Don't you find the combat boring, or is it still exciting?

MMO.Maverick

A subject that came up elsewhere, and one that made me wonder: there are several things that are great qualities of LotrO, its vast expansive and rich world foremost, but traits that didn't rate among those qualities were the toony graphics and animations, and the combat.

 

At least to me that is. I always felt the combat in LotrO sluggish and not much of an improvement upon the format that was established with Everquest. LotrO's combat reminded me very much of WoW's combat mechanics, both I got after a while the same feeling of half autopiloting through my battles. Funny story, my nephew of 8 even manages to play WoW and win his fights by just clicking away at his spells. He doesnt know what they mean, nor what they do, but he wins his fights anyway by buttonmashing.

I've played a number of other MMO's, and the ones of the current generation that felt the most active and engaging were AoC's melee combat and CO's combat where you have to pay attention to time your blocks and prevent major damage.

 

But that's me, I found LotrO's combat one of the more tedious aspects of the game, especially compared to some other MMO's I've played. How do you people view LotrO's combat, and how would you rate it compared to the other MMO's you've played and the combat in those MMO's?

What are the fun parts of it, and what parts/classes are tedious and the same as the generic combat in all the other MMO's around?

Jenuviel

I don't think it's boring, it's just the traditional combat style MMOs have had since Everquest. I won't touch a game with twitch/action combat, since I just don't like action games at all, but the current generation of gamers seems to prefer them. As a result, we're seeing more and more twitchy MMOs being released. That's fine, since demand drives all markets. It does tend to lead to "my preference is better than your preference" arguments, though, since both types of games are now sharing the same landscape and competing for the same development resources.

 

As far as why I like what I do? I prefer the hotkey-driven combat of traditional MMOs much in the same way that I prefer turn-based strategy games to RTS games. Perhaps it's an age-related thing (I'm 39), maybe it's a gender issue (I'm female), maybe it's personality-based (I'm not an adrenaline junky and I never pvp), maybe it's just  random neurons firing in my brain. My gaming preferences have remained pretty stable over the years, though; the games that got me into gaming in the first place were low-tech, turn-based things like Zork, Bard's Tale, Ultima and Dragon Warrior. I never had any interest in Duke Nukem, Doom, or any other action game, which is why I moved to MMOs in the first place: they gave me the experience I was looking for. Fast-paced action combat is exactly the sort of thing I avoided before MMOs ever existed, so the fact that said combat has moved into the MMO-space doesn't interest me in the slightest.

 

In any case, the thing I like best about LotRO's combat: guardian reactive skills. I like the block/parry chains, the variations in the chains you can make as you get more skills, the ways you can affect those chains with traits. Really, though, the slower pace of combat suits my needs and desires. I play these things to unwind, to relax, to make a bit of progress. I've never logged into a game of any sort wanting to feel my heart pounding, nor am I really looking to overcome incredible challenges. I'm logging in to explore, to chat, to swat some mobs, craft some things, and make some character progress. I think the question of why people like or dislike LotRO's combat will have as many answers as there are people, though. We're motivated by different things, we like different things, and sometimes you just like the color blue more than the color yellow because you do.

dougmysticey

Originally posted by Jenuviel

I don't think it's boring, it's just the traditional combat style MMOs have had since Everquest. I won't touch a game with twitch/action combat, since I just don't like action games at all, but the current generation of gamers seems to prefer them. As a result, we're seeing more and more twitchy MMOs being released. That's fine, since demand drives all markets. It does tend to lead to "my preference is better than your preference" arguments, though, since both types of games are now sharing the same landscape and competing for the same development resources.

 

As far as why I like what I do? I prefer the hotkey-driven combat of traditional MMOs much in the same way that I prefer turn-based strategy games to RTS games. Perhaps it's an age-related thing (I'm 39), maybe it's a gender issue (I'm female), maybe it's personality-based (I'm not an adrenaline junky and I never pvp), maybe it's just  random neurons firing in my brain. My gaming preferences have remained pretty stable over the years, though; the games that got me into gaming in the first place were low-tech, turn-based things like Zork, Bard's Tale, Ultima and Dragon Warrior. I never had any interest in Duke Nukem, Doom, or any other action game, which is why I moved to MMOs in the first place: they gave me the experience I was looking for. Fast-paced action combat is exactly the sort of thing I avoided before MMOs ever existed, so the fact that said combat has moved into the MMO-space doesn't interest me in the slightest.

