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An Eve players thoughts on Dust
First I’d like to say “Hi” to everybody, as this is my first post here.
I was writing this as a response to a thread here, but it’s sort of turned unto what I suspect will be a multi-post monster, so I’ll post it as a new thread.
I’ve been playing Eve for over six years now and have been keeping a slightly more than just interested eye on the development of Dust. If implemented well I think it could well be the step that moves MMO gaming to the next level.
As has already been mentioned, the first stage of implementing the Dust – Eve gaming interaction has been implemented into Eve, the ability for Eve players to interact with planets by setting up what are in effect mining and production colonies.
At this time they are purely a part of the ‘industrial play’ side of the game. They cannot be attacked; you cannot even undermine another player’s colony by dropping one of your own in close proximity.
Eve players do not land on the planets; we can only interact by way of a planetary interaction UI, so we do everything remotely from space, and as I understand things that are how it will stay.
So, how will Dust and Eve interact? That’s the golden question I ask, which at this time only CCP know for certain, and there is a good chance that even they don’t know for certain yet *grins*
Here is a suggestion as to how I think it may be implemented. Please, be aware that this is all it is at the moment, my speculations. But they are based on bits and pieces I have picked up on, my knowledge of the game, and are based on actual Eve game systems already in place.
Phase 1
Reinforcing the colony
This is based directly on current POS (Player owned structure) warfare in Eve and the actual aim of which is to set a timer running for when the actual battle takes place.
This will be 100% Eve placed and will involve a colony that is to be attacked in Dust being bombarded from space, until its defences are knocked into what is known as ‘Reinforced state.’
Basically then, the colony shuts down, there is little the owner can do with it, but it is 100% safe from any further attack.
This is a mechanism that is used very well in Eve to stop POS from being ‘rolled over’ without the defender being able to mass a defence. Once the Colony goes into reinforced, a timer starts counting down. Depending on how much fuel is stored for defence, this can be for up to 24 hours. Which is more than enough time for the defender to mount a counter attack on the bombarding fleet, or put out a call on the Dust interface for ‘ground pounders’ to defend the colony.
Phase 2
The Assault
Part of the back story already put in game is that Dust players will be members of a clone army. So it can be assumed that the defender will have to have some sort of cloning facility in their colony for defending troops to ‘spawn’ into and that the attacker will need a ship with a cloning facility, and facilities to deliver the troops planet side.
Again this is using a variation of game systems in place, as several Capitol ship types can carry clone vats for Eve pilots to quickly jump into and help their Corporation (guild) mates.
Once delivered to the ground, then the battle is fought as a FPS within the Dust game.
From the Dust players perspective I guess that what they will do is log onto Dust where they will go to a lobby, which list all battles due to be fought, then they can pick which side they want to fight for, depending on rewards being offered and battles available when they are on-line.
Will there be a decent number of battles available?
The only real answer to that is “how long is a piece of string?” That I think will be the main factor in Dust succeeding or failing. It’s going to be a fine line that CCP needs to get balanced right. Dust players don’t want to be logging on and seeing empty battle lists and Eve players don’t want to be putting in a hell of a lot of effort to only see a couple of Dust players fighting the ground action.
At this time CCP have been firm in stating that while they do not dismiss the idea of a PC version, Dust is firmly slated for the PS3 and 360 consoles. I suspect that the PC version will be a back up in the case that the console version does not get a big enough take up.
One of the foundations of Eve is team play. The Corporation (Guild) is the heart of doing anything big in Eve. I more than suspect that this will be the same with Dust, where players will be actively encouraged to join their own mercenary corporations to fight together, which will also encourage already established groups in other games to move across to Dust.
Also, there will be a lot of Eve players, like myself, who have consoles, who will dual play. I suspect that some of the better Eve mercenary Corps will be already keeping a close eye on how things are developing with a view to having their own ‘Ground pounder’ wing. So it’s not a too farfetched thought to see (Name dropping time here) REPO Industries, for example, being hired not only to beat a colony into reinforced mode, but they will also be supplying the troops to finish off the job too.
As I said at the start of this tome, I am quite excited about the Dust – Eve interaction. Yes, there is a lot that can go wrong, but if it works right, then I think that there are genuine exciting times ahead for many gamers who play different styles of games as we all come together to fight for the cause we have chosen to support.
Comments
Alot to take in wow! But since you say its going console will the PC version have a monthly subscription then? Or just retail and free to play?
P.S. Nice in depth post! Found out CCP is making this and your post makes me want to find out more thanks!
As I said, though I did say a lot *grins* CCP has been firm in stating that while they will not totally throw out the idea of a PC version, they arenot planing to support the PC version of Dust, just the PS3 and 300 consoles at the moment. My guess is that they will keep a PC version as a reserve in the case that the consol versions don't take off.
