Why I am not playing FFXIV. Emotional scarring left by FFXI.

antilegit

A look on FFXI.  The issue has been brought up since FFXIV is launching soon.  Now that I look back on it, FFXI was an abnormally horrid experience.  I probably wouldn't play FFXIV because beneath the pretty pictures and sweet music, there lies the sewers we call customer service.

How FFXI scarred people:

Section I.  Bad game mechanics.

1. Level gap within a party was roughly 1 or less.  This meant you can't play with friends or that  you might wander for DAYS before you find a public party.  

2. Many characters were just useless late game.  Monk/Dragoon/Thief/Ranger, basically all physical damage dealers were useless in boss hunts.

3. If you did not buy an extra character to hold your stuff, you couldn't craft.  This may not be a big deal in games with micro-transactions where this is intentional but FFXI was a subscription game.  

4. Repetition. 

A. 0 character movement (as in moving left or right) for most character classes.  There was 1 puller who moved, the other 5 party members did not need to move at all.  

B. Same battle sequence used for the whole day.  A party would choose a battle sequence within the first 5-10 minutes of play.  After that, the EXACT same sequence would be used for the rest of the day.  Sometimes 8-10 hours without change.

C. You could play the game blind-folded for 95% of the time.  My friend watched tv with the client windowed and did not need to look to play.  

5. Lack of customization.

A. No skill choices.  Only class choices.

B. Equipment stats/effects had no fluctuation whatsoever.

 

Section II.  The bad customer service.

1. Accounts could not be deleted properly. <--- especially important

The problem lay in 2 facts:

A. Characters would be preserved for 6 months free of charge.

B. Deleting all your characters and preventing yourself from playing did not preventing SquareEnix to charge you for just having the account.

Result: You got charged for having an account that could not be used.  SquareEnix got sued for this and lost.  Unfortunately, they did not refund any player, they only changed their policy.

2. The Japanese players had 6-7 months access before non-Japanese players.  

A. Non-Japanese players could not make money in crafting since earlier crafters could craft better items with the same materials.  Non-Japanese players saw no hope in making money from crafting until after about 2 months of losing a LOT of money.

B. Japanese players had a thief sub-class exploit that allowed some classes to do 3-4x more damage than after the patch.  The exploit lasted all the way up to a month before North American release.  

C. Japanese players had less competition when they farmed their rare items.  

3. The servers were in Japan so NA players could not fight popular bosses when a Japanese player was present. 

bleyzwun

I think it would be better to see what happens with FFXIV before judging the whole game on your FFXI experience.

alpheus

OP's chosen nickname says is all for me.  (even if I do agree with him on certain points)

The_Grump

Originally posted by antilegit

A look on FFXI.  The issue has been brought up since FFXIV is launching soon.  Now that I look back on it, FFXI was an abnormally horrid experience.  I probably wouldn't play FFXIV because beneath the pretty pictures and sweet music, there lies the sewers we call customer service.

How FFXI scarred people:

Section I.  Bad game mechanics.

1. Level gap within a party was roughly 1 or less.  This meant you can't play with friends or that  you might wander for DAYS before you find a public party.

2. Many characters were just useless late game.  Monk/Dragoon/Thief/Ranger, basically all physical damage dealers were useless in boss hunts.

3. If you did not buy an extra character to hold your stuff, you couldn't craft.  This may not be a big deal in games with micro-transactions where this is intentional but FFXI was a subscription game.  

4. Repetition. 

A. 0 character movement (as in moving left or right) for most character classes.  There was 1 puller who moved, the other 5 party members did not need to move at all.  

B. Same battle sequence used for the whole day.  A party would choose a battle sequence within the first 5-10 minutes of play.  After that, the EXACT same sequence would be used for the rest of the day.  Sometimes 8-10 hours without change.

C. You could play the game blind-folded for 95% of the time.  My friend watched tv with the client windowed and did not need to look to play.  

5. Lack of customization.

A. No skill choices.  Only class choices.

B. Equipment stats/effects had no fluctuation whatsoever.

 

Section II.  The bad customer service.

