Possibly it could be a way to curtail the copy, paste and "edit" of correspondence? Ive seen some things posted that supposedly originated from one game company or another only to find out that content was heavily added too and things deleted. Not pointing to any particular post but we have all seen them. With the intense hatred some feel toward SOE im sure they (SOE) have had their share of such.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
SOE's position is nonsense, but that is no surprise.
Let's say I buy a toaster. It doesn't work, so I write the company and complain. They write back and say whatever. I take the toaster company's letter to me and post it on a website. There is absolutely nothing that makes that illegal. All of this talk of "private" conversations and legality is pure rubbish.
As usual, they just hate bad press. And they know almost no one is going to sue them over a videogame account. Even if someone did, they could not afford to maintain that suit for long. Plus, if the customer won, big deal here's a few bucks back you spent on the account.
They do this simply because they know they can. Best thing to do is not to buy their trash in the first place. It looks like most of the mmo market has already figured that out.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I think I actually met Brasse at an SOE fan faire back when I actually liked & avidly played EQ2. But anyways the SOE crew always had a sense of smugness about them that I didn't really care for. They expounded that their creative vission for the game was really the only one that mattered and they didn't take into account many of the ideas that were shared to them. So they generally treat their consumer in a passe fashion and it's starting to cost them.
As for a business if they want to create more negative press for themselves the best they can do is to continue on the path they are taking. Sure as a business they can refuse service to anyone they wish not to deal with. However, if they do this often enough they will find that pretty soon the shoe will be on the other foot. If they feel that policing the internet for "contraband" let them fiddle away as in the end it will be very counter productive for them.
SOE, SOE, who excatly is running the show over there? On what planet is it a good business idea to declare internet war on a segment of your customer base? A dwindling customer base at that. Just be thankful somebody took the time to say anything, anywhere about one of your poorly run and 3rd rate MMOs.
Oh no, I hope SOE don't ban me!!
Never mind, I just remembered I haven't played an SOE game in 6 years.
$OE news, I have finally gotten over the whole SWG thing finally and even deleted my characters with everything on them a year ago knowing I will never have back what I bought orginally not a cheap knockoff of WOW, Even when I did have a active forum account over there I got banned for posting old posts from the old SWG forums quite upset the forum mods and community. But oh well, knowing what grade a douchebags they are in many players eyes I have and will never touch another game from them again.
Well all I can say is SOE forums are always heavly moderated anyways. Threads get deleted all the time. And if you were to post a transcript even up on flames you would get a ban there as well.
I can tell you if you were to post your talk with a gm in lotro, yea your going to get the ban hammer as well.
I dont know any company that allows that type of behavior.
Seams to me somebody got themselves a ban and came over here with a bottle of whine, after clearly breaking some rules, and in what I read those folks got lots of warnings and still did it anyways. The way I see it, if you been wanred and continue to post stuff, its your own fault for getting a ban. Pure and simple.
*lol* this company is becoming more of a joke day by day. Guess what freaking Smedley no one in his right mind cares about our greedy bastardisationed company. The way I'm looking at Soe will never ever change so...
1. they are promising the world then failing bigtime in delivering a quality product
2. pissing of existing customers by changing the core of a game it happened to SWG, Everquest 2, Vanguard (burn in hell for that!) and even Everquest 1.
3. damage is already done and its their own fault. I'm glad customers are posting the obvious: bad customer service, endless greedy, crappy products
4. their forums aren't highly moderated they're just removing negativ feedback and then saying something like "thread got lost because of a forum update..."
One thing for sure if I would own a forum I'd tell those Soe employees to stfu they can delete, ban, moderate everything on their own forum but I wouldn't let them have a say on my one. This company was former viewed as the bigdog in the industry its unbelievable how you can screw up so many games in almost no time. Oh well and station cash did a good amount of damage also.
So Smedley if you are reading this....you $oe poorly run company can ban me, delete my accounts I couldn't care less haven't played your games since years because they are all CRAP like your non existent customer service.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
2. The privacy of correspondence between the customer and soe is meant for customer's benefit. If the customer waives their right to that privacy by posting the correspondence, then so be it. The same principle would apply if I have a private meeting with my doctor. I'm free to disclose what was said during that meeting, but the doctor is not. Its not like the customer is in a position to reveal soe company secrets, anyway.
