The graphics are absolutely stunning! Although I'm not a huge fan of the character models, they are done very well and the world graphics look amazing.
One thing I do have some beef with is this:
"The new Retainer system enables players to hire an NPC named Retainer to help them sell items in a designated market, but players should choose their goods and set prices in advance. Even though players are offline, that NPC will still work for them.
There are business zones in each town, like Limsa Lominsa and players can place that NPC there to sell items. The business zones must be very busy as soon as the beta test is officially launched. To prevent the business zones from being too crowded, developers are currently considering expanding the business zone in the form of instance."
What is it with Asian developers and these dreadful personal shops? Why not just have an auction house and forget about these business districts and instancing them? I really hated these private shops in Aion, Lineage II and every single Asian F2P MMO currently on the market. I just know that every single business zone will be filled with thousands of personal shops, most of which would be selling useless items and by the time you find one which actually sold something remotely useful, someone had already purchased it.
The auction house would streamline buying and selling so that people can concentrate on more important things, like playing the actual game.
/rant
Otherwise, the game looks and sounds great and I can't wait to play it!
Im with you I hated it back in EQ... you could never find anything.... and sooooo laggy..I havent play other games that had personal shops so can really comment about the others but in FF they had the aution plus your personal shop. and that seemed to work so I think/hope they will have an Auction house plus retainers it wouldnt make much sense to have just retainers its just a pain in the ass running to all those people trying to find a sword upgrade..
None of the screens are impressive,idk maybe i am not easily pleased.The all blue scene is of course one colour,and there is no detail,so not a good screenshot to show off with.The other is a screen ofsame old landscape looking at again a non detail ,dithered castle in the backdrop.
The retainer system is brutal,of course it is already admitting,we will have storage woes,why can't they just give us our storage,it was a major fail of FFXI.The reason it is even worse now is because MOST players will utilize the retainers,which will mean we will see a Korean F2P look a like where by there is thousands of retainers all in one area selling,somewhat like STALLS in the Korean F2P games.Square knows this will be the case,so they are hinting at instances,real sad,if they know it is a bad design,then change it already.
Here is a thought ,a rather simple one,give us the same old Auction house,but give us tons of selling slots,example 100 or whatever,what is their problem?Why can't they just make it simple?Are they continually looking for ways to grind an extra buck out of us or something?
The battle system is still too vague,i think i will have to physically try it for myself.It looks to me to be non fluent or constructive to itself.The reason i say this ,is because in FFXI,aside from sammy of course,most players would gradually hit 100 tp at the same time,maybe a difference of 1 hit to wait to form a chain with another player.This system looks more like a sloppy solo system,guages will all be different ,players will show no thought ,just spam their skills when the guage hits a certain point.I was hoping to see a better system than FFXI,where by players were encouraged to chain with each other,in otherwords MORE team work.This may end up being the case,but on paper it looks more like FFXIII's system than FFXI's system.
I would have liked to see more influence on saving TP,and team work,example 200/300 tp had bigger rewards,maybe extra effects,chaining a weapon skill would benefit even more damage,instead of solo spamming,like it's a race ,rather than tactical.I would have liked to see TP saved after fights,after all it is a TACTICAL point,if there is an advantage to saving it,then it is up to the player.I guess the TP does not really stand for TACTICAL POINTS.Perhaps i am jumping the gun,maybe i will like the new system,so far it doesn't seem i will,especially since i did not like FFXIII's system one bit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Also what is this thing the game goes gold in August. Even single player games only go gold a few weeks before release, not a full whooping month. Especially if they belong to a large company. We are not 100 years ago, we can send data via telecomunication systems. Airfrieght transport for solid goods is very common, and you'd be suprised the distances trucks cover in a short period of time. The industrial world has a pretty impressive infrastructure going for it.
Also this is an MMO, I never seen an MMO that did not have atleast an impressive patch after you installed the CD. So even after an MMO goes live, a few build updates happen in the final weeks. Actually from what I heard MMO developers tend to burn a lot of midnight oil before release and even during the first month after release.
I also been a Beta Tester a few times, in the last 2 weeks of Beta (even when it was open), I seen dramatic, widescale modifications done to the game. Every single MMO I betaed in the past. I do not know S-E oil burning schedules and how much they are willing to tweak their game in the beta phase, but I doubt it is the finished product people are seeing now.
Also what is this thing the game goes gold in August. Even single player games only go gold a few weeks before release, not a full whooping month. Especially if they belong to a large company. We are not 100 years ago, we can send data via telecomunication systems. Airfrieght transport for solid goods is very common, and you'd be suprised the distances trucks cover in a short period of time. The industrial world has a pretty impressive infrastructure going for it.
As long as the engine is ready until end of August, the rest can be tweaked later on,
I assume we all have a BIG update to download in September, with all the additions and changes from end of August to end of September included. Can't really avoid it lol
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Also what is this thing the game goes gold in August. Even single player games only go gold a few weeks before release, not a full whooping month. Especially if they belong to a large company. We are not 100 years ago, we can send data via telecomunication systems. Airfrieght transport for solid goods is very common, and you'd be suprised the distances trucks cover in a short period of time. The industrial world has a pretty impressive infrastructure going for it.