1. Accounts could not be deleted properly. <--- especially important

The problem lay in 2 facts:

A. Characters would be preserved for 6 months free of charge.

B. Deleting all your characters and preventing yourself from playing did not preventing SquareEnix to charge you for just having the account.

Result: You got charged for having an account that could not be used.  SquareEnix got sued for this and lost.  Unfortunately, they did not refund any player, they only changed their policy.

2. The Japanese players had 6-7 months access before non-Japanese players.  

A. Non-Japanese players could not make money in crafting since earlier crafters could craft better items with the same materials.  Non-Japanese players saw no hope in making money from crafting until after about 2 months of losing a LOT of money.

B. Japanese players had a thief sub-class exploit that allowed some classes to do 3-4x more damage than after the patch.  The exploit lasted all the way up to a month before North American release.  

C. Japanese players had less competition when they farmed their rare items.  

3. The servers were in Japan so NA players could not fight popular bosses when a Japanese player was present. 

None of this is deniable if you played FFXI at any point from it's American launch to 2008. Well, except for the level disparity in parties: it was 3 and not 1. After that, S-E did a very poor job at addressing these problems because they follow their plan, both for good and for ill. While the Fields of Valor update helped a great deal, it was far too little too late and FFXI can leave an incredibly bitter taste in one's mouth. What's worse and not on the above list is that they did immersion the wrong way, so much so that you had to meta-game to find quest givers and to remember what to do in quests because there was not only no indication who was a quest giver at any point in time but the quest log was incredibly poor as well.

The OP has incredibly sound concerns about FFXIV because of their experience with FFXI and I experienced this as well, from 2006-2010. Sure, plenty of people have absolutely fabulous experiences with FFXI but there were far more people who felt left behind. This was not just due to the game mechanics but the Japanese being so much further ahead of the curve than their Western counter-parts. But, of course, that isn't completely a bad thing: players need to meta-game to not get lost and if the Japanese folks hadn't written guides there would have been no Western playerbase, period.

antilegit

my arranged party was STRICT.  our level gap was less than 0.1 levels for 2 months straight.

If i ever did a simple quest on my own for items or gold or something, they made me die for the sake of the gap.

Bloodaxes

Didn't level sync fixed the level gap between players?

Hyanmen

Well ya, this is WHY IM NOT PLAYING A BLIZZARD PRODUCT AGAIN:

 

In 2004, the lag was horrible. The servers crashed and there were many maintenances. Lot of things didn't work. 

Thus, I no longer buy any Blizzard games. 2004 WoW gave me an emotional scar.

Kyleran

I always wondered why FFXI didn't do better in the west than it did and the OP  goes a long way  towards explaining why.

grafh

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Well ya, this is WHY IM NOT PLAYING A BLIZZARD PRODUCT AGAIN:

 

In 2004, the lag was horrible. The servers crashed and there were many maintenances. Lot of things didn't work. 

Thus, I no longer buy any Blizzard games. 2004 WoW gave me an emotional scar.

i see what your doing there.. hahahaha

Zookz

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Well ya, this is WHY IM NOT PLAYING A BLIZZARD PRODUCT AGAIN:

 

In 2004, the lag was horrible. The servers crashed and there were many maintenances. Lot of things didn't work. 

Thus, I no longer buy any Blizzard games. 2004 WoW gave me an emotional scar.

Most of the issues he had were ongoing problems and some still are. It's okay for someone to criticize your game. 

Hyanmen

Originally posted by Zookz

Most of the issues he had were ongoing problems and some still are. It's okay for someone to criticize your game. 

Of course, I just did the same. Is that wrong in your opinion?

TacotownFTW

The only FF game I've ever liked was FFIX for the PS One. After that I just gave up on them. I prefer more Wesrtern (not cowboys, I mean USA style) style games.

kickpuncher

Originally posted by antilegit

OP

 

its ok now, the evil game is gone and the FFXI/XIV  twins will never bother you again

Miffy

Yeh FF11 was crap, it didn't review well as proof but the fanbois will stick by anything. I remember coming back and they closed my account and I had to buy another box... like forget that. The game was really boring though cause it was just one long grind and you can't even jump. Frigging FF14 is the same thing but with better graphics.

kickpuncher

Originally posted by Miffy

Yeh FF11 was crap, it didn't review well as proof but the fanbois will stick by anything. I remember coming back and they closed my account and I had to buy another box... like forget that. The game was really boring though cause it was just one long grind and you can't even jump. Frigging FF14 is the same thing but with better graphics.