3. I wonder if soe would be taking action if it reflected positivly towards them. Call me crazy, but something tells me they wouldn't.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Well all I can say is SOE forums are always heavly moderated anyways. Threads get deleted all the time. And if you were to post a transcript even up on flames you would get a ban there as well.
I can tell you if you were to post your talk with a gm in lotro, yea your going to get the ban hammer as well.
I dont know any company that allows that type of behavior.
Seams to me somebody got themselves a ban and came over here with a bottle of whine, after clearly breaking some rules, and in what I read those folks got lots of warnings and still did it anyways. The way I see it, if you been wanred and continue to post stuff, its your own fault for getting a ban. Pure and simple.
Not at all. But their way of conducting business is very poor and this is just an additional, and what I feel outrageous example of their business philosophy.
To give you an outline of what happened, they brought in a new Community Relations person for EQ (yeh I know that game is old). She tells the community of the changes she will be doing, and the Community agrees mostly with everything she wants to do but for one thing. She asked for feedback concerning the changes. She did not like the negative feedback. She and her team of moderators start to delete posts and lock threads that did not break any rules. Community's anger level increases. Said Community Relations leader calls many players D-Baggers. All heck breaks loose. Moderators from other SOE games come in and start locking even more threads or deleting them outright. Some players start to post their CS emails on ANOTHER website's forum that is in no way tied to SOE. SOE higher up comes in and bans players accounts for posting on that other website, then goes over to EQ2 and copies its forums rules and replaces the rules that were posted on EQ's forums. Then tries to say that these rules have always been in place.
It was a poor example of Sophomoric behavior on SOE's part. Maybe they have reconsidered their actions and realized that they did not conduct themselves in a business-like manner. I say this because this morning I saw one of the previously banned players post on the SOE official forums.
So no, I have not had any wine since the last wedding I went to, and I am not one of the banned players. I just felt that the whole, banning people, then changing the rules to justify the bannings, and then acting like said rules have always been in place was stupid and not a practise any company should use. Never mind the whole, "you are not allowed to share with the world what SOE sent to you in an email" is pretty outrageous.
It was a poor example of Sophomoric behavior on SOE's part. Maybe they have reconsidered their actions and realized that they did not conduct themselves in a business-like manner. I say this because this morning I saw one of the previously banned players post on the SOE official forums.
That is more likely that the ban was over. As I said before, you seriously jumped to a lot of wrong conclusions about something you knew little about.
Depending on the severity of an infraction, I believe a persons first ban is only a few days. SOE don't ban people for the fun of it and I bet those people who got banned for posting transcripts wouldn't go posting transcripts of any PMs they might of sent verbally abusing the mod team which also factor into getting banned. The "R E S P E C T" guideline of their forums include any private communications you have with another player or mod staff. I'm not saying that is what happened or was a factor but it IS possible and the fact is, no one but the person banned and the mod and admin know what has gone on in private communications or whether it helped lead to the person being banned.
That's really been my point all along. Other than what you can see from the outside looking in, you and no one else has ANY clue what actually all went down to cause these people to be banned.
And as to the rest of your post about the changes. I've been watching SOEs various forums and they have been making changes to ALL of their game's forums in order to streamline them and bring some uniformity to them all. In this way, I think it makes it easier for volunteer mods from one game's forum to help out on another forum because there are no new rules they have to learn, they are all the same. I know on the EQII forums I've seen some new mods running around that are from other games.
These also aren't changes Kiara (EQs new community relations admin who came from EQII which is the game I'd played and still follow) made the decision in making she's just the one to do the physical side of it I'm pretty sure of that. So, a lot of this hate toward her is really shooting the messenger. Back before Kiara was CRA for EQIIs forums, Gnobrin was the CRA and I believe his boss was Grimwell. Kiara moved into Gnobrin's position not Grimwell's so I know she isn't the be all end all of what happens with the forums. Just the one who ends up taking all the flak.