As long as the engine is ready until end of August, the rest can be tweaked later on,
I assume we all have a BIG update to download in September, with all the additions and changes from end of August to end of September included. Can't really avoid it lol
Nothing new about that, it happened to every other MMO, even WoW had a lot of patching on release and a far from flawless patch system.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The graphics are absolutely stunning! Although I'm not a huge fan of the character models, they are done very well and the world graphics look amazing.
One thing I do have some beef with is this:
"The new Retainer system enables players to hire an NPC named Retainer to help them sell items in a designated market, but players should choose their goods and set prices in advance. Even though players are offline, that NPC will still work for them.
There are business zones in each town, like Limsa Lominsa and players can place that NPC there to sell items. The business zones must be very busy as soon as the beta test is officially launched. To prevent the business zones from being too crowded, developers are currently considering expanding the business zone in the form of instance."
What is it with Asian developers and these dreadful personal shops? Why not just have an auction house and forget about these business districts and instancing them? I really hated these private shops in Aion, Lineage II and every single Asian F2P MMO currently on the market. I just know that every single business zone will be filled with thousands of personal shops, most of which would be selling useless items and by the time you find one which actually sold something remotely useful, someone had already purchased it.
The auction house would streamline buying and selling so that people can concentrate on more important things, like playing the actual game.
/rant
Otherwise, the game looks and sounds great and I can't wait to play it!
Im with you I hated it back in EQ... you could never find anything.... and sooooo laggy..I havent play other games that had personal shops so can really comment about the others but in FF they had the aution plus your personal shop. and that seemed to work so I think/hope they will have an Auction house plus retainers it wouldnt make much sense to have just retainers its just a pain in the ass running to all those people trying to find a sword upgrade..
The problem is the Auction House is a reward for little effort. I remeber some very good times in early EQ just sitting around buying and selling gear to make money. I wasn't particularly good at it, but I had fun. However, I can also accept that not everyone enjoys that kind of play just like everyone has something they do/do not like. Back to the AH, its just a game system more blatant than most. People put goods up and they get mailed gold, wonderful in theory. But in my feeling it frustrates the market of people who do like to buy and sell by taking much of the control out of their hands. Again this is good and bad, not saying its perfect either way, but that I think is one of the reasons that the personal shops exist.
I live in the US. I can't speak for every western culture, but I can say many of the ones I know about are not bartercentric economies, you go to the store you pay the price. Other cultures, the art of the deal is in full parade. In that sense controlling a well setup player shop, spending time searching and making good purchases, and then reselling for profit, can provide a fun experience for people who like that aspect. Frankly if you want other people to sell your goods, like an AH, you should pay a beastly commission, not just the standard trivial amount. So if you're lazy, or uninterested you can sell that but its not worth what you'd get making a little more effort, which is what most MMO's revolve around... theoretically. More effort, more reward.
Having said all that I've not really liked the way the player shops have been setup either, they're extremely distracting and reaaaaaally obnoxious most of the time. Still I think there's a good reason behind them, they just need perhaps some innovation on the idea.
Exactly, I just find it a little humourous that some people think games go through little change in the last 2 months, especially MMOs. I seen ground shaking patches developed on the last days of beta or just prior to release. That mega release patch is almost a given.
Actually I seen single player games have them too.. I remember my Xbox live dowloading an update for RDR when I poped the disk in for the first time on the day I got it, release day no less.
I've never seen an MMO change it's faults within the few months before launch. Normally you get stability and framerate fixes, but you don't get any of the design choices changed. So everything you experience atm is pretty much how it'll be, though probably with some polish and story stuff they've taken out. I really doubt the character creation will get any better than it is now for example.
In FFXI you could set up you character to sell goods (your character becomes the merchant). FFXI also was one of the first MMOs to use a sort of Auction House. To this day, I think FFXI has the best AH system of any MMO.
In the FFXI AH, the seller would set a minimum price for their items. Players would then "bid" on items not knowing the posted price. The AH would also keep records so players can look up the going price for items.
For example, a seller could put a sword up for 100gil. Another player comes along and notices the price has been 200gil and attempts to bid 150gil. Because 150 > 100, the sword sells for 150.
Smart players could easily play the market and earn quite a bit of gil quickly. For example, in one town, I noticed the going price for a specific low-level piece of equippment was 1000 gil. I also knew I could buy that very same item from a npc merchant in a remote part of town for 200 gil. I would buy a piece, put it up on AH and make a profit. That and transporting items between towns would provide some nice profits as well.
The retainer sounds like SE's way of improving FFXI system. You hire your retainer, set him/her up in the market, then go adventuring without having to have a second account on another computer or leaving your character logged int.
Right now i'd say the biggest issue isn't the retainer/AH, but how horribly inefficient and clunky switching between active/passive mode is.
