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Trolling, or Excuse to Delete Post? Constructive Please !!
ChinaCat
Member UncommonPosts: 670
Hi Guys,
This is a delicate topic to bring up here as posts that bash other games and such are deleted and for good reason. I am not trying to bash another game and hope this thread doesn't go in that direction. I just happen to be a fan of DFO. I've had issues with it and still do, but overall think DFO rocks and for the most part really like the changes thus far and the direction it is headed.
I try to avoid arguing about games, but do try and provide constructive posts to give some additional perspective on this game, which is usually very much needed since many opinions are way out-dated.
With the changes to DFO and the free trial, I think there are a lot of gamers who would experience a very different game than what many posts I read would lead others to believe.
As an avid MMO fan, particularly of games allowing FFA PvP, I decided to give MO a go at release. That was a $50 mistake, but oh well.
On the Mortal Online forum there was a bug that didn't allow me to link my forum name ChinaCat with my account, so once the subscriber only forum was put in place the last week of June, I started only using my forum name that is linked with my account and that forum name is "Gratus".
In this thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/48272-leaving-darkfall-mortal-online.html we have what in my opinion is a troll OP. Be that as it it may, I tried to keep the thread constructive and for the most part it was going ok.
My last post today at the end of that thread was just deleted and I was given a warning for "Trolling".
What do you guys and/or Mods think? Was this not constructive and trolliing, or was it an excuse to remove a post?
Dear Gratus,
You have received a warning at Mortal Online Forums.
Reason:
-------
Trolling
Do not troll.
-------
Original Post:
Look guys - We all know the "vision" of sand and such for MO. We also know the state of the game. DFO over shadows MO with content and simply the ability to play dramatically. You can prefer the "vision" of MO and that's great, but comparing the games as of today is ludicrous. There are hundreds of DFO videos made by players that reflect a full and complete game that is still evolving. I can't find one single video of MO, let alone my own in-game experience that is even remotely what I'd consider a comparison. MO is in Alpha/Beta at best. I've played alpha/beta's I've enjoyed, just not willing this time around to pay for it. More power to those who are and hope the end justifies the means; if it does, we all win.
Good luck. -Gratus
Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.
All the best,
Mortal Online Forums
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Comments
They could've read it as either a) a sarcastic post or b) a post slandering MO. Either way, companies usually do not want their customers to trash-talk other games.
- It could also be seen as flamebait.
Eleanor Rigby.
Well for starters most official forums get rid of talk of other games, so by repeatedly saying in your thread by how DF was so much better of a game, that is likely what caused the deletion.
Different companies police differently so I do not know on MO forums how saying the game was unfinished would go over, to me I wouldn't take that part as trolling. So overall I think it was simply the saying how much better DF was then MO that caused the warning.
Plus this thread should be in the MO forums here, not the DF forums.
omg u troll!
I see what you're saying, but understand the post referenced above that was deleted was the last post on the last page of that thread. So look at what was allowed up to that point in addition to the OP of the thread and then let me know your thoughts please.
Thanks -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
From what I've seen and heard, MO's mods are known for deleting/warning users who have posted negative comments regarding MO, even if they were very consutrctive.
No big suprise here.
I see the other posts and see the connection you are making but I think you are looking at it wrong. Basically it is up to the mods to enforce the rules, now without trying to find the MO official forum rules I will assume that discussing other games is against the rules. The OP didn't so much discuss DF as say he left it. Anyone else that mentioned DF said they liked MO better, which I'm sure the mods wouldn't be quick to delete. Yours was the only one that discussed DF and said how much better it was then MO.
There are no rules about discussing other games. Rules are here. http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49-forum-rules.html
Post number 24 is also a positive post about DFO and honestly, I can't keep track of what's been deleted by others or not.
Pro DFO or not isn't the point. My post was removed for the reason given of "Trolling". I am trying to understand if what I wrote was "Trolling" or if that was an excuse to delete a post they didn't want others to read, which is disturbing if true, since what I wrote is fair and ample opportunity to dispute or discuss it exists.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Let's put it as simple as this then:
Making a post on an official game forum where the whole post talks about how great this other game is and how bad the particular game those forums are for, can easily be interpretted as trolling.
Also they do on those rules you gave have the part of not advertising other games. Posting positively about another game could directly be seen as advertising that game. Even more so when you compare that game favorably with MO.