I'd also really like to see a link to her post where she calls the posters D-baggers cuz I think you're making that one up. Kiara was the CRA for EQIIs forums for at least 2 years and in that entire time she has never once made such a disparaging comment such as that. So, link please or it didn't happen, you're a liar and only posting libel to sensationalize the situation in your favor.
Eq 1 community > Eq 2 community they are very different so their can't be the same rules. A wise CM should understand that, Eq 1 is the game that made all these $$$oe bastards rich so they better show some respect.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Comments
Possibly it could be a way to curtail the copy, paste and "edit" of correspondence? Ive seen some things posted that supposedly originated from one game company or another only to find out that content was heavily added too and things deleted. Not pointing to any particular post but we have all seen them. With the intense hatred some feel toward SOE im sure they (SOE) have had their share of such.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
SOE's position is nonsense, but that is no surprise.
Let's say I buy a toaster. It doesn't work, so I write the company and complain. They write back and say whatever. I take the toaster company's letter to me and post it on a website. There is absolutely nothing that makes that illegal. All of this talk of "private" conversations and legality is pure rubbish.
As usual, they just hate bad press. And they know almost no one is going to sue them over a videogame account. Even if someone did, they could not afford to maintain that suit for long. Plus, if the customer won, big deal here's a few bucks back you spent on the account.
They do this simply because they know they can. Best thing to do is not to buy their trash in the first place. It looks like most of the mmo market has already figured that out.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I think I actually met Brasse at an SOE fan faire back when I actually liked & avidly played EQ2. But anyways the SOE crew always had a sense of smugness about them that I didn't really care for. They expounded that their creative vission for the game was really the only one that mattered and they didn't take into account many of the ideas that were shared to them. So they generally treat their consumer in a passe fashion and it's starting to cost them.
As for a business if they want to create more negative press for themselves the best they can do is to continue on the path they are taking. Sure as a business they can refuse service to anyone they wish not to deal with. However, if they do this often enough they will find that pretty soon the shoe will be on the other foot. If they feel that policing the internet for "contraband" let them fiddle away as in the end it will be very counter productive for them.
I think you got a pretty good responce.
SOE, SOE, who excatly is running the show over there? On what planet is it a good business idea to declare internet war on a segment of your customer base? A dwindling customer base at that. Just be thankful somebody took the time to say anything, anywhere about one of your poorly run and 3rd rate MMOs.
Oh no, I hope SOE don't ban me!!
Never mind, I just remembered I haven't played an SOE game in 6 years.
$OE news, I have finally gotten over the whole SWG thing finally and even deleted my characters with everything on them a year ago knowing I will never have back what I bought orginally not a cheap knockoff of WOW, Even when I did have a active forum account over there I got banned for posting old posts from the old SWG forums quite upset the forum mods and community. But oh well, knowing what grade a douchebags they are in many players eyes I have and will never touch another game from them again.
Well all I can say is SOE forums are always heavly moderated anyways. Threads get deleted all the time. And if you were to post a transcript even up on flames you would get a ban there as well.
I can tell you if you were to post your talk with a gm in lotro, yea your going to get the ban hammer as well.
I dont know any company that allows that type of behavior.
Seams to me somebody got themselves a ban and came over here with a bottle of whine, after clearly breaking some rules, and in what I read those folks got lots of warnings and still did it anyways. The way I see it, if you been wanred and continue to post stuff, its your own fault for getting a ban. Pure and simple.
*lol* this company is becoming more of a joke day by day. Guess what freaking Smedley no one in his right mind cares about our greedy bastardisationed company. The way I'm looking at Soe will never ever change so...
1. they are promising the world then failing bigtime in delivering a quality product
2. pissing of existing customers by changing the core of a game it happened to SWG, Everquest 2, Vanguard (burn in hell for that!) and even Everquest 1.
3. damage is already done and its their own fault. I'm glad customers are posting the obvious: bad customer service, endless greedy, crappy products
4. their forums aren't highly moderated they're just removing negativ feedback and then saying something like "thread got lost because of a forum update..."
One thing for sure if I would own a forum I'd tell those Soe employees to stfu they can delete, ban, moderate everything on their own forum but I wouldn't let them have a say on my one. This company was former viewed as the bigdog in the industry its unbelievable how you can screw up so many games in almost no time. Oh well and station cash did a good amount of damage also.