Having to stop moving and stand there for a second to do so makes me think that future boss encounters will all be tank and spank again. I don't see how this system could be used to kite properly or move quickly to avoid certain boss spells/abilities. I hope i'm wrong though.
I think you're worrying unnecessarily here, PvE encounters are always designed with the battle system in mind, and I think SE can squeeze a bit more than tank and spank out of XIV.
I think you're worrying unnecessarily here, PvE encounters are always designed with the battle system in mind, and I think SE can squeeze a bit more than tank and spank out of XIV.
I'd agree with you if it wasnt the same clunky mechanic used in XI.
The problem is the Auction House is a reward for little effort. I remeber some very good times in early EQ just sitting around buying and selling gear to make money. I wasn't particularly good at it, but I had fun. However, I can also accept that not everyone enjoys that kind of play just like everyone has something they do/do not like. Back to the AH, its just a game system more blatant than most. People put goods up and they get mailed gold, wonderful in theory. But in my feeling it frustrates the market of people who do like to buy and sell by taking much of the control out of their hands. Again this is good and bad, not saying its perfect either way, but that I think is one of the reasons that the personal shops exist.
I live in the US. I can't speak for every western culture, but I can say many of the ones I know about are not bartercentric economies, you go to the store you pay the price. Other cultures, the art of the deal is in full parade. In that sense controlling a well setup player shop, spending time searching and making good purchases, and then reselling for profit, can provide a fun experience for people who like that aspect. Frankly if you want other people to sell your goods, like an AH, you should pay a beastly commission, not just the standard trivial amount. So if you're lazy, or uninterested you can sell that but its not worth what you'd get making a little more effort, which is what most MMO's revolve around... theoretically. More effort, more reward.
Having said all that I've not really liked the way the player shops have been setup either, they're extremely distracting and reaaaaaally obnoxious most of the time. Still I think there's a good reason behind them, they just need perhaps some innovation on the idea.
I don't know. I just feel like having an Auction house and these retainers is a waste. Especially since the retainers can only be in certain zones and those zones will be instanced. If there is going to be a search feature for the items that retainers sell, it's basically a clunkier auction house with buyout only.
Clunkier because you're probably going to have to physically go to the location of the shop to purchase the item. It will become a much more of a pain in the ass if these zones become instanced.
I would prefer a market system like in EVE but the auction house works pretty well in most games that do it right. I know a few people, myself included, who have made some decent gold in WoW. These retainers seem like a step back and remind me too much of F2P games. Hopefully there will be more info released on how they and the business districts work.
Its actually not that hard.... make all stuff available from retainers also available on the auction house.... but at a 10% extra charge, so people could choose wether they'd buy from AH or run to retainers. This way the function of retainers becomes more like extra storage
I personally think an auction house is very important, even more an auction house also accessible from out of game through mobile devices is the best.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I don't know. I just feel like having an Auction house and these retainers is a waste. Especially since the retainers can only be in certain zones and those zones will be instanced. If there is going to be a search feature for the items that retainers sell, it's basically a clunkier auction house with buyout only.
Clunkier because you're probably going to have to physically go to the location of the shop to purchase the item. It will become a much more of a pain in the ass if these zones become instanced.
I would prefer a market system like in EVE but the auction house works pretty well in most games that do it right. I know a few people, myself included, who have made some decent gold in WoW. These retainers seem like a step back and remind me too much of F2P games. Hopefully there will be more info released on how they and the business districts work.
It is a waste unless they're properly differentiated. The AH is convenient and costs you less in time and maintenance but should cost you more in currency because of associated "cuts." Personal shops take more time but less in cuts perhaps substituting some kind of upkeep, direct trades cost nothing but the most in time. I think its a legitimate system and would serve to keep a much larger section of people happy than just the AH alone.
I think AH's are one of those features that are basically expected now, much like guilds, some form of crafting, etc. If it was missing people wouldn't be able to see the rest of the game through the reflexive ranting and bashing. Most of the time they help facilitate player economies as well, so they are a good thing, but then again they are also another symptom of depersonalizing what should be a very social experience. On one hand people rant about "solo" mmog's and another they'd rant if the AH is missing despite the fact that would indeed force a different kind of grouping.
I know in WoW many people still used trade to buy and sell goods. I know I did because I was too cheap to pay the AH cut and prices most of the time, but I also had mods installed to search the AH for the items I was looking for, its just part of the way I enjoy the game, by finding good deals. It's about more options even if people don't use them all.
I dislike auction houses. Yes it is fast, and when you quickly need something it is nice to have, still it destroys the fun of shopping. (For both seller and buyer)
But todays games it is always about fast and easy.
I am pretty sure the retainers are also easy acces (something like AH), but maybe make it a little more fun for people who actually like to be more connected to the crafters and traders of the game.
Maybe you can buy the item in the "AH" thing and then need to walk to the stand to get the item. Then you see the shop, and maybe look what that person has more for sale. You browser through the stuff and you might discover it is selling more interesting stuff.
