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StarVault is billing any closed accounts-act of fraud
drel
Member Posts: 918
As with other posts, I want to bring to anyone's attention StarVault is billing any closed accounts. Please be sure to call your credit card company to put a "block" on any future charges that StarVault may attempt charge against you. This is just fraud.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Did you go to "My Account" and chose "do not renew" or "cancel subscription"?
I'm not saying you should have to, but there is a difference between closing your account and ignoring your account.
P.S. In light of http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3598186#3598186, http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3616121#3616121, http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3591119#3591119, "I stopped keeping track months ago and didn't even know it was released" doesn't fly in your case.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3616121#3616121
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3591119#3591119
Where's the proof?
Please focus all discussion about the StarVault ninja-billing practice in the existing thread found here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/284437/Free-month-up.html
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Until/ unless he answers my question, he may be making a different allegation.
Multiple threads have been deleted on the official forums related to the ninja-billing. Select others have been locked. The link I provided above is the main thread for discussing this matter on MMORPG.COM
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think the people who got billed were the ones who left, ignored teh 'Subscription change' Email they were sent out and then wonder why they got billed.
I only cancelled cos i do not have enough RL time to play this game sadly
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
Umm.....sure. Links or it's not true.
Currently Playing: DAOC Uthgard
Previously Played: UO, DAOC, Shadowbane, AC2, SWG, Horizons, COX, WOW, EQ2, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, Vanguard, Rift, SWTOR, ESO, GW2.
Plenty of links to be had. Use search. Even the supporters of SV are admitting that this is a very bad practice. Again though.. simply read the linked thread.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I just browsed through the last 3 pages worth of threads and didn't see any. If you have some feel free to link them.
If this was truly an issue, the forums would be in an uproar.
Sorry, no.
Currently Playing: DAOC Uthgard
Previously Played: UO, DAOC, Shadowbane, AC2, SWG, Horizons, COX, WOW, EQ2, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, Vanguard, Rift, SWTOR, ESO, GW2.
Again... read the linked thread
There are at least 3 links there to people complaining about this on the main forums. In the subscribers section so they were obviously billed. In addition I have seen multiple threads deleted.
If you refuse to follow the links provided and then complain that you cannot find any discussion on the topic I don't know what else to tell you man...
Edit to add:
Better hurry though.. just noticed that at least one of those 3 linked threads has already been deleted...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Strange. I cancelled my account (only to change the billing info after the subscription ended) and I didn't get charged... curious. I wonder why only certain people would be charged after cancelling their subscriptions. I'm gonna call BS and say they never cancelled the subscription, only they never opted to subscribe (which they didn't know was enabled by default). It is and it isn't Star Vault's fault, since they shouldn't have set it to auto-renew, but they did inform everyone that they would be doing that. To say that they're charging people who actually cancelled though is just BS. No one else I know has had an issue.
But those links are linking to MMORPG threads.
what teh other dude is saying is that if this was the big issue those three MMORPG links are stating then the entire SV Forums would be in uproar about them.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
Go to the support section. It is filled with them. People getting billed too soon, getting billed once and then 7 days later, people wanting to pay but not being able to. The billing mess goes both ways. I think they just didn't know what they were doing or outsourced it to someone that didn't know what they were doing. .There are long threads with MO supporters agreeing it is bad. I will post one.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I havent been billed.
These guys ignored the email SV sent and is now crying wolf over it.
Thank you for at least some clarification. Unless the OP comes back and clarifies, yours will have to remain the closest thing we will get to an answer.
Well it seems they are all "gone". You don't have to believe they were there but they were. Again read the thread Slapshot linked to that I started I explain what happened. It is a non issue for most people - only those that ordered a long time ago (early adopters) would be affected - and only if they do not use the e-mail they signed up for.
My problem is that it was handled poorly - and they even said they would address it so they knew it was an issue. . instead they ignored it and are dealing with the little fallout they have. . which is covered up by the masses saying it isn't true, it is their fault or that "every MMO does this" which they don't. This is my last post on this issue as it is going to go away eventually. . but do expect to hear a few more posts from people who see charges on their CCs for a game they preordered over a year ago and forgot about after trying the beta etc. Since they never signed up for a sub. it will happen. . I just need to let it go since there is no point in trying to get the facts out when it affects so few and no one bothers reading what it is really about.
