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FFA PvP. It's the only thing left to discuss
Ihmotepp
Member Posts: 14,495
Group vs Solo discussion? It's in the ghetto of the stickied thread.
F2P vs P2P? It's also in the ghetto.
The only thing left is FFA PvP.
Everything else is a vanilla discussion, that won't offend anyone or generate heated debate.
Comments
I prefer faction or species-based PvP. FFA is pretty much just deathmatch, which is fun, but not in an MMORPG in my opinion. I like having other players on my side even if they are not in my group. Even having the illusion of teamates, such as in a Shooter game is more fun for me the majority of the time. Not saying I don't like a good deathmatch once in awhile though.
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FFA PvP in an RPG needs to be heavily consequenced, otherwise it destroys immersion. If immersion is not the goal, well, then it's not an RPG. Nothing wrong with that, just appeals to a different audience.
It's realistic that it's possibly to kill "anyone, anywhere", it's not realistic that people are constantly killing "everyone, everywhere". So if you allow anyone, anywhere to be killed, you need to put other mechanics into place in order to achieve the atmosphere of it not constantly happening. Example - EVE Hi-Sec space: you can kill anyone, anywhere, but if you kill anyone in civilized space, your ship will get blown up by the cops, so the result is that despite you having guns and being able to shoot down whoever you want, most people don't do that (some do for high value shipments or out of spite and lose their ships, that's reality and that's a choice they make - perfect!)
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Eve got a perfect balance when it comes to FFA pvp in modern mmo, the original model of FFA pvp (old diku muds, ie. duris) sadly doesn't work with modern mentality of kids who sit there 24/7 and kill newbies.
And this is the only real pvp, anything else is a joke.
Half the people in Eve never pvp at all.
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That doesn't sound very FFA to me.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
FFA PvP will always remain exclusive to a niche market at best, because the sad truth about FFA PvP is that it is anything but freedom to the majority of players. By giving players the freedom to kill any other player without any inherent consequence, it is also giving the power for players to significantly restrict the freedom of other players through their actions. The majority of moderate MMO gamers have long since realized this, which is why they would rather play in "carebear land" as the "hardcore" PvPers have dubbed anything that doesn't fit their personally preferred playstyle.
And the consequences part is coming from players, not game mechanics. Most of you may not remember "the old muds" which were truly FFA and for most time you were safe to travel around, and if you get killed - it was for a reason. If you would just go and kill everyone around, very fast whole mud would hunt you and make your life miserable.
Eve has multiple rulesets within its one server.
it offers players a choice in the level of risk their version of Eve has.
Its a wonderful system and gives everyone the freedom to play the way they want without feeling forced into a certain type of gameplay.
Go Play DF or MO if you don't understand what I mean.
If you aren't a murder in those games you are extremely limited in the way you cna play in your preferd style.
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it offers players a choice in the level of risk their version of Eve has.
Its a wonderful system and gives everyone the freedom to play the way they want without feeling forced into a certain type of gameplay.
Go Play DF or MO if you don't understand what I mean.
If you aren't a murder in those games you are extremely limited in the way you cna play in your preferd style.
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You can say the same thing about WoW. You pick how much PvP risk you want in WoW. Whether it's joining a WoW PvP server going to Arenas, BGs, world pvp, etc.
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Or you can abstain from pvp altogether.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
It's nice to think that if you get attacked or killed in a FFA game it's because you said or did something wrong, or were a lucrative target. That's not the case in most games however. There are many cases where you be killed, and corpse camped, for no other reason than being online, and being an easy lowbie target. The "get some friends" argument is very situtational as well, as the grifer can technically do the same, and they and/or their friends may be more powerful so it's still moot.
In a PvE environment, sure, you can't get revenge on a griefer. Then again, grifers have less avenues to grief you. Additionally, good versions of these games tend to have Game Masters that will intervene and reprimand players that are harassing others and generally causing problems. In a FFA PvP game however, such harassment is considered 'part of the game' and players are completely free to harass others.
The sad truth of it is, that there is a large group of gamers that will act extremely poorly when there is no consequence for doing so. These people need to have consequences held over them at all times, because whenever they think they can get away with doing something wrong, they will. That is why I personally avoid these types of games now, because I've spent several years in games having to deal with this type of player. There is absolutely no benefit for me to play such a game over a game that simply prevents much of their nonsense either via the game mechanics, or by support staff that will punish them for behaving like jerks.
Is that true?
I thought it was possible to be attacked but that there were npc guards that would then kill the attacker.
I've also read that some people will set up a suicide run, blow up the other player, get killed by the guards and then log in with an alt to loot.
I'm not sure this is true or not just seeking clarity.
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That used to happen all of the time in UO before they added a PvE ruleset area.
Player A would wait around naked at a bank, with just enough reagents to cast 2 spells. They would wait for what was usually a crafting character to wander by and do their banking. They would cast two spells that would land at the exact same time, just enough to kill most crafter characters, so even if the guards were called and it killed the attacker, the target would still be dead.
The end result? The attacker would die, but not lost anything other than a pittance of reagents for the spells, and the target would be dead and then dry looted by either a nearby friend, or the attacker quickly logging over to another character to do so.
All of this would take place in the middle of a city, that was supposed to be safe.
I thought it was possible to be attacked but that there were npc guards that would then kill the attacker.