 

if people didnt hate the game i hate they must be fanbois

SlyGamer79

i had emo scarring from FF13 does that count ? lol

Giosync

I've been convinced, chances are, I won't be purchasing FFXIV any time soon.

Xzen

The difference in levels was handled by adding the level sync system, I played sice FFXI's release and a lot of your critisisms WERE valid but were later fixed. I stood at the bottom of Eldieme Necropolis for 6 months trying to get my coffer key for my AF peice and another 6 months to get into a level break party.... So yes They made some major mistakes but they have done an excelent job when it comes to fixing and learning from them.

gordunk

Originally posted by antilegit

A look on FFXI.  The issue has been brought up since FFXIV is launching soon.  Now that I look back on it, FFXI was an abnormally horrid experience.  I probably wouldn't play FFXIV because beneath the pretty pictures and sweet music, there lies the sewers we call customer service.

How FFXI scarred people:

Section I.  Bad game mechanics.

1. Level gap within a party was roughly 1 or less.  This meant you can't play with friends or that  you might wander for DAYS before you find a public party.  

2. Many characters were just useless late game.  Monk/Dragoon/Thief/Ranger, basically all physical damage dealers were useless in boss hunts.

3. If you did not buy an extra character to hold your stuff, you couldn't craft.  This may not be a big deal in games with micro-transactions where this is intentional but FFXI was a subscription game.  

4. Repetition. 

A. 0 character movement (as in moving left or right) for most character classes.  There was 1 puller who moved, the other 5 party members did not need to move at all.  

B. Same battle sequence used for the whole day.  A party would choose a battle sequence within the first 5-10 minutes of play.  After that, the EXACT same sequence would be used for the rest of the day.  Sometimes 8-10 hours without change.

C. You could play the game blind-folded for 95% of the time.  My friend watched tv with the client windowed and did not need to look to play.  

5. Lack of customization.

A. No skill choices.  Only class choices.

B. Equipment stats/effects had no fluctuation whatsoever.

 

Section II.  The bad customer service.

1. Accounts could not be deleted properly. <--- especially important

The problem lay in 2 facts:

A. Characters would be preserved for 6 months free of charge.

B. Deleting all your characters and preventing yourself from playing did not preventing SquareEnix to charge you for just having the account.

Result: You got charged for having an account that could not be used.  SquareEnix got sued for this and lost.  Unfortunately, they did not refund any player, they only changed their policy.

2. The Japanese players had 6-7 months access before non-Japanese players.  

A. Non-Japanese players could not make money in crafting since earlier crafters could craft better items with the same materials.  Non-Japanese players saw no hope in making money from crafting until after about 2 months of losing a LOT of money.

B. Japanese players had a thief sub-class exploit that allowed some classes to do 3-4x more damage than after the patch.  The exploit lasted all the way up to a month before North American release.  

C. Japanese players had less competition when they farmed their rare items.  

3. The servers were in Japan so NA players could not fight popular bosses when a Japanese player was present. 

The funny thing is that if you've played within the last year and a half or so, you'd realize that a lot of these problems plain just don't exist.  Level Sync made partying a breeze, dual classing and job switching fixed any sort of class balance because you could always switch characters.

 

Also...I hate to point this out...but the game is made by a Japanese company.  It kinda makes sense that the Japanese would get it before NA/EU.  Besides that point they're planning a global release for FFXIV

 

Talk about emotional scarring with WoW though.  I played the free trial, and after the trial period decided to cancel my account.  After trying to find the cancel button for an hour, we decided we would sue them if they didn't cancel the account.  Needless to say, they no longer require credit cards for the free trial.

 

Also....the fact that you are emotionally scarred from playing a video game...probably means you need to seek psychiatric help.

antilegit

i don't  care about the japanese getting the same earlier.  i care about them getting the game earlier then putting everybody else on the same servers.  

