how to protect themselves doesn't mean others are.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
I didn't pigeon hole you into any stereo type at all I just disagreed with your point that people who stay in high sec should not get the low sec and 0.0 level rewards. You still don't get my point about how its possible to run missions in low sec either and say the "rewards are not enough"
As you don't seem to understand I will explain it in the most basic terms, you don't need to "group" to run a mission you simply go to a mission running hub with your corp and allies and then start intel channels and everyone keep on eye on whats going on around them, you know like watching for probes in space and you can get to know the locals and set standings to the guys who are likely to try and gank you in a mission so you can spot them in your systems and easily share the intel increasing everyone's chance of survival.
Many sets of eyes are better than one set of eyes kinda like meerkats, you can set scouting alts around the area your corp missions in and when necessary you can form a gang and try to save anyone unlucky/stupid enough to get caught. This was everyone can run their own level 4s and make more cash than you can in high sec, as for people not using pimped out ships you really have no idea do you? just because you or some other players are to scared or don't know how to protect themselves doesn't mean others are.
Ok, so here we go again, because its now painfully obvious that you either didnt read my posts thoroughly, or just skimmed them and let your preconcieved bias dictate what i said to your brain. Either way, you didnt get the point. What i find painfully amusing is that you contradict yourself within your own sentence. Just because you're not literally flying in space right next to each other, does not mean your not grouping. I'll explain it in basic terms. If you have to have the assistance of your corp/allies, or even other players in the same system to "keep an eye out" for probes, etc, YOU ARE GROUPING. What you basically laid out is the equivalent of a herd of antelope who all graze "by themselves" but due to some of them keeping an eye out for lions, ALL of them become safer as a result of THE HERD (you can read this as "group", if the caps lock didnt key you in on it). Could one of them graze alone in a big ass field? yea, sure, but their chances of lion assrapery go up exponentially. Just like in EVE.
Now, i'll explain it again since you can't seem to understand that the thing EVE PVE'ers hate about EVE is that they are forced to >>> PVP <<< in order to obtain the better missions/sites/complexes, whatever.
What I, and many others have said, is that the risk reward needs to come from the missions themselves. Just like a 1.2 mil isk bounty BS is a lot harder to kill than a 450k isk bounty BS. Just like sleepers having a shit ton of dmg output and actually being semi intelligent by hosing drones and switching targets and the like.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Now, i'll explain it again since you can't seem to understand that the thing EVE PVE'ers hate about EVE is that they are forced to >>> PVP <<< in order to obtain the better missions/sites/complexes, whatever.
What I, and many others have said, is that the risk reward needs to come from the missions themselves. Just like a 1.2 mil isk bounty BS is a lot harder to kill than a 450k isk bounty BS. Just like sleepers having a shit ton of dmg output and actually being semi intelligent by hosing drones and switching targets and the like.
EVE is a PvP game, once again. There are no PVE'ers in EvE. They may not participate in the actual combat aspect of EVE PvP, but PvP combat is not the only PvP in EVE. CCP has never hidden that fact. If any of the PvP aspects of the game bother you, there are other games out there.
EVE was not a PvE game where they added PvP and ruined anything. They've actually gone a long way adding PVE'ish content for people.
Yes, MMORPG PVE'ers hate that they cannot solo the best stuff. Can look at any game and see that. One comes to mind, with alternate means basically to acquire their welfare epics.
To hit up those low-sec and null-sec things, you are pretty much forced to group up or corp up to do so. Oh what a horrible thing, to have to play with others in a MMORPG, am I right?
I play by myself and accept that no, I'm not going to be running those courier missions into low-sec - I know that I'm not going to get the better quality L4 agents or dork around with the L5 stuff. I made the choice to play by myself. I'm not going to blame CCP for that.
I just do not understand that line of thought. It would be like going to play WoW, and then complaining that I coud not make an Andorrian mecha pilot with super powers that lives in a floating castle and has a pet flyiing unicorn that shoots rainbows out its tush...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I didn't pigeon hole you into any stereo type at all I just disagreed with your point that people who stay in high sec should not get the low sec and 0.0 level rewards. You still don't get my point about how its possible to run missions in low sec either and say the "rewards are not enough"
As you don't seem to understand I will explain it in the most basic terms, you don't need to "group" to run a mission you simply go to a mission running hub with your corp and allies and then start intel channels and everyone keep on eye on whats going on around them, you know like watching for probes in space and you can get to know the locals and set standings to the guys who are likely to try and gank you in a mission so you can spot them in your systems and easily share the intel increasing everyone's chance of survival.
Many sets of eyes are better than one set of eyes kinda like meerkats, you can set scouting alts around the area your corp missions in and when necessary you can form a gang and try to save anyone unlucky/stupid enough to get caught. This was everyone can run their own level 4s and make more cash than you can in high sec, as for people not using pimped out ships you really have no idea do you? just because you or some other players are to scared or don't know how to protect themselves doesn't mean others are.