I've also read that some people will set up a suicide run, blow up the other player, get killed by the guards and then log in with an alt to loot.
I'm not sure this is true or not just seeking clarity.
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Yeah, you can attack anyone anywhere. High security space has severe penalties for attacking people so its very rare that people are attacked.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
And the consequences part is coming from players, not game mechanics. Most of you may not remember "the old muds" which were truly FFA and for most time you were safe to travel around, and if you get killed - it was for a reason. If you would just go and kill everyone around, very fast whole mud would hunt you and make your life miserable.
It's nice to think that if you get attacked or killed in a FFA game it's because you said or did something wrong, or were a lucrative target. That's not the case in most games however. There are many cases where you be killed, and corpse camped, for no other reason than being online, and being an easy lowbie target. The "get some friends" argument is very situtational as well, as the grifer can technically do the same, and they and/or their friends may be more powerful so it's still moot.
In a PvE environment, sure, you can't get revenge on a griefer. Then again, grifers have less avenues to grief you. Additionally, good versions of these games tend to have Game Masters that will intervene and reprimand players that are harassing others and generally causing problems. In a FFA PvP game however, such harassment is considered 'part of the game' and players are completely free to harass others.
The sad truth of it is, that there is a large group of gamers that will act extremely poorly when there is no consequence for doing so. These people need to have consequences held over them at all times, because whenever they think they can get away with doing something wrong, they will. That is why I personally avoid these types of games now, because I've spent several years in games having to deal with this type of player. There is absolutely no benefit for me to play such a game over a game that simply prevents much of their nonsense either via the game mechanics, or by support staff that will punish them for behaving like jerks.
That's what i wrote in my earlier post, that it doesn't fit modern MMOs because of no life shitheads
And ganking in hi-sec (the safer space, not safe one) is actually VERY common, not rare.
Unless they try to scam you (noobs) into opening a can or shooting first, which I've seen happen way too often.
Exactly, it has severe penalties. Game mechanic imposed penalites to prevent things from getting out of hand.
Whether FFA PvPers want to believe it or not, there are a large group of individuals who will behave at the worst if there are no consequences for doing so. It's really very sad how dishonorable some people are when they can get away with it.
Here, i'll stir up the pot.
I've been saying for along time that WoW PVP should be FFA. Imagine getting into an Arena, completely random(to avoid Ventrilo teams...) and have 4-8 guys go at it and give points, money, a shiny whatever only to the winner. Make it gear level matched so you have either noobs playing VS noob VS experience player who opt for no armor or little stuff or you'll have those EPICOMGWTFBBQ!!!ONE!!11!! tooned out wars between 2 warriors of mages.
Or apply that to any other MMO. I think it would be awesome.
Better watch your back, or you'll end up with a battle axe sticking through your chest. That's how a MMO should be played.
I don't think EVE is FFA PvP. I think EVE is a subcategory of PvP, "PvP with consequences".
Is it really FFA, if in some places I kill you and it equals suicide, AND that suicide causes me to lose gear (in EVE a ship)?
That's not really FFA like DF, where I can kill you literally ANYWHERE and the same consequences apply no matter where we are.
It's more FFA because in low/null-sec, you can attack anyone. Just because there are known, accepted areas for PvP doesn't mean that PvP ceases to be FFA.
You could have a zone with RvR and gear loss upon death. Would that not also be "PvP with consequences"? But it certainly wouldn't be FFA because you wouldn't be able to attack your realmmates.
Darkfall is global FFA. EVE is technically global as well (the option to attack is always there), but if you kill in hi-sec, yes, it's suicide (unless you use your brain and cross your fingers and try to bait some noobs as described above, which some people do). If someone was going to kill me in a "safe zone," I'd rather they use their brains and put some effort into it. Or maybe they just hope I'm naïve, either one.
The 'Free' part of Free for All means no restrictions, imo.
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WoW is about as free as Eve. WoW has full pvp zones with small safe zones on pvp servers. The main difference between Eve and WoW is that you can't attack the same faction in WoW and that's a small difference.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Doesn't work any more. There are too many people playing. No one remembers troublemakers enough to hunt them down.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Yea, I'm gonna say there's a diffence between I can kill you anywhere any time, and I can kill you anywhere with no consequences, but some places that means it's suicide and I lose gear.
First one is FFA, second one is something less than FFA. Granted it's MORE than RvR, but not much.
Yes both games give you options. I don't understand what your getting at by bringing up WoW? WoW has no death penalty and lacks meaningful world pvp. Sure it may have pvp servers but what reason does someone have to pvp other than pissing someone off while their doing a quest?
WoW has options but its far from a ffapvp game because you actually need a reason to pvp in games like that Eve has territorial conquest so does darkfall. What does WoW have? nadda.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
+1 Rockgod
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Your down playing what Eve is and what it offers people. to say its a step up from Rvr is an insult. Eve offers true freedom. Gives people the option to choose the level of risk. Someone can easily be killed in empire space with the attacker losing very little after you factor in insurance.
You are also forgetting mechanics like Wardecs and FW that make people ffa targets in empire. There are people that play in Empire that have gone years without being free of a wardec. to them empire is as harsh as 0.0 without the bubble camps.
Eve may have rules but its still very much FFApvp.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP