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Dungeon finder, long dungeons unpopular
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
Finding groups through the dungeon finder i have found many people complaining about not liking the longer dungeons...
-Blackfathom depths
- Wailing Caverns
-Gnomeregan
-Blackrock depths, Blackrock spire
-Razorfen
These are not only the longer Dungeons but also the places that require more then just marching straight on.
I think this is so typical for all those people that like quick rewards above a good fun fight.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
I must say I never had problems in random groups with either BFD or the razorfens, so I won't comment on them.
Gnomeregan and blackrock are unpopular most probably for the same reason, they are very confusing dungeons, especially black rock but also gnomeregan for its level. Nowaday, after running gnom countless times, I know the place inside out but it still one of the more annoying instances, especially because what you get for your effort is usually a lot of trash mobs and little bosses.
BRD just give me a giant headache everytime I go in, especially if, as often is the case, no one knows where to go or what to do. I wish they divided it better though as at the moment is a bit ridicolous with the first "half" being just one boss reachable from the entrance and the second "half" being the WHOLE run without any short cut (ala maraudon).
Don't get me wrong, they can be a lot of fun.... when done with friends or guildies. When done with random... most of the time you wish it would be over sooner :P
Forgot WC: It is a bit the same as Gnom, this is supposed to be the entry level dungeon for Horde (if we ignore RFC) on par with Deadmines ,but it is way more complex and LONG than deadmines. With 4 serpent lord to kill, then back to entrance, then wait for the tauren to walk around the place, then FINALLY to the giant murloc... I like the theme and flavor of Wailing Caverns, it is nice opposite of the barrens, but once you have done the final walk with the tauren 5 times ,you do not particularly want to do it again.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
This is a good example of the times, rather it be the change in the game community and real life.. People no longer want to spend any time working for anything.. Everything must be instant success and rewards.. It's implied by the mechanics and community that if you can't do ANY of the Lich King 5 mans in under 15 minutes, you're a loser.. I blame the community for this and Blizzard for fostering it..
Why should we WORK for our rewards? Imo, dungeons should be designed to be fun and give you some rewards along the way but mostly they should be fun.Not everybody has the time to run long dungeons like BRD. They should've split that dungeon into several wings like SM. I think I went through BRD only once and I've been to the place so many times.
You can also run through those dungeons and blow stuff up just as easily as any other dungeon. It just takes a lot of time killing trash mobs.
@Rydeson - The 15 minute thingie is because Blizzard forced raiders into running heroics for their emblems. Blizzard realised this and are changing it in Cata. It's just bad design on their part and not that much the community.
The majority of WoW players play to get the things they want as quickly and efficiently as they can, be it EXP, gold, items, or emblems.
If you want an experience outside of that look for certain guilds or make your own.
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Isn't that the reason we play games like this?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The only dungeon I have ever not wanted to participate in was The Oculus. I hate that dungeon, just because it isn't fun to me. It isn't the length, because it is quite short, its just the fact that the required flying around, and the flight combat just doesn't feel fun.
Exactly and unlike work , the way you "work" through things is fun . And people who like their job also like working , same goes for games , if you like the game why would you be concerned about needing to "work" in it ? Work =/= work .
As a stupid example , at college i have some courses i like a lot and studying those doesn't bother me at all , yet studying is a kind of work . If you ask me , anyone asking a game to become easier just doesn't like the game but wants to show off his shiny e-peen with shiny items he "earned" through easy content. *cough WOTLK heroics*
Personally i loved BRD , now i was lucky to have a nice group with who'm i had lots of laughs as well but the instance was epic and its magnitude was partly what gave it an epic feeling. I really felt like "raiding" , RP wise these kind of instances = win . But i guess players nowadays prefer instances like ToC 10/25 where you have boss after boss ....
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
When I retried WoW after the dungeon finder and other additions/changes, I would groan anytime random would pop up with Gnomeregan, that dungeon is horrible.
Yes it is long, but that's not even the issue really. It is a tedious drawn out dungeon. It isn't long because there's so much to do, it is long for the sake of being long and you just keep killing the same crap over and over as you slowly work through it. If there were more exciting and interesting parts of the dungeon then it wouldn't be as bad, plus it isn't uncommon to get a dungeon leader who gets lost in there. Didn't have an issue getting groupd for any of the other dungeons in that list, nor did I hate any of them. But Gnomeregan, whoever made that dungeon needs to never make dungeons again.
Meh , my problem with gnomeregan was the entire setting , i just didn't like the place and the mobs , those annoying robbots, brrrr. But than again, i'm someone who has never liked anything gnome-related in wow >>
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
In all fairness, its not just WOW, pretty much every MMORPG released these days is designed to feed this obession for efficiency and truth be told, there was some of it even back in the older games like DAOC. (just not quite as bad)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The path of least resistance is always preferred
I noticed I always have few leaving a group when we're assigned to Gnomeregan, Blackrock Depth or Oculus. Being a tank, I mostly don't mind and let DF fill the empty spots!
I've done full clear of those dungeons few times. Though I admit it may take a very long time with a less experienced tank/group.
beeeeep beeeep Intruder alert! intruder alert! Haha gnomer was fun back in classic. But then again all the dungeons were fun, long, and rewarding (most of the time).
But yeah as many people said already, wow pretty much hands gear to everyone on a big shiney golden plate these days, So I can kinda see why people dont want to run those huge dungeons anymore.
EXPLOSIONS... I NEED MORE EXPLOSIONS !!!
The main problem is there isnt a challenge to the instances. They are simply an obstacle in a long string of obstacles you must move through to get to your final goal.
I'll be showing my age here...but "Back in the day..." it wasnt about zoning in and clearing the dungeon, it was about entering the dungeon, buffing and hoping to god you could get past the entrance. I remember spending over a month in ONE dungeon on EQ and only seeing about 60% of it.