Also it would encourage me to look at the other stands, looking at AH is only good if you search for something, but I like to walk around shops and see what everyone has for sale. (I actually hate shopping in real life.)
I hope it works like that, for me it would be the best of two worlds.
I want to see their shops, yes even if it is in a crowded area, just like a real market, I guess.
I hope the shops have some stand around it, and you can decorate it in your own way, colors, and some items for display. Also the clothing and color style of the retainer.
I dislike auction houses. Yes it is fast, and when you quickly need something it is nice to have, still it destroys the fun of shopping. (For both seller and buyer)
But todays games it is always about fast and easy.
Reading through this thread I couldn't help but to laugh. I remember back in UO where I would spend literally an entire day shopping. I'm talking 10-12 hours doing nothing in the game but going around to all of the different housing areas and looking at the vendors stationed at people's houses.
Marking the shops with a good price, or the really cool looking "malls" that were placed around the map. I can still remember one of my favorite places to go was a castle by the swamp area (not in T2A) which had great prices on the different colored armor and GM weapons, I would always go there to restock. It was very cool the way they had it set up with different "shops" inside the castle.
Anyway, I'm just rambling now. My point was that it's funny to see people bitching about maybe having to go to different instances in 1 enclosed area to find an item they're looking for.
Instant gratification is the name of the game now.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I dislike auction houses. Yes it is fast, and when you quickly need something it is nice to have, still it destroys the fun of shopping. (For both seller and buyer)
But todays games it is always about fast and easy.
Reading through this thread I couldn't help but to laugh. I remember back in UO where I would spend literally an entire day shopping. I'm talking 10-12 hours doing nothing in the game but going around to all of the different housing areas and looking at the vendors stationed at people's houses.
Marking the shops with a good price, or the really cool looking "malls" that were placed around the map. I can still remember one of my favorite places to go was a castle by the swamp area (not in T2A) which had great prices on the different colored armor and GM weapons, I would always go there to restock. It was very cool the way they had it set up with different "shops" inside the castle.
Anyway, I'm just rambling now. My point was that it's funny to see people bitching about maybe having to go to different instances in 1 enclosed area to find an item they're looking for.
Instant gratification is the name of the game now.
Yeah I remember doing that too. It was the same in SWg too, hours shopping and finding bargains!
I dislike auction houses. Yes it is fast, and when you quickly need something it is nice to have, still it destroys the fun of shopping. (For both seller and buyer)
But todays games it is always about fast and easy.
Reading through this thread I couldn't help but to laugh. I remember back in UO where I would spend literally an entire day shopping. I'm talking 10-12 hours doing nothing in the game but going around to all of the different housing areas and looking at the vendors stationed at people's houses.
Marking the shops with a good price, or the really cool looking "malls" that were placed around the map. I can still remember one of my favorite places to go was a castle by the swamp area (not in T2A) which had great prices on the different colored armor and GM weapons, I would always go there to restock. It was very cool the way they had it set up with different "shops" inside the castle.
Anyway, I'm just rambling now. My point was that it's funny to see people bitching about maybe having to go to different instances in 1 enclosed area to find an item they're looking for.
Instant gratification is the name of the game now.
I enjoyed shopping in UO as well. However, one huge defining factor was that shopping in UO was an adventure in itself as you were running from house to house out in the wilderness and were open to attack by monsters and other players. It was basically like a quest.
It is not the same as going to a certain, completely safe mind you, instance and running from player vendor to player vendor. It's not even about instant gratification. This is basically a less streamlined auction house. It's a pointless waste of time. Time better spent playing and exploring the actual game.
Besides, how can you even compare UO's vendors in player's houses with private shops? Or do you honestly think that you will see these castle malls that you so fondly remember? Download Battle of Immortals and run to Atlantis Square (should take you like 2 minutes at most). You'll see what a market district full of player vendors looks like. It's basically a zone that looks like of an endless sea of personal shops with names like "plz buy" or "<3 sexigurlz shop " or shops like "mounts/pets" and when you open them, they have absolutely nothing to do with mounts and/or pets. Eventually, these play shops start to blend together, because they are so close to each other and I just want to go back to WoW with it's sane AH.
Anyway, I'm not sure if that's your idea of a good trade system but it definitely not my idea of one.
I enjoyed shopping in UO as well. However, one huge defining factor was that shopping in UO was an adventure in itself as you were running from house to house out in the wilderness and were open to attack by monsters and other players. It was basically like a quest.
I never said I enjoyed shopping in UO. In fact, I hated it as much as I do shopping in real life. It was boring, tedious, and sometimes a complete waste of time if you were looking for a particular item, or price point.
I was simply remarking that no one complained in UO about it, it was just part of the game. Also that the purposed retainer system will take WAY less time than was spent in games like UO searching through house after house for items.
It is not the same as going to a certain, completely safe mind you, instance and running from player vendor to player vendor. It's not even about instant gratification. This is basically a less streamlined auction house. It's a pointless waste of time. Time better spent playing and exploring the actual game.