Pricing wise, little has been said at the moment, it's still too early in the development I guess. THough there have been hints that after buying the initial game it will be free to play. Though that may be a case of wishful thinking on so posters part whos thread I read.
Thanks for the comments, but again, remember that it's mainly speculation on my part, granted based on me having a decent idea of how CCP do things and a few educated guess based on current ingame (Eve) mechanics. But they are still just guess work on my part.
My main advice is, unfortunatly, to "wait and see." I'm guessing that Dust is still a good year away yet. However, perhaps in a few month time we may see some sort of beta testing that is linked in with the main Eve test server. Once that happens then we will start to get a much better idea of how things are actually hang together.
I have been looking forward for DUST to go online as well. I'm mostly thrilled about the possibility to finally be able to convince my old guild mates to try out EVE or DUST in this case. They are mostly old ground pounders that have difficulties not being a character with solid ground under their feets.
I guess it's still to early to tell just how integrated the two games will be? I only see some great potential for making EVE an even greater game, but then again we have to wait and see.
Something I would really like to see is added warfare options that can benefit both EVE and DUST players as well as leaving the old options in place. For example rather than blowing up an enemy POS (the old fashion way...) you have the option to land a team of DUST marines that will try to take (steal?) the POS from the inside, with the end goal being to take the POS more or less intact. Perhaps even putting the current (useless) soldier/marine units to use, just load up a POS with a number of marines that then can act as NPC defenders until the owner can deploy their own DUST players to defend the POS.
It would perhaps be cool to expand that to capital ships as well? DUST players forming a boarding party trying to kill the pilot from the inside!
However, I'm also a bit concerned about some of the design decisions they have made. One being the focus on game consoles! MMO games are for PC's and I don't think that will change in a forseable future!
Another thing is the FPS game style! So far all attempts to make a FPS MMO has failed rather badly, at least to my knowledge! I think part of that is a technical issue! One real time FPS MMO player consumes considerable more network bandwidth than a traditional turn based MMO player, which will severly limit the size of battles. If there are set limits to battles then I'm afraid I can't call it a MMORPG any longer! Also any form of lag in a real time FPS will make it unplayable, a traditional turn based MMO can tolerate lag to some degree.
All in all I do really hope that DUST 514 will be a success. That said I kind of wished that they would use the same type of game play as EVE does (skill based, player made equipment, etc.).
Sorry epf01, but most of the so-called failed MMOFPS games didn't fail due to any lack of quality. I played Planetside, Tabula Rasa etc. Great games but failed by their developers (lack of content or very bad balance design) They mostly fail (imo) due to the inherent niche nature of PVP only games.
Thankfully EVE's crowd are quite open to this so I think it will be ok.
Judging from the trailers so far, I don't think there will be a content problem and quality wise I trust CCP will deliver a polished game, if a little.. inexperienced in the FPS world.
having a cap on pvp battles is nothing new in MMOs so I wouldn't worry about it, you need to balance the sides when you're fighting over 1 map) Organised PVP in pretty much every closed arena game is equal sides, MAG did about 200v200 if i remember correctly, but I doubt DUST will need huge numbers to represent elite strike teams.
Also about lag, that just depends on how forgiving the weapons are, you could have sniper rifles be high rate of fire for example. Lag compensation is pretty good these days too.
Great ideas OP, I hope you've copied your posts to the official forums too
I can definitely see a DUST expansion that opens up stations for assault.
<Welcome to my world>
All good ideas, I for one am excited, but I worry over several shortfalls that could come in with the way the devs have been talking, so far it only sounds like combat will be in planet with "ground pounders" and I doubt if we wil leven be able to see combat from eve (even though that would be awesome) Another idea I would support would be a "hauling" bay for like soliders only and so in game you actually spawn on the transport vehicle and have to experience the riggers of deep space transport into a planet, of cpurse these transports can only move within a system and the mere presence of pilots inside would inhibit stargate use (cause I am sure something woudl go wrong fu sent them though intact and moving. From here a player loads down the troops into the battle navigating intense fights while in battle the enemy with sufficent fire power can destroy this transport and stop reinforcements. Now one sided batttles arent fun but as for caps I think we need them to help control lag so we dont get 400-500 people on one game and the server crashes, as that happens frequently in mag. As what I hear is alot of talk of eve and dust interaction I hear no speculation on what rewards we can offer them or what dust will play like. I for one think they might implement a rank system which allowes more....seasoned clones access to better weapons kinda like wow players in wintergrasp (but more indepth). THough I still hope that I cna take my battle ship park it planet side and provide deep space protection, I knwo what a railgun is and i know what a large one could do to a planet force, this would encourage even more space combat for control of the space surrounding the planet in question making for more intense battles, and for in dust to look up and see how the space battle is engaging, and watch as a battle ship be destroyed fall to peices to the planet and if its big enough cause impact damage to where ever it falls in good or bad spot and become part of the enviroment...for that fight. Also maybe modules for poses that are close enough to assist the fight? Also being able to take out a capsulteer from the side? again make the space fights alot more intense. Also deep space lasers becoming targets that the player builds that can be taken over control, destroyed, even salvaged to make other buildings in game. Also for in game interactivity why not add features where the envirement is fully interactive, make fox holes dig trenches, cut down trees and make road blocks, let the human mind be the only limit. also make gravity subjective to the planet itself, bigger planets u weigh more and can jump less while smaller planetrs you nearly lift off. also dont forget these are human, make fatigue and rations needs, cant expect a solider to be 100% all the time hed die of that. But if i go on any more I will set up some more goals and all of this would make one kick ass game but would take a long time to code.