 

In any case, the thing I like best about LotRO's combat: guardian reactive skills. I like the block/parry chains, the variations in the chains you can make as you get more skills, the ways you can affect those chains with traits. Really, though, the slower pace of combat suits my needs and desires. I play these things to unwind, to relax, to make a bit of progress. I've never logged into a game of any sort wanting to feel my heart pounding, nor am I really looking to overcome incredible challenges. I'm logging in to explore, to chat, to swat some mobs, craft some things and make some character progress. I think the question of why people like or dislike LotRO's combat will have as many answers as there are people, though. We're motivated by different things, we like different things, and sometimes you just like the color blue more than the color yellow because you do.

 Could be a gender thing but not an age thing. it is probably just a preference thing:) For me, I am fine with the traditional MMO combat hot key style, I swing, then you swing, etc. That being said, after playing AOC and Champions I do prefer a more active combat mode ( I am in my 40s). I tried to play COH again and found the combat lacking after the more active CO super hero style of fighting. COH is a good game I just prefer one combat style over another. COH seemed slow by comparison.

The same is true of LOTRO and AOC. I enjoy LOTRO and have been playing (was in the FTP beta too) but AOC is faster paced and I like that combat better.

I do like turn based strategy over RTS though, always have. Heroes of Might and Magic is amongst my favorite game series. I am looking forward to Elemental on that front. 

Alchimes

I think you should try different classes. For example playing as a Hunter combat may seem to be slow, because of long skill induction time and casting can get interrupted when being attacked which can be annoying when fighting few mobs at once.

Recently I have tried Rune Keeper class and Im really surprised how dynamic is combat. Many skills/spells are instant cast without induction time. Whats more its possible to cast some damage and heal spells while running. Of course there are still spells which take longer time to cast like 1-2 seconds.

 

 

trancejeremy

The thing is though, with the immense amount of grinding that this game has, a combat system that would require you to pay attention all the time would just be annoying.  In some places you have to fight every 5 feet (or so it seems like).

Besides that, making combat like that reduces the number of potential players. Only people with good reflexes and internet connections.

You mention AoC, but AoC was a massive flop. Don't know what CO, but that probably wasn't a hit either.

MMO.Maverick

I heard from friends that the warden and runekeeper were great to play with, I haven't given them a try yet. It's true for any MMO I guess that combat gameplay can be very different depending on which class you play.

I know that playing a monk in GW had me sweat a lot and sometimes feel exhausted having to watch the rapidly shrinking health bars of your team members, especially if you were grouped with some people who just rushed on and didn't understand that you had to rest sometimes to restore your energy and mana. Have your timing be off for half a second and someone could be dead already. It really made me feel as if it was a job sometimes.

 

AoC, that's partially true: the launch was a flop, they should never have released a beta version of the game or budge to the investors or top management pushing for release. But that was then, the game as it is now is a solid gameplay experience, and melee combat is very engaging.

It's a matter of taste I guess; the gameplay in MMO's doesn't have to be fps-style, playing like that for hours straight can be exhausting, but to me, combat has to be engaging and make you be alert. Everquest managed to do that by having your death have meaning, you didnt want to die because of the huge XP you'd lose. Other games do it by the battles being difficult and making you pay attention, or by having to stay alert make a large difference in the outcome of battles.

dougmysticey

Originally posted by trancejeremy

The thing is though, with the immense amount of grinding that this tgame has, a combat system that would require you to pay attention all the time would just be annoying.  In some places you have to fight every 5 feet (or so it seems like).

Besides that, making combat like that reduces the number of potential players. Only people with good reflexes and internet connections.

You mention AoC, but AoC was a massive flop. Don't know what CO, but that probably wasn't a hit either.