My post was not made in a void. You have to read it in the context of the entire thread and in response to that entire thread it was not an advertisement but a response to the rhetoric.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Look, as much as players want forums to be completely free and accepting of all sorts of discussion, the truth is that is just not the case.
Game companies don't want you comparing their games unfavorably to other games. I don't know if non-subrscibers can read the forums but if they can then to a certain point they also become a sort of advertising.
There was nothign "bad" per se about your post but quite frankly I raised an eye brown when I got to the part indicating Darkfall is better because of x.
I'm sure they don't want to come out and say "don't speak about our game in an adverse way in comparison to other games" so they say "don't troll".
It is what it is. Lineage 2 had some strict forums as well regarding certain things.
It's like going into someone's home and commenting how the dinner they are serving doesn't quite meet the standards of another's dinner. You just don't do it. If it was a public forum for players by players then I could understand a more "anything goes" attitude.
But these are private forums and you just have to adopt a when in rome policy.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yea, I can see that; but the fact remains it wasn't "Trolling". It was a comment a moderator didn't like or agree with so he used trolling to delete it.
Thanks for the feedback; like most others, few appreciate being censored.
I said from the start in that thread the OP was supid for making the remarks he did in the first place. Guy participates in a 1-wek trial of DFO and makes a post entitled "Leaving DFO for MO". Not only is that an invitation for problems but the OP didn't play DFO long enough to consider himself leaving it.
In the end I think my biggest source of frustration is how misleading I feel those forums & its community is and there are going to be people who get burnt buying the game. While I have experienced many games with launch issues like AO and DFO, once the server issues passed there was a lot of game under the hood. With MO, it really does feel like it's just beginning in many ways. That's not a bad thing for those who want to pay for and be part of its progression. Whatever; I'm moving on and since I won't be subscribing now that my 30-days is over, I'll just remove the link from my bookmarks and save myself a whole lot of aggrevation
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
You really don't know how forums work? Your post could get deleted if the mod thinks your name is stupid. It doesnt matter if your post follows all of the rules, if it is even negative in the slightest way about whatver game's forum you're on the mods will delete it, most likely because they are fanboys themselves. happens on almost all forums.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
For the part in red: my sentiments exactly. I agree with you ChinaCat that in order to avoid being hypocrites, the mod/s at the MO forums should've shut that thread down from the get go. Like many others have said, it makes sense that most developers don't wan't their games compared to game B or game C, but this should go both ways. I think it's unfair that if a post is made putting MO in a positive light versus another game, the thread is allowed to live, whereas the opposite has consquences not unlike yours.
I do believe that negative or positive feedback on games should be given only in relation to the game and what it's players are experiencing. There is no need to make comparisons to other games in front of the devs, and I like what someone else posted with the dinner analogy.
In my opinion, where you trolling? Absolutely not.
Could your comments be construed as a bit insensitive and out of place by the mods, especially considering Starvault's situation? Yeah, I would say so.
But that's the thing, the moderator has to remove your post but what excuse? Telling the truth? Spreading lies? Spreading dissension? Bad P.R.?
They don't really have a lot of choices so they pick the closest and run with it.
I'm pretty sure the moderator knew you weren't trolling. But he/she looked at his list and said "well, this is the closest I have as I need to apply a reason within my limited choices" and he/she picked trolling.
So in the end it really isn't a big deal. I'm sure you know you'll move on as do we all who have made some sort of comment that toed the line.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
ChinaCat, i got banned for 3 days in the darkfall official forum because i mentioned mortal online.
All niche company do that when they feel a tention against an other game company.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
BTW, i am BigStackOfBeef.
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The situation was similar on DF official forums few months ago. Any post about MO would get deleted because "advertising competing product was against Aventurine interests",
Now the politics have changed, because AV no longer sees MO as "threat", at least no more than Mount & Blade or Starcraft 2 - and you can post about MO as much as you like.
Well like I said, I think that thread should of been closed to begin with and you can see how I basically said that and treaded softly until I just got fed up at the end of it. Like Azerin posted above, there should be consistancy to avoid hypocrisy.
It's impossible for me to comment on your DFO board banning Realbigdeal because I've no idea what you said; if you were the OP or what the context was around it; but certainly advertising a competing game on another games official forum isn't a great idea. My post never would have been made if SRV didn't allow that thread to continue , which they did so long as they thought it was saying what they wanted it to.
In the end we all have preferences and opinions and I find it wierd how serious we can get about it all, myself included. Hopefully we never lose the ability to get some distance from it all and laugh at ourselves.
