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The problem of statloss in MO....
HerculesSAS
Member Posts: 1,272
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/47260-wtf.html
Explained above in simple terms. People are starting this now -- the griefing begins... and they are going to try to flag people and turn them murderers.
This is exactly what happened in UO with AOE spells, people would use them as an opportunity to flag others, and lots of other tricks were used to get the same thing to happen -- like talking in grey text, and lots of other little things.
Statloss is a great system, but for a game like MO that has swing arcs that anybody can jump in front of, it's not going to be pretty to see the griefing happen. On a related note, my guildies have been doing this for a long while now, and it seems that the fun is catching on. It won't stop, either because it's legitimate gameplay.
Comments
Flagging system creates opportunities to take advantage of the flag system.
See can flipping in EVE. Or "jumping in front of swings" in DF. OP, what game do you play that either doesn't have a flagging system, or doesn't have the exploits related to it? I ask, because I might like to play.
[Mod Edit]
So a system implemented in an MMORPG creates the opportunity for people to exploit said system... how profound!?
Welcome to online gaming.
Seriously, flagging systems are exploited in almost every FFA PvP game.
[Mod Edit]
How does this relate to statloss as a problem? Nowhere in the forum post quoted are players complaining about statloss.
Instead, they are complaining about the exploit of players jumping in front of others to flag them - an exploit that, for anyone who's ever actually played it knows, very rarely results in a murdercount on the victim, let alone the 5 required to make them a murderer and subject to statloss (unless they HAVE already been murdering other players).
So, why the statloss strawman argument?
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
This has happened to me exactly one time, and that was during beta. I changed to blocking and they gave up out of boredom
Even without stat loss, the person that gets flagged with a murder count potentially faces loss of access to blue cities, and loss of access to their bank account. Are you advocating that they take out the flagging system altogether?
After you force someone to go grey, there are basically two ways to handle things going forward:
1) Use the opportunity to kill them without getting a murder count. If that is your intent, you want to go out with a minimum of good equipment. By doing so you take the risk that you may lose all of it (if a real murderer comes along or if the person being forced to go grey decides that they may as well kill you). In the end all you get out of it is a few pelts that you could have gotten faster if you were killing things by yourself, or if you actually went red. In the end the person forced to go grey is no worse off than if you killed them in a more straightforward way (i,e, murderer)
2) Use the opportunity to get yourself killed and give them a murder count. If that is your intent, you want to go out with a minimum of equipment. In the end you get nothing out of it and the person forced to go grey gets 1/5 of a murder flag (which doesn't mean a whole lot if they don't normally kill people)
To get the opportunity to do either of these you have to stand around waiting for an opportunity, so it really doesn't sound like a style of game play that people will stick with for any length of time.
P.S. This argument was so much more interesting 10-11 months ago when the person making your argument might actually be interested in playing MO.
People here have complained about statloss being stupid. The OP then points to an issue that can lead to statloss. Where is the problem with what the OP said again...?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I have to assume to OP is one of those 'ganker' type people. His post is based on the premise that a majority of MO's pvp will be 1 on 1 encounters fairly close to guarded cities, where other people will have the opportunity to jump in and flag the ganker as a murderer....
In that case, the stat loss isn't a problem, it is working as intended. It is there to prevent worthless pathetic people with no lives from ruining the enjoyment of the game from people who want a good sandbox MMO. Because in things like war seiges etc, no stat loss is incurred.. So this only applies to gankers.. People to PK out of game context.. AKA murderers, or people who in our REAL society we either lock up for life or execute because, well.. they suck..
So my advice is..
Quit being a lamer..
OR
Don't suck.. cause you only lose stats in MO if you die while flagged as a murderer... guess an L2P is in order here...
or in developer speak (since I am a developer)...
Working as Intended.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
When SV implements ways for people to get their frustration out, this will become less of an issue. There are no guild wars and I think that will entertain most of the greifers when it's added. It will still happen, but I think it will happen far less often.
@ nytakito :
one way to handle any one who tries to force you to go grey is [alt]. pressing switches to thrusting, which makes it a whole lot harder for people to get you grey flagged.
[Mod Edit]
1.) Block or run, it's always important to have one of these skills high
2.) If they want you to kill them just don't and run again...
3.) If you do end up killing them for a murder count that's only 1 murder count, it's another 4 more until any sort of statloss can come into play.
If you'll note, most of the people pointing out problems with what the OP said also felt that stat loss should stay as is. For a player to get flagged as a murderer in the way described by the OP, they would have to have 5 separate occasions of someone jumping onto their sword. Personally, I find it very unlikely that anyone plans to follow a play-style of impaling themselves on people swords at random for no reward.
Really? Because I find that possibility quite likely, and it's exactly what happened in UO with the AOE spells when they first started flagging.
After that, nobody used the spells any more because of the problems it caused pushing murder counts on people. Some people do play PvP games to grief others.
Umm, I have yet to get a murdercount that I didn't have coming. One or two people have jumped in front my my swing, but they do that to either guardwhack you if/when you enter the guarded zone again (there's no mobs to kill in town, so they gotta do this outside), or to kill you without penalty (it didn't work either time because I've been in game for more than a week so I know what to do in those situations).
I AM glad your guildies are having fun playing Mortal though.
They are having fun griefing people, so I guess that's good for something.
And it appears that SV is trying to put mechanics in place to stamp out (or at least limit) such anti-social and unsportsmanlike behavior.
Working as designed it appears to me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, their hard-earned money is probably paying for the server's 24/7 support team, so tell them I said thanks.
What guild is it, anyway?
They don't have a guild ingame. And they aren't subbing so my guess is that the money they paid a year ago has already been used up. They are just forcing people to quit which is entertaining in its own way. They've seen a bunch of rage quitters after they griefed the hell out of them, and they enjoy it so whatever.
Heck, our guild's tagline is "Ruining the gaming experience for others since 1996", so go figure
Hmm, every time I mention your guild the reference disappears... At any rate, can I ask the name of the guild? Surely they have one, if they have a tagline. This is not a personal question, I just wanna get to know who movers and shakers of MO are.
They were referenced repeatedly by you, and their focus is also the focus of this thread, so I assume talking about them is acceptable? If not, I would appreciate some clarification of the rules.
Sinners Among Saints.
Color me confused http://www.sinnersamongsaints.org/ It's got your name all over it, but seems to have nothing whatsoever to do with a guild. Of course, if Sean Patrick Flanery is a member it's all good. In nomine patri, et fili, et spiritu sancte.
Thank you, I will use this information to do what needs to be done.. should they sub again.
While looking at the Mortal online guild list under PVP guilds http://fmshop.mmoguildsites.com/forums/73433 it looks like the guild site I found with a google search is in fact the proper one (and the one that the guild is putting on display, implying their consent that it be public knowledge, forum mods)
Hercules' guild is only the issue insofar as they provide an example of the behavior that Hercules cites in the OP. While they certainly show that people can do it, they also show that it is the behavior of people who have no intention of continuing their subscription.