Don't early adopters always get shived though
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Thank you Aethaeryn. I know you like the game and still subscribe to it.. so I hope your words will carry weight with others. I also hope this finally puts to bed any debate about "censorship" on the SV forums. Yes.. it is their forums and they have the right to delete every single post on it, but in the past there have been those who claimed this didn't happen. In this case it is happening on a widespread basis and I am glad you have called it out. This ninjabilling issue will be a topic for the month ahead as the charges show up during the monthly billing cycles of customer's cards.
As far as billing closed accounts. I believe the OP meant that he bought the game a long time ago and never subscribed to it. As others have said.. perhaps he can clarify. If he is saying that he manually switched it to DO NOT RENEW and got billed that would indeed be a new topic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Except they didn't inform everyone. They sent an email from newsletter@starvault.com or something like that. Do you know how many messages I get every month from old games? AoC... DDO.. WAR...
Was the email entitled :URGENT CHANGES TO YOUR ACCOUNT?
No...
Even if it was... it went to emails that were used one year ago.. many may have changed.. I know mine has.
And even if everyone GOT the message.. the simple fact is that you cannot unilatterally decide to sign people up for something they never agreed to.. and tell them if they object they can go change it. That is pure BS. The fault here is 100% StarVaults as there WAS NO WAY for these people to cancel the non-existant subscription when they stopped playing (there was no subscription area for 8-9 months). And since they never HAD a subscription why would they check back 10 months later to see if the company ninja-subscribed them?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Thats the kick-I never had an account, yet somehow got billed!
Lol? If you bought the game, you had an account. You had to create an account to access the store and buy it. That account was your game account - go figure.
nope-didn't buy the game either
Hey, hey, relax. I understand the frustration and I agree that it was a dick move on their part to set it to auto-subscribe since obviously not everyone wanted to subscribe. I also understand the kind of flooding some email inboxes go through and how easy it is to miss a single e-mail, or to intentionally skip one that doesn't seem urgent. However, what would you have had them do after they decided to auto-renew everyone? Call them on the phone and tell every person to watch out? E-mails are how these things are done. They did what they could to cover their asses after deciding to go with a shitty idea. It is what it is. People can call it fraud, like Drel, but they'd be wrong. His best option is to contact support and try to get a refund on the grounds that he never even logged in, or contact his CC company and get a chargeback.
So... how did they get your credit card info? Something here isn't adding up. Either you're the most thoughtless troll out there or I'm missing something.
You had to either buy the game, or create an account with the intent to buy it if you gave them your billing details. There is absolutely no way that they guessed your billing info and added it to their list of subscribers. What are you not telling us or forgetting? Did you join during the open beta period and fill out the billing info? That would be plausible I guess, but you would have never even had the first month as you didn't own a copy of the game -- so there's no reason to continue a subscription that never existed.
What would you call it if a company subscribed you to a product you never agreed to.. against it's own Terms of Service? It's not an honest mistake.. It's purposeful.. So if not fraud.. what would you call it?
As for what I would have had them do? Thats simple.. set anyone who didn't agree to their new TOS to DO NOT RENEW. Loo at it this way.. anyone actualy PLAYING the game would have to agree to the new TOS anyhow.. so the only ones set to DO NOT RENEW would be those not playing the game....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I would call it an asshole move on their part. Legally, they'd be covered as they did inform everyone of their intentions through e-mails and announcements on the site.
Again, I agree with you. I think the auto-subscribe idea was complete garbage designed to successfully get a few more bucks out of those who didn't want to pay it or had forgotten about it entirely. It's pure shit, no doubt about it. I'm not even defending their decision on that because doing so would be ridiculous. I'm just saying that it wasn't fraud. It was another case of a company fucking over its customers to make money.
In order to prove fraud legally the case has to meet five criteria:
(1) a false statement of a material fact - They never lied about anything -- and did (albeit shittily) inform their customers of what to expect.
(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue - Ties in to the first point. Nothing untrue was stated.
(3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim - You can say they wanted to trick people into it , you'd probably be right, but there is no way to really prove it.
(4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement - Given.
(5) injury to the alleged victim as a result. - Given.
I realize that people on these forums generally mean fraud in layman's terms. Some of them, however, are looking at it legally as a potential case against Star Vault, which they could never win. Just wanted to sort of clear that up as I'm sure a lot of people think that the law has been broken here, which it has not. Also, I should point out that this is according to US law. I have no idea how it works in Sweden.