Whatever ones preference, after years of having cookie cutter games spoon fed to us it's nice to finally see some chances being taken; ironically in no small part due to the huge market that now resides in the MMO genre thanks to games we may not even like.
In leaving MO and closing that door there is one dissapointment I have with it that goes way beyond any of the technical issues challenging it. I don't think the developers have the business or technical acumen or PR savvy (common sense) to pull it off. These games are far more complex to make work than many realize, or so I've been told by qualifed professionals in the field. SRV appear way over their heads, but hopefully I'll be proven wrong. Even with the horrid lag upon UO's release in 97', Anarchy Online's fiasco at release and DFO terrible server synch and lag problems at release, once those issue stabalized there was a lot of game in place under the hood. Under the MO hood is a whole lot of nothing but hope.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Someone in the DF official forum already got banned to make a thread about MO in Off topic. When you speak about any other mmorpg's, its ok, but when you make a thread about MO in the official forum, you get banned. Me, i got banned because i made a comparaison just by saying that, You have to go AFK in order to raise your stats, in MO, you can play the game normally and your stats will raise naturally(I said that in a stats type thread). Then i got banned. If i made a comparaison with any other game, they woulnt bother at all.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
MO mods arent know for tolerating bad views.
Especially ones where you praise the competition and claim their game being bad.
What did you expect?
Their forum and there for they can do what ever they want there.
Yet i have to see a game with official forum where this isnt a fact. Not even DFO :-)
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
Lol never expected such a move from AV. Yeah they deleted few posts by me where i pointed out the negative aspects of DFO (grind etc), but i was ok as its their forum and their rules, but still i didnt expect them banning you by posting in off-topic.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
Simple truth is they can ban you for any or no reason at all.
They need no reason, it is their game and their forums.
There is no freedom of speech on the internet, and you have no right to say anything anywhere.
This being said, I think it was excessive to delete your post based on the limited information you provided.
Without being able to see the entire thread you posted in, and any other recent posts by you, I can't fairly judge this, neither can anyone else.
(also, really with the green font??)
This was a response to my post where I showed how I felt the post broke their rules in two different ways. (I'm only writing that line since unlike other forums I can't figure out how to quote two different replies in one post if the person in the second post didn't quote the first).
It doesn't matter what thread it was made in, or who said what before you. The moderators have to look at each post all on its own and see if it break the rules. Are there other posts that should have been moderated, or should the thread have been locked before you even got to post on it? Quite possibly. However one guy not getting punished for breaking the rules does NOT mean the next person to do it is exempt from the rules.
People speed down the highway everyday and don't get any tickets. Does that mean everyone who breaks the rules by speeding should be free from getting a ticket? No. Someone else breaking the rules is never justification for you to break the rules.
Your post can very easily have been seen as trolling. When you are on a game's forums and start talking about how much better game X is then this one, it can definetly be taken as trolling. I also pointed out where their forum rules say do not advertise other games. Saying how great some other game is can 100% be taken as advertising for that game. So yes your post was against the rules, but you also only got a warning and a deletion. No actions were taken against your account.
I take your word for it but given how loose the DFO forum is in allowing its game to be bashed by those who wish to, the reason for the banning was most likely due to excessive trolling; but who knows; mods are just people. I've actually had an excellent exchange of private messages with the mod who deleted my post and in the end feel fine about the whole thing.
MO has different types of time sinks. If you read a book your skills can raise while off-line, but now with books spread out all over the world it's a time sink to obtain a specific book. Nodes deplete, so like DFO you have that to deal with as well. Purely from a gamers enthusiast stand-point it would be fun and constructive to compare game play mechanics and choices, although at this early of MO's life it is hardly fair to do. A game can have the most amazing ideas or game play rules known to man, but if you crash frequently or simple things just don't work, who cares? I've was working on a tamer/mage for 30-days and enjoyed it, but losing a pet each time you move past some type of zone area, or having your pet jump all of the place so you don't even know exactly where the pet is makes it sort of hard to enjoy the feature. MO needs a lot more time to transition from "hopes & aspirations" to reality. Until that time comes, for me personally, I don't see a discussion comparing it to other games as very meaningful; but that's just me based upon my experience in the game.
Cheers -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
why are you surprised? the real trolls spam the report button and the mods just mindlessly do whatever. Thats why forums like this and MO forums are such shit. the over moderation kills the desire of a lot of the people who actually know what they are talking about to continue posting. You can't even call a troll a troll without getting banned here.
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2