TOR's conversation system rebuilt to be like Mass Effect

DarthViktor

BioWare lead designer and storywriter Daniel Erickson drops a few interesting nuggets about Star Wars: The Old Republic's well-publicized voice system. In an interview with CVG, he gives credit to Mass Effect, BioWare's celebrated single-player RPG, for inspiring a complete change in The Old Republic's voiceover content.



"Originally the game was built far more like Dragon Age as far as [the] Conversation System went," he said. "Our player characters were not going to be voiced because it's a massively insane expenditure and hugely complicated to do. You have to cast 16 of the best actors ever and then hold them for eternity," Erickson says.



He goes on to illustrate how the original Mass Effect caused the TOR team to adjust their thinking, as it debuted very early in the latter's development cycle. You can read the full article at CVG.

 

Link: http://www.massively.com/2010/06/28/tors-conversation-system-rebuilt-to-be-like-mass-effect/

Unknown

I saw in e3 videos player characters talking so I guess that's good.  I hated dragon age's and kotors and jade empires silent protagonist's. 

arieste

So your character has a voice talking to NPC, but no voice (or a totally different voice) when talking to PCs.  How is this immersive?  

Having played a couple of games that touted "voiced NPCs" as a huge deal (eq2 even had Count Dooku himself - Christopher Lee!), I have to say that this is a very minor thing.  It's cool in a single-player game like ME (and ME is one of the very few that did it well, in most i'm done reading before they finish talking and just click through).

I think innovation would be a voice recognition system that allowed you to actually TALK (voice) to NPCs.  Though again, so much communication in these games happens through text, there is really no benefit to mixing it up until you can get rid of text altogether.  

Swanea

Gotta say, if everything but your character was going to have a voice, <.<.

 

Was one of the very worst things.  I think one or two of them, your character didn't even make battle sounds.

ashfallen

After playing the last few Bioware games, I can see they have been testing ideas for an MMO for a while now.  Look at Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 then compare the ideas they are showing in TOR so much is simular.  I personally think these two games have been a staging ground

MMO.Maverick

One hell of a staging ground   : I find ME2 to be one of the more immersive and smooth playable RPG's around.

 

Originally posted by arieste

So your character has a voice talking to NPC, but no voice (or a totally different voice) when talking to PCs.  How is this immersive? 

Heh, farfetched much?

Tastes will always differ, but I found the games where the storylines where enacted via voices and cutscenes with the protagonists talking to, like ME2, Metal Gear Solid 4, even Warcraft 3 and the Final Fantasy series, generally more immersive than the games where it is only shown in text, no voices or (interactive) cutscenes.

arieste

Originally posted by cyphers

One hell of a staging ground   : I find ME2 to be one of the more immersive and smooth playable RPG's around.

 

Originally posted by arieste

So your character has a voice talking to NPC, but no voice (or a totally different voice) when talking to PCs.  How is this immersive? 

Heh, farfetched much?

Tastes will always differ, but I found the games where the storylines where enacted via voices and cutscenes with the protagonists talking to, like ME2, Metal Gear Solid 4, even Warcraft 3 and the Final Fantasy series, generally more immersive than the games where it is only shown in text, no voices or (interactive) cutscenes.

Those were all single-player games.   ME was great.  In the couple of MMOs I've seen NPC voice in, it was... well, it wasn't terrible, but it didn't really add anything.  Plus, don't you find it weird that your hot (in-game SWTOR) girlfriend has this totally sexy voice when talking to an NPC and then talks to you in the breaking voice of a teenage dude on the end of the mic?

I can see it now (everything in voice):

You (to NPC):  Hello Jabba, you will tell us what we want to know or else!

Jabba (NPC):  Ha ha ha, silly humaan, I will tell you nothing.

your groupmate is a hot human female with large breasts and small leather top made of ysalmari skin and the sultry voice of a belly-dancer. her name is Jelinda.  She lightly brushes your leg with her warm hand and steps ahead of you as she speaks

Jelinda (to NPC):    Oh but Mighty Jabba, must we always argue?  Aren't there perhaps more ...pleasant... ways for us to help each other out?

Jelinda (to you, via voice, in a rough male voice with a heavy german accent): Zis iz it, viki say vi must to use choice noomber two on next dialogue and zen Zhabba bekome aggro.  I pull it to korner ven it happen.

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by arieste

Originally posted by cyphers

One hell of a staging ground   : I find ME2 to be one of the more immersive and smooth playable RPG's around.

 

Originally posted by arieste

So your character has a voice talking to NPC, but no voice (or a totally different voice) when talking to PCs.  How is this immersive? 

Heh, farfetched much?

Tastes will always differ, but I found the games where the storylines where enacted via voices and cutscenes with the protagonists talking to, like ME2, Metal Gear Solid 4, even Warcraft 3 and the Final Fantasy series, generally more immersive than the games where it is only shown in text, no voices or (interactive) cutscenes.

Those were all single-player games.   ME was great.  In the couple of MMOs I've seen NPC voice in, it was... well, it wasn't terrible, but it didn't really add anything.  