Ok, so here we go again, because its now painfully obvious that you either didnt read my posts thoroughly, or just skimmed them and let your preconcieved bias dictate what i said to your brain. Either way, you didnt get the point. What i find painfully amusing is that you contradict yourself within your own sentence. Just because you're not literally flying in space right next to each other, does not mean your not grouping. I'll explain it in basic terms. If you have to have the assistance of your corp/allies, or even other players in the same system to "keep an eye out" for probes, etc, YOU ARE GROUPING. What you basically laid out is the equivalent of a herd of antelope who all graze "by themselves" but due to some of them keeping an eye out for lions, ALL of them become safer as a result of THE HERD (you can read this as "group", if the caps lock didnt key you in on it). Could one of them graze alone in a big ass field? yea, sure, but their chances of lion assrapery go up exponentially. Just like in EVE.
Now, i'll explain it again since you can't seem to understand that the thing EVE PVE'ers hate about EVE is that they are forced to >>> PVP <<< in order to obtain the better missions/sites/complexes, whatever.
What I, and many others have said, is that the risk reward needs to come from the missions themselves. Just like a 1.2 mil isk bounty BS is a lot harder to kill than a 450k isk bounty BS. Just like sleepers having a shit ton of dmg output and actually being semi intelligent by hosing drones and switching targets and the like.
You said that working together as a group is not worth it because you have to share the rewards my reubbtle was that you dont need to actually share each individual pvp activity to effectivley work together just cooperate together to make sure you and your allies can spot and deal with threats more effectivley.
Also you claimed that my argument is invalid because it doesnt not really cover the thread topic about improving PVE, well sorry but on that basis your opinion is moot as well becaue the spirit of the topic is how to improve PVE mechanics like how the missions or deadspaces work, AI, rewards and all the stuff thats pretty bad and does need to be improved but your argument is basically "big scary piwates gank PVEers make it so people can enjoy the same rewards that the people willing to take risks get"
That does not improve PVE it just improves the income for people who do not want to work together or who are to scared or to stupid leave high sec. People who want to PVE without being affected by the actions of others should really play another game, I know that sounds harsh but it is what it is and although some people like this believe they have the right to be left alone in a game like EVE are selfish because everything they do effects others.
The loot the sell increases supply affecting the value of loot others have, the LP they earn puts other LP store items on the market, the ships they buy or sell compete with other ships people buy or sell, any POS they put up is a moon another player could have used.
You dont want PVP forced on PVEers? dont force marketing and economic activity on the PVPers, dont devalue thier items, dont compete for the resources. If your suggestions where carried out people in high sec could get the high end items or flood the market with LP store items after getting a huge amount of LP from high sec level 5 missions.
Just explain to me why people who wont take risks, wont work together or wont leave high sec should have the right to compete for the resources of the people who do how is that fair at all?
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
just improve the income for people who do not want to work together or who are to scared or to stupid leave high sec.
Well, that would be a disaster.
IMO the PVE is currently based of the UI really. Once you get down to the ship level and see what's actually there and happening, it's rather simplistic and boring. I think improved PVE would be based less on what's going on generally, and more about whats physically present. Better, more complex mission areas with more story and lore mixed in.
For example, a gang of cruisers comes at you from the left and the screen zooms in to see them heading for you, and a text pops up to tell the story of why they are there. This would all be occurring in a setting of something more than brothels, satellites, and stick figure asteroid colonies (much more).
Make the PVE elements more like most PVE based games, just without the instances. You only have to look at the games PVE to see it's not a PVE based game, and considering the lag it could cause that may be a good thing.
Comments
No it was a comment made by the developers, could have been 09 or 08 I forget. I imagine it will be more like gathering info from several npcs in station, maybe following a pirate or spy on foot and undocking and following to another location or deadspace pocket and back again. They already said we wouldnt have combat in stations initially so I would imagine it would be more about gathering intel.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Hate text, cause not sure if there was a "tone" to what I said that was not intended. It was meant to be more hopeful yet skeptical than sarcastic.
There are already debates on the contradictory nature of the lore in regard to whether leaving the pod would be suicide, and I'm interested to see how CCP handles that. The 2009 teaser basically has the guy admitting that he is no longer one of the pseudo immortals, but he is risking everything to go do something to avoid it being on a "network" somewhere. I just do not buy it. If you are in hi-sec or on a station, folks pretty much know what you are doing. Heck, look at the various missions that exist already where we are chasing down spies and thieves, eh? There is no "getting away with anything" like the 2009 teaser would imply.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
CCP makes cool teasers. Even the developers themselves are crossed on certain lore topics like if we have actual crews on ships and the way the pod functions even though its been written in the novels and chronicles and as far as I know thats official lore of the game, expanded if anything.
I wouldn't read too deeply into any teaser. When the time comes CCP will figure itself out and hand us the info lol.
Until that time comes its fun to speculate on what could be but right now who the hell knows. I read that CCP held back Incarna because they wanted it to be more than just Rp social interaction with a customizable capatins quarters. This could lead people t believe that we may get more in the form of mini games like gambling or more straight up pve content.
In reality we know next to nothing, shit we dont even know if Incarna is truly the next expansion...
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
They can't do much with PvE as long as its done in the same arena as PvP. The only thing thats annoying about EvE PvE is that it's forced. If you dont do it, you go broke. Its the stealth misconception in EvE. Reality is, nobody forces you to PvP. You put yourself in the position but at some point, someone needs to go kill AI to bring ISK in to the game.
You're missing the point, the thread was how to improve the PVE aspects of EVE. The best way to improve a PVE experience is to distance it from forced PVP. My suggestions were ways to do this. The point of a PVE game is the risk/reward comes from Either A. Difficulty of enemies you are killing (such as Sleeper sites), or B. The requirement of additional players, i.e. a "group", to finish said encounter/mission/complex/whatever.
Also, apparently you didnt read my post in its entirety b/c i very much alluded to the fact that you should have an incentive for going into lowsec. Right now you have an incentive, but the risk FAR outweighs the potential rewards. Nobody is gonna take their faction fitted 1 billion+ golem out into lowsec or nosec by themselves to try running a level 4 mission in lowsec, yeah, you can get lucky and have a faction mod drop that might sell for 10-100 million, and the bounties are generally 25-50% higher, but the fact that lowsec is basically THE most dangerous place for a solo player to be who can't cloak, and you see why it almost never happens.
Now, you're suggestion about grouping is all fine and dandy, but as soon as you add additional players, you have to start splitting loot/bounties, the reward of a level 4 mission in a lowsec area does NOT average 2x or 3x the reward of simply running the same mission in hisec. Especially with the current nerf on loot drops in level 4's, the only real way for most well equipped players to run lev 4's is to just blast through em for the bounties and to hell with loot/salvage.
Also, i am a member of a corp whose primary focus at this time is wormholes, so i do take the risks and i do reap the rewards, so please don't pigeon hole me. The point of this thread was ways to improve PVE in the game. *IF* that was CCP's goal, which i highly doubt given recent actions, these were some ways i felt would improve the PVE experience.
Edit: The Best example i can give to portray what im talking about is if you take a traditional MMO, lets use Warhammer Online as an example, and then you go and slap all the best or hi level quest givers into the middle of the PVP area. That means that in order to access and do those quests, you have to contend with PVP players constantly harassing you. This is only fun for the pvp players, its not fun for PVE'ers and they simply won't do it, which is why you see it so infrequently in EVE. Most of the people you see running DED Sites in nosec/lowsec and WH sites are corps who are using that to supplement their income to fund their PVP efforts. They're not PVE'ers.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Well they could release a PVE server. They probably never will but if they did I bet it would rake in more customers, the biggest turn off for most is forced pvp in Eve.
And no a PVE server does not mean no PVP. You would still have fighting between corporations etc. It just means no more stuff like ganking in high-security systems, which was probably never an intended "feature" any way. People QQ saying the game's economy wouldn't work, but really it would make very little difference.
and the pvp part... for miners, new players, solo (not all have instantly 10-s of friends) - there is no ethnics in the game, so forcing them to stay in "u get always blown up" areas where ppl blow you up so they could feel cool "MOM i killed a miner!!! with my battleship".
Normally neutral/trading/mining ships would stay neutral unless they belong to a specific corp thats ur enemy (or pirates)- but with all the newbie killer pvp-s only care about killing. + Those ships would have bigger asteroid fields to hide in from bigger ships.
I didn't pigeon hole you into any stereo type at all I just disagreed with your point that people who stay in high sec should not get the low sec and 0.0 level rewards. You still don't get my point about how its possible to run missions in low sec either and say the "rewards are not enough"
As you don't seem to understand I will explain it in the most basic terms, you don't need to "group" to run a mission you simply go to a mission running hub with your corp and allies and then start intel channels and everyone keep on eye on whats going on around them, you know like watching for probes in space and you can get to know the locals and set standings to the guys who are likely to try and gank you in a mission so you can spot them in your systems and easily share the intel increasing everyone's chance of survival.