 

let me tell you, 6-7 months go a long way to give an unfair advantage.

this is especially evident in crafting. new players can't compete with older players when it comes to crafting.

reason 1. higher level crafters can make better items from the same resources, so a lower level crafter may lose money for purchasing the same materials where a higher level crafter would make money.

reason 2. higher level crafters can make items that everybody wants, say food that give 2-3x better stats than what the lower level crafters can make. this means lower level crafters have no market to sell to.

 

let's face it, squareenix treated non-japanese players like shit.  if you didn't feel wronged, you probably didn't know what they did. like how the effects of sneak and trick attacks were fully usable as a sub-class until it was released to the non-japanese.

benmou13

K bye then have fun playing wow because your obviously the most uninformed player ever cause every dumb thing you mentioned they have stated it wouldnt be in 14.

Alders

Originally posted by benmou13

K bye then have fun playing wow because your obviously the most uninformed player ever cause every dumb thing you mentioned they have stated it wouldnt be in 14.

 

Can we get over this "go play wow" nonsense once and for all please? There are other games and that mentality is far worse than someone stating how they feel. It's not clever and it's gotten old.

 

The only true issue i had with XI was the head start JP's had in a player run economy. The rest were all design choices and they were what they were.

 

Xzen

Originally posted by antilegit

i don't  care about the japanese getting the same earlier.  i care about them getting the game earlier then putting everybody else on the same servers.  

 

let me tell you, 6-7 months go a long way to give an unfair advantage.

this is especially evident in crafting. new players can't compete with older players when it comes to crafting.

reason 1. higher level crafters can make better items from the same resources, so a lower level crafter may lose money for purchasing the same materials where a higher level crafter would make money.

reason 2. higher level crafters can make items that everybody wants, say food that give 2-3x better stats than what the lower level crafters can make. this means lower level crafters have no market to sell to.

 

let's face it, squareenix treated non-japanese players like shit.  if you didn't feel wronged, you probably didn't know what they did. like how the effects of sneak and trick attacks were fully usable as a sub-class until it was released to the non-japanese.

 I used SaTa as a DRK/thf all the time. What are you talking about?

Xzen

Originally posted by Alders

Originally posted by benmou13

K bye then have fun playing wow because your obviously the most uninformed player ever cause every dumb thing you mentioned they have stated it wouldnt be in 14.

 

Can we get over this "go play wow" nonsense once and for all please? There are other games and that mentality is far worse than someone stating how they feel. It's not clever and it's gotten old.

 

The only true issue i had with XI was the head start JP's had in a player run economy. The rest were all design choices and they were what they were.

 

I also sold mats to the higher lvl players until my crafting was high enough. Then I competed with them and in some cases drove them out of the market. In-game Economy is a big problem that needs to be fixed in just about every mmo these days. In a lot of cases it's because crafted items are junk compared to dropped gear. If you want to make in-game money you have to sell things like arrows, food, and potions that people run out of.

sulthar

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Well ya, this is WHY IM NOT PLAYING A BLIZZARD PRODUCT AGAIN:

 

In 2004, the lag was horrible. The servers crashed and there were many maintenances. Lot of things didn't work. 

Thus, I no longer buy any Blizzard games. 2004 WoW gave me an emotional scar.

 Wow has nothing to do with this post ... man Wow hater are a plague...

OP IS SPEAKING ABOUT FINAL FANTASY 11

sulthar

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by antilegit

i don't  care about the japanese getting the same earlier.  i care about them getting the game earlier then putting everybody else on the same servers.  

 

let me tell you, 6-7 months go a long way to give an unfair advantage.

this is especially evident in crafting. new players can't compete with older players when it comes to crafting.

reason 1. higher level crafters can make better items from the same resources, so a lower level crafter may lose money for purchasing the same materials where a higher level crafter would make money.

reason 2. higher level crafters can make items that everybody wants, say food that give 2-3x better stats than what the lower level crafters can make. this means lower level crafters have no market to sell to.

 

let's face it, squareenix treated non-japanese players like shit.  if you didn't feel wronged, you probably didn't know what they did. like how the effects of sneak and trick attacks were fully usable as a sub-class until it was released to the non-japanese.

 I used SaTa as a DRK/thf all the time. What are you talking about?

 man your special ... quite unique in fact.