 AOC "was" a flop due to launch issues, not the combat mechanics, which is the topic of the discussion. AOC is now one of the better MMOs available but it took em a long time to get there.

The combat is more action oriented in AOC and you don't autohit and lock on to a single target. if you are swinging a massive great weapon you could hit multiple targets if they are within range. You pick the direction of your swing based on the defensive position of the enemy and then you do combos and often times have a very cool finale where you get to kill your enemy with a flare (lop of head, burry your sword in them, watch the stagger while you laugh, then pull it out, etc).

I would liken to getting behind the wheel of a Ford Mustang and driving at top speeds, accelerating quickly, and then jumping behind the wheel of a Ford Focus 4 banger. Both drive well and both get you where you want to go but the pace on the Mustang leaves yawning a bit and wishing you could go a little faster when you get in the Focus.

Did that make sense? I like LOTRO and have a 40+ level captain plus other characters in mid 20 level range but after playing more dynamic combat systems I can feel the difference.

meleemadness

I am 44 dont dont care for spaming all my didgets on a game pad to get results.  I like the current method of combat. 

Redline65

I wouldn't call the combat in LOTRO "exciting" at all, but that's not really what I'm looking for in this game I guess. For me it's more about the atmosphere, the stories, and the environments.

Actually, out of the MMOs I've played only DDO has what I'd consider "exciting" combat.

BesCirga

I'm not too keen on the "new and revamped" combat system Lotro has now, but I liked the old system - less button smashing and it felt more RPG-ish and turn based. I do like that Turbine categorized the weapon speed into larger groups giving the players more options, even though it nerfed my dear Captain  

All in all, the combat systems are never game breaking for me, I can usually adapt to them pretty well, including Lotro. I don't play Lotro anymore but that is because of other game breaking changes Turbine did from 2008 - today, which I wont mention here...

tikt4ever

If you want combat to be more "exciting" or require actual skill, I highly recommend the warden class.  It's extremely versatile and robust if you're skillful enough to execute the correct gambits as they're needed in combat.

Sovrath

Originally posted by BesCirga

I'm not too keen on the "new and revamped" combat system Lotro has now, but I liked the old system - less button smashing and it felt more RPG-ish and turn based. I do like that Turbine categorized the weapon speed into larger groups giving the players more options, even though it nerfed my dear Captain  

All in all, the combat systems are never game breaking for me, I can usually adapt to them pretty well, including Lotro. I don't play Lotro anymore but that is because of other game breaking changes Turbine did from 2008 - today, which I wont mention here...

I have all the new combat blending or whatever it is turned off. It makes the combat seem faster but it doesn't look all that great in my opinion.

I don't mind the speed of the combat at all. I just don't like how stiff the animations are.

BesCirga

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by BesCirga

I'm not too keen on the "new and revamped" combat system Lotro has now, but I liked the old system - less button smashing and it felt more RPG-ish and turn based. I do like that Turbine categorized the weapon speed into larger groups giving the players more options, even though it nerfed my dear Captain  

All in all, the combat systems are never game breaking for me, I can usually adapt to them pretty well, including Lotro. I don't play Lotro anymore but that is because of other game breaking changes Turbine did from 2008 - today, which I wont mention here...

I have all the new combat blending or whatever it is turned off. It makes the combat seem faster but it doesn't look all that great in my opinion.

I don't mind the speed of the combat at all. I just don't like how stiff the animations are.

I did have the combat blending off to, but it did help much. My big gripe with the new system was that it didn't feel right; it felt very clunky and choppy, unlike the old system which had a nice flow to it. The new combat system was a step backwards in my opinion. But I digress, I know that I am in the minority about this issue. If the majority think this is the best system for Lotro, I am all for it. The more online - the merrier (usually)   

The animations don't bother me at all...

grimboj

It's pretty stale stuff to be honest, there's nothing engaging about it at all. Look at guild wars and WoW - they were immensively successful because their combat is engaging. If you hit 50 boars in those games then every time there is a SHEZAM factor that keeps you engaged. LOTROs skills are unimpressive for almost every class and there's just no UMPH to the whole thing.