So Smedley if you are reading this....you $oe poorly run company can ban me, delete my accounts I couldn't care less haven't played your games since years because they are all CRAP like your non existent customer service.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Couple of points:
1. The EULA is not a legally binding agreement.
2. The privacy of correspondence between the customer and soe is meant for customer's benefit. If the customer waives their right to that privacy by posting the correspondence, then so be it. The same principle would apply if I have a private meeting with my doctor. I'm free to disclose what was said during that meeting, but the doctor is not. Its not like the customer is in a position to reveal soe company secrets, anyway.
3. I wonder if soe would be taking action if it reflected positivly towards them. Call me crazy, but something tells me they wouldn't.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Not at all. But their way of conducting business is very poor and this is just an additional, and what I feel outrageous example of their business philosophy.
To give you an outline of what happened, they brought in a new Community Relations person for EQ (yeh I know that game is old). She tells the community of the changes she will be doing, and the Community agrees mostly with everything she wants to do but for one thing. She asked for feedback concerning the changes. She did not like the negative feedback. She and her team of moderators start to delete posts and lock threads that did not break any rules. Community's anger level increases. Said Community Relations leader calls many players D-Baggers. All heck breaks loose. Moderators from other SOE games come in and start locking even more threads or deleting them outright. Some players start to post their CS emails on ANOTHER website's forum that is in no way tied to SOE. SOE higher up comes in and bans players accounts for posting on that other website, then goes over to EQ2 and copies its forums rules and replaces the rules that were posted on EQ's forums. Then tries to say that these rules have always been in place.
It was a poor example of Sophomoric behavior on SOE's part. Maybe they have reconsidered their actions and realized that they did not conduct themselves in a business-like manner. I say this because this morning I saw one of the previously banned players post on the SOE official forums.
So no, I have not had any wine since the last wedding I went to, and I am not one of the banned players. I just felt that the whole, banning people, then changing the rules to justify the bannings, and then acting like said rules have always been in place was stupid and not a practise any company should use. Never mind the whole, "you are not allowed to share with the world what SOE sent to you in an email" is pretty outrageous.
That is more likely that the ban was over. As I said before, you seriously jumped to a lot of wrong conclusions about something you knew little about.
Depending on the severity of an infraction, I believe a persons first ban is only a few days. SOE don't ban people for the fun of it and I bet those people who got banned for posting transcripts wouldn't go posting transcripts of any PMs they might of sent verbally abusing the mod team which also factor into getting banned. The "R E S P E C T" guideline of their forums include any private communications you have with another player or mod staff. I'm not saying that is what happened or was a factor but it IS possible and the fact is, no one but the person banned and the mod and admin know what has gone on in private communications or whether it helped lead to the person being banned.
That's really been my point all along. Other than what you can see from the outside looking in, you and no one else has ANY clue what actually all went down to cause these people to be banned.
And as to the rest of your post about the changes. I've been watching SOEs various forums and they have been making changes to ALL of their game's forums in order to streamline them and bring some uniformity to them all. In this way, I think it makes it easier for volunteer mods from one game's forum to help out on another forum because there are no new rules they have to learn, they are all the same. I know on the EQII forums I've seen some new mods running around that are from other games.
These also aren't changes Kiara (EQs new community relations admin who came from EQII which is the game I'd played and still follow) made the decision in making she's just the one to do the physical side of it I'm pretty sure of that. So, a lot of this hate toward her is really shooting the messenger. Back before Kiara was CRA for EQIIs forums, Gnobrin was the CRA and I believe his boss was Grimwell. Kiara moved into Gnobrin's position not Grimwell's so I know she isn't the be all end all of what happens with the forums. Just the one who ends up taking all the flak.
I'd also really like to see a link to her post where she calls the posters D-baggers cuz I think you're making that one up. Kiara was the CRA for EQIIs forums for at least 2 years and in that entire time she has never once made such a disparaging comment such as that. So, link please or it didn't happen, you're a liar and only posting libel to sensationalize the situation in your favor.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
If someone made you rich, you go back to them for more money, not to show your respect. We are talking busines here, thats what you do.