Dungeons were scary and something you faught through tooth and nail to get to a different camp or to finally get high enough to take on the boss that dropped the item you wanted. This made the dungeon a lot more interesting.
That being said...EQ was just a different kind of treadmill. In WoW its how many dungeons can I do in a row before I scream and want to kill myself. In EQ it was how long can I sit at this camp chain pulling mobs till I pass out.
WoW changed it up because in all honesty while the EQ method felt more like exploring, only a small percentage of the population actually did all of the content. I spent months in cazic thule and lower guk on EQ1 and I never saw the deeper areas there. In wow... I know every dungeon in that bloody game and hate them all now.
So yes...with wow people dont want to explore, they dont want to experience the content...cause we've already done it several hundred times. I want to get through it as fast as possible cause I already had fun with this and want to get to the parts that I havent had fun with yet.
In both games you do have more or less the same mentality, its just a different system so it encourages different play styles.
Honestly it probably has little with the need for rewards without the investment. WoW has had an established player base for quite some time. Do you know how many times some folks have run those dungeons? Some have ran them so much they could design them.
Plus another god awful truth...they are boring as freaking sin. They aren't challenging. They are just long. How is that working for your reward? I could understand if you were speaking of the encounters being more challenging but none of them are. They are just full of useless trash pulls over and over. Gnomie and BRD are two dungeons I know I fell asleep on before due to boredom. I can care less if something is short or long. Just make it enjoyable and challenging.
So I can't fault those who don't like to run such instances. Can't say its because its challenging because they just aren't. Just more trash to weed through and that doesn't make anything challenging. Plus darn Gnomie is so annoying with directions it makes you wish there was a gas station around to ask for directions.
The fact they're long adds a certain "this is an instance" feeling. And tbh i think BRD was one of the hardest vanilla instances, sure it wasnt omg-hard , but one of the hardest nonetheless. It is actually the only instance where i actually wiped with LFD ( if we dont count retarded wipes because the tank didnt want to let the healer regen mana or decided to pull half the instance for the lulz )
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
I've seen several comments about "WoW is an old game, players have seen its content quite few times"
While WoW has grown old to many, I've come accross a lot of new players. This is especially problematic when your party wipes in a dungeon and most of your group don't know where to get back to the dungeon entrance since... they've never been there! They're not necessarily 'noobs' as most of them will have an idea how to play. They just decide to follow the least resistance path to level up/get new gear.
/shrug Maybe so. But if Im doing my Daily on my lvl 80 Priest and I zone into Occulus...I'm zoning out. And btw most of the party does too!
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
Well the oculus post nerf is plainly annoying, it used to be my favorite instance in WOTLK because it was the only one where wiping was an existent risk. Now its just like the others: Wipeless Easiness designed for 8y old ppl to complete >>
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
This reminds me of the debate about 'death runs'. Is a game bad because they don't make you spend 2 hours running back to your corpse? Is a game bad because the boss fights don't require you to kill 40 pulls of the exact same 3 mobs first?
This is a game, I want to have fun. Dungeons like WC, Gnome and BRD just had way too much trash between exciting fights. Yes, sometimes trash can be fun.. but not when it is repetitive.
And again, this is a game. Did anyone actually do BRD at it's intended level? It would take about 5 hours for a complete clear, and if you didn't clear it in one day, you had to wait to find the same 4 players to try to finish it.
The challenge of a dungeon should be the abilities of the boss mobs, not staying awake through 40 packs of mobs, rr spending 5 hours trying to find a healer to finish the last two bosses of a dungeon because your group fell apart yesterday.
I like the wrath dungeons. Not because of the loot, but because you could do them all in under an hour, you never got bored with trash mobs, and the boss fights were innovative and challenging before you outgeared them.
If you don't have time to clear instances like BRD than sure i can understand you don't like it. But nowadays people use LFD to level and the question i asked myself: what's the difference between doing 1 4 hour instance and 4 1 hour instances? I mean , BRD isn't that repetitive and i think the real problem is that just like the oculus (used to) people whipe. And in WoW people can't tolerate to wipe .
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
BRD was cool back in the vanilla wow days. It had a real sense of epicness and story to it. It was one of the last instances you would use to gear up and start raiding. It is big because its supposed to be epic. It contains the entrance to that scary place MC.
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
Even before the dungeon finder long dungeons were unpopular. Took me hours on hours to find groups. It's easier now. The only issue with dungeon fighter (even though without it, it would be the same) is that people drop easier than usual since it's more taboo and a lot easier to find a group. I did SFK today with a druid alt of mine and 5 people dropped out within a 30 minute time frame. All of them were ninjas/noobs too (i think) so, yes, it was annoying, but...its still quicker to find a group so I don't hate it. There was a lot of controversy when LFG was first announced but, honestly, in my opinion....I prefer having it. Even though people might leave quicker it's still faster to find a group...and despite what people said at first...guilds are still around and needed.
Food for thought:
EVEN during Vanilla WOW, the most popular dungeon (not raid) was Scarlet Monastery and guess what? it used the popular Wings design making it both one of the better designed one and shorter of them all.. well each wing singularly is shorter than any other dungeon beside maybe rfc or stockade.
It is then no surprise that they used this design for most dungeons after Vanilla.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
They aren't popular because the attention span of the new Activision targeted demographic is much shorter.
Activision knows console games. They know multi-millions of kids play those. Why not target a huge mmo at that audience?
Cash in even more on an aging mmo.
For those of you who say I'm wrong: I'll point you to that moronic griefing toy that 12 year old's love. the mohawk grenade.
If they can't storm through a dungeon like they do in a solo console game...their adhd kicks in and they get bored.