I don't see it as a waste of time. From what I understand the retainers will not only act as personal vendors, but also additional storage. And it's cheaper to add more retainers to your account than another actual character.
There will still be an action house but I'm guessing there will be a posting fee while setting up a personal vendor will be free, or at least less expensive than the auction house. Also it's already been stated that there will be a search function for the retainers, making it even easier.
Besides, how can you even compare UO's vendors in player's houses with private shops? Or do you honestly think that you will see these castle malls that you so fondly remember?
Nope, I was simply reminiscing.
Download Battle of Immortals and run to Atlantis Square (should take you like 2 minutes at most). You'll see what a market district full of player vendors looks like. It's basically a zone that looks like of an endless sea of personal shops with names like "plz buy" or "<3 sexigurlz shop " or shops like "mounts/pets" and when you open them, they have absolutely nothing to do with mounts and/or pets. Eventually, these play shops start to blend together, because they are so close to each other and I just want to go back to WoW with it's sane AH.
Yea and I'm not sure what the point is here? FFXIV will not be anything like this from what I've seen so far. But I completely agree with you, for games that are like you described, FFXIV not being one of those games.
Anyway, I'm not sure if that's your idea of a good trade system but it definitely not my idea of one.
FFXIV is going to introduce a standard auction house and also the retainer system for player vendors. They way they've described it so far seems like it will only enhance the player-to-player trades, so yes, it does sound like a good improvement on the standard auction house trade system.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I've never seen an MMO change it's faults within the few months before launch. Normally you get stability and framerate fixes, but you don't get any of the design choices changed. So everything you experience atm is pretty much how it'll be, though probably with some polish and story stuff they've taken out. I really doubt the character creation will get any better than it is now for example.
What's wrong with the design choices? I'm quite pleased with them and especially with the character creation system. A huge improvement over FFXI, we could use more hair choices but I've already seen screens of hair I had not seen last month, so maybe there's more to be added.
This is one beta where the tester was only given so much to test unlike most betas where you are given free reign in the whole game. Because of this it seems some testers assume the whole game is a certain and I guess just don't bother reading patch notes and dev posts.
I don't recall SE taking stuff out that you would know about at this stage, adding more stuff in? Yes.
I never said I enjoyed shopping in UO. In fact, I hated it as much as I do shopping in real life. It was boring, tedious, and sometimes a complete waste of time if you were looking for a particular item, or price point.
I was simply remarking that no one complained in UO about it, it was just part of the game. Also that the purposed retainer system will take WAY less time than was spent in games like UO searching through house after house for items.
No one complained about it in UO because UO was basically it, as far as MMOs go. There was no alternative until EQ was released.
I don't see it as a waste of time. From what I understand the retainers will not only act as personal vendors, but also additional storage. And it's cheaper to add more retainers to your account than another actual character.
There will still be an action house but I'm guessing there will be a posting fee while setting up a personal vendor will be free, or at least less expensive than the auction house. Also it's already been stated that there will be a search function for the retainers, making it even easier.
Storage is one thing, but they could've just sold you more bank space for the same fee, but having a search function for retainers is basically like an auction house. The only difference is that you will probably have to physically run to the vendor to purchase the item. It's a needless step. I mean, think about it: on the auction house, you search for the item and purchase it. With retainers, you search for the item, run to where the vendor is and purchase it.
Yea and I'm not sure what the point is here? FFXIV will not be anything like this from what I've seen so far. But I completely agree with you, for games that are like you described, FFXIV not being one of those games.
How can you say that FFXIV will not be anything like that? Have you played the actual beta and have inside knowlege into how these retainers work? Or are you just guessing?
FFXIV is going to introduce a standard auction house and also the retainer system for player vendors. They way they've described it so far seems like it will only enhance the player-to-player trades, so yes, it does sound like a good improvement on the standard auction house trade system.
How exactly will it enhance player-to-player trades? You're not trading with a player but rather with an NPC.
The game is essentially bug-free, aside from few hiccups here and there...
The rest of the dev time will be used to polish the existing mechanics.
Don't assume this test will work out any other Beta test in the past. They've already done things differently because they let us test the Alpha version and because their in-house testing team has taken care of 95% of the glitches.
What does it matter if I tell ya'll though? You'll see what happens in the near future, lol
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I agree with the concept of retainers and the search feature to use these. Here's why:
1) Limits price gouging: With an AH system, those with enough money (notably the gil sellers) will buy out all the lower priced items either manually, or with a bot, and put them up for sale at exhobitant prices. With the source of the items spread out in a section, even if you can see what is for sale by using the search feature, you will still have to manually go to each and every shop to buy out all you want, and then attempt a price-gouging.
2) Forces AH houses down: Since price gouging will be hard, AH prices will have to compete with those players that have their items for sale at great prices, and will have to put it down to "Retainer Price + convinience fee", which can't be that high, or else people will just go to the retainer area and purchase it there.