Your opinion, not mine. I liked it a lot, it added immersion - to me - and added immersion means more fun when I play a game.

Plus, don't you find it weird that your hot (in-game SWTOR) girlfriend has this totally sexy voice when talking to an NPC and then talks to you in the breaking voice of a teenage dude on the end of the mic?

Not really weird, that threshold of weirdness has already been crossed as soon as you got used to working with vent while playing a MMO with a group or raid.

I can see it now (everything in voice):

You (to NPC):  Hello Jabba, you will tell us what we want to know or else!

Jabba (NPC):  Ha ha ha, silly humaan, I will tell you nothing.

your groupmate is a hot human female with large breasts and small leather top made of ysalmari skin and the sultry voice of a belly-dancer. her name is Jelinda.  She lightly brushes your leg with her warm hand and steps ahead of you as she speaks

Jelinda (to NPC):    Oh but Mighty Jabba, must we always argue?  Aren't there perhaps more ...pleasant... ways for us to help each other out?

Jelinda (to you, via voice, in a rough male voice with a heavy german accent): Zis iz it, viki say vi must to use choice noomber two on next dialogue and zen Zhabba bekome aggro.  I pull it to korner ven it happen.

Heh, funny story, but as I mentioned, you either haven't gotten used to teamspeak or vent, or you crossed that weirdness threshold when you get acquainted with vent and teamspeak in MMO's

It sounds and looks to me like you are a person who skips quest text even when you go through a MMO game the first time.

Only then would you consider it annoying when you have to sit through quests that are spoken or have cutscenes: single player games have it, but also MMO's like a Guild Wars, Final Fantasy XI and Age of Conan have it.

Luckily SW TOR will give you the option to switch off voice dialogues and enable text - you'll even be able to skip through quest text just like other MMO's, except for maybe the crucial decisions you need to make.

 

For those who do like their quests flavor and the immersion it can offer, there'll be the interactive voiced dialogues: I never skipped through it when I played my single player games or the first times I went though it in MMO's and I don't intend to do it when I try out SW TOR.

Minmataro

Do you guys every get tired of being so negative?

Anyway, op thanks for the info that was cool.

I prefer MEs convo system over DA any day.

Unknown

Dragon Age's conversations felt somewhat boring and tedious compared to Mass Effect. Partly because they seemed unnaturally long-winded, partly because the protagonist didn't speak. ME all the way! I'm glad they adopted this style for SWTOR.

arieste

Originally posted by cyphers

Heh, funny story, but as I mentioned, you either haven't gotten used to teamspeak or vent, or you crossed that weirdness threshold when you get acquainted with vent and teamspeak in MMO's

I just find it a break in immersion when characters suddenly lose their ability to speak or change sexes in mid-sentence.  Of course immersion isn't the only reason to play a game.  Plenty of games don't give the slightest s**t about creating player immersion and I still enjoy them, but ultimately i'd enjoy them more if they cared about the player experience.

It sounds and looks to me like you are a person who skips quest text even when you go through a MMO game the first time.

It depends on how well the quests are written and whether they add to the immersion of the game or take away from it.  If they add to, I read them.  If they just remind me that this is a game written by really un-talented people, I skip them and go on to find immersion elsewhere or to just enjoy the game as a game. 

 

For example, most quests in TR and FE were very interesting, well-written and added to the atmosphere of the world.  I read every word.    Most quests in EQ2 are complete non-sense and regardless of whether they're spoken or text, skip them to avoid the desire to bang my ahead against the wall.

Only then would you consider it annoying when you have to sit through quests that are spoken or have cutscenes: single player games have it, but also MMO's like a Guild Wars, Final Fantasy XI and Age of Conan have it.

FFXI was awful, i don't think anything short of Megan Fox stripping in every cutscene would have held my attention.  But I'm a bit biased as I just don't "get" the heavily asian-themed games.  GW I didn't play.   AoC I liked and read everything, especially the first couple of times.  Sometimes the voice acting was cool, but mostly I found it to be distracting as I had already read the text and the intonation the character was using was different from what I heard in my head when I read it, which made it awkward.

For those who do like their quests flavor and the immersion it can offer, there'll be the interactive voiced dialogues: I never skipped through it when I played my single player games or the first times I went though it in MMO's and I don't intend to do it when I try out SW TOR.

I've never skipped them in Mass Effect as they were well done.  Otherwise, they're pretty hit and miss.  Under a Killing Moon was really good for voice too, but that was like 20 years ago. 

 

Though really, my point wasn't that I wanted to skip them, it was that I wanted the communication to be consistent throughout the game.  I don't see why that's so offensive.  If it's voice, it should be voice for everything.  If it's text, it should be text for everything. 

 

P.S.  you mention immersion, but immersion is about make WHAT you write fit with what the player does and with the rest of the world.  it's not about adding gimmicks to mask that what you've written is worthless.  I'm not saying this is the case with SWTOR, but it has been in most MMOs where I've seen voice.  The dialogue that has been the most immersive I've seen in MMOs has been text.  I'm not saying it's can't be voice - it can - i'm saying that text vs. voice is not what makes it immersive.