I play eve since may 2003, I am not a player would buy dust514. It more like the an other WOW only better and therefor not on pc. And most players do not play on pc and on a console. Console games are much faster.
The older players from eve above 35 do not even have a console machine it more a kids thing.
So if it comes not pc it will not be bought at all.
AK
As eve player I wont play this game. Dont even like shooters much.
Not quite true in certain respects.
SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) uses a FPS format for the space side of their game and it's been around for a few years. The game play for the space side of that game is pretty close to a stand-alone game in its own rights. You buy and sell things from space on the ground and construct/enhance things there but all skills, all drops you'd need, etc. That is gotten from space.
Being as it is part of an MMO already, it can be viewed as a precursor to such a step as what CCP is doing, albeit a reversal - ground combat vs space, but it does have that style of functionality to it and has been running as such for a number of years.
I play EVE and I find the notion of Dust to be intreguing but I also am wondering how it will work out. This forum area is a good sign that a hunch of mine is correct: Dust isn't a standard FPS. It's a MMO that uses FPS interaction mechanics. As such, your typical FPS player won't find it all that attractive but your MMO players...
*IF* it is done well. *IF* it has the MMO staples well entrenched. *IF* they don't go overboard with a "game store"... It might just be a new step in what can be accomplished with respect to the MMO genre.
1. i got family on eve. we talk about what could and couldnt be possible.
2. im a ps3 player.
now there are things that must be admitted up front:
1. trailers are a horrible way to figure out what a game is like. just because the trailer is intense, doesnt mean the game will be. usually quite the opposite. the more intense the trailer, the worse the game. i refuse to take in any info from the dust trailer other then the fact that the "multiverse" is large. ok cool.
2. having seen other mmos... both on console and on pc, i have come to believe that the game will be a series of instances, quite possibly "easy mode" instances vs ai and "hardcore" instances vs players. now skew those across different number sizes and "map" types. odds are there will be a ton of small to medium sized battles taking place constantly. maybe we might get a show piece once a week... or month. a la rift.
3. the grind factor= eve is a grind. in fact most mmos compares to damn near all console games are a different species. most console gamers have no clue what a real grind is. so faced with a game like Dust, that could be a problem. most of the console fps community is "unfit for duty" both in terms of organization, dedication and morale. there are some out there that can handle the long term and the short term aspects of dust, but not many. the majority of the console community buys a game on monday and wants to be max level with all unlocks by the following friday. dust could cause a lotta those types of players to fall off over the first few months once they realize they arent gonna be "leet" fast enough.
4. money = console players, esp fps games the likes of which ive seen, are by and large... cheap. and i mean stingy cheap.they want new maps, new guns, new crap all the time for no money. anything goes wrong with the game... they want more dlc for no money. this doesnt include the kids who dont actually have money. well money that their parents didint give em. now there might be a huge gulf in the community when it comes to online microtransactions, cuz frankly few are gonna have the money to throw around for the big toys. and then comes the whining... a cat like me can drop 1k into a game and not miss it. that might fall under the "imbalance" or "op" catagory to some of the cats who dont have the dollars to spend. time will tell.
how will this all add up? well it could be a huge problem = hundreds of non miced non team players all running around trying to level up while ignoring the world around them and complaining about those of them that actually have spare change to buy new toys.
if there is no way for the organized teams of players to actually get a grip on the game and run stuff without it turning into 1 step forward 3 steps back... then i foresee a short life for this product.
peace
B
I have an EVE account but didn't much like it. Dust 514 seems very interesting to me however and as of right now I will be buying it (though a lot can change between now and then). One thing that really sounds great is having both games interacting with each other. Can't wait to have a lot more info on the game though.
Been playing eve since the start 2003, still do, and have a background at playing doom 1-3, unreal, castle wolf was the last one. After some net, and many lan games I cant say I have any fun in any fps game
I did try to play fps on a net cafe for 3mounts back and had more fun shooting at cars to see how the graphics was, than i was jumping around shooting players. I guess i am to old, or just dont care about fps anymore.
- But, if there any point to it, and a death penaty that counts, not just endless spawn of players, and ending up shooting the same dude a millions times..... Then, I might get into the action.
But, I`ll l buy it, and test it out for fun no matter.