3) Helps to severely limit gil-sellers: Anything that requires manual intervention is a great hindrance to gil sellers, who are all about the quickes way to make money vs time invested. If they see that they can't make an automated (easy) way to control the markets, they will avoid it, and instead will just have bots in certain areas farming for gil/items. With that in mind, I hope that SE puts in tools to allow the general populace to flag a person as a possible bot/gil seller. It will not be an automatic ban, but instead, the system records the amount of times the person was flagged for a period of a few days/weeks, and a GM reviews all the logs of that person once it passes a thresh-hold and passes verdict depending on what he sees. Always in the same area even though he severely outleveled everything around, playing for 20+ hours a day, only stopping for server downtime, and all loot sold and the gil sent to another account that has millions of gil and sends it to random people who have never once interacted with that account except for the one way funds transfer.... BAN/delete the farmer, seller and buyer.
So again, I agree with the retainers and its search feature. I feel it will do wonders for the market health of the game.
Comments
Im with you I hated it back in EQ... you could never find anything.... and sooooo laggy..I havent play other games that had personal shops so can really comment about the others but in FF they had the aution plus your personal shop. and that seemed to work so I think/hope they will have an Auction house plus retainers it wouldnt make much sense to have just retainers its just a pain in the ass running to all those people trying to find a sword upgrade..
None of the screens are impressive,idk maybe i am not easily pleased.The all blue scene is of course one colour,and there is no detail,so not a good screenshot to show off with.The other is a screen ofsame old landscape looking at again a non detail ,dithered castle in the backdrop.
The retainer system is brutal,of course it is already admitting,we will have storage woes,why can't they just give us our storage,it was a major fail of FFXI.The reason it is even worse now is because MOST players will utilize the retainers,which will mean we will see a Korean F2P look a like where by there is thousands of retainers all in one area selling,somewhat like STALLS in the Korean F2P games.Square knows this will be the case,so they are hinting at instances,real sad,if they know it is a bad design,then change it already.
Here is a thought ,a rather simple one,give us the same old Auction house,but give us tons of selling slots,example 100 or whatever,what is their problem?Why can't they just make it simple?Are they continually looking for ways to grind an extra buck out of us or something?
The battle system is still too vague,i think i will have to physically try it for myself.It looks to me to be non fluent or constructive to itself.The reason i say this ,is because in FFXI,aside from sammy of course,most players would gradually hit 100 tp at the same time,maybe a difference of 1 hit to wait to form a chain with another player.This system looks more like a sloppy solo system,guages will all be different ,players will show no thought ,just spam their skills when the guage hits a certain point.I was hoping to see a better system than FFXI,where by players were encouraged to chain with each other,in otherwords MORE team work.This may end up being the case,but on paper it looks more like FFXIII's system than FFXI's system.
I would have liked to see more influence on saving TP,and team work,example 200/300 tp had bigger rewards,maybe extra effects,chaining a weapon skill would benefit even more damage,instead of solo spamming,like it's a race ,rather than tactical.I would have liked to see TP saved after fights,after all it is a TACTICAL point,if there is an advantage to saving it,then it is up to the player.I guess the TP does not really stand for TACTICAL POINTS.Perhaps i am jumping the gun,maybe i will like the new system,so far it doesn't seem i will,especially since i did not like FFXIII's system one bit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Also what is this thing the game goes gold in August. Even single player games only go gold a few weeks before release, not a full whooping month. Especially if they belong to a large company. We are not 100 years ago, we can send data via telecomunication systems. Airfrieght transport for solid goods is very common, and you'd be suprised the distances trucks cover in a short period of time. The industrial world has a pretty impressive infrastructure going for it.
Also this is an MMO, I never seen an MMO that did not have atleast an impressive patch after you installed the CD. So even after an MMO goes live, a few build updates happen in the final weeks. Actually from what I heard MMO developers tend to burn a lot of midnight oil before release and even during the first month after release.
I also been a Beta Tester a few times, in the last 2 weeks of Beta (even when it was open), I seen dramatic, widescale modifications done to the game. Every single MMO I betaed in the past. I do not know S-E oil burning schedules and how much they are willing to tweak their game in the beta phase, but I doubt it is the finished product people are seeing now.
As long as the engine is ready until end of August, the rest can be tweaked later on,
I assume we all have a BIG update to download in September, with all the additions and changes from end of August to end of September included. Can't really avoid it lol
Nothing new about that, it happened to every other MMO, even WoW had a lot of patching on release and a far from flawless patch system.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The problem is the Auction House is a reward for little effort. I remeber some very good times in early EQ just sitting around buying and selling gear to make money. I wasn't particularly good at it, but I had fun. However, I can also accept that not everyone enjoys that kind of play just like everyone has something they do/do not like. Back to the AH, its just a game system more blatant than most. People put goods up and they get mailed gold, wonderful in theory. But in my feeling it frustrates the market of people who do like to buy and sell by taking much of the control out of their hands. Again this is good and bad, not saying its perfect either way, but that I think is one of the reasons that the personal shops exist.