Many sets of eyes are better than one set of eyes kinda like meerkats, you can set scouting alts around the area your corp missions in and when necessary you can form a gang and try to save anyone unlucky/stupid enough to get caught. This was everyone can run their own level 4s and make more cash than you can in high sec, as for people not using pimped out ships you really have no idea do you? just because you or some other players are to scared or don't know how to protect themselves doesn't mean others are.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Ok, so here we go again, because its now painfully obvious that you either didnt read my posts thoroughly, or just skimmed them and let your preconcieved bias dictate what i said to your brain. Either way, you didnt get the point. What i find painfully amusing is that you contradict yourself within your own sentence. Just because you're not literally flying in space right next to each other, does not mean your not grouping. I'll explain it in basic terms. If you have to have the assistance of your corp/allies, or even other players in the same system to "keep an eye out" for probes, etc, YOU ARE GROUPING. What you basically laid out is the equivalent of a herd of antelope who all graze "by themselves" but due to some of them keeping an eye out for lions, ALL of them become safer as a result of THE HERD (you can read this as "group", if the caps lock didnt key you in on it). Could one of them graze alone in a big ass field? yea, sure, but their chances of lion assrapery go up exponentially. Just like in EVE.
Now, i'll explain it again since you can't seem to understand that the thing EVE PVE'ers hate about EVE is that they are forced to >>> PVP <<< in order to obtain the better missions/sites/complexes, whatever.
What I, and many others have said, is that the risk reward needs to come from the missions themselves. Just like a 1.2 mil isk bounty BS is a lot harder to kill than a 450k isk bounty BS. Just like sleepers having a shit ton of dmg output and actually being semi intelligent by hosing drones and switching targets and the like.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
EVE is a PvP game, once again. There are no PVE'ers in EvE. They may not participate in the actual combat aspect of EVE PvP, but PvP combat is not the only PvP in EVE. CCP has never hidden that fact. If any of the PvP aspects of the game bother you, there are other games out there.
EVE was not a PvE game where they added PvP and ruined anything. They've actually gone a long way adding PVE'ish content for people.
Yes, MMORPG PVE'ers hate that they cannot solo the best stuff. Can look at any game and see that. One comes to mind, with alternate means basically to acquire their welfare epics.
To hit up those low-sec and null-sec things, you are pretty much forced to group up or corp up to do so. Oh what a horrible thing, to have to play with others in a MMORPG, am I right?
I play by myself and accept that no, I'm not going to be running those courier missions into low-sec - I know that I'm not going to get the better quality L4 agents or dork around with the L5 stuff. I made the choice to play by myself. I'm not going to blame CCP for that.
I just do not understand that line of thought. It would be like going to play WoW, and then complaining that I coud not make an Andorrian mecha pilot with super powers that lives in a floating castle and has a pet flyiing unicorn that shoots rainbows out its tush...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
You said that working together as a group is not worth it because you have to share the rewards my reubbtle was that you dont need to actually share each individual pvp activity to effectivley work together just cooperate together to make sure you and your allies can spot and deal with threats more effectivley.
Also you claimed that my argument is invalid because it doesnt not really cover the thread topic about improving PVE, well sorry but on that basis your opinion is moot as well becaue the spirit of the topic is how to improve PVE mechanics like how the missions or deadspaces work, AI, rewards and all the stuff thats pretty bad and does need to be improved but your argument is basically "big scary piwates gank PVEers make it so people can enjoy the same rewards that the people willing to take risks get"
That does not improve PVE it just improves the income for people who do not want to work together or who are to scared or to stupid leave high sec. People who want to PVE without being affected by the actions of others should really play another game, I know that sounds harsh but it is what it is and although some people like this believe they have the right to be left alone in a game like EVE are selfish because everything they do effects others.
The loot the sell increases supply affecting the value of loot others have, the LP they earn puts other LP store items on the market, the ships they buy or sell compete with other ships people buy or sell, any POS they put up is a moon another player could have used.
You dont want PVP forced on PVEers? dont force marketing and economic activity on the PVPers, dont devalue thier items, dont compete for the resources. If your suggestions where carried out people in high sec could get the high end items or flood the market with LP store items after getting a huge amount of LP from high sec level 5 missions.
Just explain to me why people who wont take risks, wont work together or wont leave high sec should have the right to compete for the resources of the people who do how is that fair at all?
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Well, that would be a disaster.
IMO the PVE is currently based of the UI really. Once you get down to the ship level and see what's actually there and happening, it's rather simplistic and boring. I think improved PVE would be based less on what's going on generally, and more about whats physically present. Better, more complex mission areas with more story and lore mixed in.
For example, a gang of cruisers comes at you from the left and the screen zooms in to see them heading for you, and a text pops up to tell the story of why they are there. This would all be occurring in a setting of something more than brothels, satellites, and stick figure asteroid colonies (much more).
Make the PVE elements more like most PVE based games, just without the instances. You only have to look at the games PVE to see it's not a PVE based game, and considering the lag it could cause that may be a good thing.