I live in the US. I can't speak for every western culture, but I can say many of the ones I know about are not bartercentric economies, you go to the store you pay the price. Other cultures, the art of the deal is in full parade. In that sense controlling a well setup player shop, spending time searching and making good purchases, and then reselling for profit, can provide a fun experience for people who like that aspect. Frankly if you want other people to sell your goods, like an AH, you should pay a beastly commission, not just the standard trivial amount. So if you're lazy, or uninterested you can sell that but its not worth what you'd get making a little more effort, which is what most MMO's revolve around... theoretically. More effort, more reward.
Having said all that I've not really liked the way the player shops have been setup either, they're extremely distracting and reaaaaaally obnoxious most of the time. Still I think there's a good reason behind them, they just need perhaps some innovation on the idea.
Exactly, I just find it a little humourous that some people think games go through little change in the last 2 months, especially MMOs. I seen ground shaking patches developed on the last days of beta or just prior to release. That mega release patch is almost a given.
Actually I seen single player games have them too.. I remember my Xbox live dowloading an update for RDR when I poped the disk in for the first time on the day I got it, release day no less.
I've never seen an MMO change it's faults within the few months before launch. Normally you get stability and framerate fixes, but you don't get any of the design choices changed. So everything you experience atm is pretty much how it'll be, though probably with some polish and story stuff they've taken out. I really doubt the character creation will get any better than it is now for example.
In FFXI you could set up you character to sell goods (your character becomes the merchant). FFXI also was one of the first MMOs to use a sort of Auction House. To this day, I think FFXI has the best AH system of any MMO.
In the FFXI AH, the seller would set a minimum price for their items. Players would then "bid" on items not knowing the posted price. The AH would also keep records so players can look up the going price for items.
For example, a seller could put a sword up for 100gil. Another player comes along and notices the price has been 200gil and attempts to bid 150gil. Because 150 > 100, the sword sells for 150.
Smart players could easily play the market and earn quite a bit of gil quickly. For example, in one town, I noticed the going price for a specific low-level piece of equippment was 1000 gil. I also knew I could buy that very same item from a npc merchant in a remote part of town for 200 gil. I would buy a piece, put it up on AH and make a profit. That and transporting items between towns would provide some nice profits as well.
The retainer sounds like SE's way of improving FFXI system. You hire your retainer, set him/her up in the market, then go adventuring without having to have a second account on another computer or leaving your character logged int.
Right now i'd say the biggest issue isn't the retainer/AH, but how horribly inefficient and clunky switching between active/passive mode is.
Having to stop moving and stand there for a second to do so makes me think that future boss encounters will all be tank and spank again. I don't see how this system could be used to kite properly or move quickly to avoid certain boss spells/abilities. I hope i'm wrong though.
I'd agree with you if it wasnt the same clunky mechanic used in XI.
I don't know. I just feel like having an Auction house and these retainers is a waste. Especially since the retainers can only be in certain zones and those zones will be instanced. If there is going to be a search feature for the items that retainers sell, it's basically a clunkier auction house with buyout only.
Clunkier because you're probably going to have to physically go to the location of the shop to purchase the item. It will become a much more of a pain in the ass if these zones become instanced.
I would prefer a market system like in EVE but the auction house works pretty well in most games that do it right. I know a few people, myself included, who have made some decent gold in WoW. These retainers seem like a step back and remind me too much of F2P games. Hopefully there will be more info released on how they and the business districts work.
Its actually not that hard.... make all stuff available from retainers also available on the auction house.... but at a 10% extra charge, so people could choose wether they'd buy from AH or run to retainers. This way the function of retainers becomes more like extra storage
I personally think an auction house is very important, even more an auction house also accessible from out of game through mobile devices is the best.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Lol id never put my droid down...
It is a waste unless they're properly differentiated. The AH is convenient and costs you less in time and maintenance but should cost you more in currency because of associated "cuts." Personal shops take more time but less in cuts perhaps substituting some kind of upkeep, direct trades cost nothing but the most in time. I think its a legitimate system and would serve to keep a much larger section of people happy than just the AH alone.
I think AH's are one of those features that are basically expected now, much like guilds, some form of crafting, etc. If it was missing people wouldn't be able to see the rest of the game through the reflexive ranting and bashing. Most of the time they help facilitate player economies as well, so they are a good thing, but then again they are also another symptom of depersonalizing what should be a very social experience. On one hand people rant about "solo" mmog's and another they'd rant if the AH is missing despite the fact that would indeed force a different kind of grouping.
I know in WoW many people still used trade to buy and sell goods. I know I did because I was too cheap to pay the AH cut and prices most of the time, but I also had mods installed to search the AH for the items I was looking for, its just part of the way I enjoy the game, by finding good deals. It's about more options even if people don't use them all.
I dislike auction houses. Yes it is fast, and when you quickly need something it is nice to have, still it destroys the fun of shopping. (For both seller and buyer)
But todays games it is always about fast and easy.
I am pretty sure the retainers are also easy acces (something like AH), but maybe make it a little more fun for people who actually like to be more connected to the crafters and traders of the game.
Maybe you can buy the item in the "AH" thing and then need to walk to the stand to get the item. Then you see the shop, and maybe look what that person has more for sale. You browser through the stuff and you might discover it is selling more interesting stuff.
Also it would encourage me to look at the other stands, looking at AH is only good if you search for something, but I like to walk around shops and see what everyone has for sale. (I actually hate shopping in real life.)
I hope it works like that, for me it would be the best of two worlds.
I want to see their shops, yes even if it is in a crowded area, just like a real market, I guess.
I hope the shops have some stand around it, and you can decorate it in your own way, colors, and some items for display. Also the clothing and color style of the retainer.
Reading through this thread I couldn't help but to laugh. I remember back in UO where I would spend literally an entire day shopping. I'm talking 10-12 hours doing nothing in the game but going around to all of the different housing areas and looking at the vendors stationed at people's houses.
Marking the shops with a good price, or the really cool looking "malls" that were placed around the map. I can still remember one of my favorite places to go was a castle by the swamp area (not in T2A) which had great prices on the different colored armor and GM weapons, I would always go there to restock. It was very cool the way they had it set up with different "shops" inside the castle.
Anyway, I'm just rambling now. My point was that it's funny to see people bitching about maybe having to go to different instances in 1 enclosed area to find an item they're looking for.
Instant gratification is the name of the game now.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Yeah I remember doing that too. It was the same in SWg too, hours shopping and finding bargains!
I enjoyed shopping in UO as well. However, one huge defining factor was that shopping in UO was an adventure in itself as you were running from house to house out in the wilderness and were open to attack by monsters and other players. It was basically like a quest.
It is not the same as going to a certain, completely safe mind you, instance and running from player vendor to player vendor. It's not even about instant gratification. This is basically a less streamlined auction house. It's a pointless waste of time. Time better spent playing and exploring the actual game.
Besides, how can you even compare UO's vendors in player's houses with private shops? Or do you honestly think that you will see these castle malls that you so fondly remember? Download Battle of Immortals and run to Atlantis Square (should take you like 2 minutes at most). You'll see what a market district full of player vendors looks like. It's basically a zone that looks like of an endless sea of personal shops with names like "plz buy" or "<3 sexigurlz shop
" or shops like "mounts/pets" and when you open them, they have absolutely nothing to do with mounts and/or pets. Eventually, these play shops start to blend together, because they are so close to each other and I just want to go back to WoW with it's sane AH.
Anyway, I'm not sure if that's your idea of a good trade system but it definitely not my idea of one.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
What's wrong with the design choices? I'm quite pleased with them and especially with the character creation system. A huge improvement over FFXI, we could use more hair choices but I've already seen screens of hair I had not seen last month, so maybe there's more to be added.
This is one beta where the tester was only given so much to test unlike most betas where you are given free reign in the whole game. Because of this it seems some testers assume the whole game is a certain and I guess just don't bother reading patch notes and dev posts.
I don't recall SE taking stuff out that you would know about at this stage, adding more stuff in? Yes.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
The game is essentially bug-free, aside from few hiccups here and there...
The rest of the dev time will be used to polish the existing mechanics.
Don't assume this test will work out any other Beta test in the past. They've already done things differently because they let us test the Alpha version and because their in-house testing team has taken care of 95% of the glitches.
What does it matter if I tell ya'll though? You'll see what happens in the near future, lol
I agree with the concept of retainers and the search feature to use these. Here's why:
1) Limits price gouging: With an AH system, those with enough money (notably the gil sellers) will buy out all the lower priced items either manually, or with a bot, and put them up for sale at exhobitant prices. With the source of the items spread out in a section, even if you can see what is for sale by using the search feature, you will still have to manually go to each and every shop to buy out all you want, and then attempt a price-gouging.
2) Forces AH houses down: Since price gouging will be hard, AH prices will have to compete with those players that have their items for sale at great prices, and will have to put it down to "Retainer Price + convinience fee", which can't be that high, or else people will just go to the retainer area and purchase it there.
3) Helps to severely limit gil-sellers: Anything that requires manual intervention is a great hindrance to gil sellers, who are all about the quickes way to make money vs time invested. If they see that they can't make an automated (easy) way to control the markets, they will avoid it, and instead will just have bots in certain areas farming for gil/items. With that in mind, I hope that SE puts in tools to allow the general populace to flag a person as a possible bot/gil seller. It will not be an automatic ban, but instead, the system records the amount of times the person was flagged for a period of a few days/weeks, and a GM reviews all the logs of that person once it passes a thresh-hold and passes verdict depending on what he sees. Always in the same area even though he severely outleveled everything around, playing for 20+ hours a day, only stopping for server downtime, and all loot sold and the gil sent to another account that has millions of gil and sends it to random people who have never once interacted with that account except for the one way funds transfer.... BAN/delete the farmer, seller and buyer.
So again, I agree with the retainers and its search feature. I feel it will do wonders for the market health of the game.